LEGO Bans - Open Discussion

[TheBrickClique]

As for operating with a single account to stay within the vendor’s technically-enforced limits, I believe this is the current state of things.
 

Cliff notes: you’ll be fine as long as you don’t go on a spending spree at Target.com, and try not to bring attention to your buying patterns by dealing with online customer service for small gripes that can be dealt with in store instead.

Target - the easiest place to get banned based simply on purchase volume online and the most aggressive against resellers in store — employees trained to identify resellers loading up carts for example.  Can still use red card in store after online ban, but using with a new email account will result in repeat ban — start receiving auto cancellations and email about possible issues including payment purchase method.  Some people have bans lifted after a period in timeout. Others indefinitely. The amount of purchases that may identify you as a reseller and get a ban? One data point: I have been unable to purchase online going on 18 months now after two months of $5k purchases on the red card. Same red card still works fine in store.
 

LEGO shop at home — with the purchase limits mechanics implemented a few years ago, it is much more difficult to get the SAH ban hammer. If you exceed a limit on any item based on past purchases of the same item, they will cancel your entire order. Be warned that if they cancel an order with a VIP Rewards purchase, the reward is not automatically credited back to your account. Also, if they cancel an item due to inventory issues, the system still tracks it as qty purchased. Qty purchased in brick and mortar stores that are purchased with VIP accounts are not counted towards SAH limits and and limits in store are done at the individual store’s discretion. If you do have to call customer service to resolve an issue, they do have easy visibility to all of your previous orders and will make comments about you “really liking LEGOs”.  No indication that that is how the ban process starts, but unless you really have an issue that needs CS, might be best to just let the small things go. 
 

Amazon — shop away. Their limits are tracked to the second on a 168-hour FIFO.  Limits apply and are tracked in that window only to items sold and shipped by Amazon.com. Buy as many third party items as you wish. Anecdotal stories of bans for excessive returns, but no clear information on the metrics used. Generally, probably best to save the returns for the really bad boxes.  Creating multiple accounts will get noticed and is the quickest way to get the warning shot emails. 
 

Barnes and Noble — similar to LEGO, has a five qty per item lifetime limit online. Exceed that amount and just that item will be cancelled from the order. No reports of bans. In store purchases do not appear to be tied to online memberships as far as adding to your 5-count quantity.  
 

Walmart — most LEGO are limited to two per order, but they won’t say how often that limit is reset.  Doing a couple of multiple limit orders in the same day has worked.  Doing dozens has resulted in order cancellations of those specific items but no bans that I am aware of. Generally, I have found one limit order per day has never resulted in a cancellation. 
 

ShopDisney — some items have limits but they are selectively enforced. If you put in multiple limit orders at the same time, they might cancel those items. If you space them out, they will be fine. I ordered a dozen castles (limit one per customer) last year and they all went through. Sometimes two in two consecutive days. 
 

Costco — has item limits on some items, but I haven’t seen any on LEGOs. Even with items with limits, possible to space them out without issue.  In store limits are usually “per day”. 
 

Best Buy — unsure on LEGO as I’ve never pushed the limits on them. In the past, I would make 50 purchases at a time of 2-dollar items that had limits and they would all go through.  I have tried to make multiple purchases of Xbox consoles and those were cancelled.  So YMMV. But no reports of bans.

Anyways, those are my observations.

[Ed Mack]

Isn't there also a requirement around the % of your business that has to come from non-Lego sales?  Also, there are certainly non-B&M retailers with wholesale accounts (e.g., Entertainment Earth) and I've never been clear on how those types of accounts work, but I am assuming that you have to be doing something very different to get one.

When I spoke to LEGO, they seemed willing to work with people...even letting you sell your old retired sets at the store. There might be cases where a large online store can get product if LEGO is not their sole product and they have been established for years. Otherwise, they will come to investigate your store and you need to have it up and running before they would release product to you. When they said 2 other major toy brands must be in the store, I would imagine that LEGO needs to remain about a third of total stock. They will not sell you product at wholesale prices to sell on eBay if you do not meet these basic rules. Mom and Pop toy stores are what they want, not Mom and Pop LEGO stores.

