Leaderboard

With the familiar disclaimer that I am not a lawyer, I will add that this set in particular is skirting a very fine line, if not crossing it. In the U.S. at least. It certainly shares a very strong resemblance to the Alien Chestburster, which as noted above was designed and created by the artist HR Giger for the movie, originally owned by 21st Century Fox I believe and now Disney. Copyrights for graphic characters (which this would fall under as a primarily visual character and recognisable by distinctive visual characteristics) are good for a minimum 50 years, if it is trademarked this can be renewed indefinitely (trademark and copyright are different yes, but share many of the same legal characteristics, as has been seen over the past 20 years). There are many ins and outs to copyright law, again I'm not a lawyer, but in my work copyrights, reproduction rights and licensing are something we deal with frequently. People like to use concrete terms when it comes to copyright but in the end it doesn't matter if you sell/use something as an "outer space bug" as opposed to "Alien Chestburster", or change a minor aspect of it's appearance, there is no guarantee that this is enough differentiation to avoid litigation. In the end it is up to a judge to determine if something is infringing on a copyright. In copyright law for visual designs and products this has to do with a combination of factors that are examined; appearance, context, character traits, and of course, precedence. I'm certainly no expert but based on my dealings I would highly recommend any retailer stay away from selling this product, especially with Disney as the new copyright holders. Its one thing for the Arvo bros to sell it on their own website, it's likely not worth the legal expense for Disney to pursue, but if a large organized company (for instance a company in a position to challenge LEGO's market position) is using this likeness to make money without permission (and maybe they do have permission for all I know) it is only a matter of time. And while a small outfit may get a cease and desist as a warning, a larger company likely would not, especially if the copyright holder thinks they are making any decent sum of money or are using the copyrighted material in a way the copyright holder does not approve of. And no, the offender would not get thrown in jail, but they could be charged a hefty sum and face other civil consequences depending on the circumstances. Its important to note the difference in selling instructions vs. sets the way most independent moc designers do, as this does change things and moves copyright into an even grayer area, here simply changing to a non trademarked name might be enough, it's a bit harder to say definitively. But when larger companies get involved with this it is very problematic, it's easy to say what's the big deal it's just big bad Disney but imagine if LEGO published an original design of a distinctive character by a moc designer, changed a few bricks and the name of the character with no credit to the designer then you begin to see why. Of course in fact this does happen all the time, unfortunately independent designers and artists frequently don't have the resources to take big companies to court, which in a perverse way is why it is all the more important for these large copyright holders to fight these things because they are often the only ones who can. In any event its certainly not ethical and likely not legal. Edit:.If you made it through that wall of text, congats lol.

Amazon box left out in the rain, looking incredibly soggy, expecting the worst.

Pretty quiet today....here's a little something.....https://shop-florida.legoland.com/collections/deal-of-the-week/products/lego®-ideas-central-perk-21319

Well, I guess you would...

In this topic: Ethics and lack thereof.

The Matrix - just give me a 2,500+ piece Nebuchadnezzar with the crew from the original movie and Agent Smith, and I'm happy with a one-off. Of course, more would be welcome. Star Trek - tons of ships and tons of minifigures. Perfect for Lego. Just not sure they'd ever do Star Trek and Star Wars at the same time GI Joe - again, tons of ships/vehicles and tons of minifigures. Just seems doubtful Hasbro would ever license this out to Lego MOTU - Mega Construx is killing it with some of their sets (hello, Castle Grayskull). I can only imagine what Lego would do with this line. TMNT - it's really pathetic that Mega Blox did such a superior job with this theme compared to Lego. Lego should take another swipe at this and go vintage all the way - focus only on the original comic and the 80's cartoon. Nothing beyond that. The Simpsons - I'd really like to see this come back. Just do one big set every year or two and sprinkle in some new minifigures in those sets. Off the top of my head - Android's Dungeon, Krusty Burger, Springfield Elementary Spaceballs - I'd be very happy with just Eagle 5 and a full compliment of minifigures Architecture - I want to see this get back to its roots, with a focus on actual architecture - not monuments/landmarks. Give me more FLW, and other styles of architecture that the line hasn't touched yet. Oh, and give me a 10,000+ piece Castle Neuschwanstein LOTR - I'd like to see this come back as a UCS line. Just give us massive castles, towers, buildings or battles The Muppets - I'd take one big Muppet Theater set, and a bunch of smaller sets for minifigures Bioshock - would love to see Rapture in Lego form National Lampoons Christmas Vacation - if we can have the Home Alone house, I want the Griswold's house...and an RV out front

