LEGO Bans - Open Discussion

[TheBrickClique]

As for operating with a single account to stay within the vendor’s technically-enforced limits, I believe this is the current state of things.
 

Cliff notes: you’ll be fine as long as you don’t go on a spending spree at Target.com, and try not to bring attention to your buying patterns by dealing with online customer service for small gripes that can be dealt with in store instead.

Target - the easiest place to get banned based simply on purchase volume online and the most aggressive against resellers in store — employees trained to identify resellers loading up carts for example.  Can still use red card in store after online ban, but using with a new email account will result in repeat ban — start receiving auto cancellations and email about possible issues including payment purchase method.  Some people have bans lifted after a period in timeout. Others indefinitely. The amount of purchases that may identify you as a reseller and get a ban? One data point: I have been unable to purchase online going on 18 months now after two months of $5k purchases on the red card. Same red card still works fine in store.
 

LEGO shop at home — with the purchase limits mechanics implemented a few years ago, it is much more difficult to get the SAH ban hammer. If you exceed a limit on any item based on past purchases of the same item, they will cancel your entire order. Be warned that if they cancel an order with a VIP Rewards purchase, the reward is not automatically credited back to your account. Also, if they cancel an item due to inventory issues, the system still tracks it as qty purchased. Qty purchased in brick and mortar stores that are purchased with VIP accounts are not counted towards SAH limits and and limits in store are done at the individual store’s discretion. If you do have to call customer service to resolve an issue, they do have easy visibility to all of your previous orders and will make comments about you “really liking LEGOs”.  No indication that that is how the ban process starts, but unless you really have an issue that needs CS, might be best to just let the small things go. 
 

Amazon — shop away. Their limits are tracked to the second on a 168-hour FIFO.  Limits apply and are tracked in that window only to items sold and shipped by Amazon.com. Buy as many third party items as you wish. Anecdotal stories of bans for excessive returns, but no clear information on the metrics used. Generally, probably best to save the returns for the really bad boxes.  Creating multiple accounts will get noticed and is the quickest way to get the warning shot emails. 
 

Barnes and Noble — similar to LEGO, has a five qty per item lifetime limit online. Exceed that amount and just that item will be cancelled from the order. No reports of bans. In store purchases do not appear to be tied to online memberships as far as adding to your 5-count quantity.  
 

Walmart — most LEGO are limited to two per order, but they won’t say how often that limit is reset.  Doing a couple of multiple limit orders in the same day has worked.  Doing dozens has resulted in order cancellations of those specific items but no bans that I am aware of. Generally, I have found one limit order per day has never resulted in a cancellation. 
 

ShopDisney — some items have limits but they are selectively enforced. If you put in multiple limit orders at the same time, they might cancel those items. If you space them out, they will be fine. I ordered a dozen castles (limit one per customer) last year and they all went through. Sometimes two in two consecutive days. 
 

Costco — has item limits on some items, but I haven’t seen any on LEGOs. Even with items with limits, possible to space them out without issue.  In store limits are usually “per day”. 
 

Best Buy — unsure on LEGO as I’ve never pushed the limits on them. In the past, I would make 50 purchases at a time of 2-dollar items that had limits and they would all go through.  I have tried to make multiple purchases of Xbox consoles and those were cancelled.  So YMMV. But no reports of bans.

Anyways, those are my observations.

[Ed Mack]

This is a great lesson for all new members, especially if you are a new LEGO VIP member. Please, don't get greedy. A few sets here and there with a couple of free promos mixed in over a week or so is the best way to go.

[Ryan Junior]

Are the bans still mostly from the USA ? 

Edited October 20, 2015 by Ryan Junior

[Grynn]

While these stories are entertaining to me personally, I will chime in again and say that in a sense, we are all in this together.