[redcell]

When I spoke to LEGO, they seemed willing to work with people...even letting you sell your old retired sets at the store. There might be cases where a large online store can get product if LEGO is not their sole product and they have been established for years. Otherwise, they will come to investigate your store and you need to have it up and running before they would release product to you. When they said 2 other major toy brands must be in the store, I would imagine that LEGO needs to remain about a third of total stock. They will not sell you product at wholesale prices to sell on eBay if you do not meet these basic rules. Mom and Pop toy stores are what they want, not Mom and Pop LEGO stores.

One thing I've been curious about is whether their normal retailer agreements place any restrictions on the ability of mom and pop shops to sell product that is bought wholesale for a brick and mortar on the internet.

[Ed Mack]

One thing I've been curious about is whether their normal retailer agreements place any restrictions on the ability of mom and pop shops to sell product that is bought wholesale for a brick and mortar on the internet.

There are others that could answer this better than I, but from what people have told me orders are made infrequently and placing a large order can leave you will stock you cannot sell. Plus you cannot just choose what you want. You have to buy a wide range of themes.

[inversion]

In Europe we have the franchise store system. At least in Hungary we don't have official LEGO stores, but the franchise stores are fully furnished by LEGO, have monthly builds, statues, carry all exclusives and have a pick-a-brick wall. Only difference is they don't have VIP system and most promos are missing. On the other hand they tend to have much better sales and games where you can win sets. Don't know what are the requirements to open one of those though.

http://www.legostore.hu/ , no English, but you can see the pics.

[Ed Mack]

In Europe we have the franchise store system. At least in Hungary we don't have official LEGO stores, but the franchise stores are fully furnished by LEGO, have monthly builds, statues, carry all exclusives and have a pick-a-brick wall. Only difference is they don't have VIP system and most promos are missing. On the other hand they tend to have much better sales and games where you can win sets. Don't know what are the requirements to open one of those though.

http://www.legostore.hu/ , no English, but you can see the pics.

Yes, I was referring to the U.S. Europe is a different story. I have bought several displays from European stores.

[fossilrock]

The thing that baffles me the most about LEGO SAH bans is the fact that they offer limits of say 5 on Ewok Village. What "regular" LEGO fan/customer is buying 5 of a set like that? I mean, that has to set of a huge red flag, but if they don't want to sell to resellers, why offers limit numbers like that?

There are some that build stunning mocs and sometimes certain sets can contain a wide variety of parts to make their moc vision possible.  All those brown and tan pieces in EV are great for building natural looking environments.  

[jay4e]

Isn't there also a requirement around the % of your business that has to come from non-Lego sales?  Also, there are certainly non-B&M retailers with wholesale accounts (e.g., Entertainment Earth) and I've never been clear on how those types of accounts work, but I am assuming that you have to be doing something very different to get one.

TLG has relaxed their restrictions quite a bit over the past 10-15 years.  Back then they would not allow online sales at all, and pricing restrictions were enforced on all sets.  TLG was supporting the small mom and pop stores in the fight against the likes of amazon and online retailers.  Now I  the smaller stores have to abide by the standard rules (B&M stores, 2+ other products, min buying, range themes, small margins, etc), but the vetting process has more flexibility and they make exceptions for sites like amazon, yoyo, entertainment earth and think geek.  plus give major discounts to the massive retailers.  I do not think you could walk in and say I want to open up a online only store. but for well established sites, exceptions are made.

I do think legos restrictions really do hurt the small mom and pop stores quite a bit, and many of the small high end toy stores (in the us) dont even carry lego these days.  Further these restrictions actually run counter to wanting to fight off resellers buying through retail channels.  Its more lucrative to buy stock off the shelves at TRU, than it is through LEGO wholesale channels.

Not only has lego reversed direction from favoring the small mom and pops, to supporting the massive chains, but in doing so they have encouraged the quick flipping market.

Edited July 2, 2015 by jay4e

[snt0925]

 

 

what were you ordering and how many?

I ordered 2 sets Pet Shop this time...

