10224 - Town Hall

[Cbenioff]

I think Helm's Deep has under performed so far. It has been retired almost a year and it is around $40 over MSRP. In the same time frame, the Fire Brigade is about $130 over MSRP. I realize there is a small difference in price, but Helm's Deep has not impressed IMO. Maybe with the last LOTR/Hobbit movie, it will help interest in the set increase.

The difference is that Helm's Deep wasn't an exclusive. I got mine less than a year ago when it was an Amazon Lightning deal for $92. Now it's nearly double that. Comparing them both at MSRP when one was often discounted doesn't tell the whole story.

[kenchu2000]

This set keeps coming back into stock and then going out of stock because of panic buyers. I went to lego store. They had over 20 plus a whole display. They laughed when I asked if it was retired. I left them all on the shelf. They had no ge and said they had not had any for over 9 months and did not expect any more ever. Th is not retiring

 

 

Please tell us which Lego store, I am pretty sure some of the BPers will clean them up in seconds.

[holleman67]

When you think the Ssd couldn't be topped, this thread is on pace to do so.

[allen9917]

When you buy a set at $130 and sell for $200 online, you do not get $70. You get about half of that.

I cannot agree. Firstly as I already mentioned it still can be found here.

Secondly I just took a look at ebay.com sold items and there I can find sets sold this month for 205$, 230$ (okay that one is from britain I see...), 180$, 170$

(older ones have been cheaper that's true).

 

So if you bought it for retail 130$ and sell it for about 200$ (that's the price I see for the time around christmas) you still get 70$ (probably you've bought it for less than retail though). Even if you sell it for 60$ it's still not too bad (60-70$ = +50%)

 

The Fire Brigade has been 150$ retail, looking at ebay 260-320$. This is +100% and yes it is "better" I cannot argue against this fact, but I don't know how widely available the Fire Brigade has been and if there have been any huge discounts on it, and since I have not followed helms deep too much (wasn't in the game) I cannot say for sure but my educated guess would be that there have been more discounts on that one = more opportunities to get it cheaper and to get MORE of them (+ it's cheaper to start with which makes it more affordable for smaller resellers).

 

You can say what you want, but +50% is not bad and assuming that you got helms deep for less than 130$ I'd say that +100% (like Fire Brigade) is not totally out of questions.

 

Of course not every set perfoms the same and probably Fire Brigade really is better than HD but still I wouldn't say that HD is "bad", especially not if you take the availability and discounts into consideration.

 

Please feel free to disagree but that's my opinion.

[Ed Mack]

The difference is that Helm's Deep wasn't an exclusive. I got mine less than a year ago when it was an Amazon Lightning deal for $92. Now it's nearly double that. Comparing them both at MSRP when one was often discounted doesn't tell the whole story.

I agree. I stated that also. May I also remind you that I bought plenty of Fire Brigades for less than $120 as well. Using MSRP is the fairest way to compare.

[Locutus001]

allen9917, on 05 Oct 2014 - 1:59 PM, said:

When you buy a set at $130 and sell for $200 online, you do not get $70. You get about half of that.

 

1. Same for FB

2. Depends on where you sell it!!!

3. Your calculation is wrong if we assume 10% ebay fee (I'd guess your comment goes into this direction?)

200 - 10% = 20 leaves you with 180 --> 50$ this is a little bit more than about half of 70$

Edited October 5, 2014 by Locutus001

[allen9917]

Add shipping cost and you get about $35. And no, it is not the same for FB. When you buy a set at $150 and sell for $300, you get about $100.

When you buy a set at $130 and sell for $200 online, you do not get $70. You get about half of that.

 

1. Same for FB

2. Depends on where you sell it!!!

3. You calculation is wrong if we assume 10% ebay fee (I'd guess your comment goes into this direction?)

200 - 10% = 20 leaves you with 180 --> 50$ this is a little bit more than about half of 70$

[KShine]

I agree. I stated that also. May I also remind you that I bought plenty of Fire Brigades for less than $120 as well. Using MSRP is the fairest way to compare.

 

Using the avg cost per day (using the major retailers) divided by the life of a set (in days) is the fairest way.

[Locutus001]

Add shipping cost and you get about $35. And no, it is not the same for FB. When you buy a set at $150 and sell for $300, you get about $100.

 

 

So you decided to totally ignore what I have written in my answer. Of course that is one way to win an argument I guess...

 

If I sell it on ebay for 10% + some % paypal and if I pay the shipping cost and add the time and effort I've put into this it probably leaves me with -100$ yeah true...

