LEGO Bans - Open Discussion

[TheBrickClique]

As for operating with a single account to stay within the vendor’s technically-enforced limits, I believe this is the current state of things.
 

Cliff notes: you’ll be fine as long as you don’t go on a spending spree at Target.com, and try not to bring attention to your buying patterns by dealing with online customer service for small gripes that can be dealt with in store instead.

Target - the easiest place to get banned based simply on purchase volume online and the most aggressive against resellers in store — employees trained to identify resellers loading up carts for example.  Can still use red card in store after online ban, but using with a new email account will result in repeat ban — start receiving auto cancellations and email about possible issues including payment purchase method.  Some people have bans lifted after a period in timeout. Others indefinitely. The amount of purchases that may identify you as a reseller and get a ban? One data point: I have been unable to purchase online going on 18 months now after two months of $5k purchases on the red card. Same red card still works fine in store.
 

LEGO shop at home — with the purchase limits mechanics implemented a few years ago, it is much more difficult to get the SAH ban hammer. If you exceed a limit on any item based on past purchases of the same item, they will cancel your entire order. Be warned that if they cancel an order with a VIP Rewards purchase, the reward is not automatically credited back to your account. Also, if they cancel an item due to inventory issues, the system still tracks it as qty purchased. Qty purchased in brick and mortar stores that are purchased with VIP accounts are not counted towards SAH limits and and limits in store are done at the individual store’s discretion. If you do have to call customer service to resolve an issue, they do have easy visibility to all of your previous orders and will make comments about you “really liking LEGOs”.  No indication that that is how the ban process starts, but unless you really have an issue that needs CS, might be best to just let the small things go. 
 

Amazon — shop away. Their limits are tracked to the second on a 168-hour FIFO.  Limits apply and are tracked in that window only to items sold and shipped by Amazon.com. Buy as many third party items as you wish. Anecdotal stories of bans for excessive returns, but no clear information on the metrics used. Generally, probably best to save the returns for the really bad boxes.  Creating multiple accounts will get noticed and is the quickest way to get the warning shot emails. 
 

Barnes and Noble — similar to LEGO, has a five qty per item lifetime limit online. Exceed that amount and just that item will be cancelled from the order. No reports of bans. In store purchases do not appear to be tied to online memberships as far as adding to your 5-count quantity.  
 

Walmart — most LEGO are limited to two per order, but they won’t say how often that limit is reset.  Doing a couple of multiple limit orders in the same day has worked.  Doing dozens has resulted in order cancellations of those specific items but no bans that I am aware of. Generally, I have found one limit order per day has never resulted in a cancellation. 
 

ShopDisney — some items have limits but they are selectively enforced. If you put in multiple limit orders at the same time, they might cancel those items. If you space them out, they will be fine. I ordered a dozen castles (limit one per customer) last year and they all went through. Sometimes two in two consecutive days. 
 

Costco — has item limits on some items, but I haven’t seen any on LEGOs. Even with items with limits, possible to space them out without issue.  In store limits are usually “per day”. 
 

Best Buy — unsure on LEGO as I’ve never pushed the limits on them. In the past, I would make 50 purchases at a time of 2-dollar items that had limits and they would all go through.  I have tried to make multiple purchases of Xbox consoles and those were cancelled.  So YMMV. But no reports of bans.

Anyways, those are my observations.

[Val-E]

That´s not the ban hammer message per se. Call them to ask for clarification - it could be for another reason.

[BarryZola]

Did you try to order and pay for them all individually? If so, maybe they thought you were trying to rinse the free Olaf polybags? Not sure if this would even happen as I've only made 2 separate orders a few weeks apart but you never know. You probably didn't do this but just throwing it out there.

[Anomander]

43 minutes ago, c_rpg said:

Yes, yes and no. Yeah I wasn't trying to hijack the thread or anything.

Sorry, that LEGO Shop at Home bans thread remark wasn't at you, rather for anyone who might think this wasn't the thread for continuing on the ban discussion.