Usually I ordered few sets and send back to Hong Kong, since the price in Hong Kong is expensive. For example, the Pet Shop in HK is around USD230 while the original price is USD150 only. Usually i will gather 3-4 friends order together to share the shipping cost. But if Lego banned my account i don't know when can i buy Lego...@@

Edited July 5, 2015 by snt0925

[fantomas007]

Today a ban hammer hit me :-(

I have several accounts, with different names and credit cards. Weak part was the shipping address - since TLG is unable to delivery the sets to my country, I have had to use 2 friends address in Austria. Till today it was not a problem - I have been able to order several orders from different accounts, I could order more sets than the limit was, etc. Sometimes happen that the system cancelled some of my orders (I thought that due the fact that some credit cards had same names). But today they cancelled my orders from every account, which I tried, and just after 5 minutes. I have tried several accounts with different credit cards and bank accounts, but everything was cancelled. Even the new account with new name and bank account was cancelled! Of course, I couldnt change the shipping address, I have just replaced my friends name to his wife living also there - but no success.

What is your experience? What can I do? Is it a solution, if i change my friends address to his office address? I have worries that TLG has a system of ban, where they put to the blockage all names, credit cards, addresses related to the banned account. But it is a nonsens - what if somebody from my country establish a new account in good faith and order some sets just for him, and just use the same delivery address? What a stupid system, instead of expanding to new countries, the TLG is limiting people from these countries from ordering the sets.

Please advise me what to do. I cannot imagine how could they identify me if I use other name, bank account and shipping address, but I dont want to make toxic new addresses, bank accounts, etc., so I would welcome your advices. The most horrible thing what can happen is if they ban also my personal purchases in lego stores in Austria (at this moment it looks like that I can use my vip card in the store, but nobody knows what can happen in future and how their system works).

[MartinP]

Today a ban hammer hit me :-(

I have several accounts, with different names and credit cards. Weak part was the shipping address - since TLG is unable to delivery the sets to my country, I have had to use 2 friends address in Austria. Till today it was not a problem - I have been able to order several orders from different accounts, I could order more sets than the limit was, etc. Sometimes happen that the system cancelled some of my orders (I thought that due the fact that some credit cards had same names). But today they cancelled my orders from every account, which I tried, and just after 5 minutes. I have tried several accounts with different credit cards and bank accounts, but everything was cancelled. Even the new account with new name and bank account was cancelled! Of course, I couldnt change the shipping address, I have just replaced my friends name to his wife living also there - but no success.

What is your experience? What can I do? Is it a solution, if i change my friends address to his office address? I have worries that TLG has a system of ban, where they put to the blockage all names, credit cards, addresses related to the banned account. But it is a nonsens - what if somebody from my country establish a new account in good faith and order some sets just for him, and just use the same delivery address? What a stupid system, instead of expanding to new countries, the TLG is limiting people from these countries from ordering the sets.

Please advise me what to do. I cannot imagine how could they identify me if I use other name, bank account and shipping address, but I dont want to make toxic new addresses, bank accounts, etc., so I would welcome your advices. The most horrible thing what can happen is if they ban also my personal purchases in lego stores in Austria (at this moment it looks like that I can use my vip card in the store, but nobody knows what can happen in future and how their system works).

Sorry to hear that you got ban hammered today. I'm not sure that there is anything you could do to unban yourself after what you have tried already. 

[TLKC]

They could identify u with your ip? Ate u using a proxy?

[Ed Mack]

Another European ban.

[Ciglione]

They could identify u with your ip? Ate u using a proxy?

Exactly. If you use the same internet connection they can track you through your IP. Very clever but also common sense. 

I already had the feeling the war on the reseller has come to Europe. Also some stores are imposing quantity limits now. Probably instructed by lego. 

Times will change and obtaining your desired investment quantities will become a game of its own. 

[pete411]

I welcome this. It gives us small timers a chance to swim with the big fish. Of course, the truly dedicated will get their hoard regardless of being able to buy through SAH.

[Val-E]

Yup Cig has it - as with online games or tv with geographic limits. Try with IP shield software.

[Frank Brickowski]

I guess the first thing European LEGO Shop at Home users should keep in mind from now on is to avoid amassing VIP points over months. Instead you should always use them as soon as possible, so IF you get banned, at least your rewards don't vanish, too.

[Majkl]

You have to establish new account with new e-mail, phone, card, adress and name. Probably even IP adress. I created new account with all different from previous one (just with my name) and I got banned after first small order.

Luckily a I have just about 125 CZK bonus on my previous VIP account.

