LEGO Bans - Open Discussion

[TheBrickClique]

As for operating with a single account to stay within the vendor’s technically-enforced limits, I believe this is the current state of things.
 

Cliff notes: you’ll be fine as long as you don’t go on a spending spree at Target.com, and try not to bring attention to your buying patterns by dealing with online customer service for small gripes that can be dealt with in store instead.

Target - the easiest place to get banned based simply on purchase volume online and the most aggressive against resellers in store — employees trained to identify resellers loading up carts for example.  Can still use red card in store after online ban, but using with a new email account will result in repeat ban — start receiving auto cancellations and email about possible issues including payment purchase method.  Some people have bans lifted after a period in timeout. Others indefinitely. The amount of purchases that may identify you as a reseller and get a ban? One data point: I have been unable to purchase online going on 18 months now after two months of $5k purchases on the red card. Same red card still works fine in store.
 

LEGO shop at home — with the purchase limits mechanics implemented a few years ago, it is much more difficult to get the SAH ban hammer. If you exceed a limit on any item based on past purchases of the same item, they will cancel your entire order. Be warned that if they cancel an order with a VIP Rewards purchase, the reward is not automatically credited back to your account. Also, if they cancel an item due to inventory issues, the system still tracks it as qty purchased. Qty purchased in brick and mortar stores that are purchased with VIP accounts are not counted towards SAH limits and and limits in store are done at the individual store’s discretion. If you do have to call customer service to resolve an issue, they do have easy visibility to all of your previous orders and will make comments about you “really liking LEGOs”.  No indication that that is how the ban process starts, but unless you really have an issue that needs CS, might be best to just let the small things go. 
 

Amazon — shop away. Their limits are tracked to the second on a 168-hour FIFO.  Limits apply and are tracked in that window only to items sold and shipped by Amazon.com. Buy as many third party items as you wish. Anecdotal stories of bans for excessive returns, but no clear information on the metrics used. Generally, probably best to save the returns for the really bad boxes.  Creating multiple accounts will get noticed and is the quickest way to get the warning shot emails. 
 

Barnes and Noble — similar to LEGO, has a five qty per item lifetime limit online. Exceed that amount and just that item will be cancelled from the order. No reports of bans. In store purchases do not appear to be tied to online memberships as far as adding to your 5-count quantity.  
 

Walmart — most LEGO are limited to two per order, but they won’t say how often that limit is reset.  Doing a couple of multiple limit orders in the same day has worked.  Doing dozens has resulted in order cancellations of those specific items but no bans that I am aware of. Generally, I have found one limit order per day has never resulted in a cancellation. 
 

ShopDisney — some items have limits but they are selectively enforced. If you put in multiple limit orders at the same time, they might cancel those items. If you space them out, they will be fine. I ordered a dozen castles (limit one per customer) last year and they all went through. Sometimes two in two consecutive days. 
 

Costco — has item limits on some items, but I haven’t seen any on LEGOs. Even with items with limits, possible to space them out without issue.  In store limits are usually “per day”. 
 

Best Buy — unsure on LEGO as I’ve never pushed the limits on them. In the past, I would make 50 purchases at a time of 2-dollar items that had limits and they would all go through.  I have tried to make multiple purchases of Xbox consoles and those were cancelled.  So YMMV. But no reports of bans.

Anyways, those are my observations.

[cissi]

Tabbyboy that's a pretty fierce stance they took with you there, didn't know the happy people at Lego had it in them TBH. Will be interesting to see if all my orders go through tonight, can't say id be fussed though if I do get banned as I rarely use LEGO Shop at Home anymore. Look on the bright side though fella, at least you get a new Brickpicker badge

But the thing is... the badges are long gone...................

 

PS. I've never seen any reason to bank the points. Points are taken off pre-tax so it doesn't matter if you bank them or not.

[Crustybeaver]

But the thing is... the badges are long gone...................

 

PS. I've never seen any reason to bank the points. Points are taken off pre-tax so it doesn't matter if you bank them or not.

No worries, I've put one together. It'll make the perfect signature.

[DadsAFOL]

PS. I've never seen any reason to bank the points. Points are taken off pre-tax so it doesn't matter if you bank them or not.

Except during double VIP - better to bank this month and spend next month.

[cissi]

 

Except during double VIP - better to bank this month and spend next month.

Yes, except for that. I don't spend my points during those weeks. Outside of those days, I use up my points as soon as possible. They aren't getting any interest, why save?

[Guest]

 

Except during double VIP - better to bank this month and spend next month.