"I've been banned but I don't care, because blah blah blah" is all fine and good and well for you... but... it's another name on the list, another reason for Lego to keep ramping up investigations against everyone, another example of rampant greed that helps the manufacturer, retailers, AND end customers view anyone reselling Lego in a more negative way. Just like being pushy about multiple coupons or shoving granny aside on black friday, every action has consequences - not just for you, but others "like" you. It may not appear that way, but it is true.

These words are NOT meant for anyone who has been banned, by the way. Those ships have obviously sailed. Instead I just attempt to instill a little more caution and restraint in those who would potentially cross that line in the future. There is currently plenty of room to do well in this game without losing your mind and being BANNED. I mean, when a large corporation won't take your money, think about what that means. Wow.

[Guest TabbyBoy]

Are the bans still mostly from the USA ? 

Not necessarily, I'm in the UK and got banned last week!

Could I be the first in the UK? I got my VIP card cancelled in the Cardiff store when trying to order 1x Slave, 1x Tie & 1x R5 (within limits) using up my remaining VIP points. I got no sets and my £450 in points have been deleted (still showing £0 online today)! I called Trading Standards yesterday and I'm awaiting the result of their findings but, I may have a good case. Disappointment is an understatement and I'm not going to go quietly. Basically, £450 has been stolen from me!

I've not even sold anything on eBay for at least a year so it seems like they can find out somehow unless someone jealous has grassed me up. My eBay and LEGO IDs are totally different unless LEGO contact eBay to obtain details of volume buyers in the past?

About 3 years ago, I'd have deserved the ban when I bought 99x Fire Brigades in one hit that was the limit back then, not now.

 

[Val-E]

Wow. Keep us informed. I´m always curious to know the legal implications of loyalty schemes, especially the ones that offer points rather than currency.

What reason did they give? Did they see your past history going back through to the FB´s?

Edited October 20, 2015 by valenciaeric

[BearCrash]

Not necessarily, I'm in the UK and got banned last week!

Could I be the first in the UK? I got my VIP card cancelled in the Cardiff store when trying to order 1x Slave, 1x Tie & 1x R5 (within limits) using up my remaining VIP points. I got no sets and my £450 in points have been deleted (still showing £0 online today)! I called Trading Standards yesterday and I'm awaiting the result of their findings but, I may have a good case. Disappointment is an understatement and I'm not going to go quietly. Basically, £450 has been stolen from me!

I've not even sold anything on eBay for at least a year so it seems like they can find out somehow unless someone jealous has grassed me up. My eBay and LEGO IDs are totally different unless LEGO contact eBay to obtain details of volume buyers in the past?

About 3 years ago, I'd have deserved the ban when I bought 99x Fire Brigades in one hit that was the limit back then, not now.

Wait, what? Your VIP card got cancelled IN STORE? Wow, that's a new twist.

[Ryan Junior]

Not necessarily, I'm in the UK and got banned last week!

Could I be the first in the UK? I got my VIP card cancelled in the Cardiff store when trying to order 1x Slave, 1x Tie & 1x R5 (within limits) using up my remaining VIP points. I got no sets and my £450 in points have been deleted (still showing £0 online today)! I called Trading Standards yesterday and I'm awaiting the result of their findings but, I may have a good case. Disappointment is an understatement and I'm not going to go quietly. Basically, £450 has been stolen from me!

I've not even sold anything on eBay for at least a year so it seems like they can find out somehow unless someone jealous has grassed me up. My eBay and LEGO IDs are totally different unless LEGO contact eBay to obtain details of volume buyers in the past?

About 3 years ago, I'd have deserved the ban when I bought 99x Fire Brigades in one hit that was the limit back then, not now.

 

So did they send you 99 Fire Brigades ?  Did you sell them all? 

[conceptmachine]

Yeah...that's kinda crappy of them to take your VIP points.  You should offer to at least have them buy back all the sets that earned you the points.  That's what I'd tell them.  Of course...shipping on them.