[pete411]

Today a ban hammer hit me :-(

I have several accounts, with different names and credit cards. Weak part was the shipping address - since TLG is unable to delivery the sets to my country, I have had to use 2 friends address in Austria. Till today it was not a problem - I have been able to order several orders from different accounts, I could order more sets than the limit was, etc. Sometimes happen that the system cancelled some of my orders (I thought that due the fact that some credit cards had same names). But today they cancelled my orders from every account, which I tried, and just after 5 minutes. I have tried several accounts with different credit cards and bank accounts, but everything was cancelled. Even the new account with new name and bank account was cancelled! Of course, I couldnt change the shipping address, I have just replaced my friends name to his wife living also there - but no success.

What is your experience? What can I do? Is it a solution, if i change my friends address to his office address? I have worries that TLG has a system of ban, where they put to the blockage all names, credit cards, addresses related to the banned account. But it is a nonsens - what if somebody from my country establish a new account in good faith and order some sets just for him, and just use the same delivery address? What a stupid system, instead of expanding to new countries, the TLG is limiting people from these countries from ordering the sets.

Please advise me what to do. I cannot imagine how could they identify me if I use other name, bank account and shipping address, but I dont want to make toxic new addresses, bank accounts, etc., so I would welcome your advices. The most horrible thing what can happen is if they ban also my personal purchases in lego stores in Austria (at this moment it looks like that I can use my vip card in the store, but nobody knows what can happen in future and how their system works).

To help our fellow European BPer friends out, can you share a few things about your buying habits at SAH? Did you just barely go over the limits or was it something severe like ordering 12 Pet Shops in a single order? I think we're all wondering how strict Lego is being during this recent wave of bans.

[Majkl]

For me it was second time when I ordered over limit. But every time it was order of small sets about 300 CZK (11 EUR). I was ordering usually about once or twice a month (PaB and sets).

[fantomas007]

To help our fellow European BPer friends out, can you share a few things about your buying habits at SAH? Did you just barely go over the limits or was it something severe like ordering 12 Pet Shops in a single order? I think we're all wondering how strict Lego is being during this recent wave of bans.

I have around 15 lego accounts, 8 credit cards and 2 shipping addresses.

I have never ordered 10 PS through 1 account. Usually I have ordered 1 big set via 1 account, together 8-10 sets, half of them modulars and then other exclusives, or I bought 5 ideas set x 5 accounts, or 10 seasonal mini sets via 5 accounts, etc. Very often  i divided orders in order to get more bonus sets. I was making orders only during double points months, black Friday and january sales. I tried to be within limits, only sometimes i ordered more sets with 1 credit card, sometimes SAH cancelled the order, but it looked like they are just joining accounts with same credit cards. Plus i made some purchases in lego stores. Plus  my friend made some orders. Together it could be around 30 modulars, 30 other exclusives, 30 ideas, 60 small sets per year.

The weak point is that i cannot use more shipping addresses, since my country is out of delivery map of SAH. Thats also reason why i am buying more sets, since we have many Afols but TLG is so stupid and ignore this market.

Regarding IP address - last time I tried to use IP address changer software while opening the new account, but wasnt succesful. Interesting is that my friend was able to make an order via the account, which doesnt allow me to make orders - so probably there is a software system able to detect me although using IP changer software...

[Ciglione]

 

I have around 15 lego accounts, 8 credit cards and 2 shipping addresses.

I have never ordered 10 PS through 1 account. Usually I have ordered 1 big set via 1 account, together 8-10 sets, half of them modulars and then other exclusives, or I bought 5 ideas set x 5 accounts, or 10 seasonal mini sets via 5 accounts, etc. Very often  i divided orders in order to get more bonus sets. I was making orders only during double points months, black Friday and january sales. I tried to be within limits, only sometimes i ordered more sets with 1 credit card, sometimes SAH cancelled the order, but it looked like they are just joining accounts with same credit cards. Plus i made some purchases in lego stores. Plus  my friend made some orders. Together it could be around 30 modulars, 30 other exclusives, 30 ideas, 60 small sets per year.

The weak point is that i cannot use more shipping addresses, since my country is out of delivery map of SAH. Thats also reason why i am buying more sets, since we have many Afols but TLG is so stupid and ignore this market.

Regarding IP address - last time I tried to use IP address changer software while opening the new account, but wasnt succesful. Interesting is that my friend was able to make an order via the account, which doesnt allow me to make orders - so probably there is a software system able to detect me although using IP changer software...

