LEGO Bans - Open Discussion

[TheBrickClique]

As for operating with a single account to stay within the vendor’s technically-enforced limits, I believe this is the current state of things.
 

Cliff notes: you’ll be fine as long as you don’t go on a spending spree at Target.com, and try not to bring attention to your buying patterns by dealing with online customer service for small gripes that can be dealt with in store instead.

Target - the easiest place to get banned based simply on purchase volume online and the most aggressive against resellers in store — employees trained to identify resellers loading up carts for example.  Can still use red card in store after online ban, but using with a new email account will result in repeat ban — start receiving auto cancellations and email about possible issues including payment purchase method.  Some people have bans lifted after a period in timeout. Others indefinitely. The amount of purchases that may identify you as a reseller and get a ban? One data point: I have been unable to purchase online going on 18 months now after two months of $5k purchases on the red card. Same red card still works fine in store.
 

LEGO shop at home — with the purchase limits mechanics implemented a few years ago, it is much more difficult to get the SAH ban hammer. If you exceed a limit on any item based on past purchases of the same item, they will cancel your entire order. Be warned that if they cancel an order with a VIP Rewards purchase, the reward is not automatically credited back to your account. Also, if they cancel an item due to inventory issues, the system still tracks it as qty purchased. Qty purchased in brick and mortar stores that are purchased with VIP accounts are not counted towards SAH limits and and limits in store are done at the individual store’s discretion. If you do have to call customer service to resolve an issue, they do have easy visibility to all of your previous orders and will make comments about you “really liking LEGOs”.  No indication that that is how the ban process starts, but unless you really have an issue that needs CS, might be best to just let the small things go. 
 

Amazon — shop away. Their limits are tracked to the second on a 168-hour FIFO.  Limits apply and are tracked in that window only to items sold and shipped by Amazon.com. Buy as many third party items as you wish. Anecdotal stories of bans for excessive returns, but no clear information on the metrics used. Generally, probably best to save the returns for the really bad boxes.  Creating multiple accounts will get noticed and is the quickest way to get the warning shot emails. 
 

Barnes and Noble — similar to LEGO, has a five qty per item lifetime limit online. Exceed that amount and just that item will be cancelled from the order. No reports of bans. In store purchases do not appear to be tied to online memberships as far as adding to your 5-count quantity.  
 

Walmart — most LEGO are limited to two per order, but they won’t say how often that limit is reset.  Doing a couple of multiple limit orders in the same day has worked.  Doing dozens has resulted in order cancellations of those specific items but no bans that I am aware of. Generally, I have found one limit order per day has never resulted in a cancellation. 
 

ShopDisney — some items have limits but they are selectively enforced. If you put in multiple limit orders at the same time, they might cancel those items. If you space them out, they will be fine. I ordered a dozen castles (limit one per customer) last year and they all went through. Sometimes two in two consecutive days. 
 

Costco — has item limits on some items, but I haven’t seen any on LEGOs. Even with items with limits, possible to space them out without issue.  In store limits are usually “per day”. 
 

Best Buy — unsure on LEGO as I’ve never pushed the limits on them. In the past, I would make 50 purchases at a time of 2-dollar items that had limits and they would all go through.  I have tried to make multiple purchases of Xbox consoles and those were cancelled.  So YMMV. But no reports of bans.

Anyways, those are my observations.

[gregpj]

I would agree that it's foolish, since doing 25 orders in a day from LEGO's site will probably result in a ban.  But if it is a hot item and the retailer doesn't ban and doing the separate orders doesn't violate any policies, then doing 25 orders or more is exactly what a reseller needs to do to make money.  Imagine if one were at his desk job, doing paperwork or something, and someone came by every day and was like, "I see you're doing work at your desk to make money.  You're so greedy."

Unfortunately, buying direct from LEGO to resell also violates their policies of selling to end consumers only. It's not about the hustle, it's about playing the game with integrity. Some will get it (Peyton Manning), others won't (Tom Brady).

[Ed Mack]

I would agree that it's foolish, since doing 25 orders in a day from LEGO's site will probably result in a ban.  But if it is a hot item and the retailer doesn't ban and doing the separate orders doesn't violate any policies, then doing 25 orders or more is exactly what a reseller needs to do to make money.  Imagine if one were at his desk job, doing paperwork or something, and someone came by every day and was like, "I see you're doing work at your desk to make money.  You're so greedy."

