LEGO Bans - Open Discussion

[TheBrickClique]

As for operating with a single account to stay within the vendor’s technically-enforced limits, I believe this is the current state of things.
 

Cliff notes: you’ll be fine as long as you don’t go on a spending spree at Target.com, and try not to bring attention to your buying patterns by dealing with online customer service for small gripes that can be dealt with in store instead.

Target - the easiest place to get banned based simply on purchase volume online and the most aggressive against resellers in store — employees trained to identify resellers loading up carts for example.  Can still use red card in store after online ban, but using with a new email account will result in repeat ban — start receiving auto cancellations and email about possible issues including payment purchase method.  Some people have bans lifted after a period in timeout. Others indefinitely. The amount of purchases that may identify you as a reseller and get a ban? One data point: I have been unable to purchase online going on 18 months now after two months of $5k purchases on the red card. Same red card still works fine in store.
 

LEGO shop at home — with the purchase limits mechanics implemented a few years ago, it is much more difficult to get the SAH ban hammer. If you exceed a limit on any item based on past purchases of the same item, they will cancel your entire order. Be warned that if they cancel an order with a VIP Rewards purchase, the reward is not automatically credited back to your account. Also, if they cancel an item due to inventory issues, the system still tracks it as qty purchased. Qty purchased in brick and mortar stores that are purchased with VIP accounts are not counted towards SAH limits and and limits in store are done at the individual store’s discretion. If you do have to call customer service to resolve an issue, they do have easy visibility to all of your previous orders and will make comments about you “really liking LEGOs”.  No indication that that is how the ban process starts, but unless you really have an issue that needs CS, might be best to just let the small things go. 
 

Amazon — shop away. Their limits are tracked to the second on a 168-hour FIFO.  Limits apply and are tracked in that window only to items sold and shipped by Amazon.com. Buy as many third party items as you wish. Anecdotal stories of bans for excessive returns, but no clear information on the metrics used. Generally, probably best to save the returns for the really bad boxes.  Creating multiple accounts will get noticed and is the quickest way to get the warning shot emails. 
 

Barnes and Noble — similar to LEGO, has a five qty per item lifetime limit online. Exceed that amount and just that item will be cancelled from the order. No reports of bans. In store purchases do not appear to be tied to online memberships as far as adding to your 5-count quantity.  
 

Walmart — most LEGO are limited to two per order, but they won’t say how often that limit is reset.  Doing a couple of multiple limit orders in the same day has worked.  Doing dozens has resulted in order cancellations of those specific items but no bans that I am aware of. Generally, I have found one limit order per day has never resulted in a cancellation. 
 

ShopDisney — some items have limits but they are selectively enforced. If you put in multiple limit orders at the same time, they might cancel those items. If you space them out, they will be fine. I ordered a dozen castles (limit one per customer) last year and they all went through. Sometimes two in two consecutive days. 
 

Costco — has item limits on some items, but I haven’t seen any on LEGOs. Even with items with limits, possible to space them out without issue.  In store limits are usually “per day”. 
 

Best Buy — unsure on LEGO as I’ve never pushed the limits on them. In the past, I would make 50 purchases at a time of 2-dollar items that had limits and they would all go through.  I have tried to make multiple purchases of Xbox consoles and those were cancelled.  So YMMV. But no reports of bans.

Anyways, those are my observations.

[Bold-Arrow]

2 minutes ago, LegoBro said:

 

How do they verify reselling activity?

 

username is one 

[minicoopers11]

1 hour ago, LegoBro said:

 

How do they verify reselling activity?

 

Compare Lego username to username on eBay.

1 hour ago, Jackson said:

LEGO bans are real. I have been banned for a long time and have not been able to find a workaround. Who has ideas?

Move. Aside from a new card and shipping to another address (use that as billing address too) that you can pickup from, moving is only option.

[Mark Twain]

8 hours ago, minicoopers11 said:

Compare Lego username to username on eBay.

Move. Aside from a new card and shipping to another address (use that as billing address too) that you can pickup from, moving is only option.

I’d try renting a P.O Box first.

[boliramirez]

I am not sure they ship to PO boxes.. do they?

[thermos]

11 hours ago, newbie77 said:

Btw, welcome to the dark side.

if you got email mentioning that you are banned then it's not only the purchase history or because of placing 8 orders. 

In the past, based on my experience TLG does and verifies; your reselling activity before taking final ban decision I.e. Those dreaded emails. 

Lego ban are hard ban which means changing name, credit card won't work. It's the physical address that has been banned.

Well, that would do it. Foolishly reselling under the same ebay user ID as my VIP account. Man, that was stupid.

Oh well, I will be busy for years selling my current inventory.

[Citybuilder]

15 minutes ago, boliramirez said:

I am not sure they ship to PO boxes.. do they?

