LEGO Bans - Open Discussion

[TheBrickClique]

As for operating with a single account to stay within the vendor’s technically-enforced limits, I believe this is the current state of things.
 

Cliff notes: you’ll be fine as long as you don’t go on a spending spree at Target.com, and try not to bring attention to your buying patterns by dealing with online customer service for small gripes that can be dealt with in store instead.

Target - the easiest place to get banned based simply on purchase volume online and the most aggressive against resellers in store — employees trained to identify resellers loading up carts for example.  Can still use red card in store after online ban, but using with a new email account will result in repeat ban — start receiving auto cancellations and email about possible issues including payment purchase method.  Some people have bans lifted after a period in timeout. Others indefinitely. The amount of purchases that may identify you as a reseller and get a ban? One data point: I have been unable to purchase online going on 18 months now after two months of $5k purchases on the red card. Same red card still works fine in store.
 

LEGO shop at home — with the purchase limits mechanics implemented a few years ago, it is much more difficult to get the SAH ban hammer. If you exceed a limit on any item based on past purchases of the same item, they will cancel your entire order. Be warned that if they cancel an order with a VIP Rewards purchase, the reward is not automatically credited back to your account. Also, if they cancel an item due to inventory issues, the system still tracks it as qty purchased. Qty purchased in brick and mortar stores that are purchased with VIP accounts are not counted towards SAH limits and and limits in store are done at the individual store’s discretion. If you do have to call customer service to resolve an issue, they do have easy visibility to all of your previous orders and will make comments about you “really liking LEGOs”.  No indication that that is how the ban process starts, but unless you really have an issue that needs CS, might be best to just let the small things go. 
 

Amazon — shop away. Their limits are tracked to the second on a 168-hour FIFO.  Limits apply and are tracked in that window only to items sold and shipped by Amazon.com. Buy as many third party items as you wish. Anecdotal stories of bans for excessive returns, but no clear information on the metrics used. Generally, probably best to save the returns for the really bad boxes.  Creating multiple accounts will get noticed and is the quickest way to get the warning shot emails. 
 

Barnes and Noble — similar to LEGO, has a five qty per item lifetime limit online. Exceed that amount and just that item will be cancelled from the order. No reports of bans. In store purchases do not appear to be tied to online memberships as far as adding to your 5-count quantity.  
 

Walmart — most LEGO are limited to two per order, but they won’t say how often that limit is reset.  Doing a couple of multiple limit orders in the same day has worked.  Doing dozens has resulted in order cancellations of those specific items but no bans that I am aware of. Generally, I have found one limit order per day has never resulted in a cancellation. 
 

ShopDisney — some items have limits but they are selectively enforced. If you put in multiple limit orders at the same time, they might cancel those items. If you space them out, they will be fine. I ordered a dozen castles (limit one per customer) last year and they all went through. Sometimes two in two consecutive days. 
 

Costco — has item limits on some items, but I haven’t seen any on LEGOs. Even with items with limits, possible to space them out without issue.  In store limits are usually “per day”. 
 

Best Buy — unsure on LEGO as I’ve never pushed the limits on them. In the past, I would make 50 purchases at a time of 2-dollar items that had limits and they would all go through.  I have tried to make multiple purchases of Xbox consoles and those were cancelled.  So YMMV. But no reports of bans.

Anyways, those are my observations.

[trekgate502]

In regards to opening up the points debate again (and, for that matter, letting the world see our political system)...

saying this all in good ribbing but I have to respond !

hey well if I wanted to drop an explosive comment in a room like ravenb99 did I could just say ....

At least half of our political system allows free and open debates ...

But that would be inflammatory as well so I will not say that

I have great admiration for England as our strongest ally (yes I love Canada too) but sounds like you may prefer the Anakin Skywalker Episode II version of democracy

Have someone that should make them all agree

like Obi Wan said we are going down a road we do not want to Alpinekan

now back to the points debate

I agree completely with newbie

If you plan to not spend another dollar the rest of the year then it does not matter when you use your points

If you plan to buy lots every month you should save them until after vip

someone please challenge this theory he proposed

 

[lego rules]

decided to do my own quick analysis of using VIP or not.