I have been called greedy for doing my job.  It is what it is.  I take little offense.  I often work seven days a week, but in order to support my family and live up to certain standards, I have to.  I don't think anyone is knocking another person for trying to make money (I know I am not), but excessive purchases done like this are all about making a killing.  Honestly, LEGO can track this sort of buying and just remove the extra promos from a sale, but they also like the sales.  Amazon has limits on purchases and their system stops me from buying items I have already bought max quantity of.  I believe LEGO is somewhat hypocritical in their policies, but it's their rules.  

[Val-E]

If I was selling a product, as far as I'm concerned, a customer can have as many as they bloody well want and I'll just make more as long as demand was strong so little Johnny will still have his present. I did spend over £30,000 in 2012/2013 and no red flags back then. Since then, I've mostly had better deals off Amazon and good discounts at online retailers. Not the end of the World for me and I'll hopefully get something back for the lost VIP points. The promos are nice but, you can't get the amount worth investing in from the UK. I've spoken to a friend who is a solicitor and they say that LEGO are not obliged by law to honour what is essentially a "bonus scheme" but, will likely reimburse me as a gesture of goodwill and to maintain their reputation. I've emailed a polite note to Customer Services to see if they can offer either a voucher or cheque to cover my loss. I'll not ask for my VIP card back as they can now shove it where the sun don't shine.

If they really p... me off, I'd like to send them a list of all I've sold on eBay and how much profit I made! But, would I do such a thing? ;-)

That´s what I feared, bonus schemes and those that don´t involve real currency are exempt because they are rewards. Now if Amazon banned you and you had 450 quid of Amazon money paid for by you, I wonder if you would have more rights.

Please could you fill us in on what the shop assistant said exactly to justify banning you and cancelling the card. What was the red flag?

Edited October 20, 2015 by valenciaeric

[roxio]

They'll likely refer to this T&C:

6. In the event of membership termination on the basis of misuse, no compensation will be offered for points earned.

So as already stated the best chance of getting any recompense is a goodwill gesture from TLG

[Christmasbricks]

I hate to say it but "WE" created the LEGO ban monster.  There would never have been any bans if "WE" weren't doing what we are doing the way "WE" are doing it.  Now, before anyone takes offense to this, grow up and realize that "WE" is used as the collective and not the individual. 

[Ciglione]

I hate to say it but "WE" created the LEGO ban monster.  There would never have been any bans if "WE" weren't doing what we are doing the way "WE" are doing it.  Now, before anyone takes offense to this, grow up and realize that "WE" is used as the collective and not the individual. 

Well... that is what kids do... searching for the limits and pushing them. Punishment should follow. Natural behaviour.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Ciglione

[brickolodon]

TLG is NOT a charity....so I can call them greedy too in furst place...and yes why they use real limit not allowing ppl buy more? Cause they want me money?

[KShine]

Well... that is what kids do... searching for the limits and pushing them. Punishment should follow. Natural behaviour.

But in this case it's as if mommy has a rule that says that you could only have 1 cookie before dinner.

But Tommy keeps asking for another, and every time she just keeps giving them to him - as many as he wants.

Come dinner time Tommy isn't hungry, and mommy is furious and outraged - So he is banned from the dinner table, for life. 

[Ciglione]

But in this case it's as if mommy has a rule that says that you could only have 1 cookie before dinner.

But Tommy keeps asking for another, and every time she just keeps giving them to him - as many as he wants.

Come dinner time Tommy isn't hungry, and mommy is furious and outraged - So he is banned from the dinner table, for life. 

We, as resellers do not consume the cookies. 

[Val-E]

Yes but the issue as always is the lack of consistency. I have no problem with those abusing the system being punished as they knew they were pushing the envelope and it was a risk they chose to take. What does seem unfair is that TLG goes around banning folk whose purchase histories are by no means excessive (provided they are tellling the truth) whilst letting others with questionable purchasing habits off free.

It reminds me of some of those online games where the mods banned so many paying players that in the end the game died.

[Ed Mack]

I don't see a decrease in bans anytime soon if there is indeed a LEGO "shortage."

[Val-E]

I don't see a decrease in bans anytime soon if there is indeed a LEGO "shortage."

Maybe soon you will have to answer a questionnaire and send a passport photo with likeness approved by a teacher/priest/policeman to be allowed membership of club VIP.

[redghostx]

The only Lego ban that people should be concerned about is the ban from the spouse.  All other bans can be mitigated through other means.