[Achilles]

You'd figure this would be common sense for a group of adults intelligent enough to try to run their own business, but "Don't draw attention to yourself" seems like a pretty good idea. :shrug: I mean it's too late for the folks who have posted here, but wow, if you're buying $2500 of sets in one day, honestly what do you expect to happen? NORMAL CONSUMERS DON'T DO THAT. (or very very very very few). It's the same stuff with the coupon changes and other changes we see. If people stop trying to use 600 coupons and get 503 promos at every retailer or whatever. these are companies based on analytics and numbers. Stuff is going to come up in their system and they are going to see where they are losing money en masse and change their policies. It's not rocket science. 

 

[terrymc4677]

I appreciate your input, but no one said the email was a processing glitch. I was referring to his order being placed 4 times when he only ordered once. That's a processing glitch.

I misread your post. My bad. Some other posts in this thread seem to come across as people being surprised and in disbelief that they were banned. It should be quite evident as to why when you hear about the orders they placed. Dial it back a bit, people!

[hannibal]

This is a great lesson for all new members, especially if you are a new LEGO VIP member. Please, don't get greedy. A few sets here and there with a couple of free promos mixed in over a week or so is the best way to go.

You couldn't be more right, however there is always another side to the coin. So let's be fair and objective here. With the recent publications on the media about this website and going all public in the need to attract more traffic and consequently more income, as well as positives it had some negative factors too. If before there was some kind of awareness from the store employees (besides the lego ones), now they all know. If before people didn't paying as much attention to who buys what and in what quantities...now there is a big red lamp blinking "i am a greedy lego investor buying all your inventory". Now they all know... and very likely, they're all trained to spot us and be vigilant. 

In addition to this. People's greed is a disease. Those who are new to this stuff and heard money can be made by reselling Lego, are going all out without even thinking. And of course certain individuals are ready to push the limits or go over them in order to get their hands on the profit. The community is much bigger now and naturally the number of people like that is much bigger...

Not necessarily, I'm in the UK and got banned last week!

Could I be the first in the UK? I got my VIP card cancelled in the Cardiff store when trying to order 1x Slave, 1x Tie & 1x R5 (within limits) using up my remaining VIP points. I got no sets and my £450 in points have been deleted (still showing £0 online today)! I called Trading Standards yesterday and I'm awaiting the result of their findings but, I may have a good case. Disappointment is an understatement and I'm not going to go quietly. Basically, £450 has been stolen from me!

I've not even sold anything on eBay for at least a year so it seems like they can find out somehow unless someone jealous has grassed me up. My eBay and LEGO IDs are totally different unless LEGO contact eBay to obtain details of volume buyers in the past?

About 3 years ago, I'd have deserved the ban when I bought 99x Fire Brigades in one hit that was the limit back then, not now.

 

That's quite stupid man. Ok you had £9900 to spend on Fire Brigades, well done! Why go all at once? Ok ...you made £450 worth of points ...which is worth 4.5 Fire Brigages, but in the long run that is not all that much considering the profit you'll be making on those 99 sets...
But you're right. Although begging for trouble, you've kept within the limits and this can be considered as discrimination from their side...and I would do the same thing - contact trading standards and take it seriously if this is your main income and have the time to argue and chase people.... 

[Guest TabbyBoy]

You couldn't be more right, however there is always another side to the coin. So let's be fair and objective here. With the recent publications on the media about this website and going all public in the need to attract more traffic and consequently more income, as well as positives it had some negative factors too. If before there was some kind of awareness from the store employees (besides the lego ones), now they all know. If before people didn't paying as much attention to who buys what and in what quantities...now there is a big red lamp blinking "i am a greedy lego investor buying all your inventory". Now they all know... and very likely, they're all trained to spot us and be vigilant. 

In addition to this. People's greed is a disease. Those who are new to this stuff and heard money can be made by reselling Lego, are going all out without even thinking. And of course certain individuals are ready to push the limits or go over them in order to get their hands on the profit. The community is much bigger now and naturally the number of people like that is much bigger...

