LEGO Bans - Open Discussion

[TheBrickClique]

As for operating with a single account to stay within the vendor’s technically-enforced limits, I believe this is the current state of things.
 

Cliff notes: you’ll be fine as long as you don’t go on a spending spree at Target.com, and try not to bring attention to your buying patterns by dealing with online customer service for small gripes that can be dealt with in store instead.

Target - the easiest place to get banned based simply on purchase volume online and the most aggressive against resellers in store — employees trained to identify resellers loading up carts for example.  Can still use red card in store after online ban, but using with a new email account will result in repeat ban — start receiving auto cancellations and email about possible issues including payment purchase method.  Some people have bans lifted after a period in timeout. Others indefinitely. The amount of purchases that may identify you as a reseller and get a ban? One data point: I have been unable to purchase online going on 18 months now after two months of $5k purchases on the red card. Same red card still works fine in store.
 

LEGO shop at home — with the purchase limits mechanics implemented a few years ago, it is much more difficult to get the SAH ban hammer. If you exceed a limit on any item based on past purchases of the same item, they will cancel your entire order. Be warned that if they cancel an order with a VIP Rewards purchase, the reward is not automatically credited back to your account. Also, if they cancel an item due to inventory issues, the system still tracks it as qty purchased. Qty purchased in brick and mortar stores that are purchased with VIP accounts are not counted towards SAH limits and and limits in store are done at the individual store’s discretion. If you do have to call customer service to resolve an issue, they do have easy visibility to all of your previous orders and will make comments about you “really liking LEGOs”.  No indication that that is how the ban process starts, but unless you really have an issue that needs CS, might be best to just let the small things go. 
 

Amazon — shop away. Their limits are tracked to the second on a 168-hour FIFO.  Limits apply and are tracked in that window only to items sold and shipped by Amazon.com. Buy as many third party items as you wish. Anecdotal stories of bans for excessive returns, but no clear information on the metrics used. Generally, probably best to save the returns for the really bad boxes.  Creating multiple accounts will get noticed and is the quickest way to get the warning shot emails. 
 

Barnes and Noble — similar to LEGO, has a five qty per item lifetime limit online. Exceed that amount and just that item will be cancelled from the order. No reports of bans. In store purchases do not appear to be tied to online memberships as far as adding to your 5-count quantity.  
 

Walmart — most LEGO are limited to two per order, but they won’t say how often that limit is reset.  Doing a couple of multiple limit orders in the same day has worked.  Doing dozens has resulted in order cancellations of those specific items but no bans that I am aware of. Generally, I have found one limit order per day has never resulted in a cancellation. 
 

ShopDisney — some items have limits but they are selectively enforced. If you put in multiple limit orders at the same time, they might cancel those items. If you space them out, they will be fine. I ordered a dozen castles (limit one per customer) last year and they all went through. Sometimes two in two consecutive days. 
 

Costco — has item limits on some items, but I haven’t seen any on LEGOs. Even with items with limits, possible to space them out without issue.  In store limits are usually “per day”. 
 

Best Buy — unsure on LEGO as I’ve never pushed the limits on them. In the past, I would make 50 purchases at a time of 2-dollar items that had limits and they would all go through.  I have tried to make multiple purchases of Xbox consoles and those were cancelled.  So YMMV. But no reports of bans.

Anyways, those are my observations.

[cladner]

7 minutes ago, Bricklectic said:

Didn't help. I'm back to having all my orders cancelled again.  But a few did sneak through today. I made about 8 today and 6 were cancelled.

i was banned from online purchases walmart for almost a year - November 2018 through September 2019.  that was back when you could order large quantities not just max 2.  the final straw was 100x order of some $5.99 juniors set.  after that all LEGO orders were cancelled.  i finally just gave up and then tried again when the holiday sales roll around.  you will get banned if you exceed their order limits unless you have jedi retail powers or are a big time player with some kind of old school account.  i was also banned by barnes and noble during the same stretch after the very lucrative "honey code" sale for going over board.