There are scenarios where it is fine to use points during double vip. For example, I had $40 in points I was going to use on a Palace Cinema. At no point was I considering buying it at full MSRP. So when I buy a Palace Cinema from LEGO Shop at Home I will be using $40 in points. It makes more sense for me to do that now and get 2XVIP on the rest of the purchase then wait until next month and only get 1XVIP on that amount.

[KShine]

The problem was not using the VIP points as you got them. That total available was clearly unreasonably high for anyone to believe it was legit.

Forget about trying to come up with a safe level to avoid red flags. There is no good reason to let them pile up - just use them.

[Val-E]

I didn't record the conversation but, it sort of went like this....

I walked up to the till with an armful of large sets which were well within purchasing limits and handed over my VIP card which was bloated with points to redeem.

 

Assistant - Good evening Sir, may I help you? Somebody's going to have nice presents!

Me - No they are for me, I'm a LEGO collector and a big fan of Star Wars (handed over VIP card).

Assistant - (Checking VIP balance) Wow, you have a lot of points to redeem, let me make a quick call to check that all is in order (gut feeling that I've been rumbled).

Me - No problem, go ahead - I'm a very keen collector, a huge fan of LEGO and I trust all is OK?

Assistant - (5min later) I'm sorry Sir but, we have to request the return of your VIP card as we find your purchase history alarming and against our policy.

Me - What?! I've always purchased within limits online. What about my points then, can I still use them at a later date?

Assistant - No Sir, my regional manager has to stand firm and has instructed me to cancel your membership and destroy this card. It's not my fault and sorry I can't help more.

Me - (I swore at him and wish I hadn't) Tell this boss of yours that he's a nasty arsehoIe and he's not getting away with this, give me his name right now!!!

Assistant - I'm not allowed to give out names, it's not my decision and I'm only doing what I'm told. (my blood was starting to boil)

Me - OK, OK, sorry I swore at you - I'm not going to let this rest and it makes me so angry that LEGO treats it's loyal resellers (nearly said it!) customers like this. Tell your boss that I want his head on a spike!

Assistant - As I said, I can't help you at this time but, please contact Customer Services - Goodbye, Sir.

 

...... I was pissed, on the way out of the shop I shouted to the other customers that Amazon was the best place to get LEGO from and Mega Bloks is actually better!

It's only been a couple of days and I've not had a reply from my email to CS yet. If they have an ounce of decency, I will at least be able to redeem by VIP points and I'll call it a day. I'm still shocked that I had no warning whatsoever and thought this would only happen online, not in a shop which was quite embarrassing. My only regret now is not buying 99x HH and 99x TH when I had the chance! I had a scare last year but, this was a system error and all was OK after an apology from LEGO. Now it's real and you do get banned in the UK.

Guys.... It seems like a high VIP points balance raises the red flag. Don't let it build up like mine did, just spend them one set at a time. I haven't actually bought much over the last year but, I was silly to not spend the points earlier.

 

 

Thanls for the explanation. Key words PURCHASE HISTORY. I guess it was the 99 FB´s and other such (legal at the time) things that they are now cracking down on, not the new stuff.

[sharky1999]

I didn't record the conversation but, it sort of went like this....

I walked up to the till with an armful of large sets which were well within purchasing limits and handed over my VIP card which was bloated with points to redeem.

 

Assistant - Good evening Sir, may I help you? Somebody's going to have nice presents!

Me - No they are for me, I'm a LEGO collector and a big fan of Star Wars (handed over VIP card).

Assistant - (Checking VIP balance) Wow, you have a lot of points to redeem, let me make a quick call to check that all is in order (gut feeling that I've been rumbled).

Me - No problem, go ahead - I'm a very keen collector, a huge fan of LEGO and I trust all is OK?

Assistant - (5min later) I'm sorry Sir but, we have to request the return of your VIP card as we find your purchase history alarming and against our policy.

Me - What?! I've always purchased within limits online. What about my points then, can I still use them at a later date?

Assistant - No Sir, my regional manager has to stand firm and has instructed me to cancel your membership and destroy this card. It's not my fault and sorry I can't help more.

Me - (I swore at him and wish I hadn't) Tell this boss of yours that he's a nasty arsehoIe and he's not getting away with this, give me his name right now!!!

Assistant - I'm not allowed to give out names, it's not my decision and I'm only doing what I'm told. (my blood was starting to boil)

Me - OK, OK, sorry I swore at you - I'm not going to let this rest and it makes me so angry that LEGO treats it's loyal resellers (nearly said it!) customers like this. Tell your boss that I want his head on a spike!