That's quite stupid man. Ok you had £9900 to spend on Fire Brigades, well done! Why go all at once? Ok ...you made £450 worth of points ...which is worth 4.5 Fire Brigages, but in the long run that is not all that much considering the profit you'll be making on those 99 sets...
But you're right. Although begging for trouble, you've kept within the limits and this can be considered as discrimination from their side...and I would do the same thing - contact trading standards and take it seriously if this is your main income and have the time to argue and chase people.... 

Yes, I was greedy in the early days. I heard rumours that the maximum buying quantity was going to be reduced from 99 to 5 and a friend at John Lewis said that they can't order many more. This set off alarm bells so I went all in assuming that this "cheap" £99.99 set can only do well. I nearly did the same with the HH but, the maximum quantity dropped to 5 when I had the funds available so I just got 10 (5 then, 5 later). I've already had a £18,500 cash offer for all those FBs and I'm seriously considering it in order to make space for other non-LEGO projects. The odd thing is... I can sign into my VIP account but, zero balance. I'm not going to attempt another online purchase until I hear back. There's been cock-ups in the past and I may just have caught someone on a bad day, time will tell. The guy was a "jobsworth" and wanted to enforce his own limits in store, what an arse!

[redcell]

It's ok to be greedy, but you have to be smart about how you go about quenching that thirst.  When LEGO Shop at Home started banning resellers, I stopped buying inventory from them and it has worked out just fine.  I may miss out on those extra profits that many get from selling the freebies, but it is much easier to buy from those retailers who don't mind selling to resellers and I haven't had any trouble reaching my inventory goals for the sets that I've targeted.

[Stud-u-like]

I was banned around April/May this year, the usual email response from Lego customer services informing me of their policy regarding resellers etc...

Personally I believe it's a bit of a crap shoot as to whether you get the attention of the hammer holder or not, I never ordered more than 5 items at once, never more than 2 orders a week and never made duplicate or sequential orders.

My collecting habit is very much a small time operation and in total last year I spent around £1800 through LEGO Shop at Home.

I feel better now that I've moaned about it though. I appreciate that the work arounds can make the problem worse, but what other reaction to this overkill on policy reinforcement is there?

 

Stu

 

 

 

[botchy123]

" These Terms and Conditions only apply to consumers and do not apply to retailers or business owners/companies. We define retailers or business owners/companies as those who place orders for products which aren’t intended for personal use. "

Taken from Lego's terms and conditions. It was strange to have an order limit of 99 on the website though maybe they brought them in later i'm not sure.

[newbie77]

" These Terms and Conditions only apply to consumers and do not apply to retailers or business owners/companies. We define retailers or business owners/companies as those who place orders for products which aren’t intended for personal use. "

Taken from Lego's terms and conditions. It was strange to have an order limit of 99 on the website though maybe they brought them in later i'm not sure.

LEGO or any company will be happy to take your money for the product that stay/sit on their warehouse. that's what the limit of 99 is there for. 

its their discretion on what to do if you place multiple orders of "99" so walk away once you place the first order of "99".

understand this that you are playing their game so better follow their rule. whatever they appear to be. its their rule. either follow it or be gone

[Grynn]

Did anybody else get the below email? Does this mean I'm banned? I did make a bunch of orders (around 25) on October 13th recently to get lots of holiday trains and 2X VIP but I always stayed within their limits with a few exceptions (ordered 2 Pet shops and 2 Red Fives even though I've ordered 2 of each 6+ months earlier). Other than that though I've mostly stayed under the limits treating them as lifetime limits. For what it's worth, I did receive most all my recent orders though. 

Got banned today. Placed a big order online on the 12th. $1800 worth. I did try to place the orders in $100 increments as to benefit from the free train promo. Next morning there were 16 orders totaling over $2600 (I only placed 10 orders). Very odd as many of the orders were exact duplicates. I didn't order any duplicates. One of them was duplicated 4 times. Some of them had a time stamp less than a minute apart. I couldn't place orders less than a minute apart if I tried and a Lego employee even told me that. Anyway, I've been banned. The Lego employee tried to push the order through.  The account kept saying it was deleted due to a bad billing address. The employee finally told me today (after 3calls to TLG) that I was flagged for reseller suspicion and I could send a email to plead my case. Anyone ever plead their case and get reinstated?