2 scenarios with both starting with zero VIP balance.  Spend $1000 per month and using as much VIP points as you could in $5 increments, 13% tax used in calculation of total cost.

Scenario 1:  Not using VIP points twice a year in April and Oct.

Scenario 2: Using VIP points every month

 

Results:

Scenario 1:  Total Cost $12,859.40  VIP balance remaining $49

Scenario 2:  Total Cost $12,865.05  VIP balance remaining $49

My conclusion:

With only a $5.65 difference or 0.04% it is best to spend VIP always.

[exciter1]

If you fear a ban, you might want to use them.

[trekgate502]

decided to do my own quick analysis of using VIP or not.

2 scenarios with both starting with zero VIP balance.  Spend $1000 per month and using as much VIP points as you could in $5 increments, 13% tax used in calculation of total cost.

Scenario 1:  Not using VIP points twice a year in April and Oct.

Scenario 2: Using VIP points every month

 

Results:

Scenario 1:  Total Cost $12,859.40  VIP balance remaining $49

Scenario 2:  Total Cost $12,865.05  VIP balance remaining $49

My conclusion:

With only a $5.65 difference or 0.04% it is best to spend VIP always.

13 percent tax

what punitive fiefdom do you live in ?

[lego rules]

13 percent tax

what punitive fiefdom do you live in ?

The great North!

[Val-E]

If you fear a ban, you might want to use them.

Lego should ban everyone that has, is or will spend more than 10 seconds of their time calculating whether it is better to spend VIP points in double VIP period or not. Trust me, they will be doing you a favour.

Edited October 22, 2015 by valenciaeric

[trekgate502]

Lego should ban everyone that has, is or will spend more than 10 seconds of their time calculating whether it is better to spend VIP points in double VIP period or not.

way to think outside the box

now is it the old pet shop box or a new one ?

[Pseudoty]

so it turned into a debate anyways...  One day we can just live feed a LEGO points debate instead of the below.  Sure ratings would be through the roof...

What is this TAX thing you guys are all talking about and who is the guy on the right

[lego rules]

Just for fun.....changed $1000 / month to $230 / month which is the cost of a lot of exclusives up here.

Using or not using VIP during VIP made ZERO difference in terms of Total Cost, they were both $2960.60.  You did gain a $1 advantage in VIP balance not using during X2 VIP.  $14 balance not using and $13 balance using every month.

Anyways, I had a bit of a scare when I place 4 separate orders for $100 each and they cancelled the last one.  A call into Lego and pushed it to their review team.  Within two days the order was In Process.  Ban hammer diverted.

[hannibal]

I didn't record the conversation but, it sort of went like this....

I walked up to the till with an armful of large sets which were well within purchasing limits and handed over my VIP card which was bloated with points to redeem.

 

Assistant - Good evening Sir, may I help you? Somebody's going to have nice presents!

Me - No they are for me, I'm a LEGO collector and a big fan of Star Wars (handed over VIP card).

Assistant - (Checking VIP balance) Wow, you have a lot of points to redeem, let me make a quick call to check that all is in order (gut feeling that I've been rumbled).

Me - No problem, go ahead - I'm a very keen collector, a huge fan of LEGO and I trust all is OK?

Assistant - (5min later) I'm sorry Sir but, we have to request the return of your VIP card as we find your purchase history alarming and against our policy.

Me - What?! I've always purchased within limits online. What about my points then, can I still use them at a later date?

Assistant - No Sir, my regional manager has to stand firm and has instructed me to cancel your membership and destroy this card. It's not my fault and sorry I can't help more.

Me - (I swore at him and wish I hadn't) Tell this boss of yours that he's a nasty arsehoIe and he's not getting away with this, give me his name right now!!!

