Changes with LEGO: Anyone Else Catch These Things?

[Blackjack]

Being most interested in minifigures, I'll touch on that briefly.  As a whole, I like the new detailed printing, just so long as the figs aren't Clone Wars/cartoony.  Also, the new parts seem to dent more easily than the old ones.  (this could be China or just a decline in quality as a whole) I sure prefer these fig designs over most of the ones we were seeing in 2002-2008 though!  I'm a big fan of printed legs, and it's only a matter of time before printed arms become standard as well.  (we've already seen them on a few newer figs, eg. Sleepyhead.)

[Mos_Eisley]

The quality of the CMF is quite clearly less than the regular minifigures you get from regular sets. The minifigures from the CMF line as well as things like magnets are made in China while, up to this point, the minifigures that you find in regular sets have not been. It's pretty easy to tell the difference but it has been discussed on many other sites for a couple years now. The CMF minifigures feel a little cheaper, have a more milky, translucent quality to the plastic and they do not have the black strip on the neck post. Maybe this isn't as obvious to newer collectors, but I would say that anyone who has been collecting a long time can tell the difference without being told there is one.

[justafrog]

I did a little preliminary digging last night and found myself pretty quickly on Euro Bricks, where some people insisted they knew all the Chinese manufactured minifigs and they were inferior, and others insisted that they weren't. So, yeah, I'm not buying the face value, "I know what's right just because" arguments.

If anyone does have any facts, not just a summation of the opinions supporting their side, I'm still interested in sources and citations.

[StarCityBrickCompany]

Maybe this is one of those NY Bread tastes better (which it does) arguments.

 

Maybe the altitude & humidity levels have an effect on the production of ABS plastic.

[adewar]

Would it be fair to say that supposedly "inferior" figs would be lighter (I.e. less dense)? If so, perhaps someone with a highly precise scale could run some tests on torsos and legs? I'm with frog on this, I've heard this notion, but haven't seen the evidence. I'm not enough of a fig connoisseur to be able to tell just by comparing two in my hand.

[lego rules]

Wow, really? I guess some other company makes the CMF series.

Sent from my iPhone using Brickpicker

I was talking about the fake minifigs coming from there.

 

Any quality differences are because of the specs laid out and other reasons I pointed to above.   ABS is not just ABS, there is alot more to it.

 

It is ridiculous to think that China or any other country would make an inferor product.  Heck TLG can move the molds and ship the material to China so it is the EXACT same plastic.

[justafrog]

Any quality differences are because of the specs laid out 

 

Thank you, I was in the process of trying to say the same thing, using way too many words, to make that very simple point.

 

 

Some parts or lines like CMF may actually be lighter, by intent, rather than everyone in quality control at TLG being on the take or sick that day.

 

When accounting and the design department sit down together, such decisions are sometimes made.

[Guest TabbyBoy]

Yes.... When I built my 7631 Dump Truck (a 2009 set), I noticed that the yellow of the wheel arches, roof and load bay were slightly different shades.  I spoke to Lego out of curiosity when I rang for something else and they said that different pieces are often made in different factories but, they make sure that any colour difference is within tolerance.  It appears to me that standards of once great companies are slipping.  Just look at Apple with the yellow tints on the iPad Air and Mini Retina.  I'm on my 13th iPad Mini Retina and this is still far from perfect.

 

Why does it have to be yellow!  I hate yellow!

[Deez_Brickz]

The quality of the CMF is quite clearly less than the regular minifigures you get from regular sets. The minifigures from the CMF line as well as things like magnets are made in China while, up to this point, the minifigures that you find in regular sets have not been. It's pretty easy to tell the difference but it has been discussed on many other sites for a couple years now. The CMF minifigures feel a little cheaper, have a more milky, translucent quality to the plastic and they do not have the black strip on the neck post. Maybe this isn't as obvious to newer collectors, but I would say that anyone who has been collecting a long time can tell the difference without being told there is one.

Quoting For Truth.

If anyone is questioning the quality then they need to go handle some CMF figs and some from a non-Chinese made set. The difference in quality is obvious.

Also- it negates the same mould argument as well. The moulds for the legs are not the same, as the inside of the legs lacks the lego brand name printing and numbering. Why did TLG let the Chinese factories get away with that?

[lego rules]

Quoting For Truth.

If anyone is questioning the quality then they need to go handle some CMF figs and some from a non-Chinese made set. The difference in quality is obvious.

Also- it negates the same mould argument as well. The moulds for the legs are not the same, as the inside of the legs lacks the lego brand name printing and numbering. Why did TLG let the Chinese factories get away with that?

TLG lays out the specs,  the chinese manufactures builds it.  TLG has to sign off on the product so why do you think this has anything to do with where it is made???

[Blackjack]

I hear some people saying that the CM's may not be of a lesser quality, and I believe this to be incorrect.  From my long experience working with minifigures, I can say that the CM's not only have inferior printing and brick color, but the plastic cracks much more easily.  Minifigure pieces have been getting progressively weaker for years, but it is even more pronounced in the CM's.  (Just compare and old SW or Batman torso with one of the newer ones to see what I'm talking about)

[Blackjack]

*And the Brickpickers gear up for a civil war over piece quality* 

[justafrog]

Why did TLG let the Chinese factories get away with that?