But as I already said: It depends where you sell it!

And If you always pay the shipping costs that's nice of you but I don't.

If I say: Selling an item for 200$ I mean selling an item for 200$ not selling and item for 200$ minus shipping cost.

Btw 35$ shipping cost seems to be a little bit off.

 

Yes it is the same for FB, you have to calculate it the same way. The more you get the more you'll pay to ebay because 10% still will be 10%.

I have not said that FB does sell for less right now than HD, of course you'll have some money more if you compare their performance right now, there is nothing I can say against it... I only said that 1. it is too early if you ask me to say HD is a bad performer and 2. I agreed that FB right now performs better but that there are a lot of factors to take into consideration (like discount and availability).

 

It's nice of you that you try to lecture me about basic economy and ebay-sells, but trust me when I say that I do know that not all the money that the buyer spends on an ebay-item really reaches my bank account.

My point to make that clear again has been (and still is) that a comparision between those two seems a little bit unfair (see above mentioned facts).

So YES!!! FB is performing better right now! But NO! I wouldn't give up on HD right now (see above mentioned facts) and I do not think that it is underperforming so far. And I didn't get FB for a big discount whereas I found (a couple of weeks ago!) HD for a discount. So for me personally it performs rather good right now. (And I bet more people have found a HD discounted than a FB and I haven't found any FB as of lately compared to HD).

 

Of course FB as part of the modulars theme is successful, but you just need to give HD some time (as it has not really been retired as long as FB talking of availability at least...) and the theme LOTR also is highly interesting when it comes to investing. When LOTR is officially retired those sets will gain. Period.

 

As for TH:

I wouldn't be surprised if it would perform equally to FB. Still the question still is if it will be retired soon or not ;-)

[allen9917]

I'm not saying HD is a bad investment, I'm just saying your calculation is misleading, may be not for you, but for others not used to online selling. Right now HD is going for under $200 (the out of buyer's pocket price). With $20 ebay fee and $15 shipping, you are looking at $35 profit from the $130 buy in price. Use the same calculation for FB, buy in $150 and sell for $300, after $30 fee and $20 shipping, you are looking at $100 profit. So they are different. What's so complicated with that?

 

The 'depends on where you sell it' argument is not that relevant. Of course you don't pay shipping and fee with local tranactions, but how many sellers sell their stuff online vs. local? Also, if you are selling HD for $200 after all cost and fees, good for you, I don't see how that would apply to other people, as it is currenly going for about $180 (out of buyer's pocket) price on Amazon.

 

Of course, the story is different if you bought HD with big discount, but didn't you use the $130 retail price in your example anyway?

Edited October 5, 2014 by allen9917

[CyberLogic]

Just to add some information to this.  I ordered mine over the phone on Thursday through a rep at Lego.com.  Note this was AFTER it said Sold Out on site.  She was able to place the order for me and it shipped today already.  Not sure if anyone else would have luck with this but worth a try.  

[Lucent]

I placed an order in the same manner (after sold out and on the phone) on Friday afternoon and heard there were "very low stock levels, so it may go through in the standard amount of time, or it may be cancelled." It was in process until this morning. It has now shipped. I'm satisfied; I just wanted one for myself at a reasonable price.

[Locutus001]

I'm not saying HD is a bad investment, I'm just saying your calculation is misleading, may be not for you, but for others not used to online selling. Right now HD is going for under $200 (the out of buyer's pocket price). With $20 ebay fee and $15 shipping, you are looking at $35 profit from the $130 buy in price. Use the same calculation for FB, buy in $150 and sell for $300, after $30 fee and $20 shipping, you are looking at $100 profit. So they are different. What's so complicated with that?

 

The 'depends on where you sell it' argument is not that relevant. Of course you don't pay shipping and fee with local tranactions, but how many sellers sell their stuff online vs. local? Also, if you are selling HD for $200 after all cost and fees, good for you, I don't see how that would apply to other people, as it is currenly going for about $180 (out of buyer's pocket) price on Amazon.

 

Of course, the story is different if you bought HD with big discount, but didn't you use the $130 retail price in your example anyway?

Again to end this discussion:

I never said you do not get more for the FB as it is right now (retail price), you are right there and I won't say anything against it, but it is not a fair comparission. You wouldn't compare it to 10030 would you?

Comparing HD you should use another non-exclusive set that has been equally long retired, not an exclusive that has been effectively out of the shelves for a little longer.