[Jackson]

Unfortunately, buying direct from LEGO to resell also violates their policies of selling to end consumers only. It's not about the hustle, it's about playing the game with integrity. Some will get it (Peyton Manning), others won't (Tom Brady).

I know.  That's why I used the word "if".  I was dreaming up a hypothetical retailer. 

I agree about the hustle part.  The amount of hustle one exerts is irrelevant to this discussion, and I am sorry I brought it up. 

I don't follow football, so I don't get the comparison.  Integrity is too subjective of an idea anyway.

[lodibricks]

Hey, I buy all this stuff for myself.....for about 2 years, then I change my mind.

[conceptmachine]

Still no ban here. I guess I'll stay low key...besides, I'm getting wore out on legos.  I think ill get back into some.vintage RC stuff.  Maybe get a chest full of gold....only takes up a couple feet... and they are Purdy.   US mint isn't so strict on buying limits  

[gregpj]

I know.  That's why I used the word "if".  I was dreaming up a hypothetical retailer. 

I agree about the hustle part.  The amount of hustle one exerts is irrelevant to this discussion, and I am sorry I brought it up. 

I don't follow football, so I don't get the comparison.  Integrity is too subjective of an idea anyway.

I wasn't trying to say hustle wasn't irrelevant... It takes a decent work ethic to find the best deals, to pack items well, to put effort into your listings, etc. I'm not questioning whether you work hard (you might, you might not.... not for me to decide) but even some people who work hard may not play fairly.

Peyton Manning is revered as a nice guy who plays hard and works harder but is fair with everyone and everything. Tom Brady is a great football player, works hard, but got caught cheating and refuses to come clean.

So what I was meaning is that regardless of how hard you work, in my mind it's not worth it if you abuse policies, coupons, discount programs because you've lost your integrity (and yes, that's my own subjective definition).

[conceptmachine]

Any collectors here,  that haven't sold one solitary brick , get banned?  Just curious to know if they actually do research to see who is a seller. 

I realize it's abuse of their system if going over their qty, but if no overages and no selling...what the hell are they banning for?!

On a side note, if I do ever get banned I'll ask if they wanna take back all the sets that I haven't opened for what I paid for them.  I'd have a fat juicy check, the wife would be happy and I'd free up a ton of space.  Win win IMO

Edited October 21, 2015 by conceptmachine

[Achilles]

I believe a few people who haven't sold have gotten banned. Some rumors involve e-mail address matching/user name matching (LEGO Account, ebay account etc) - others simply involve volume purchased and assumption of selling.

[Guest TabbyBoy]

That´s what I feared, bonus schemes and those that don´t involve real currency are exempt because they are rewards. Now if Amazon banned you and you had 450 quid of Amazon money paid for by you, I wonder if you would have more rights.

Please could you fill us in on what the shop assistant said exactly to justify banning you and cancelling the card. What was the red flag?

I didn't record the conversation but, it sort of went like this....

I walked up to the till with an armful of large sets which were well within purchasing limits and handed over my VIP card which was bloated with points to redeem.

 

Assistant - Good evening Sir, may I help you? Somebody's going to have nice presents!

Me - No they are for me, I'm a LEGO collector and a big fan of Star Wars (handed over VIP card).

Assistant - (Checking VIP balance) Wow, you have a lot of points to redeem, let me make a quick call to check that all is in order (gut feeling that I've been rumbled).

Me - No problem, go ahead - I'm a very keen collector, a huge fan of LEGO and I trust all is OK?

Assistant - (5min later) I'm sorry Sir but, we have to request the return of your VIP card as we find your purchase history alarming and against our policy.

Me - What?! I've always purchased within limits online. What about my points then, can I still use them at a later date?

Assistant - No Sir, my regional manager has to stand firm and has instructed me to cancel your membership and destroy this card. It's not my fault and sorry I can't help more.

Me - (I swore at him and wish I hadn't) Tell this boss of yours that he's a nasty arsehoIe and he's not getting away with this, give me his name right now!!!

Assistant - I'm not allowed to give out names, it's not my decision and I'm only doing what I'm told. (my blood was starting to boil)

Me - OK, OK, sorry I swore at you - I'm not going to let this rest and it makes me so angry that LEGO treats it's loyal resellers (nearly said it!) customers like this. Tell your boss that I want his head on a spike!

Assistant - As I said, I can't help you at this time but, please contact Customer Services - Goodbye, Sir.