 

On the LEGO Shop at Home bans thread, I remember someone getting banned (in Europe) for their first order being a big one like yours. She ordered 2 SSDs and some other large set for her husband and son - not to resell -  and got the hammer of injustice crashing down on their good times.

[stephen_rockefeller]

53 minutes ago, c_rpg said:

I'd be interested to see the algorithm they use to determine if you're a reseller or not. There are no direct links to my ebay or amazon accounts. I do have an ebay account under the same email, but it's not used for reselling. If it's just based on what you buy that would be ridiculous. What if some milionair wants to buy some Lego?

Yes, yes and no. Yeah I wasn't trying to hijack the thread or anything.

So you said you have no idea why but what you really meant was you have no idea how they determined you were a reseller  like someone said just give them a call and see what the is because that isnt the ban hammer letter that everyone else receives.

[Brian Briggs]

1 hour ago, c_rpg said:

I'm not gonna list the exact items cause I'm kinda paranoid. They were all 'limit 1' items and less than 10 items in total. I got the "Your recent order didn’t pass our order validation checks and has been cancelled as a result." e-mail a few minutes after placing my order.

Perhaps they use a computer algorithm analysing purchase patterns and yours deviates too much from the norm so they assume a potential fraud attempt? Maybe a phone call is all that is needed to clear the situation up.

[Val-E]

All of this should reallt be moved to the bans thread, when possible but IIRC the official banhammer mail in the US goes like this:

Thanks for your interest in LEGO® toys.

LEGO.com/service, LEGO.com/shop and the LEGO Stores are dedicated direct-to-consumer sales channels. In order to provide the highest possible level of service to our consumers, we have instituted a policy of not selling or shipping products or individual bricks and pieces to retailers or business owners/companies via these channels.

Due to our policies, your recent order couldn’t be processed and has been cancelled. Any future orders will also be cancelled.

Please get in touch with us if you have any questions or concerns.

In the EU we often get a mail saying a specific order has been cancelled due to policy infringement but has anyone received one saying ALL future orders will also be cancelled and that the reasons is suspecting reselling, as above?

[Alpinemaps]

The recent discussion about Bans from S@H have been moved to the LEGO Bans - Open Discussion thread.

[Brenner]

6 hours ago, c_rpg said:

I'm not trying to be a smartass, but I don't really see why an exact list would make any difference. Unless there is some set that automatically triggers a ban when you buy it.

Sorry, like I said I'm just paranoid I guess

No worries mate, hope you get your ban resolved. Just give them a call...

[c_rpg]

Thanks for moving to the relevant thread. I'll call them up this week and find out what's really going on.

[Guest brickcrazyhouse]

9 hours ago, c_rpg said:

Sorry, like I said I'm just paranoid I guess

Paranoia is not a bad thing. Criminals should be paranoid there are cops out to get them. Many of us are resellers and companies will ban you for doing just that. Some members here have donated to Ed's great cause, (as we all should have already) using both their BrickPicker user name and real name.  Yes chances of being "found out" from this is less then my math skills can figure out, but why put that info out there for someone to connect the dots. 

[Phil B]

14 minutes ago, brickcrazyhouse said:

Paranoia is not a bad thing. Criminals should be paranoid there are cops out to get them. Many of us are resellers and companies will ban you for doing just that. Some members here have donated to Ed's great cause, (as we all should have already) using both their BrickPicker user name and real name.  Yes chances of being "found out" from this is less then my math skills can figure out, but why put that info out there for someone to connect the dots. 

I wouldn't compare reselling with criminal activity though ... it might be against a policy that a company has set out to adhere by, but there is no law breaking involved, more a "we don't want to use our retail channel for wholesale purposes" strategy so TLG can control the selling of their product better. bans at other retailers are more for fraud reasons (e.g gift cards using stolen ccs) than for pure reselling, as a matter of fact some stores allow resellers to buy with tax exemptions....