I don't really want to get into a he said/she said internet argument, I prefer to stick to the part that is related to investing in LEGO. But I will say that this topic has sent me down a bit of a rabbit hole and from what I've seen Bluebrixx isn't exactly on the moral high-ground with accusations of them stealing designs from independent moc makers (or selling the stolen designs) without payment, or only paying after being discovered and then refusing to stop selling the designs when asked. Nothing is black and white, so its likely impossible to know exactly what has transpired here, but it all seems unnecessarily toxic if you ask me. Read for yourself here Having said all that I will just reiterate what I said before, in the U.S. copyright, trademark and fair use laws create a complex web that even the courts have difficulty navigating. So I question anyone who pretends to say anything about it with absolute authority on an internet forum unless they are a lawyer. Its true that some things cannot be copyrighted- i.e. the overall design of a car may not be copyrighted, but the name and logo of the car company can, the specific shape of a component on the car can, a transformer character based on that car can and an action figure of that transformer can be protected under trademark. Something does not have to look exactly like something else to infringe on copyright or trademarks either, see Superman vs. Wonderman. It may be true that LEGO is losing sales, but a real change won't happen until you see these alternative brands (or more realistically, one good strong alternative brand) being sold in national or multinational retail outlets, which given the legal implications in this example, and lack of market share for Mega Blocks/Mega Constructs, COBI, Oxford, et al, I don't think is likely. Even then brand loyalty would probably buoy LEGO for a few years as the frontrunner in this niche of the toy market. Don't forget that LEGO is still primarily a children's toy, even if AFOLs, or AFOBs have become a larger segment of the market. Kids don't care if one model of a Ferrari has stickers or not (in fact some kids love the sticker aspect) or has gaps, or a functioning gearshift, they care if they can get it for Christmas. The things that the LEGO group has to offer, and many alternative brands struggle with matter to the experience a child has with a toy.

Stretching the definition of the word 'today', but I've finished building a nice job lot I acquired a while ago. Paid £60 for it on eBay, with unhelpful photos and little idea of what was included (but I could just about make out some stickers from 7676 so took the plunge). I've had to spend probably another £150 Bricklinking various missing bits (in no small part made up of the minifigs from 4767) but I estimate that the value is probably ~ £1000 - £1100. I'll be keeping 4767 but selling the rest.

Thank you Master... I have much to learn

Which just tells me one thing: it's all about the money. Which is completely obvious, and you're not making any incorrect statements. I'm not surprised at all by your news. I'm sure Modbrix was holding out for a nice payday, and they got it. Which is also the point about this thread, imo. Bashing LEGO because they're trying to maximize profit is just silly. That's every company's goal. How many years did we sit here and wonder why LEGO didn't go after the Chinese brands. And then finally did. Because it was finally more cost effective to go after them, and put a stop to it. It was eating too much into their profit. And they wanted to expand into China. Summed up nicely. Even if it's perfectly legal, the deeper pockets can bankrupt someone until they can't defend themselves anymore. And this isn't new. Just look at DC Comics vs Fawcett Comics, from the 1940s and 1950s. Captain Marvel (Shazam) far outsold Superman in the 40s. But DC Comics sued and sued and sued Fawcett claiming that Captain Marvel was a direct ripoff of Superman. When the case was finally settled 10 years later, Fawcett was out of money, and closed up shop.