Around 15 accounts!?

I am sorry, but that is practically begging Lego to ban you. 

Edited July 11, 2015 by Ciglione

[newbie77]

 

I have around 15 lego accounts, 8 credit cards and 2 shipping addresses.

I have never ordered 10 PS through 1 account. Usually I have ordered 1 big set via 1 account, together 8-10 sets, half of them modulars and then other exclusives, or I bought 5 ideas set x 5 accounts, or 10 seasonal mini sets via 5 accounts, etc. Very often  i divided orders in order to get more bonus sets. I was making orders only during double points months, black Friday and january sales. I tried to be within limits, only sometimes i ordered more sets with 1 credit card, sometimes SAH cancelled the order, but it looked like they are just joining accounts with same credit cards. Plus i made some purchases in lego stores. Plus  my friend made some orders. Together it could be around 30 modulars, 30 other exclusives, 30 ideas, 60 small sets per year.

The weak point is that i cannot use more shipping addresses, since my country is out of delivery map of SAH. Thats also reason why i am buying more sets, since we have many Afols but TLG is so stupid and ignore this market.

Regarding IP address - last time I tried to use IP address changer software while opening the new account, but wasnt succesful. Interesting is that my friend was able to make an order via the account, which doesnt allow me to make orders - so probably there is a software system able to detect me although using IP changer software...

i believe its not the shipping address that gave you away, if it was then it would have been done long before. its the session cookies on the browser that caused this:

no offense but you do realize that when you visit lego.com and sign in there is session cookies and all sort of cookies they are pushing out. which means that if you are using same browser to place order then if by any chance one order gets automatically cancelled ; then each and every subsequent order placed from that browser (without cleaning/expiring cookies) will get cancelled same account or different account it won't matter (changing ip is not going to do squat).

only way to get around this is to get those account unlocked so that automatic cancellation doesn't happen. once you are past that try to have some discipline while accessing/placing orders from those accounts for now.

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2015 by newbie77

[MartinP]

no offense but you do realize that when you visit lego.com and sign in there is session cookies and all sort of cookies they are pushing out. which means that if you are using same browser to place order then if by any chance one order gets automatically cancelled ; then each and every subsequent order placed from that browser (without cleaning/expiring cookies) will get cancelled same account or different account it won't matter (changing ip is not going to do squat).

Even if you did clean out all the cookies on your browsers that you purchased from, Lego still has records that you went to Lego.com and purchased something, and clearing cookies wouldn't do anything. Lego is making sure that large resellers don't purchase sets from them directly.

[BrickSamurai]

Around 15 accounts!?

I am sorry, but that is practically begging Lego to ban you. 

 

I agree this is just asking for TLG to ban you completely. I think it's be said enough here at BPs and that is following TLG policies is best practices.

There are more than a few ways to accumulate inventory if that's what you're doing without any raising any flags with TLG

 

Edited July 16, 2015 by BrickSamurai

[Sandwraith]

Welp, surprisingly it finally happened. Got the ban hammer from LEGO Shop at Home last night. 

I don't consider myself a big time investor, and i really don't purchase all that much from LEGO Shop at Home, so it's a bit of a surprise really. I got the reseller scum e-mail last night, and i'm not even going to bother fighting it because it is true after-all haha.

My last 5 purchases for anyone interested spread out over 2 month were:

May 14 - $8 worth of PAB pieces.

Jul 5 - 1x T-Rex Tracker(still backordered) and $13 worth of PAB pieces.

July 13 - Death Star (first ever purchased from LEGO Shop at Home during the call to check frenzy).

July 15 - Ferrari.

July 20 - Indom rex - boom banhammer!

Never purchased stupid massive amounts of anything, but oh well. I won't be losing sleep over it as my partners' account is still live (checked this am, orders are not getting cancelled). I have $20 in VIP to burn on my main account and i'll stop by my local store on the way home one day and use em (from what I've heard they are still usable in store, if not then i'm glad i never adopted the "hoard all VIP points forever" strategy :P).

I'm not going to claim myself innocent either, i'm sure there was something that flagged my account, i just don't know what it was to warn others about it or not make the same mistake on my partners' account.

Anyways just figured i'd share my experience!

Edited July 21, 2015 by Sandwraithx157