Not necessarily, I'm in the UK and got banned last week!

Could I be the first in the UK? I got my VIP card cancelled in the Cardiff store when trying to order 1x Slave, 1x Tie & 1x R5 (within limits) using up my remaining VIP points. I got no sets and my £450 in points have been deleted (still showing £0 online today)! I called Trading Standards yesterday and I'm awaiting the result of their findings but, I may have a good case. Disappointment is an understatement and I'm not going to go quietly. Basically, £450 has been stolen from me!

I've not even sold anything on eBay for at least a year so it seems like they can find out somehow unless someone jealous has grassed me up. My eBay and LEGO IDs are totally different unless LEGO contact eBay to obtain details of volume buyers in the past?

About 3 years ago, I'd have deserved the ban when I bought 99x Fire Brigades in one hit that was the limit back then, not now.

 

I was banned around April/May this year, the usual email response from Lego customer services informing me of their policy regarding resellers etc...

Personally I believe it's a bit of a crap shoot as to whether you get the attention of the hammer holder or not, I never ordered more than 5 items at once, never more than 2 orders a week and never made duplicate or sequential orders.

My collecting habit is very much a small time operation and in total last year I spent around £1800 through LEGO Shop at Home.

OK Class, raise your hand if you can see the connections here.

There is a reason why casinos hassle people who go on a big rush and win a lot... and guess what? It has nothing to do with ill will toward an honest person having one of the best day of their lives...

[Guest TabbyBoy]

If I was selling a product, as far as I'm concerned, a customer can have as many as they bloody well want and I'll just make more as long as demand was strong so little Johnny will still have his present. I did spend over £30,000 in 2012/2013 and no red flags back then. Since then, I've mostly had better deals off Amazon and good discounts at online retailers. Not the end of the World for me and I'll hopefully get something back for the lost VIP points. The promos are nice but, you can't get the amount worth investing in from the UK. I've spoken to a friend who is a solicitor and they say that LEGO are not obliged by law to honour what is essentially a "bonus scheme" but, will likely reimburse me as a gesture of goodwill and to maintain their reputation. I've emailed a polite note to Customer Services to see if they can offer either a voucher or cheque to cover my loss. I'll not ask for my VIP card back as they can now shove it where the sun don't shine.

If they really p... me off, I'd like to send them a list of all I've sold on eBay and how much profit I made! But, would I do such a thing? ;-)

[Jackson]

Why does the term greedy get thrown around so much?  I sell full-time, and I hustle my sweet little tushy off, and at the end of the year, after taxes, I make a comparatively paltry amount of money.  Greedy?  Give me a break.  Please.

[Ed Mack]

Why does the term greedy get thrown around so much?  I sell full-time, and I hustle my sweet little tushy off, and at the end of the year, after taxes, I make a comparatively paltry amount of money.  Greedy?  Give me a break.  Please.

The term greed was mentioned in reference to the twenty five separate orders (...and similar purchases) in one day.  What else would you call it?  I guess it can be called foolish as well, but I didn't want to offend anyone.  

Edited October 20, 2015 by Ed Mack

[Jackson]

The term greed was mentioned in reference to the twenty five separate orders in one day.  What else would you call it?  I guess it can be called foolish as well, but I didn't want to offend anyone.  

I would agree that it's foolish, since doing 25 orders in a day from LEGO's site will probably result in a ban.  But if it is a hot item and the retailer doesn't ban and doing the separate orders doesn't violate any policies, then doing 25 orders or more is exactly what a reseller needs to do to make money.  Imagine if one were at his desk job, doing paperwork or something, and someone came by every day and was like, "I see you're doing work at your desk to make money.  You're so greedy."