 

...... I was pissed, on the way out of the shop I shouted to the other customers that Amazon was the best place to get LEGO from and Mega Bloks is actually better!

It's only been a couple of days and I've not had a reply from my email to CS yet. If they have an ounce of decency, I will at least be able to redeem by VIP points and I'll call it a day. I'm still shocked that I had no warning whatsoever and thought this would only happen online, not in a shop which was quite embarrassing. My only regret now is not buying 99x HH and 99x TH when I had the chance! I had a scare last year but, this was a system error and all was OK after an apology from LEGO. Now it's real and you do get banned in the UK.

Guys.... It seems like a high VIP points balance raises the red flag. Don't let it build up like mine did, just spend them one set at a time. I haven't actually bought much over the last year but, I was silly to not spend the points earlier.

 

 

[newbie77]

I didn't record the conversation but, it sort of went like this....

I walked up to the till with an armful of large sets which were well within purchasing limits and handed over my VIP card which was bloated with points to redeem.

 

Assistant - Good evening Sir, may I help you? Somebody's going to have nice presents!

Me - No they are for me, I'm a LEGO collector and a big fan of Star Wars (handed over VIP card).

Assistant - (Checking VIP balance) Wow, you have a lot of points to redeem, let me make a quick call to check that all is in order (gut feeling that I've been rumbled).

Me - No problem, go ahead - I'm a very keen collector, a huge fan of LEGO and I trust all is OK?

Assistant - (5min later) I'm sorry Sir but, we have to request the return of your VIP card as we find your purchase history alarming and against our policy.

Me - What?! I've always purchased within limits online. What about my points then, can I still use them at a later date?

Assistant - No Sir, my regional manager has to stand firm and has instructed me to cancel your membership and destroy this card. It's not my fault and sorry I can't help more.

Me - (I swore at him and wish I hadn't) Tell this boss of yours that he's a nasty arsehoIe and he's not getting away with this, give me his name right now!!!

Assistant - I'm not allowed to give out names, it's not my decision and I'm only doing what I'm told. (my blood was starting to boil)

Me - OK, OK, sorry I swore at you - I'm not going to let this rest and it makes me so angry that LEGO treats it's loyal resellers (nearly said it!) customers like this. Tell your boss that I want his head on a spike!

Assistant - As I said, I can't help you at this time but, please contact Customer Services - Goodbye, Sir.

 

...... I was pissed, on the way out of the shop I shouted to the other customers that Amazon was the best place to get LEGO from and Mega Bloks is actually better!

It's only been a couple of days and I've not had a reply from my email to CS yet. If they have an ounce of decency, I will at least be able to redeem by VIP points and I'll call it a day. I'm still shocked that I had no warning whatsoever and thought this would only happen online, not in a shop which was quite embarrassing. My only regret now is not buying 99x HH and 99x TH when I had the chance! I had a scare last year but, this was a system error and all was OK after an apology from LEGO. Now it's real and you do get banned in the UK.

Guys.... It seems like a high VIP points balance raises the red flag. Don't let it build up like mine did, just spend them one set at a time. I haven't actually bought much over the last year but, I was silly to not spend the points earlier.

 

 

wow. speechless.

how many points did you have? just trying to see how high is it that causes the flag  ... 

[Guest TabbyBoy]

Any collectors here,  that haven't sold one solitary brick , get banned?  Just curious to know if they actually do research to see who is a seller. 

I realize it's abuse of their system if going over their qty, but if no overages and no selling...what the hell are they banning for?!

On a side note, if I do ever get banned I'll ask if they wanna take back all the sets that I haven't opened for what I paid for them.  I'd have a fat juicy check, the wife would be happy and I'd free up a ton of space.  Win win IMO

Good idea. I have buyer's remorse on a huge amout of CITY and Friends sets that I'd love to return.

[conceptmachine]

Oh, what the heck..i just went ahead and redeemed $400 in VIP points.  I wanted to try and make sure I at least TRIED to get them.   Now I'm officially thru with SAH... ill sit back and hope it gets filled by the time it's BIS

[Crustybeaver]

Tabbyboy that's a pretty fierce stance they took with you there, didn't know the happy people at Lego had it in them TBH. Will be interesting to see if all my orders go through tonight, can't say id be fussed though if I do get banned as I rarely use LEGO Shop at Home anymore. Look on the bright side though fella, at least you get a new Brickpicker badge

[Ciglione]

All I can also add to this is to pay cash as much as possible. No matter where you buy your lego.