Assistant - As I said, I can't help you at this time but, please contact Customer Services - Goodbye, Sir.

 

...... I was pissed, on the way out of the shop I shouted to the other customers that Amazon was the best place to get LEGO from and Mega Bloks is actually better!

It's only been a couple of days and I've not had a reply from my email to CS yet. If they have an ounce of decency, I will at least be able to redeem by VIP points and I'll call it a day. I'm still shocked that I had no warning whatsoever and thought this would only happen online, not in a shop which was quite embarrassing. My only regret now is not buying 99x HH and 99x TH when I had the chance! I had a scare last year but, this was a system error and all was OK after an apology from LEGO. Now it's real and you do get banned in the UK.

Guys.... It seems like a high VIP points balance raises the red flag. Don't let it build up like mine did, just spend them one set at a time. I haven't actually bought much over the last year but, I was silly to not spend the points earlier.

 

 

Holy Moly!  I find the cursing out of the Lego store employee to be the much more fascinating and compelling part of the story than the ban or the loss of VIP points.  You should have started with that.

[Alpinemaps]

There are scenarios where it is fine to use points during double vip. For example, I had $40 in points I was going to use on a Palace Cinema. At no point was I considering buying it at full MSRP. So when I buy a Palace Cinema from LEGO Shop at Home I will be using $40 in points. It makes more sense for me to do that now and get 2XVIP on the rest of the purchase then wait until next month and only get 1XVIP on that amount.

Just doing the quick math, you're losing out on $5.50 worth of points.  On just one set, honestly - not a big deal.   But your $40 worth of points is actually worth $45.50 next month vs this month, on this one purchase.

[conceptmachine]

I checked out today getting basically "free" high end sets and a holiday train.  Almost felt bad about it...

Edited October 22, 2015 by conceptmachine

[gregpj]

Just doing the quick math, you're losing out on $5.50 worth of points.  On just one set, honestly - not a big deal.   But your $40 worth of points is actually worth $45.50 next month vs this month, on this one purchase.

Risking another all out debate, mathematically speaking it does not matter if you spend VIP points during 2x.

Perception is not reality in this case. 100 points is always worth $5.

I'll try to dig that thread out tomorrow.

[Alpinemaps]

 

Risking another all out debate, mathematically speaking it does not matter if you spend VIP points during 2x.

 

Perception is not reality in this case. 100 points is always worth $5.

 

I'll try to dig that thread out tomorrow.

I like to live dangerously.  Plus, I ignored that thread.  And kinda always wondered myself.  I certainly learned something - it's not as impressive of a savings as I would have thought....which means I should have just bought that Ferris Wheel I had on the counter at the Lego Store the other day.

[newbie77]

 

Risking another all out debate, mathematically speaking it does not matter if you spend VIP points during 2x.

 

Perception is not reality in this case. 100 points is always worth $5.

 

I'll try to dig that thread out tomorrow.

its not only about perception. 100 points is always worth $5 there is no question about it. it always remains the same; difference is potential of earning extra on that redemption value. provided that one assumes that rewards/points/cashback is worth the stated value.

if one is partially redeeming points during 2X earning then its pretty much equivalent as using points from credit card (that has 5% cash back for amazon purchase) to pay for items bought at amazon vs. taking statement credit provided that 100 points converts to $1. it almost looks same except you won't be earning 5% rewards for using the credit card for purchase during point redemption. Once again its only $5 for every 100 spent not a big deal if we are talking about $100 only.

but if we are talking about buying say 149,99*20=$2,999.80 . here 5% = $149,99 dyamn for every 20 pet-shop one would get a set free

having said that, more detailed explanation:

For point redemption vs Statement Credit:

1. have 10,000 points equivalent to $100,00 of either statement credit or $100 towards amazon purchase via point redemption.

Case 1: Buy $100 worth lego set and redeem $100 in points. Final Status: statement balance: $0 Reward Balance: $0

Case 2: Take statement credit of $100. Credit balance on credit card $100. Buy lego set worth $100. earns $5  rewards for future usage. Final Status: Statement balance $0. Reward Balance: $5

during 2X VIP:

buy $149,99 set : earn : 299 points => earn $14.95  points for future usage.

buy the same set $149,99 => redeem $40 in points and pay $109,99 => earn only : 220points => earn only $11.00 for future usage

means you would not earn ($14,95-$11,00=$3,95 worth of points for future usage by redeeming points vs using cash)

QED.

most likely if you can afford it; its worth to not redeem partially or wholly if you intend to make any paid purchases in future for the same stuff. its only about MAXIMIZING value and return. one don't have to follow it. same as using TRU coupon for MSRP or discounted items (maximizes value) but one can use that for sets above MSRP as well. (works but one won't be maximizing return).