at this point, every time you place another order you are probably resetting your account reinstatement clock. i would stop trying to order from walmart - you clearly have pi$$ed them off by placing multiple orders to try and get around their limits.  and you won't get your reset counter started until you give it a break.  others will say they are able to order tons and multiples but these people have jedi retail powers.

there is no one to call.  they don't owe you an explanation.   no one at walmart will admit to you being banned.

the way to successfully avoid being banned by walmart after being reinstated is to not exceed the order quantity limits by placing multiples per day.  i have had no issue ordering 2 sets of the same set day after day after day but if you go crazy and order multple orders of multiples in a short period of time you will be banned.

target at this point is the one retailer i am able to order large quantities of muliples of in a reasonable amount of time frame but back to back to back orders again are discourage.  if you must order multiples, do yourself a favor and use a stopwatch - say at 12 - 15 minute intervals between orders.

 

[Bricklectic]

2 minutes ago, cladner said:

i was banned from online purchases walmart for almost a year - November 2018 through September 2019.  that was back when you could order large quantities not just max 2.  the final straw was 100x order of some $5.99 juniors set.  after that all LEGO orders were cancelled.  i finally just gave up and then tried again when the holiday sales roll around.  you will get banned if you exceed their order limits unless you have jedi retail powers or are a big time player with some kind of old school account.  i was also banned by barnes and noble during the same stretch after the very lucrative "honey code" sale for going over board.

at this point, every time you place another order you are probably resetting your account reinstatement clock. i would stop trying to order from walmart - you clearly have pi$$ed them off by placing multiple orders to try and get around their limits.  and you won't get your reset counter started until you give it a break.  others will say they are able to order tons and multiples but these people have jedi retail powers.

there is no one to call.  they don't owe you an explanation.   no one at walmart will admit to you being banned.

the way to successfully avoid being banned by walmart after being reinstated is to not exceed the order quantity limits by placing multiples per day.  i have had no issue ordering 2 sets of the same set day after day after day but if you go crazy and order multple orders of multiples in a short period of time you will be banned.

target at this point is the one retailer i am able to order large quantities of muliples of in a reasonable amount of time frame but back to back to back orders again are discourage.  if you must order multiples, do yourself a favor and use a stopwatch - say at 12 - 15 minute intervals between orders.

 

Great info thanks for sharing your experience. What timeframe would you recommend - a week or more like a month or 2?

[redcell]

8 hours ago, Bricklectic said:

Didn't help. I'm back to having all my orders cancelled again.  But a few did sneak through today. I made about 8 today and 6 were cancelled.

That's always worth a shot.  Sounds like you got on the same type of ban list they had last year before the quantity limits went into effect.  You could always sneak a few orders through back then, but would be a much bigger PIA if each order only got you 2 copies of a set versus 100.

[redcell]

8 hours ago, cladner said:

i was banned from online purchases walmart for almost a year - November 2018 through September 2019.  that was back when you could order large quantities not just max 2.  the final straw was 100x order of some $5.99 juniors set.  after that all LEGO orders were cancelled.  i finally just gave up and then tried again when the holiday sales roll around.  you will get banned if you exceed their order limits unless you have jedi retail powers or are a big time player with some kind of old school account.  i was also banned by barnes and noble during the same stretch after the very lucrative "honey code" sale for going over board.

at this point, every time you place another order you are probably resetting your account reinstatement clock. i would stop trying to order from walmart - you clearly have pi$$ed them off by placing multiple orders to try and get around their limits.  and you won't get your reset counter started until you give it a break.  others will say they are able to order tons and multiples but these people have jedi retail powers.

there is no one to call.  they don't owe you an explanation.   no one at walmart will admit to you being banned.

the way to successfully avoid being banned by walmart after being reinstated is to not exceed the order quantity limits by placing multiples per day.  i have had no issue ordering 2 sets of the same set day after day after day but if you go crazy and order multple orders of multiples in a short period of time you will be banned.

target at this point is the one retailer i am able to order large quantities of muliples of in a reasonable amount of time frame but back to back to back orders again are discourage.  if you must order multiples, do yourself a favor and use a stopwatch - say at 12 - 15 minute intervals between orders.