Assistant - I'm not allowed to give out names, it's not my decision and I'm only doing what I'm told. (my blood was starting to boil)

Me - OK, OK, sorry I swore at you - I'm not going to let this rest and it makes me so angry that LEGO treats it's loyal resellers (nearly said it!) customers like this. Tell your boss that I want his head on a spike!

Assistant - As I said, I can't help you at this time but, please contact Customer Services - Goodbye, Sir.

 

...... I was pissed, on the way out of the shop I shouted to the other customers that Amazon was the best place to get LEGO from and Mega Bloks is actually better!

It's only been a couple of days and I've not had a reply from my email to CS yet. If they have an ounce of decency, I will at least be able to redeem by VIP points and I'll call it a day. I'm still shocked that I had no warning whatsoever and thought this would only happen online, not in a shop which was quite embarrassing. My only regret now is not buying 99x HH and 99x TH when I had the chance! I had a scare last year but, this was a system error and all was OK after an apology from LEGO. Now it's real and you do get banned in the UK.

Guys.... It seems like a high VIP points balance raises the red flag. Don't let it build up like mine did, just spend them one set at a time. I haven't actually bought much over the last year but, I was silly to not spend the points earlier.

 

 

That's pretty aggressive on their side, isn't it? I personally would go mad and have a massive go at them and won't leave the shop until a reason is given and...

Well as I said above...going all out with the media and advertising how much money can be made with Lego didn't do anybody any good...it's quite the opposite.

Also if you don't mind asking, which shop was that? 

And lastly, check this out. Lego warns it struggles to fulfill the orders with the hype of SW just before Christmas: http://news.sky.com/story/1573589/star-wars-leads-to-lego-xmas-supply-warning

[Val-E]

Now, another dumb question. Are you now banned from shopping at Lego or only no longer a VIP?

[dcdfan]

Now, another dumb question. Are you now banned from shopping at Lego or only no longer a VIP?

His picture is posted on all the registers...

[waydog]

His picture is posted on all the registers...

you just made me blow my energy drink out my nose.  well done sir.

[Gonkalin]

Now, another dumb question. Are you now banned from shopping at Lego or only no longer a VIP?

I got banned this week and I specifically asked the Lego rep on the phone if I could still shop in the Lego store and he said I could. But I have not tried it yet.

[Val-E]

I meant to say the at online store!

Obviously, paying in cash and with no VIP card you can walk into any B+M shop, no hassle.

[Guest TabbyBoy]

Now, another dumb question. Are you now banned from shopping at Lego or only no longer a VIP?

In my case, my online account is closed and no longer a VIP. But, there's nothing stopping me going into another branch and paying cash or using a different credit card. I'm still awaiting a response from CS before I do anything. I can't help thinking that LEGO are having big problems right now.

[Ed Mack]

In my case, my online account is closed and no longer a VIP. But, there's nothing stopping me going into another branch and paying cash or using a different credit card. I'm still awaiting a response from CS before I do anything. I can't help thinking that LEGO are having big problems right now.

If LEGO is indeed suffering from a lack of inventory, then I guess the banning of resellers and customers with questionable buying habits will become more and more common.

[Guest TabbyBoy]

 

If LEGO is indeed suffering from a lack of inventory, then I guess the banning of resellers and customers with questionable buying habits will become more and more common.

 

Apart from selling 1 Fire Brigade on eBay (that led to me selling another 99 a month later offline to the same buyer), I've not sold a single set bought direct from LEGO for a very long time. If LEGO had the proof, then fair enough. Everything else I've sold has been through word of mouth. I personally think jealousy and dirty tactics from competitors could play a part? All is not lost as there are plenty of creative ways to purchase if I feel the need to. I'm actually quite tempted to ask a friend (VIP) to buy me another Red 5 with the Stormtrooper and Holiday Train promo. He can keep the 2xVIP and I'll also get him a beer in the pub tonight.

A thought... Do LEGO plant moles in the eBay buying community? So many theories on how some of us get rumbled.

BTW... Still no reponse from CS yet.

[Val-E]

I think they just saw you had so many points (after all they do expire) that it was not normal. When you spend over 9 grand on Lego in such a period of time it is clearly not for personal use.

