LEGO Bans - Open Discussion

[TheBrickClique]

As for operating with a single account to stay within the vendor’s technically-enforced limits, I believe this is the current state of things.
 

Cliff notes: you’ll be fine as long as you don’t go on a spending spree at Target.com, and try not to bring attention to your buying patterns by dealing with online customer service for small gripes that can be dealt with in store instead.

Target - the easiest place to get banned based simply on purchase volume online and the most aggressive against resellers in store — employees trained to identify resellers loading up carts for example.  Can still use red card in store after online ban, but using with a new email account will result in repeat ban — start receiving auto cancellations and email about possible issues including payment purchase method.  Some people have bans lifted after a period in timeout. Others indefinitely. The amount of purchases that may identify you as a reseller and get a ban? One data point: I have been unable to purchase online going on 18 months now after two months of $5k purchases on the red card. Same red card still works fine in store.
 

LEGO shop at home — with the purchase limits mechanics implemented a few years ago, it is much more difficult to get the SAH ban hammer. If you exceed a limit on any item based on past purchases of the same item, they will cancel your entire order. Be warned that if they cancel an order with a VIP Rewards purchase, the reward is not automatically credited back to your account. Also, if they cancel an item due to inventory issues, the system still tracks it as qty purchased. Qty purchased in brick and mortar stores that are purchased with VIP accounts are not counted towards SAH limits and and limits in store are done at the individual store’s discretion. If you do have to call customer service to resolve an issue, they do have easy visibility to all of your previous orders and will make comments about you “really liking LEGOs”.  No indication that that is how the ban process starts, but unless you really have an issue that needs CS, might be best to just let the small things go. 
 

Amazon — shop away. Their limits are tracked to the second on a 168-hour FIFO.  Limits apply and are tracked in that window only to items sold and shipped by Amazon.com. Buy as many third party items as you wish. Anecdotal stories of bans for excessive returns, but no clear information on the metrics used. Generally, probably best to save the returns for the really bad boxes.  Creating multiple accounts will get noticed and is the quickest way to get the warning shot emails. 
 

Barnes and Noble — similar to LEGO, has a five qty per item lifetime limit online. Exceed that amount and just that item will be cancelled from the order. No reports of bans. In store purchases do not appear to be tied to online memberships as far as adding to your 5-count quantity.  
 

Walmart — most LEGO are limited to two per order, but they won’t say how often that limit is reset.  Doing a couple of multiple limit orders in the same day has worked.  Doing dozens has resulted in order cancellations of those specific items but no bans that I am aware of. Generally, I have found one limit order per day has never resulted in a cancellation. 
 

ShopDisney — some items have limits but they are selectively enforced. If you put in multiple limit orders at the same time, they might cancel those items. If you space them out, they will be fine. I ordered a dozen castles (limit one per customer) last year and they all went through. Sometimes two in two consecutive days. 
 

Costco — has item limits on some items, but I haven’t seen any on LEGOs. Even with items with limits, possible to space them out without issue.  In store limits are usually “per day”. 
 

Best Buy — unsure on LEGO as I’ve never pushed the limits on them. In the past, I would make 50 purchases at a time of 2-dollar items that had limits and they would all go through.  I have tried to make multiple purchases of Xbox consoles and those were cancelled.  So YMMV. But no reports of bans.

Anyways, those are my observations.

[BearCrash]

 Sandwraith, that is seriously ridonkulousl! Like most have said I believe the same thing. No way it has to do with your purchase history you gave us, they must be looking further back than that. They obviously have a "ban team" that works specifically on this and they must be pulling data from multiple websites, piece it all together, come to a conclusion and make a decision. They could simply cross reference the info in the "what did you buy today" thread with purchases made the same day in their system and start narrowing it down that way. (I know it's not that simple but you guys get the idea). Anyways thanks for the heads up, it's hard not to puff your chest and share stock room pics, purchases made etc. but now I'm going to TRY to be a little more reserved in that regard.

That would imply they did a cost-benefit analysis that told TLG that it's actually worthwhile to employ and pay people to find and ban resellers. How do you even start analyzing something like that?

[speedsausage]

That would imply they did a cost-benefit analysis that told TLG that it's actually worthwhile to employ and pay people to find and ban resellers. How do you even start analyzing something like that?

Honestly I don't know. I would guess they must have done some kind of cost-analysis on whether they should ban "assumed resellers" first of all. Then from there I would assume it would be a specialized team working on project like this. Otherwise who actually makes the decision to ban you? A customer service rep? I hope not. Someone would probably be looking at all the customers personal info. and don't think they would let just employee have access to that. TLG pulls in however many millions/billions of dollars a year, you don't think they can afford a group of people to do investigative work?