No they do not

[thermos]

22 minutes ago, boliramirez said:

I am not sure they ship to PO boxes.. do they?

I am surprised they do ship to PO as there is a large rural market that would only have PO boxes.

That being said, I would not spend more money to be able to buy from TLG. I hope others do not.

What about paypal and another email address and physical (friend's, neighbour's, etc.)? As far as I know the retailer would never see the physical address associated with the paypal account (there kind of isn't one). If need be, it is easy enough to set up 2 paypal accounts and free to transfer between them.

Edited November 30, 2017 by thermos

[minicoopers11]

1 hour ago, Mark Twain said:

I’d try renting a P.O Box first.

As noted already, they don't ship to PO Boxes. And they also, theoretically per their policy, don't ship to third party addresses (so no UPS store, Fedex pickup location, etc).

[Phil B]

I have no problem getting all my LEGO Shop at Home orders shipped to my PO Box. Have been doing so for the last 2 years. As a matter of fact, have a truckload of 40223 currently underway.

[gregpj]

30 minutes ago, minicoopers11 said:

As noted already, they don't ship to PO Boxes. And they also, theoretically per their policy, don't ship to third party addresses (so no UPS store, Fedex pickup location, etc).

LEGO doesn't ship to PO Boxes in Canada. They will ship to PO Boxes in the US but standard only (no express) and without tracking.

[legone3]

36 minutes ago, Phil B said:

I have no problem getting all my LEGO Shop at Home orders shipped to my PO Box. Have been doing so for the last 2 years. As a matter of fact, have a truckload of 40223 currently underway.

What size of PO box do you have? At USPS a 12" x 22.5" costs $500 a year. That's too expensive yet too small for most of us.

Edited November 30, 2017 by legone3

[Phil B]

15 minutes ago, gregpj said:

LEGO doesn't ship to PO Boxes in Canada. They will ship to PO Boxes in the US but standard only (no express) and without tracking.

Nope, proper tracking on every shipment.

8 minutes ago, legone3 said:

What size of PO box do you have? At USPS a 12" x 22.5" costs $500 a year. That's too expensive yet too small for most of us.

Tiny box, costs me $90 per year (and I use it for one of my other businesses). If it doesn't fit, they leave a note in my box and I have to go and get my package from the counter (or sometimes they leave a little key for one of the larger boxes which will hold my shipment).

[legone3]

Good to know, thanks!

Just found this too:

https://www.giantprintshop.com/2012/02/01/street-addressing-now-available-for-usps-p-o-box-holders/

However:

https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/sri/ship-box.page

Edited November 30, 2017 by legone3

[gregpj]

1 hour ago, Phil B said:

Nope, proper tracking on every shipment.

Just quoting their own policies.... the fact that they don't follow them should surprise no one.

[newbie77]

13 hours ago, Bold-Arrow said:

username is one 

they go much deeper than that. 

i believe the have outsourced it to some agency in NewYork for the leg work. [ it won't surprise me that they would have ordered few items from you namely recent sets that one is quick flipping to verify your activity and source ]

i got caught with 75920 . [namely because till that point i never ordered more than 2 copies of any other sets and was not in their radar at all]. it took them about 9 months from the last order of 75920 to actually cancel orders and ban my account.

i do miss all the freebies though.... 

their hard ban are also of two kind. first one permanent ban i.e. you can't make single purchase even in the store. [ of course can do using cash.]

other one, you can make purchase at the store even though being banned online using same VIP account.

Edited November 30, 2017 by newbie77

[Shewie]

13 hours ago, newbie77 said:

Btw, welcome to the dark side.

if you got email mentioning that you are banned then it's not only the purchase history or because of placing 8 orders. 

In the past, based on my experience TLG does and verifies; your reselling activity before taking final ban decision I.e. Those dreaded emails. 

Lego ban are hard ban which means changing name, credit card won't work. It's the physical address that has been banned.

6 months is a first stage ban, but you've got E10 end of user agreement. so you are done.
Semi automated algorithm is responsible for triggering the bans on those who are making multiple orders, large volume of orders etc.

Lego is collecting the data about you on every aspect once you are logged in.
How often do you do your purchases and for how much money.
They are collecting information as well about your search history on website.
etc.

system is very sensitive, can trigger ban even on those whose intention is not reselling nor collecting multiple  bonus goodies. If you doesn't fit to the algorithm frame of purchase behaviour for "typical"  new user you will be eventually banned as well.

ebay nicks are important but it's machine learning software working for LEGO on that aspect and there is no option to file appeal. Ban is permanent.

[thermos]

I have to laugh that I still get VIP email.

Just got - Announcing the Downtown Diner!