Edited January 31, 2016 by Phil B

[Guest brickcrazyhouse]

you're right Phil. Didn't mean to link our activities to illegal ones. Just that everyone has to worry about something. 

[Yinchuan]

1 hour ago, brickcrazyhouse said:

Paranoia is not a bad thing. Criminals should be paranoid there are cops out to get them. Many of us are resellers and companies will ban you for doing just that. Some members here have donated to Ed's great cause, (as we all should have already) using both their BrickPicker user name and real name.  Yes chances of being "found out" from this is less then my math skills can figure out, but why put that info out there for someone to connect the dots. 

Kind of like the NOC list?

 

[c_rpg]

Update on my situation:

So I called them up today. I got a person on the line after waiting about 15 minutes. The man was very nice and tried to help me out. He asked a bunch of questions like why I tried to order several times and we discussed possible reasons for the cancelled orders. Like people in the thread mentioned a split order is a major reason for cancelling orders, but as my first single order was cancelled this was not the cause. Suspect two was a problem with credit card verification, but as my address checked out this was also not the case.

I get the feeling that the support team does not have a lot of control over the verification process as they talked about a 'special verification team that checks a whole bunch of information'. They said they would pass on my information to the 'verification team'. So far I haven't heard anything so I assume they are still 'verifying', whatever that means.

Edited February 8, 2016 by c_rpg

[newbie77]

10 minutes ago, c_rpg said:

Update on my situation:

So I called them up today. I got a person on the line after waiting about 15 minutes. The man was very nice and tried to help me out. He asked a bunch of questions like why I tried to order several times and we discussed possible reasons for the cancelled orders. Like people in the thread mentioned a split order is a major reason for cancelling orders, but as my first single order was cancelled this was not the cause. Suspect two was a problem with credit card verification, but as my address checked out this was also not the case.

I get the feeling that the support team does not have a lot of control over the verification process as they talked about a 'special verification team that checks a whole bunch of information'. They said they would pass on my information to the 'verification team'. So far I haven't heard anything so I assume they are still 'verifying', whatever that means.

looks like "the stringent verification system" that was enforced in US now got spread to other countries/continents as well.

long story short, don't be greedy and don't order too much from LEGO Shop at Home. looks like they are putting a lot of restriction and they have enhanced their web ordering significantly. somewhere i heard (this needs to be verified and i don't know the authenticity of this) that they contracted amazon to actually implement order verification which has been implemented from october of 2015. 

At this point, 

1. they have been able to crack down on multiple accounts with same/similar address

2. orders placed from same ip in multiple accounts 

they do have "2nd tier" team which is actually doing the leg work of matching those multiple order/account/creditcard. purchase history et al to put the recommendation for ban. i believe there is signification work involved in the ordering pattern. once that is authorized and ban is put in place its virtually impossible to get that overturned.

best option is to not get noticed. order small and very very limited number. 

especially if any one of us were following that 1 exclusives/day during VIP routine and ordering, and we get noticed. it will be better to gracefully bow out. very hard to explain all the exclusives ordered.. at least 60 in a year right? 

Edited February 8, 2016 by newbie77

[waddamon]

Lego will one day regret the actions they are now undertaking.  They are too greedy in many ways, it will cost them.  I don't know how long but I think I will point to 2015 and 2016 as peak of the Lego era.  Down hill from here.  Notice, I did not say Lego investing era.

[Bold-Arrow]

8 minutes ago, waddamon said:

Lego will one day regret the actions they are now undertaking.  They are too greedy in many ways, it will cost them.  I don't know how long but I think I will point to 2015 and 2016 as peak of the Lego era.  Down hill from here.  Notice, I did not say Lego investing era.

Care to elaborate ? 

[hweight]

I think the best way to do it, is to go to a Lego store, pay in cash and don't use our VIP account.

I know how I am going to do it. But I am not talking!

[Mos_Eisley]

5 minutes ago, waddamon said:

Lego will one day regret the actions they are now undertaking.  They are too greedy in many ways, it will cost them.  I don't know how long but I think I will point to 2015 and 2016 as peak of the Lego era.  Down hill from here.  Notice, I did not say Lego investing era.