 

Assuming they did, it's because it's Working as Intended.

 

TLG isn't a helpless bystander watching their outsourced contractors destroy their brand while they wring their hands and sob, "Oh, if only we had known!"

 

They give specifications, they accept finished product based on their own internal quality control assessments, and they authorize the product for shipment.

 

It doesn't mater if they contract out to a factory in China, Japan, Germany, Bangladesh, the U.S., Canada, or Outer Mongolia - they say how it's to be made, the contractor makes it and hands it back, TLG looks it over and say, "Yep, that's fine" or "Nope, not good enough, change this and this."

 

It's weird to me that a Chinese contractor is getting the blame for product that was specified by TLG and subsequently rubber-stamped as a-ok by TLG.

[Young_Gun21]

Assuming they did, it's because it's Working as Intended.

TLG isn't a helpless bystander watching their outsourced contractors destroy their brand while they wring their hands and sob, "Oh, if only we had known!"

They give specifications, they accept finished product based on their own internal quality control assessments, and they authorize the product for shipment.

It doesn't mater if they contract out to a factory in China, Japan, Germany, Bangladesh, the U.S., Canada, or Outer Mongolia - they say how it's to be made, the contractor makes it and hands it back, TLG looks it over and say, "Yep, that's fine" or "Nope, not good enough, change this and this."

It's weird to me that a Chinese contractor is getting the blame for product that was specified by TLG and subsequently rubber-stamped as a-ok by TLG.

This is so true. They want to lower their production costs so they make a lower quality piece it's that simple. It isn't some Chinese guy's fault

-I don't always going shopping, but when I do I buy Lego-

[lego rules]

Just seems to be a stigma related to low quality and China when in reality the company just wants to produce a cheaper part for higher margins.

[Mos_Eisley]

I'm not blaming the Chinese for the quality. Of course TLG has the final say. But none of that matters since what is coming out of China, at least when it comes to minifigures, is a lesser quality. It doesn't matter who is at fault.

[Pirate]

I was talking about the fake minifigs coming from there.

 

Any quality differences are because of the specs laid out and other reasons I pointed to above.   ABS is not just ABS, there is alot more to it.

 

It is ridiculous to think that China or any other country would make an inferor product.  Heck TLG can move the molds and ship the material to China so it is the EXACT same plastic.

 

 

Thank you, I was in the process of trying to say the same thing, using way too many words, to make that very simple point.

 

 

Some parts or lines like CMF may actually be lighter, by intent, rather than everyone in quality control at TLG being on the take or sick that day.

 

When accounting and the design department sit down together, such decisions are sometimes made.

 

TLG lays out the specs,  the chinese manufactures builds it.  TLG has to sign off on the product so why do you think this has anything to do with where it is made???

 

I don't know what you people are arguing about.  

 

Many minifigures are made in China.  This is a fact.  

The quality of the minifigures made in China is different.  This is a fact.  

Most, if not all, real, serious collectors would say the quality is inferior.  This is a fact.   

 

The plastic used in the chinese factories is different.  It is not the same plastic used in their other factories.  It is chinese made plastic.  This means one of two things.  TLG is either using the best available, closest to what it uses everywhere else plastic, and this is what we end up with, or they're going with a close (but no cigar) and much cheaper variation, or a bit of a combination of both.  I don't see why this is so hard to grasp.  TLG is not going to ship a bazillion pounds of european high quality ABS to China.  That would defeat the whole purpose of using the plant in China.  They are going to use plastic available in China, and they're either cheaping out on us, or that's the best/closest they can get there.  End of story.

[Blackjack]

So TLG is doing this because they can make cheap, crappy parts, or the cheap labor?  Probably both?

[Pirate]

I did a little preliminary digging last night and found myself pretty quickly on Euro Bricks, where some people insisted they knew all the Chinese manufactured minifigs and they were inferior, and others insisted that they weren't. So, yeah, I'm not buying the face value, "I know what's right just because" arguments.

If anyone does have any facts, not just a summation of the opinions supporting their side, I'm still interested in sources and citations.

 

I don't know what you're going after.  The quality of a regular minifigure and a chinese minifigure are clearly different.  If you can't compare two of them together and see the differences, I don't know what to tell you.  You are of course entitled to an opinion that, while different, the chinese figures are *not* inferior.  But they are clearly different, and that is a fact.  I don't know what more you want.

[lego rules]

, or they're going with a close (but no cigar) and much cheaper variation,

exactly my point.

 

China DOES produce excellent quality plastic resin pellets used for injection molding.  If TLG chooses not to use that plastic to save on cost, that has nothing to do with the country of manufacture.  To my knowlege TLG manufactures in Europe and Mexico as well.

 

By the way, making the plastic pellets is just chemistry so any country can make them with the right materials and machinery.