Your assessment about copyright laws in Germany (EU) being similar or same as USA while in functionality might be true, they are completely different laws. Otherwise, Europe would be seeing Razor Crest LEGO sets just like we are in the USA. I can tell you that the images I saw on the Bluebrixx website would not fly in the USA. And even if Bluebrixx could win the court case (unlikely in USA), USA corporations would make sure to destroy Bluebrixx in litigation and bankrupt them before allowing them to use anything that resembles their property without proper licensing. (Keep in mind, we're not talking about just one corporation but multiple). BTW, you're assumption that because a company has been doing something therefore they are legit, is presumptuous. A toy company can avoid attention until they can't. Example: Modbrix. How many of us had ever heard of this company before someone there copyrighted the name "Razor Crest" or better put, Disney / Lucasfilm tried to do the right thing and found someone else had beat them to it? I believe this is how Bluebrixx has been avoiding attention, they aren't using the names, just images. But in some cases (new sets) they are using the name, so how long until they are in the news? Modbrix had copyrighted the name and image of the Razor Crest 30 days before Disney filed paperwork to do the same. Now, I'm reading that Modbrix produced the brick set without the original designer's permission, nor was the original designer receiving any compensation from the sale of said brick set. They apparently rectified this after the fact, but that should never have happened. This is the same kind of junk the Chinese knock-off brick companies pull and not just with LEGO, but with rebrickable and LEGO ideas designers as well. This is not cool on multiple levels. Update: As of last Friday, Lucasfilm now officially owns the "Razor Crest" name in Europe and Modbrix is no longer selling their Razor Crest brick set. https://www.stonewars.de/news/razor-crest-wortmarke-deutschland/

if you know what it is just by looking at it...it's infringing somewhere leave it to the lawyers to add the details, but it's really as simple as that, imo.

Cleaned up the thread. If you want to talk about the brick situation in Germany, please go to this thread instead:

just about anyone can post a vid on youtube ...and you seem passionate about your stance on this. Maybe consider actually doing a vid. All you need is a phone to record your vid. My take in reading your post is that you discredited yourself a bit by suggesting that some of these other brands quality were pretty close to LEGO. It's my personal experience that they are not...but ofcourse my perceptions are relative to what I think is important quality metrics. Without getting into the merits of individual sets...an objective test of the same build using the different brick sources would be a decent baseline. Appearance test, hold test, durability (might be more challenging to show), etc. There's also the concerns with the manufacturing processes...many here were shocked to see pics of the China warehouse that was raided a couple years ago; those were some really dirty conditions (and we all know how many LEGO end up in the mouths of young children). Not saying those are representative of say Cobi, but there's definitely the perception of guilt by association...until you remove ALL bogus offerings...there's exist links to the "dark side" of imitators.

You should post something that shows the quality comparison. I'm being serious with this comment. Because I'm sure I'm not the only one who at one point bought a MegaBloks set that ended up intermixing with my Lego, and over time have removed all of those bricks from my collection. Also, the brilliant thing about Lego, is if they don't produce a set or building you want, you literally have the ability to BUILD the item you like. It is a very unrestrictive creative tool. So the idea that Lego will never produce certain sets, isn't a big deal.

That Bluebrixx has done videos does not make it legal nor prove anything. Quite frankly, all it takes is the right (or wrong) person to see the image and report it to the company who owns the image and it's lights out. Example. A friend of mine is an excellent artist. About fifteen years ago he worked for a Christian organization that produced Gospel tracts. He hand drew a likeness of Curious George. He did not trace the monkey, he did not even look at a drawing when he drew it. It was clearly a hand drawn image of a monkey. At first glance, you would totally think it was Curious George. The company who owns the rights to Curious George found out about the Gospel tract. About nine months after they initially used the Gospel tract (in dozens of cities throughout the USA with tens-of-thousands having been handed out) they received a cease and desist order from the lawyers representing the company owning the rights to Curious George. The charge was copyright infringement. My friend's organization fought against the charge since the company did not own the rights to all monkeys and it was proven that there was no mimicking of the Curious George image either. However, there was enough similarities between the images that the company continually perused it. In the end, my friend's organization agreed to destroy all copies of the Gospel tract because it was just too expensive to fight it in court. So Bluebrixx is getting away with it... for now. But by all means keep promoting them and I'm sure someone in the USA who cares will take notice.

