Opinions on 9V vs Power Functions for trains

[ufema]

This post is strictly because I'm curious. Why did Lego do off with 9V trains? Was it a safety issue with kids and plugging something in? Will they go back to 9V?

[jaisonline]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_Trains we have plenty of threads about 9Vs on here and i found plenty on google. do a search. at the very least, search for train-related posts under my username. good luck in your decision making. in any option, it is costly...

[redeemed763]

They gave it up because it cost too much and there wasn't a large enough fanbase. They won't ever be going back to 9v. Thank god they got rid of RC trains, but the PF trains are still not as nice as the old 9v. I have been debating going with 9v quite a bit myself, but my biggest hiccup that I cannot get away from is that the 9v is a dead product, if I invest in it, there is no support for the format. Then again, there is no guarantee that PF will stay around either but thankfully it is tied to many technic and mindstorms, there is less risk of PF becoming a dead format.

[kerrmando]

I vastly prefer 9V over RC and PF, I think its mainly because I played with 9V growing up though.

[BricksR4kids]

Being a huge train fan and collector I've recently thought about switching completely over to rc and power functions . With value on the 9v, cost per track I could get even more newer track 8867. I used 9v quite a bit and it does get tiring when a track section comes undone, or a loose connection. Maybe I could use the extra cash for a few sets..? Anyone think this is a bad idea? Are pf functions faster than the 9v with multiple motors? Anyone power a maersk with a 9v and pf to see the difference?

[mcortez]

I've got a bit of 9V system stuff, track, train motors (at least one NISB Build my own train motor), controllers, etc -- things I bought for personal use over the years and one or two sets that I think may be complete that I got out of some bulk CL lots.  I don't have an accurate accounting at the moment, as my personal collection of 9V stuff is actually packed up with my Christmas decorations (used to set it up around the tree every year.)

 

I've recently been thinking about dedicating some space in the house to building a LEGO layout -- had been intending to do an On30 scale model railroad there, but after diving into doing a little LEGO investing/reselling I find I'm leaning towards just using LEGO.

 

I know at one time there was quite a bit of demand for 9v system products and a quick poke around ebay seems to indicate there is still a good bit of interest.  Right now I'm trying to decide if I should go 9v or all plastic power functions for my layout -- I've also toyed with mixing in mindstorms stuff for automation control -- I know there is at least one third party company that looks like they're going to produce new, compatible track for both systems https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/memodels/me-models-railway-system

 

What do you all think?  

 

If I liquidated my 9v system parts, would I be able to get a larger amount of the new all plastic power function equivalents?

 

If I did decide to sell off my 9v stuff, what would be the best route?  Break it down into small lots of track, motors, controllers etc -- or to sell in larger lots (and complete sets when able?)

 

What's the best venue for selling train gear?  Bricklink, ebay, try to contact a local train LUG?

 

Are there any big 9v train fans here on BP that happen to have an inventory of power function train sets they would be interested in trading?

[jaisonline]

not sure if you made up your mind. 

 

if you want far easier and faster train modifications and no worries about battery life or extensive design modifications, go with 9v and don't look back.  additionally, there are companies like the one at philly brickfest (need to look-up their name) who sell diff color 9v tracks. i want brown and they sell it.

 

sealed lego boxes of 9v curved track sell for $14-$20 each.  straight track is far more pricey but used ones go for about $2-$3 each the last time i checked on bricklink.  i paid $50 for a new train motor (it's my back-up) and a new speed regulator w/ power adapter was $13 or so.

 

http://www.bricklink.com/browseList.asp?itemType=P&catString=122&q=&sortBy=Y&sortAsc=D

 

 

i do own both types.  my PF parts are still in the box. just too much going on (many people like that).  my son and i like building the set and spend 5 mins max making it run.  it took us 7 mins to modify the Toy Story Western Train (would have been done sooner if i didn't make a few extra mods to keep it from flying off the track in turns).  doing that train (and others) with PF is so much more involved.

[Migration]

The main advantage of selling off your 9v stuff and updating it with new is that Lego is still producing the new power functions, and should continue to do so for a while, when I was looking into adding power to Costitution Chase I went with new parts ordered from Lego for that reason. Hopefully as I expand and add more trains I should still be able to get what I need directly from Lego for the foreseeable future. I also like that a single remote can control multiple motors (up to 8 I think). I know a ton of people use 9v, and it is in many ways easier, but there is a finite supply of it and it is pricey. As I was starting from scratch it was much more cost effective to go with new. I would sell and upgrade.