[Alucard1982]

Honestly I don't know. I would guess they must have done some kind of cost-analysis on whether they should ban "assumed resellers" first of all. Then from there I would assume it would be a specialized team working on project like this. Otherwise who actually makes the decision to ban you? A customer service rep? I hope not. Someone would probably be looking at all the customers personal info. and don't think they would let just employee have access to that. TLG pulls in however many millions/billions of dollars a year, you don't think they can afford a group of people to do investigative work?

Could it be linked to an algorithm? Because there seems to be no common link between the band. I like to think myself as a silver tongue devil but I hope I don't get the chance to find out...

[speedsausage]

Could it be linked to an algorithm? Because there seems to be no common link between the band. I like to think myself as a silver tongue devil but I hope I don't get the chance to find out...

Yeah sure, why not. I'm just speculating here but if I owned my own company, I don't know if I'd want to trust something like an algorithm to ban my customers. If I'm banishing people from giving me money, I better be damn well sure. I could definitely see an algorithm being used to start flagging people but I'd like to think that the final decision is not made by machine.

[Kevink24]

 

Jul 5 - 1x T-Rex Tracker(still backordered) and $13 worth of PAB pieces.

 

Sandwraith,

I know what it is...it is because you PAB'd and MOC'd the Jurassic Park Jeep and made it look better than the JW Jeep, and now everyone at corporate is totally jelly (jealous - for those of you who don't have children) and out to get you!

Edited July 22, 2015 by Kevink24

[legonoose]

Saw this yesterday which in unsettling.  Lego will have no issue to dig into your business with friends like Ebay.

http://consumerist.com/2015/07/21/ebay-will-send-your-full-name-location-and-phone-number-to-any-auction-bidder-who-asks/

 

 

 

[Sandwraith]

Sandwraith,

I know what it is...it is because you PAB'd and MOC'd the Jurassic Park Jeep and made it look better than the JW Jeep, and now everyone at corporate is totally jelly (jealous - for those of you who don't have children) and out to get you!

Haha - that must be it!

Yeah sure, why not. I'm just speculating here but if I owned my own company, I don't know if I'd want to trust something like an algorithm to ban my customers. If I'm banishing people from giving me money, I better be damn well sure. I could definitely see an algorithm being used to start flagging people but I'd like to think that the final decision is not made by machine.

I can definitely see the flagging algorithm being plausible. They may even have a large backlog of them that takes them months and months to get to. Then they make a decision as to whether they think they are re-sellers or not, because as many have said; my last few months buying patterns do not say "re-seller", however my purchases during say a 2xVIP month certainly would.

I could see constantly buying over limits, too many returns, too many "missing piece" claims, being good flags. Anyways i'm not sure what gave me away, and i doubt i'll ever know. Just unsettling to think of considering i was quite careful and a low-key buyer (at least from LEGO Shop at Home).

[fantomas007]

I really dont know how the TLG ban policy works...

For example, after giving a ban to my account my friend was able to make an order through same account, using different PC. So the same system, which sent me a ban email in the morning, send the "thank you for your order" email in the afternoon. It looks like they have an automatic system, which just limit the computers from banned people, but have some bugs allowing using different PC on same account (or cleaning cookies).

On the other hand, they ban somebody, which doesnt have many orders, but have probably other minus points - maybe ebay account, I dont know... But this should be a result of a ban team, not just automatic system, which cannot automatically search ebay or BL accounts...

[Ciglione]

I think it is not that difficult to track someone. Nowadays all your personal information gets sold to third parties. No matter if you give permission or not. Hence, sites like facebook own your information.

My hunch is... that except for exceeding buying limits Lego also looks at what you are selling. I think they do not like the QFLL's in this world. So if you are flipping currently available sets on Ebay or Amazon for some profit this might trigger Lego to find you and if they do ban you.

I do not think Lego has an issue with someone selling retired sets though.

[tractorboy]

Has anyone from the EU been banned yet?

[BearCrash]

Has anyone from the EU been banned yet?

I think at least two. See a couple of pages back (1 or 2 weeks ago).

[Ciglione]

Has anyone from the EU been banned yet?

Yeah... there are some cases. The banning of people from Lego SaH is not exclusive to the US anymore.

[Guest TabbyBoy]

Has anyone from the EU been banned yet?

No but, I've been told that "Your order exceeds the quantitiy allowed and we have cancelled your order".  I really can't see what the problem is as we often sell for >RRP which doesn't devalue their product at all and in no way competing.