 

I had the same ban from WM from 2018 to 2019.  I was able to get a few orders through here and there during that time, but it was really inconsistent and I definitely missed out on some great deals.  I haven't had an issue with multiple orders back to back since the quantity limits went in last year, but never really pushed it until last week and haven't had any orders cancelled yet.

However, it is pretty clear (to me at least) that sourcing Lego through online retail is not likely to be a viable strategy over the long term if you're operating at any appreciable level of scale.  If it weren't for Amazon intermittently loosening their quantity limits last year, I would probably have half as much inventory to sell this year.  Even some of the secondary online retailers are starting to wise up and impose quantity limits.  Between quantity limits, buying bans, and retailers going out of business, it's becoming a heck of a lot harder to operate at scale.  I'm usually not one to fall for the "sky is falling" perspective, but, in this instance, I do believe that the days of sourcing large amounts of Lego through online retail are winding down (at least for now).  Smaller scale operations don't have as much to worry about, but larger sellers will have to find alternate sources to tap into if they want to keep the gravy train rolling. 

[Bricklectic]

3 hours ago, redcell said:

I had the same ban from WM from 2018 to 2019.  I was able to get a few orders through here and there during that time, but it was really inconsistent and I definitely missed out on some great deals.  I haven't had an issue with multiple orders back to back since the quantity limits went in last year, but never really pushed it until last week and haven't had any orders cancelled yet.

However, it is pretty clear (to me at least) that sourcing Lego through online retail is not likely to be a viable strategy over the long term if you're operating at any appreciable level of scale.  If it weren't for Amazon intermittently loosening their quantity limits last year, I would probably have half as much inventory to sell this year.  Even some of the secondary online retailers are starting to wise up and impose quantity limits.  Between quantity limits, buying bans, and retailers going out of business, it's becoming a heck of a lot harder to operate at scale.  I'm usually not one to fall for the "sky is falling" perspective, but, in this instance, I do believe that the days of sourcing large amounts of Lego through online retail are winding down (at least for now).  Smaller scale operations don't have as much to worry about, but larger sellers will have to find alternate sources to tap into if they want to keep the gravy train rolling. 

Hows Walmart with family accounts. Will using a spouse with same address but different cc help or is the address itself banned.

Should be simple enough to bypass with a family members account

[joneyyy1981]

banned, cant log in, cant use vip points, iv never exceeded any limits. spoke on the phone confirmed not allowed to buy direct. no idea why

[Groovejet]

35 minutes ago, joneyyy1981 said:

banned, cant log in, cant use vip points, iv never exceeded any limits. spoke on the phone confirmed not allowed to buy direct. no idea why

From LEGO LEGO Shop at Home? Happened today with no catalyst? Making me scared to try logging in...

[Bricklectic]

40 minutes ago, joneyyy1981 said:

banned, cant log in, cant use vip points, iv never exceeded any limits. spoke on the phone confirmed not allowed to buy direct. no idea why

give us some more info.

when was your last order. 

what were your recent buying patterns at lego this month/last month

[gmpirate]

37 minutes ago, joneyyy1981 said:

banned, cant log in, cant use vip points, iv never exceeded any limits. spoke on the phone confirmed not allowed to buy direct. no idea why

We're you buying a lot at time?  Meaning if the limit was 50, were you buying 50?

Seems to me its pretty difficult to get banned anymore considering the limits.  In the past I purchased a lot (mixed orders) for the gwp's mostly but nowadays I do not buy much.

[joneyyy1981]

1 minute ago, gmpirate said:

We're you buying a lot at time?  Meaning if the limit was 50, were you buying 50?