[Stevenplays]

Well, it depends on what you want. The pros of 9V are as followed

1. It's a snap when it comes to motorizing your train
2. Similar to model trains
3. Can use 9V motor with current items such as a battery box

Now the cons are

1. New track/motors are expensive, very very pricy.
2. If your motor breaks, you're out of luck, can't get a replacement from LEGO

As for Power functions, the pros are

1. Track/Motors are very inexpensive compared to 9V
2. Parts can easily be replaced if faulty
3. Can run on 9V track
4. Can run more than one train on the same line of track while also having speed control for both
5. (not sure if it should be counted, but stating it anyway) Track can be converted to work with 9V trains with copper tape

Cons are

1. Can be troublesome when trying to motorize non-motorized trains, not a smooth conversion
2. Not always able to motorize every train while keeping it nearly 100% original
3. Flexible track is garbage and comes with most train/train track related sets, but seems to be phasing out, thought it was worth a mention

All and all, I'ld recommend PF, very easy to purchase and locate, and the motors are faster than 9V motors. But if you want to keep your 9V, just remember that if your motors go out, it's an easy conversion to PF and you can still use the same track.

[wilandirene]

I love my 9V setup.  That being said, I haven't given PF a try yet.  Luckily I've picked up a number of used lots, so I have 4 9V engines/transformers and quite a bit of track just in case something breaks or wears out. 

 

It's true that 9V tracks and engines are extremely expensive relative to PF though.

[mcortez]

not sure if you made up your mind. 

 

if you want far easier and faster train modifications and no worries about battery life or extensive design modifications, go with 9v and don't look back.  additionally, there are companies like the one at philly brickfest (need to look-up their name) who sell diff color 9v tracks. i want brown and they sell it.

 

Haven't yet made a firm decision.  When I was originally working with the 9v stuff, I'd actually considered modifying to use DCC (I already own a digitrax system I was going to use with my On30 stuff) -- using the track to deliver power is really convenient.

 

On the other hand, lack of anything resembling flex track for the 9v system is a little limiting -- although I did consider using O scale model flex track and 3D printing  sleepers that were LEGO compatible.  

 

The PF stuff has those flex track bits which is somewhat enticing, and if I went over to the dark side enlightenment track out of china is dirt cheap.

 

I wonder if that was ME Models @ Philly, the same people running the kickstarter I linked to.  I think they've already got some basic track available for sale.

[jaisonline]

Haven't yet made a firm decision.  When I was originally working with the 9v stuff, I'd actually considered modifying to use DCC (I already own a digitrax system I was going to use with my On30 stuff) -- using the track to deliver power is really convenient.

 

On the other hand, lack of anything resembling flex track for the 9v system is a little limiting -- although I did consider using O scale model flex track and 3D printing  sleepers that were LEGO compatible.  

 

The PF stuff has those flex track bits which is somewhat enticing, and if I went over to the dark side enlightenment track out of china is dirt cheap.

 

I wonder if that was ME Models @ Philly, the same people running the kickstarter I linked to.  I think they've already got some basic track available for sale.

Yup, that's them. ME Models

[mcortez]

Wish ME Models would update their website -- they apparently have product available for sale (I'm assuming you actually saw product at their table @ philly, I'm on the wrong coast to attend) -- but their website only mentions the up-coming kick starter with nothing listed as currently available.

 

Many of these pros/cons are the ones that I keep tossing around -- right now the biggest to me seem to be:

 

9v -- Acquiring new track & motors vs ease of actually running a real layout (that always on power and no need for clunky battery packs is nice)

 

PF -- Inexpensive parts & flex track versus large/clunky power and control

 

I have to admit I'm much more interested in a steam era layout, probably turn of the century give or take a decade or two, a LEGO version of John Allen's Gorre and Daphetid Railroad would be awesome (although impractical based on my budget and space.)   And it's much harder to hide PF components into steam era equipment, especially with the engines and cars used in earlier smaller mining or lumber railroads...

 

Hmmm, maybe the question I should be asking is, anyone have a bunch of 9v stuff they'd be interested in trading for a Persian Restaurant or PF set or two?  lol

[jaisonline]

I've read mixed comments about flex track. Biggest complaint was with train derailment if the curves are more rounded (the main point of using flex) then fixed curved track.

I would like to hear others' feedback.

[gregpj]

I've read mixed comments about flex track. Biggest complaint was with train derailment if the curves are more rounded (the main point of using flex) then fixed curved track.

I would like to hear others' feedback.