My wife co-opted our daughter’s FRIENDS set and built that last week. Fun set!

It's nice to know that Disney, being the massive international operation that it is, has it's own email for copyright infringement: [email protected].

re: Bluebrixx - lots of nice looking stuff. However, I noticed that although they do not always use the name they will use the likeness of many well known copyrighted items and give them generic names. I.E. Starsky and Hutch Gran Torino (called - 1974 Sedan Coupe), USS Nimitz (labeled as Aircraft Carrier and includes CVN-68 in the name), Ford Mustang (called - Green US Muscle car), Battlestar Galactica (the Galactica but it is called "Mothership", Viper (uses actual name), Centurion fighter (uses actual name) and Basestar (called - Centurion Spacestation). I would love to know if they have licenses for those products. But if they did, then why not call them by name? And with the Nimitz set, it is very specifically named. So sets on the site are inconsistent, which does not give me a lot of confidence to buy from them. When LEGO puts out a product, you can trust that it is licensed because it uses the actual name and not something generic. This is one of the reasons LEGO is more expensive.

I've been loosely following this thread and it seems to be getting quite heated at times. So I ended up doing some digging and found an interesting article that may shed some light for those of us in the USA. After reading the article, I went back a reread everything in this thread and in the beginning of the thread the top YouTube brick personality Held der Steine was mentioned and then it went into many tangents. The article below suggests that this LEGO vs German brick fight began with him. The article: https://www.stonewars.de/news/lego-vs-held-der-steine/ The above article said that there doesn't appear to be any problem until Held der Steine tried to apply for his own EU trademark which included a depiction of a 2x2 LEGO brick. While LEGO no longer owns the copywrite on the LEGO brick, the image clearly looks like a LEGO brick. My first thought is, this is typical of any USA company when someone uses a likeness they determine to be like theirs. They will sue and put someone out of business rather than allow someone to use anything that looks like their likeness. In Held der Steine's case, apparently he was offended that LEGO sent him a letter telling him to not use the image. This is pretty standard practice for a company (any company) to do. I'm not saying it is good or right, but I could totally see this happening in the USA. In fact, that first contact letter would normally be a registered letter, which could then be used as evidence in any necessary legal proceedings. Whether the guy is guilty or not, it appears that he did change the image for his copywrite logo and then went on a tear against LEGO with many people taking Held der Steine's side in the case. The article could be biased but it feels like this guy is pissed at LEGO and is taking it out on them.

BlueBrixx is committing blatant trademark infringement and isn't going to last with the xeno chestbuster and "Alien Robot". They've taken down the "classic ambulance" from the SF category which was a clone of Ecto-1 . . . I don't think you can argue that a repurposed hearse with ghost hunting equipment is a classic NYC ambulance.

So if its not protected, why don't they call the product Alien Xenomorph and slap it on the box ?

if the coliseum is any indication...this hypothetical line would be Visibly appealing but terrible set to build.

Let’s please keep the discussion to the Blacksmith. Any more discussion about the German stuff should be in to the German thread. I don’t have time to deal with this right now, so if we continue off topic I’ll just lock the thread.

Why do you not understand that you are preaching to the wrong congregation? If I were just a fan of Lego and building block sets in general then I may very well welcome competition to the market to drive down prices. But, I and most others here I assume, are not just fans. We buy and sell for profit. If there was more competition in the market here in the US and prices dropped, then it would decrease our profits as well and basically kill Lego as a investment. No one here wants that. So no one here is going to be very receptive of your position... learn to read the audience.