Edited July 22, 2015 by TabbyBoy
Typo

[exciter1]

No but, I've been told that "Your order exceeds the quantitiy allowed and we have cancelled your order".  I really can't see what the problem is as we often sell for >RRP which doesn't devalue their product at all and in no way competing.

Yes we have as of recently, we now have a few, starting here.

http://community.brickpicker.com/topic/9997-lego-bans-open-discussion/?do=findComment&comment=474068

 

Edited July 22, 2015 by exciter1

[fossilrock]

I doubt very much it has anything to do with cookies or the PC you use. It's based on account information located in the Point-of-sales system and all the information attached to that customer ID.  Which means, everything - your shipping and billing address, name, phone, purchase history, and all credit cards associated with that account could be pulled up by an admin in the system.  Also, since the VIP points card is attached to the lego site and stores, even sets you purchased in stores could be pulled back and tied to that account.  Finally, if you are using same name/credit card in the stores, but also have used it online tied to an account, whatever you bought in the stores using that card could be associated with that account, regardless if you used your VIP card or not. 

[Guest TabbyBoy]

I stand corrected, Exciter1. However, I've slowed right down due to work being manic and I've only bought the F40 recently. Hopefully I'm under the radar if I ever have time to pick up again.

Edited July 22, 2015 by TabbyBoy

[fantomas007]

I doubt very much it has anything to do with cookies or the PC you use. It's based on account information located in the Point-of-sales system and all the information attached to that customer ID.  Which means, everything - your shipping and billing address, name, phone, purchase history, and all credit cards associated with that account could be pulled up by an admin in the system.  Also, since the VIP points card is attached to the lego site and stores, even sets you purchased in stores could be pulled back and tied to that account.  Finally, if you are using same name/credit card in the stores, but also have used it online tied to an account, whatever you bought in the stores using that card could be associated with that account, regardless if you used your VIP card or not. 

But why my friend was able to make an order through same SAH account, although my order made through the same account 1 hour before was immediately cancelled?

[tractorboy]

Yeah... there are some cases. The banning of people from Lego SaH is not exclusive to the US anymore.

Right, thanks. That's an interesting development.

[brickology101]

Let's face it. If TLG really wants to catch and stop what they view as improper resellers they can and they will. Bottom line, it is key to reduce dependency on Lego SAH. Buy sets early and elsewhere. Reduce buying from Lego SAH to the minimum. Ok, it happened to all of us: I didn't buy that set and now it is sold out everywhere and only available at Lego SAH for a decent price. In that case, buy the minimum quantity from them. I am sure most of us have good friends or family members. Ask them to buy more set(s) for you. And be content with the "small" quantity you have. If you diversify enough you still have other sets at your quota although you missed the boat on that one set. Don't panic and buy huge quantities at once with Lego SAH,  never. It takes time to move away from buying a lot at Lego SAH but it is worth the effort for the peace of mind it offers.

For those who always wonder how come he or she got banned because he or she always bought below the limit. Common, I think it is clear that when one resells sets one buys a lot more than typical Mr or Mrs Smith who buys sets for his or her kids. If there is an algorithm I think this is where it is focused, comparing your buying pattern against normalcy and subsequently raising a red flag if your buying pattern is abnormal.

[Yellowtot]

Yeah I had a couple of my accounts banned (from the UK) a few months ago, but my other accounts linked to family members/friends and different cards/address's all still work. I was thinking about appealing, coming up with some spiel about why I buy so many Lego sets etc, but in the end couldn't be bothered and only lost about £30 in Lego cash so not the end of the world.

[BrickPick3r]

Im not in US. Can i use my credit card (not US address) to buy lego from Shop@Home, ship to my friend's address in US, and then ask them to send to me?

 

Will this method work? 

[gregpj]

Im not in US. Can i use my credit card (not US address) to buy lego from Shop@Home, ship to my friend's address in US, and then ask them to send to me?

 

Will this method work? 

Probably. As long as the shipping address isn't flagged as a parcel hold or forward service. S@H happily processes the payment first and cancels later based on shipping.

If your credit card charges exchange fees, it would also be better if your friend just pays using their US credit card and you send them the cash direct.

[CrabslayerT]

I'm not sure what way this will work for me as in the Irish Republic, we've only just got post codes but nobody uses them yet. my address is a general area with no house number and there could be over 100 houses in the area. 

[Alpinemaps]

I'm not sure what way this will work for me as in the Irish Republic, we've only just got post codes but nobody uses them yet. my address is a general area with no house number and there could be over 100 houses in the area. 

Can I just say that sounds like an incredible place to live? I can't even wrap my head around that.

[ravenb99]

At least if you get banned now there are cool giphy's to go with it