And another point that is important is that I would not sell HD right now since (as I've pointed out before) it needs some more time (because it has not effectively been out of the stores that long and was widely available). But when talking about performance of course it is your right to say you feel that it underperformed but this statement is somewhat misleading. I would also wish that HD would be worth 1,000$ right now, don't get me wrong, but I don't see how you can give up on it that fast and mark it as "underperforming".

 

So yes you are right, FB is the better thing to have and sell right now if you want to make the biggest profit (though I wouldn't) but I'd say that it is not constructive to compare these two (especially that soon).

[KShine]

So yes you are right, FB is the better thing to have and sell right now if you want to make the biggest profit (though I wouldn't) but I'd say that it is not constructive to compare these two (especially that soon).

 

Yes - people like to declare very quickly that an investment is a loser, when it is not.

 

All UCS sets are also losers, since they fail to match the Falcon - of course this is nonsense, but people can still say it.

[biniou]

Monday you sell a Helm's deep, Tuesday a Fire brigade.

If you only stuck with FB, you would only have one sell in the week.

 

FB certainly is a better investment compared to HD. But that's just a part of the investment game (the most important, I agree, but not the only one).

[Ed Mack]

 

So yes you are right, FB is the better thing to have and sell right now if you want to make the biggest profit (though I wouldn't) but I'd say that it is not constructive to compare these two (especially that soon).

One last off topic post...I mentioned the FB because of the close MSRP(130/150) and the retirement dates in the US were almost identical.  I have about 12 of them, so I am interested in them doing well.  I know many on the site are very protective of the set, so I try to tread lightly when I speak of it.  To me, there are some flaws with the set that will stunt its overall growth, but I still believe it will be a solid producer in the long run.

[Ed Mack]

This set keeps coming back into stock and then going out of stock because of panic buyers. I went to lego store. They had over 20 plus a whole display. They laughed when I asked if it was retired. I left them all on the shelf. They had no ge and said they had not had any for over 9 months and did not expect any more ever. Th is not retiring

Proverbs 29:11 - A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.

[Fcbarcelona101]

Since when are we paying attention to what Lego store employees say?

[Neosphinx]

Since when are we paying attention to what Lego store employees say?

I don't see why you would not pay attention. They can inform you about future deliveries to their store. Most of the time, employees of Lego shops are pictured as being clueless with the IQ of a demented hamster, but when a set don't come in no more, it don't come in no matter what resides in your skull. Should you believe every word they say? No, but you can cross reference what they say with other retailers or other shops.

[Fcbarcelona101]

I don't see why you would not pay attention. They can inform you about future deliveries to their store. Most of the time, employees of Lego shops are pictured as being clueless with the IQ of a demented hamster, but when a set don't come in no more, it don't come in no matter what resides in your skull. Should you believe every word they say? No, but you can cross reference what they say with other retailers or other shops.

We can agree on that, but saying that they laughed at a question (indicating there was no way the set will retire soon) makes it sound like we should all assume it won't retire.

I take all the information I can, but being a very frequent visitor at my local store has taught me to never take anything they say at face value.

[Fcbarcelona101]

I don't see why you would not pay attention. They can inform you about future deliveries to their store. Most of the time, employees of Lego shops are pictured as being clueless with the IQ of a demented hamster, but when a set don't come in no more, it don't come in no matter what resides in your skull. Should you believe every word they say? No, but you can cross reference what they say with other retailers or other shops.

Also, It's not about being intelligent or completely dumb. You could have Einstein working part time as a cashier in the DT Disney store and he would have absolutely no way to know if something is retiring or not.

[speedsausage]

We can agree on that, but saying that they laughed at a question (indicating there was no way the set will retire soon) makes it sound like we should all assume it won't retire.

I take all the information I can, but being a very frequent visitor at my local store has taught me to never take anything they say at face value.

Agreed. In the same visit, one employee said the pet shop is on the retiring list. I walk over to another employee, bullshit about a few things and totally contradicts the other employee without any prompting by me. "The pet shop will be around for awhile, but the town hall is on the short list" this was about a month ago.

Exactly what fcbarcelona said, take in all the info you can and make the best educated decision.

[Ed Mack]

Since when are we paying attention to what Lego store employees say?

I wasn't referring to the LEGO store employee.

[Fcbarcelona101]

I wasn't referring to the LEGO store employee.

I know you weren't.

[exciter1]

I wasn't referring to the LEGO store employee.

 

I know you weren't.

 

Ed is a LEGO Store employee???