I completely agree. They've gotten a little full of themselves. One day they'll be begging for people to buy whatever they want again. Their problem is that they are dependent on one kind of toy. While it's a great one, it's easy for general interest to decrease for it. When Barbie goes down in popularity for a while, Mattel can still do ok because they have Monster High or any of another number of toys. 

[Lordoflego]

I hope it bites them in the rear in some way, plus now when I think about it, bans don't do anything, if one of us got a ban (of course many already do) would it actually do anything except changing ones methods to still buy Lego? I've been buying for years and never got banned at any store/web site but what worries me is when I go to my Lego VIP account and check my account history, my VIP points since I joined......pretty high number.

[Bold-Arrow]

Until Lego bans Timmy grandma for buying a set or two I don't think that will affect their bottom line or policies . Seems to me they have a near perfect record of only banning resellers . 

The day Lego wants/begs resellers to buy their product is the day Lego investment goes down the tube . If the end consumer doesn't want it who will the investor sell to ?

[Lordoflego]

Lol, that's true too, but 2 things, one- what percentage of bulk buyers they ban? Very small I think. So what does it change plus...

what I mentioned earlier, they must know that banning doesn't mean not buying Lego anymore, so isn't it.....well, pointless? Plus I feel it's unfair, I should get a ban years ago, instead I hear of a new investor here or there making his first big investment order/orders, and bum! He gets a ban.

[waddamon]

All businesses have have their growth and then contraction.  Lego continues to sell a luxury toy that is very, very expensive.  They have enacted price controls which if they had corporate headquarters in the good OK USA would have them facing government prosecution.  I believe they are producing too many sets from too many themes.  The market is becoming saturated.  They are cannibalizing their own sales with too many products.  They are making lots of one of sets and also losing the creativity of the toy, which is what made it popular to begin with.  The cause of their salvation was licensed themes, it will be their demise.  They could learn a lot from afols and the mocs they build, creative.  Greed and arrogance are going to catch up with them.  If I wasn't an investor I would not be spending these kind of dollars for the vast quantity of new sets.  I make a very healthy living and still wouldn't do it.  People on this site buy extras to sell to fund their hobby.  Lego istarting to ban these people, their actual target market. It is idiocy.  Those are some thoughts.

[Bold-Arrow]

I think from TLG point of view, they don't to look bad in the public's eye , for the most part . they don't want to be oos on an item while BA is selling 300 units for 10x the price . By banning the reseller scum BA is, they have a good PR image .

Also I would think they would want to regulate their production to be more in line with "regular" consumer behavior . 

[Lordoflego]

9 minutes ago, waddamon said:

All businesses have have their growth and then contraction.  Lego continues to sell a luxury toy that is very, very expensive.  They have enacted price controls which if they had corporate headquarters in the good OK USA would have them facing government prosecution.  I believe they are producing too many sets from too many themes.  The market is becoming saturated.  They are cannibalizing their own sales with too many products.  They are making lots of one of sets and also losing the creativity of the toy, which is what made it popular to begin with.  The cause of their salvation was licensed themes, it will be their demise.  They could learn a lot from afols and the mocs they build, creative.  Greed and arrogance are going to catch up with them.  If I wasn't an investor I would not be spending these kind of dollars for the vast quantity of new sets.  I make a very healthy living and still wouldn't do it.  People on this site buy extras to sell to fund their hobby.  Lego istarting to ban these people, their actual target market. It is idiocy.  Those are some thoughts.

They, they, they...I agree, I don't know if I'm right but I feel this way too, plus yes, Lego is a very expensive toy, even in US, which is one of the better places to shop  IMO. I only resell, built a total of....10 sets (probably 7-8 polybags and 2 small sets, because Lego is still very damn cool and I still had few little sets as a kid in early 80's), so...I'm a simple man, but feel like they are wrong in many ways nowadays.....lalala