Seems to me its pretty difficult to get banned anymore considering the limits.  In the past I purchased a lot (mixed orders) for the gwp's mostly but nowadays I do not buy much.

more like, 2s and 5's at a time.

[gmpirate]

Well, I imagine if you detailed your purchases here we could see red flags but multiple orders of 5's sounds like one.  I've never heard of anyone getting banned for ordering like a normal consumer -- or at least their individual orders.  Would be nice if they could be more straight forward like Amazon and have understandable limits but alas they don't.

[Bricklectic]

Just now, gmpirate said:

Well, I imagine if you detailed your purchases here we could see red flags but multiple orders of 5's sounds like one.  I've never heard of anyone getting banned for ordering like a normal consumer -- or at least their individual orders.  Would be nice if they could be more straight forward like Amazon and have understandable limits but alas they don't.

i sometimes order multiple of 1 or 2 when it comes to gwp's.

I wonder if i should stop doing that.

That would be a shame as it's of my favorite strategies.

[gmpirate]

1 hour ago, Bricklectic said:

i sometimes order multiple of 1 or 2 when it comes to gwp's.

I wonder if i should stop doing that.

That would be a shame as it's of my favorite strategies.

I order 2's a lot of smaller items like Brickheadz and $10 Mario stuff.  Ordering 2x Star Destroyers might cause someone to look at your history, idk.

[Bricklectic]

6 minutes ago, gmpirate said:

I order 2's a lot of smaller items like Brickheadz and $10 Mario stuff.  Ordering 2x Star Destroyers might cause someone to look at your history, idk.

its dumb cuz why do they let you order 2 then.

i guess what theyre saying is, we understand if you have a one off obsession with a couple of items, but buying multiples of a lot of the high price sets tells us youre a reseller.

[cladner]

i have had the same vip account since 2008.  with the way things have been going for last few years, i order up to the max without any issues.  i have ordered 20x Las Vegas and 20x London   in a single order in april b4 limits were cut down when there was a double vip no problem.  split up other orders to stay within limits.  during the holidays i go ape$hit.  each year i buy more because the shop at home promos paired with the actual knowledge of what is retiring is really maximizing your cagr with the last minute topping off.  i obtained 18x of the xmas tree promos last year.  i'm sure there are bp'er who got many more than that.   when you factor in the performance of the recent winning gwp, you may end up getting your shop at home purchase for 70-80% off maybe more if youre patient.   i would say the main thing to do is not order so many in rapid succession that it triggers some type of fraud alert either from shop at home or your credit card.  use a timer on your phone to pace yourself in 15-20 minute intervals.  alternate between a credit card and paypal.  its much harder to get banned then it used to be.  you think shop at home banned anyone for buying too many ship in a bottle or saturn v?  lol.  no it was here have another. and another and another.  in my experience the only time the limits reset is when shop at home changes the limits.  so when i ordered limit 20 vegas, i tried to do 5 more, cancelled.  then they cut it down to limit 3 and i was able to get 3 more in.

Edited November 2, 2020 by cladner

[ichiroll]

26 minutes ago, cladner said:

i have had the same vip account since 2008.  with the way things have been going for last few years, i order up to the max without any issues.  i have ordered 20x Las Vegas and 20x London   in a single order in april b4 limits were cut down when there was a double vip no problem.  split up other orders to stay within limits.  during the holidays i go ape$hit.  each year i buy more because the shop at home promos paired with the actual knowledge of what is retiring is really maximizing your cagr with the last minute topping off.  i obtained 18x of the xmas tree promos last year.  i'm sure there are bp'er who got many more than that.   when you factor in the performance of the recent winning gwp, you may end up getting your shop at home purchase for 70-80% off maybe more if youre patient.   i would say the main thing to do is not order so many in rapid succession that it triggers some type of fraud alert either from shop at home or your credit card.  use a timer on your phone to pace yourself in 15-20 minute intervals.  alternate between a credit card and paypal.  its much harder to get banned then it used to be.  you think shop at home banned anyone for buying too many ship in a bottle or saturn v?  lol.  no it was here have another. and another and another.  in my experience the only time the limits reset is when shop at home changes the limits.  so when i ordered limit 20 vegas, i tried to do 5 more, cancelled.  then they cut it down to limit 3 and i was able to get 3 more in.

thanks, really helpful information especially regarding limits resetting only when the Shop at Home limit changes.