To be fair, Held der Steine was purposely trying to harm the LEGO brand in dozens, if not hundreds of videos. Many arguments he made were valid, while others made him look like a total hypocrite. I watched him a lot & in the end I realized he's a man in search of profit, nothing else. Forget the 'morals' he's trying to 'defend'. He is a seller in the end & said he'd rather make a 1000€ selling 2000€ of merchandise rather than making 10% on LEGO's products, sells mugs for 15 or 20€ a piece & cooperates with Amazon, Huawei and other angelic companies. Yeah, right, morals. Unfortunately the majority of his viewers/fanboys blindly accept his perceptions of the world & defend him no matter what. It's ironic, he always brings up LEGO fanboys, when he has the biggest fanboy community on YouTube Germany. Reminds me of a sect. The comments are a display of pure hate on TLG while everyone knows these guys are the ones buying an exclusive on day one. Also he seems to forget what grew his channel, I don't think Cada or Cobi did. He presented LEGO products & he continues to do so. If he wouldn't he'd lose the majority of his subs. Classic hypocrite.

The thing I wanted to prove is, that there is no ground for your claim that alternative brands gain market share in germany. That might be true for AFOLs who think their demands have not be met by LEGO and now buy sets from other companies who offer that kind of sets. The problem with your assumption is that there is no data available to backup your claim. Only because you post some videos of youtubers, that doesnt mean that the viewers actually buy the sets, of course to a certain extent yes that will happen. Why is that "of course"? If you know Amazon your know that 100 BSR mean a lot of volume. For the other thing, Lego is mainly a children toy, which is bought by parents who couldnt care less about other brick companys. If they would be price sensitive they certainly wouldnt buy and EOL sets for 2-6 times RRP. I just would be interested what is your motive about that warfare against Lego is.

I'm all for some competition for Lego, but seeing some of the "original" sets on the website are cringeworthy. Legal or not, some of them are blatant copies from Lego. Others are just terrible. Also, those minifigures in the sets might be the worst part about them. I'll stick with my overpriced plastic.

Some have a disdain for legal loopholes protecting or not protecting IP...the "legal" arguments don't sway this opinion. I'm in this boat. And it's not all black and white: If you copy, you are wrong (to some extent). No, i didn't let other cheat off my tests in school...altho I did let some "cool kids" copy my homework a few times.

Are there any other sites to manage my lego investments? The spreadsheets are big and I have to update the prices to often

Oh, and I forgot one. A Stadium Series. Wrigley Field? Yes Please.

In a free market society such as yours, the market usually decides the winner. Many name brand items have generic knock-offs of the same quality, yet people pick the known brand, even if it's more expensive. If the people of Germany are truly angry (lots of anger if they are pissed off about plastic blocks), they will make another of these brands the favorite, forcing Lego to evolve, leave the market, or forfeit their market share. As far as "If it's sold in the US, it's legal", is somewhat true. You aren't going to jail for it, but you can also be sued into oblivion. If you go to USPTO website, you can see exactly how much stuff is trademarked. This includes Logos and words. It's pretty extensive.

There is just so much anger in your posts. Hard to comprehend. And yes I can see 12 year old children laughing at each other because mum bought a set from amazon instead of getting a CaDa model. Hilarious!

Yes I have been shoplifting for two years and wasnt caught so far, so shoplifting is legal in the US of course. I researched it and its true, but this part of ruling is just for a special type, you cannot generalize it. Just no. and now I am out here, as rightfully said here is the wrong audiance for it.

There might be some copyright violations but one set you may never get from lego is the Yihong Brothel from Xingbao. 😄 I do think the traditional chinese architecture is done quite nicely though.

I think this gets at my point about why if I order one from Xingbao site shipped to UK, they won't send me the product box, even though it's shown on the site. If customs open it, it will just look like loose bagged bricks and instructions. This is certainly what Xingbao parent LEPlN bricks was doing when they were selling their Star Plan (Star Wars) knock-offs

They will just look at if the package was delivered to the correct address. You hear people taking pictures and recording video. Ebay most likely won't even look at those, waste of time.