[Bluetoon]

Apart from selling 1 Fire Brigade on eBay (that led to me selling another 99 a month later offline to the same buyer), I've not sold a single set bought direct from LEGO for a very long time. If LEGO had the proof, then fair enough. Everything else I've sold has been through word of mouth. I personally think jealousy and dirty tactics from competitors could play a part? All is not lost as there are plenty of creative ways to purchase if I feel the need to. I'm actually quite tempted to ask a friend (VIP) to buy me another Red 5 with the Stormtrooper and Holiday Train promo. He can keep the 2xVIP and I'll also get him a beer in the pub tonight.

A thought... Do LEGO plant moles in the eBay buying community? So many theories on how some of us get rumbled.

BTW... Still no reponse from CS yet.

I think you're missing the point. You bought 99 FB. That action alone labels you what you are, regardless if you were to sell them or keep them - a reseller; and certainly not a regular Lego customer.

Whether you were found out back when you did the original 99 transaction, or they recently looked in your past and said, "oh ****", this can not have been a surprise. It's not just the selling, but the irrational number you bought. 

[Guest TabbyBoy]

I think they just saw you had so many points (after all they do expire) that it was not normal. When you spend over 9 grand on Lego in such a period of time it is clearly not for personal use.

There's friends of mine who buy for personal use and spend a lot more than I ever did. Their 2 girls have at least 2 of every Friends, Frozen & Elves set and the boy has every Star Wars, CITY, Movie and Agents set let alone dozens of others. They had over £2,000 in points a week ago that are being spent on a Xmas blow out and day now. Their playroom is an eye opener and put's a lot of pictures on here to shame. LEGO shouldn't really take people's buying habits for granted.

[jerryherb]

There's friends of mine who buy for personal use and spend a lot more than I ever did. Their 2 girls have at least 2 of every Friends, Frozen & Elves set and the boy has every Star Wars, CITY, Movie and Agents set let alone dozens of others. They had over £2,000 in points a week ago that are being spent on a Xmas blow out and day now. Their playroom is an eye opener and put's a lot of pictures on here to shame. LEGO shouldn't really take people's buying habits for granted.

having one or two of the same sets would not paint a target on one. buying 99 of the same set would most definitely.

[Val-E]

There's friends of mine who buy for personal use and spend a lot more than I ever did. Their 2 girls have at least 2 of every Friends, Frozen & Elves set and the boy has every Star Wars, CITY, Movie and Agents set let alone dozens of others. They had over £2,000 in points a week ago that are being spent on a Xmas blow out and day now. Their playroom is an eye opener and put's a lot of pictures on here to shame. LEGO shouldn't really take people's buying habits for granted.

Let´s see if this fits with the above 2 posts - Store clerk gets suspicious due to the high number of points to be redeemed, calls central offices and they run a full history check and see things they don´t like and then instruct the clerk to cancel the card and block you from online purchasing

I remember in the lego documentary on C4 the guy building that heli carrier with his wife spent an obscene amount too but maybe not with so many copies of the same set. What you did was legit at the time but clearly the rules have changed and I doubt they are going to want to get into giving explanations if they don´t have to.

Lessons of the story,redeem points in tranches and be aware that what is good today may not be tomorrow. Also, avoid using lego shop for anythingother than exclusive things or very special offers.

 

Edited October 23, 2015 by valenciaeric

[Miami Bomb Squad]

I would have gotten a shopping cart, filled it up and walked out the door if they didn't return my card.
Lego has rules, so do I.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Miami Bomb Squad

[TigerG]

I think the vast amount of points on your VIP account triggered the check and that one purchase of 99 FB was solely enough to send your account into Hammerland.

And from somebody who is very keen on reward points schemes: Don't hoard points - no matter if it's in-store, hotel, airline or anything. Spend them, spend them, spend them asap. You never know when somebody decides to take your virtual currency away or changes the rules...

Edited October 23, 2015 by TigerG