[gmpirate]

54 minutes ago, ichiroll said:

thanks, really helpful information especially regarding limits resetting only when the Shop at Home limit changes.

Yep, guess I need to make yet another spreadsheet.  This time taking note of current limits so I know when I can order again.

Of course, it could change twice and you not notice 😐

Edited November 2, 2020 by gmpirate

[landphieran]

16 minutes ago, Fcbarcelona101 said:

Some of the OOS 40% Target sets keep popping on and then off for short periods of time. Donut Shop was up with about a dozen available around 15-20 minutes ago. Keep an eye out if you missed out on any.

As target start banning accounts, cancelling orders, and maxed credit cards decline I'd image they pop in and out for a few days.

[rreee]

52 minutes ago, landphieran said:

As target start banning accounts, cancelling orders, and maxed credit cards decline I'd image they pop in and out for a few days.

anyone got account banned from target due to yesterday's crazyness

[FM]

20 minutes ago, landphieran said:

As target start banning accounts, cancelling orders, and maxed credit cards decline I'd image they pop in and out for a few days.

I had a few of my orders cancelled that just released some Mia's House and Amusement Parks back into the wild.

[Bold-Arrow]

5 hours ago, rreee said:

anyone got account banned from target due to yesterday's crazyness

u called ?

[Bold-Arrow]

4 hours ago, FM said:

I had a few of my orders cancelled that just released some Mia's House and Amusement Parks back into the wild.

tried to place another order after cancellation yet ?

[landphieran]

Target has gotten more and more aggressive with their bans. I've been banned from target more times than i can remember. Each time more easily then the next. The most recent ban was a hard ban on my address. I had multiple accounts I ordered from and they sweeper banned them all by address. 

If you are ordering from a single account they appear to have a "throttling" mechanism. If they suspect you are reselling they put your ordering on hold for a while. Usually your account comes back sometime early spring. The throttling mechanism can be circumvented (with varied success) by using a VPN and a different browser. They seem to store fraud related information in the session and do browser matching to see if its the same user. My girlfriend was able to order from her ancient laptop for a while.

Good luck!

 

[Jessekidd13]

13 minutes ago, landphieran said:

Target has gotten more and more aggressive with their bans. I've been banned from target more times than i can remember. Each time more easily then the next. The most recent ban was a hard ban on my address. I had multiple accounts I ordered from and they sweeper banned them all by address. 

If you are ordering from a single account they appear to have a "throttling" mechanism. If they suspect you are reselling they put your ordering on hold for a while. Usually your account comes back sometime early spring. The throttling mechanism can be circumvented (with varied success) by using a VPN and a different browser. They seem to store fraud related information in the session and do browser matching to see if its the same user. My girlfriend was able to order from her ancient laptop for a while.

Good luck!

 

What kind of rough volume are you talking about here?  

[exciter1]

15 minutes ago, landphieran said:

Target has gotten more and more aggressive with their bans. I've been banned from target more times than i can remember. Each time more easily then the next. The most recent ban was a hard ban on my address. I had multiple accounts I ordered from and they sweeper banned them all by address. 

If you are ordering from a single account they appear to have a "throttling" mechanism. If they suspect you are reselling they put your ordering on hold for a while. Usually your account comes back sometime early spring. The throttling mechanism can be circumvented (with varied success) by using a VPN and a different browser. They seem to store fraud related information in the session and do browser matching to see if its the same user. My girlfriend was able to order from her ancient laptop for a while.

Good luck!

 

Happy sleuthing, this is fascinating!