The flex track generally sucks for permanent displays other than being able to make odd lengths of straight track. I used three pieces of flex track to line up my track around a Y switching piece and some other curves but other than that I just bought extra straight and curved tracks.

And my biggest complaint ... No stud connectors! You can't secure it in place like the regular ones. If you have kids, it's not a good thing. Too easy for them to break and move.

Sent from my iPad using Brickpicker

[jaisonline]

The flex track generally sucks for permanent displays other than being able to make odd lengths of straight track. I used three pieces of flex track to line up my track around a Y switching piece and some other curves but other than that I just bought extra straight and curved tracks.

And my biggest complaint ... No stud connectors! You can't secure it in place like the regular ones. If you have kids, it's not a good thing. Too easy for them to break and move.

Sent from my iPad using Brickpicker

Yeah, comments and reviews like your's about the track made me switch my mind from PF to 12V before I had enough 12v track. Then they discontinued straight track (although the LR train later surprisedly had it).

I have so much PF devices and track still unopened. Maybe one of these days, I'll get into PF after it retires like my entry into 12v. Ha

Sent from an iPhone using the Brickpicker app

[gregpj]

We've never had anything but PF so I don't know any better.

I should add after looking at my track that it's the underside stud connectors - or lack thereof - that bugs me the most. At least with the curved ones and a well placed 1x2 modified plate with the center stud you can fix them in place. Probably not so critical for an AFOL but it is when your kids are 4 and 7.

Sent from my iPod touch using Brickpicker

[mcortez]

Guess I'm leaning back towards going with 9v systems...  Guess I need to plan out my layout and figure out just how much track I'd need to hunt down.

 

Thanks for all the input!

[jaisonline]

Guess I'm leaning back towards going with 9v systems...  Guess I need to plan out my layout and figure out just how much track I'd need to hunt down.

 

Thanks for all the input!

 

on my son's smallish table, we went with 4 straight and 16 curves.  2 straights each on the north and south track. 

 

wish i had the space for 1 or 2 straights on the east and west track.

[IMDeus]

I have decided to build a lego city. What kind of track should I use? the RC or the 9v? All I have now is two RC trains but I will need a bunch of track. Do most people wind up going 9v in case they decide to collect older ones? What is the cost difference?

 

Any info is much appreciated

[jaisonline]

I have decided to build a lego city. What kind of track should I use? the RC or the 9v? All I have now is two RC trains but I will need a bunch of track. Do most people wind up going 9v in case they decide to collect older ones? What is the cost difference?

 

Any info is much appreciated

 

personally, my opinion hasn't changed much since this thread was created.  i'm a 9v fan despite my collection of power function parts.

 

the 9v motor is pretty much plug and play.  i've converted train sets to 9v w/o much effort (toy story, emerald night, hogwarts express, holiday train).  took about 2 mins per train.

 

initial buy-in can be costly though (motor, converter, track).  i was able to find good deals on ebay and bricklick since 2013.

 

power functions offers more options and is lego's current standard. 

[junkrigger]

PF are cool because you can run multiple trains on the same track, and also your layouts can be more elaborate and complex because you don't have the +/- track to worry about that can not be crossed. For example the coolest piece of track 7996 double crossover is not available in 9v and I have tried retrofitting it with metal rails at large expense of time and its not working right yet.  The 9v can provide more torque and power so can have longer trains without getting multiple motors involved, and of course as mentioned there is no need to house the battery inside.  Also at best with PF trains you would want to use the rechargeable battery pack or at least use rechargeable batteries, cause really lego do one solid for the environment and don't promote people buying and using disposable batteries, yuk. So I have the rechargeable battery packs in mine but then the battery dies in the middle of using it so you either replace it out with another charged one or change the rechargeable batteries, not to much of a pain, but those rechargeable packs are $50 each, which on top of already expensive sets is very expensive.  Now the real downside of 9v, straight track is $5 each at best, crossing tracks are at least $30, switching tracks are not terrible and curves are the cheapest at $1, all of which are significantly more than the new track.  So for a large complex layout you can spend many $100's just on track. I'm sure others have some more good insight as well but this has been my experience. I had lots of 9v track and trains from my childhood so I use that a lot but also think its cool to have a few PF trains for like switching engines that can run at the same time.  PF seem to be more interactive and fun for multiple users since multiple trains can run at the same time, which is great for multiple kids or adults to play at the same time, especially if you have a very elaborate layout.

[jaisonline]

i also recommend PF for trains around the xmas tree.  just put the battery box somewhere easy for removal.