Edited October 22, 2015 by newbie77

[California92563]

I like to live dangerously.  Plus, I ignored that thread.  And kinda always wondered myself.  I certainly learned something - it's not as impressive of a savings as I would have thought....which means I should have just bought that Ferris Wheel I had on the counter at the Lego Store the other day.

yes you should have 

[junkrigger]

its not only about perception.

if one is partially redeeming points during 2X earning then its pretty much equivalent as using points from credit card (that has 5% cash back for amazon purchase) to pay for items bought at amazon vs. taking statement credit. it almost look  except you won't be earning 5% rewards for using the credit card for purchase during point redemption. Once again its only $5 for every 100 spent not a big deal if we are talking about $100 only.

but if we are talking about buying say 149,99*20=$2,999.80 . here 5% = $149,99 dyamn for every 20 pet-shop one would get an additional free

having said that, more detailed explanation:

during 2X VIP:

buy $149,99 set : earn : 299 points => earn $14.95  points for future usage.

buy the same set $149,99 => redeem $40 in points and pay $109,99 => earn only : 220points => earn only $11.00 for future usage

means you would lose ($14,95-$11,00=$3,95 worth of points for future usage)

most likely if you can afford it; its worth to not redeem partially or wholly if you intend to make any paid purchases in future for the same stuff. its only about MAXIMIZING value and return. one don't have to follow it.

You will be spending those $40 in point eventually at which point you will lose 40*.05 = $2 of your $4 in earned points.  All you really save or make extra in points by not spending them during Double VIP is 5% of the points you don't spent.  In this case $2.

[jbacunn]

 

most likely if you can afford it; its worth to not redeem partially or wholly if you intend to make any paid purchases in future for the same stuff.

Yeah, unless you get the ban hammer and lose all your accumulated points. 

[tonysbricks]

 

Risking another all out debate, mathematically speaking it does not matter if you spend VIP points during 2x.

 

Perception is not reality in this case. 100 points is always worth $5.

 

I'll try to dig that thread out tomorrow.

This is 100% false. I am not going to debate it again, but it doesn't work in the real world and it didn't work on diablo2112's lab-constructed example either due to VIP's being required to be redeemed in $5 chunks (a technicality, but still valid). Bottom line, if you use VIP during 2x VIP you are throwing away money. I'm out.

[newbie77]

Yeah, unless you get the ban hammer and lose all your accumulated points. 

and if i die on the way back i can't enjoy all the lego i bought.

You will be spending those $40 in point eventually at which point you will lose 40*.05 = $2 of your $4 in earned points.  All you really save or make extra in points by not spending them during Double VIP is 5% of the points you don't spent.  In this case $2.

you are correct. its $2 here based on your extension. now add taxes and calculate the difference. there are way too many ways to slice and dice. which ever way one goes redeeming points from credit card vs taking statement credit and

redeeming points during double VIP one is "not able to keep" what is offered to themselves.

[exciter1]

Don't forget using points also reduces your tax liability.  If you use $50 in points on a $100 purchase, you'll only be taxed on the $50 you're spending out of pocket.  So for those with 8% sales tax, you are paying $4 in tax, rather than $8 on $100 in items.

[gregpj]

This is 100% false. I am not going to debate it again, but it doesn't work in the real world and it didn't work on diablo2112's lab-constructed example either due to VIP's being required to be redeemed in $5 chunks (a technicality, but still valid). Bottom line, if you use VIP during 2x VIP you are throwing away money. I'm out.

No you're not and if you didn't understand my real world example of why it didn't matter, then that's not my problem.

It's a very hard thing to understand.

[ravenb99]

so it turned into a debate anyways...  One day we can just live feed a LEGO points debate instead of the below.  Sure ratings would be through the roof...

[lazuli16]

so it turned into a debate anyways...  One day we can just live feed a LEGO points debate instead of the below.  Sure ratings would be through the roof...

Sounds like we're going to need a new thread/containment cell.

[Guest brickcrazyhouse]

I know it's not on topic but it's times like ranenb99's gif that make me wish we lost the revolutionary war.  

[exciter1]

I know it's not on topic but it's times like ranenb99's gif that make me wish we lost the revolutionary war.  

It cracked me up too...

[Alpinemaps]

In regards to opening up the points debate again (and, for that matter, letting the world see our political system)...