Amazon has gotten so bold with selling returns as new, selling sticker-laden FBA stock as sold by Amazon, shipping bare boxes, bubble mailers, packed with a six-pound bottle of liquid laundry detergent, etc... that it has become the exception to get a box in good condition. I’ve been directing more and more of my business to Walmart when the option exists. They are not perfect—they will send small sets in garment bags from time to time as well—but at least it left walmart in good condition versus Amazon packing up damaged goods or in a way that no reasonable person would expect it to make it to its destination in a usable state.

I'll just have to shrug. I get that in Germany you can't sell copyright-infringing sets. And maybe there's no licensing issue? I just don't know. Again, I'm shrugging. I just don't get how BlueBrixx can be making toys using a property without licensing the IP from the IP holder. I don't see that happening in the US.

Interesting. The chamber of secrets looks to be the main focus on this set, moulded basilisk sounds cool with extra some new figures. I wonder how many people are dumping there great halls right now. It could be one of the worst afterlife performers of the whole theme.

I haven't heard that rumor, but that's interesting to consider. Last year we got the 3-in-1 Pirate Ship. I would accept a year rotation of the classic themes as 3-in-1s as a good enough bone to throw at old time AFOLs. As for this set, it continues to grow on me. I really like the look of it, and I think I'll be picking this up. Could fit into a Winter Village, with the right changes.

As a MOC fan I was a bit disappointed when they announced this set, but the more I see of this set the more I like it as an afol. I'm really interested in getting it to build along with my kid. It would be great fun for the two of us, and hey, maybe it will help get the next generation interested in the theme 😁 I saw a moc that would go great with this, an updated version of the classic Armor shop If there is truly a 3-in-1 castle set coming this summer that would be a day 1 for me. The various castle themes are the most nostalgia grabbing of all and I like the quality of the updates.

Why is there a bogus bricks employee posting here? Unfortunately I have to see his drivel when you guys quote him as I blocked him ages ago with probably similar incompetence. Go peddle your crap in the dark corner where it is allowed. Your pointy cap will be waiting for you.

5% EBay Bucks, for the chosen

I checked the BlueBrixx website. Apparently their manufacturing partner is Xingbao, the sister to the illegal brand starting with an L. Xingbao, also known to steal designs from AFOLS after pictures of their MOCs posted online. And for their inferior brick quality. Thank you for showing alternative options, but I prefer to stick with the A brand named LEGO.

....Well this thread got serious. Time for another classic.

I was reading this article you posted: https://www.wuv.de/marketing/lego_legt_sich_wieder_mit_dem_held_der_steine_an and now I get a better idea what it's about. For people not able to read German, the issue here is that "Held der Steine" in his videos is using the word "LEGO" to describe all interlocking bricks from different brands. Like how in the UK the brand "Hoover" is synonymous with vacuum cleaners. So, using the LEGO brand name as a generic product description. And TLG is taking offense with that, being adamant that the word LEGO can only be used to name actual LEGO brand bricks. And apparently Germans are siding with Held der Steine, against TLG.

I would like to see a fishing theme. Not somesome boring fly fishing crap! I mean a trawler or crab boat. I spent my youth building trawlers (grew up in a fishing village), some of the older boats from the 60s and 70s are very aestically pleasing. The modern trawlers are a marvel of engineering! I can imagine the power functions for the winches, derricks and netdrums! Lego could do deadliest catch, I'm sure it would have a good following in the American market. Maybe a UCS northwestern?

I wouldn't rule out a Wizard of Oz theme as IDEAS serves as a demand indicator for LEGO. The license was already pretty sure under way back then (development of these games is at least 2 years from scratch). The IDEAS project was fated to be rejected since it would require a substantial amount of new moulds, however a small theme (like Pirates) is not completely out of question in my opinion.