[Guest TabbyBoy]

I can't understand LEGO's logic... If resellers are buying up all the sets leaving none left for little Timmy and little Jenny, why not simply make more? They've no problem churning out a vast over-supply of crappy Friends, Pooper Heroes and Star Wars sets. I'm now thinking that LEGO's production numbers are set in stone and it's a huge faff to adjust that if the need arises. If I was making LEGO sets and selling them, I'd say... "Of course, Sir - How many pallets of 21312 Women of NASA would you like?"

Could it be that 99.9% of LEGO buyers are end users and 0.1% are resellers? This is the $64,000 question could never be answered.

2 minutes ago, thermos said:

I have to laugh that I still get VIP email.

Just got - Announcing the Downtown Diner!

You're privileged, I ain't got my email yet.

[newbie77]

24 minutes ago, TabbyBoy said:

I can't understand LEGO's logic... If resellers are buying up all the sets leaving none left for little Timmy and little Jenny, why not simply make more? They've no problem churning out a vast over-supply of crappy Friends, Pooper Heroes and Star Wars sets. I'm now thinking that LEGO's production numbers are set in stone and it's a huge faff to adjust that if the need arises. If I was making LEGO sets and selling them, I'd say... "Of course, Sir - How many pallets of 21312 Women of NASA would you like?"

Could it be that 99.9% of LEGO buyers are end users and 0.1% are resellers? This is the $64,000 question could never be answered.

You're privileged, I ain't got my email yet.

Not correct their numbers are not set in stone. It's the reseller demand and horde that causes artificial demand which causes TLG to overproduce and saturate the market. Eventually in long term it will reach equilibrium but that long term might be pretty long.

as with any manufacturing, there is a minimum qty or estimated qty run. So if they produce 10,000X for first run and expect to last 30 days. With resellers and horde artificial demand that will be absorbed in day. Then their estimate will be off. So now they produce 300,000X and viola you got a saturated set. 

But whatever they do they are killing most of the reseller market.

only that are thriving are 

a. Connections at high places to get supply

b. Back door supply outlet

[thermos]

[KingFelix]

So I was warned by LEGO by email

" Thanks for your interest in LEGO® toys.

LEGO.com/service, LEGO.com/shop and the LEGO Stores are dedicated direct-to-consumer sales channels. In order to provide the highest possible level of service to our consumers, we have instituted a policy of not selling or shipping products or individual bricks and pieces to retailers or business owners/companies via these channels.

Due to our policies, your recent order couldn’t be processed and has been cancelled. Any future orders will also be cancelled.

Please get in touch with us if you have any questions or concerns. "

I'm not sure what I did wrong exactly. I didn't try and go over any purchase limits, I did make multiple separate orders in order to get more Nutcracker sets, I didn't think that alone would get me flagged though.

I did an online chat and they said I was flagged for reselling. I do some selling on Ebay, but I rarely ever sell anything I buy directly from LEGO. Any thoughts?

[boliramirez]

You have not been warned, you have been banned...

Welcome to the Club !

Is your eBay name different from the one from lego LEGO Shop at Home?

[andyposterfan]

These bans seem to be mainly a US problem. Not sure I've heard of any in the UK / Europe? Is that generally right?

[andyposterfan]

Also... marrying up Lego user Id to EBay if, how do they do that? Your eBay account feedback as a seller does not reveal your sales descriptions. Are they tracking people on a "live basis" everytime a similar username sells Lego? Curious how feasible this is?

[ravenb99]

On 11/30/2017 at 12:34 PM, newbie77 said:

Not correct their numbers are not set in stone. It's the reseller demand and horde that causes artificial demand which causes TLG to overproduce and saturate the market. Eventually in long term it will reach equilibrium but that long term might be pretty long.

as with any manufacturing, there is a minimum qty or estimated qty run. So if they produce 10,000X for first run and expect to last 30 days. With resellers and horde artificial demand that will be absorbed in day. Then their estimate will be off. So now they produce 300,000X and viola you got a saturated set. 

But whatever they do they are killing most of the reseller market.

only that are thriving are 

a. Connections at high places to get supply

b. Back door supply outlet

Lego has a lot of that blame as well.  They have deliberately shorted some items and promos that wound up having way more production than was ever let on.  Reseller demand only affects the hot sets as well not the 95% of sets that are in production.  The people that have the connections are also helping bail out certain products along the way which goes on in pretty much every collectible / toy company. 

21312 is a great example of reseller horde affecting the initial run.  With the success of 21309 just some talk on here took out the online stock but the in store demand was never that way.  I mentioned this in that thread a few times.  It was a perfect storm for a week or 2 flip.  21309 had true demand online and in store.  Still it got affected by the horde but the set had collector interest as well.    It correlates perfectly to how the 2 have faired as well.  

Lego has done things the past few years that keep pushing the limits of getting more and more product out there.  Promos are not rare anymore and seasonal items last for multiple years.  They did something this year that they have never done (similar to selling the globe outright a year later).    They are trying to sell as much as they can no matter what the costs to their perceived collectible image they used to have.