[justafrog]

I don't know what you're going after.  The quality of a regular minifigure and a chinese minifigure are clearly different.  If you can't compare two of them together and see the differences, I don't know what to tell you.  You are of course entitled to an opinion that, while different, the chinese figures are *not* inferior.  But they are clearly different, and that is a fact.  I don't know what more you want.

 

Actually, all I'm looking for is: how do you know that the parts of the figures you consider "lesser quality" are in fact being manufactured in China? The bags may say "some parts made in China" but unless I'm missing something, they don't say which ones.

 

How do you know that TLG is not, in general, experimenting with plastic weights and different qualities of materials in all their factories and contractors, worldwide? How do we know that TLG isn't using up the last of their Red Baseball Cap A123 and moving on to manufacturing, in every factory, the new variant Red Baseball Cap A124 (lighter weight), so there are some minifigs on the shelf with the old one and some with the new one?

 

It appears that assumptions are being made, I'm just asking if there is any actual fact to back up these assumptions - sources, citations, a list from TLG of the parts made in China versus Mexico or Denmark, etc.

[Pirate]

exactly my point.

China DOES produce excellent quality plastic resin pellets used for injection molding. If TLG chooses not to use that plastic to save on cost, that has nothing to do with the country of manufacture. To my knowlege TLG manufactures in Europe and Mexico as well.

By the way, making the plastic pellets is just chemistry so any country can make them with the right materials and machinery.

You're arguing a point that no one is arguing about. The crappy figs are made in China. It has everything to do with that fact. No one is saying high quality figs couldn't be produced in China. The fact is, they aren't.

Sent from my iPhone using Brickpicker

[Pirate]

Actually, all I'm looking for is: how do you know that the parts of the figures you consider "lesser quality" are in fact being manufactured in China? The bags may say "some parts made in China" but unless I'm missing something, they don't say which ones.

 

How do you know that TLG is not, in general, experimenting with plastic weights and different qualities of materials in all their factories and contractors, worldwide? How do we know that TLG isn't using up the last of their Red Baseball Cap A123 and moving on to manufacturing, in every factory, the new variant Red Baseball Cap A124 (lighter weight), so there are some minifigs on the shelf with the old one and some with the new one?

 

It appears that assumptions are being made, I'm just asking if there is any actual fact to back up these assumptions - sources, citations, a list from TLG of the parts made in China versus Mexico or Denmark, etc.

 

The bags say they are made in China.  They do not say they 'may' be made in China, or anywhere else.  They are made in China.  There is no speculation going on here or assumptions being made.

[justafrog]

The bags say they are made in China.  They do not say they 'may' be made in China, or anywhere else.  They are made in China.  There is no speculation going on here or assumptions being made.

 

I don't have any bags to look at, but pulling a set off my shelf (79007 Black Gate, purchased this month, I believe from Amazon but I'd have to verify that), it says:

"Components made in Denmark, Hungary, Mexico, China and the Czech Republic".

 

Which parts of Black Gate are of lesser quality than the rest, I wonder? And which country do I blame? And does TLG have no part in the blame for whichever sub-standard pieces from China are in there, or is China manufacturing those sub-standard pieces to Lego's standards?

 

And, for the minifig bags that don't say "Made in China" (if any currently on the market or in someone's collection), how do we know that those bags aren't the older version and regardless of where they were made, they were going to be of that quality because TLG's internal standards were adjusted?

 

Doesn't it seem a little weird that TLG would intentionally say to their Denmark Factory on a given day, "You guys use this set of standards to manufacture Minifigure B27, we're sending a whole different set of standards to China for the same minifigure today." ?

[Pirate]

I don't have any bags to look at, but pulling a set off my shelf (79007 Black Gate, purchased this month, I believe from Amazon but I'd have to verify that), it says:

"Components made in Denmark, Hungary, Mexico, China and the Czech Republic".

 

Which parts of Black Gate are of lesser quality than the rest, I wonder? And which country do I blame? And does TLG have no part in the blame for whichever sub-standard pieces from China are in there, or is China manufacturing those sub-standard pieces to Lego's standards?

 

And, for the minifig bags that don't say "Made in China" (if any currently on the market or in someone's collection), how do we know that those bags aren't the older version and regardless of where they were made, they were going to be of that quality because TLG's internal standards were adjusted?

 

Doesn't it seem a little weird that TLG would intentionally say to their Denmark Factory on a given day, "You guys use this set of standards to manufacture Minifigure B27, we're sending a whole different set of standards to China for the same minifigure today." ?

 

Argh, we're not talking about minifigs in (most) sets.  Those are not made in China.  We're talking about minifigs made in China, as in the CMF series.  The ones that say "MADE IN CHINA, AND ONLY CHINA, AND NO WHERE ELSE BUT CHINA' on the packages.  

 

As for what in the Black Gate is made in China - anything that comes in its own little plastic bag, for one thing -- typically the soft, custom head pieces.  And no, I'm not going to cite proof.  If you don't want to believe me, fine.  I'm done arguing.  This is going nowhere.