[hannibal]

For once i am on the side of LEGO.

If we're lego collectors and investors...then OK, i guess it's normal to have a few/several/kind-of-multiples of one set and that's fine. Why shouldn't? Who stops you of building a fleed of SW ships or making your living room a proper city out of Modulars. Even if some of that goes for investing to be sold whenever....fine, great!

On the other hand side if you want to go full-time and do real business, then have the guts, open a shop and stop hiding behind the face of an innocent collector or else. In a way what our society is trying to do is have the cake and eat it...

It's the same like purchasing 1000L of fuel and opening a "petrol station" on the layby on the motorway. Not paying for a license, not paying for the property, facility and else..

[Alpinemaps]

I would agree that it's foolish, since doing 25 orders in a day from LEGO's site will probably result in a ban.  But if it is a hot item and the retailer doesn't ban and doing the separate orders doesn't violate any policies, then doing 25 orders or more is exactly what a reseller needs to do to make money.  Imagine if one were at his desk job, doing paperwork or something, and someone came by every day and was like, "I see you're doing work at your desk to make money.  You're so greedy."

But the retailer is banning,and separate orders does violate policy.  It clearly states on the terms for the Train that it's "one per household."

Is Lego foolish for letting people make separate orders and allowing them to get more than one?  Of course.  But, then again, they see 25 separate orders and decide that's abusing their system, and ban.

[Achilles]

I think "Greed" gets thrown around a lot here because unlike a guy doing paperwork at his desk, a venture like Investing in a very non essential luxury toy like LEGO very much is impacted by what other people doing the same thing are doing. I know some people will argue that it doesn't matter what Brickvestor A does, but others strongly disagree. We're all doing this for money. As mentioned, keeping a low profile is kind of important, as with any venture (Real estate, stocks, baseball cards to beanie babies) - there becomes a tipping point. 

Baseball cards are a good example, as during the baseball card boom - More companies came along (Upper Deck, etc) - all the companies started releasing things that were supposed to appeal to collectors (and investors) and sure enough, after a couple years of success, flooding the market, saturation, and the realization that none of these things were really worth anything to anyone resulted in a market crash from which it never really recovered. The same could be said of comic books.

MOST Brickvestors want to make money. The problem is the more people that are in this to make money, the less money there is for everyone. There is a finite amount of consumer dollar. We're competing with retailers, LEGO, and each other. So, when we see things like people flipping $100 sets for $5 profits, it makes things harder for everyone else. When we see people abusing promos/coupons for a very minor short term gain (Let's be honest, most people abusing these things probably gain ultimately, a very small amount of money for their shortsightedness) - it means things will get harder for everyone. Again, when you draw attention to yourself with a GREEDY decision (like buying 25 of whatever exclusive from LEGO - It's Greedy because the goal is to make as much money as possible with as little work in a short amount of time) - It's not looking at the big picture or thinking long term. It's killing the cow instead of milking it. 

There are LOTS of ways to make money in this game. It's not really comparable to a guy doing his day job. If you make 25 orders to make an extra $5-$10 on a promo per order, it's basically being greedy. You could still make money without the promo, but you're trying to maximize. 

Some may argue "Greed is good", but I think a lot of us around here disagree - and see the results of what short term decision making can do to all involved. We all have an interest in keeping he cow alive. A small minority doesn't care about that, they just want to strike while the iron is hot - see an opportunity, and want to hit it as hard and fast as possible. And historically, in collectibles, we all know how that will end.

[KShine]

On the other hand side if you want to go full-time and do real business, then have the guts, open a shop and stop hiding behind the face of an innocent collector or else. In a way what our society is trying to do is have the cake and eat it...

It's the same like purchasing 1000L of fuel and opening a "petrol station" on the layby on the motorway. Not paying for a license, not paying for the property, facility and else..

No - This is really nothing close to being like that.