10224 - Town Hall

[Bold-Arrow]

8 minutes ago, dcdfan said:

This. 100%. I wanted a Tumbler Joker but there was no way I was gonna buy it off eBay . I ended up getting one from a friend that I knew instead that only wanted the Tumbler.

Buy with confidence..Buy from BA's Amazon shop. To us you are family 

[snot]

Maybe someone could start an AFA (action figure authority) type business for Lego?

[exciter1]

2 minutes ago, snot said:

Maybe someone could start an AFA (action figure authority) type business for Lego?

AFA already grades sealed LEGO sets.

[Deadfraggle]

27 minutes ago, Phil B said:

The problem is going to be when bulk lots start containing vast amounts of LEPIN/LELE bricks, virtually indistinguishable from genuine LEGO bricks. That contamination is going to hit BrickLink hard. Perhaps not for those who sell only "New" bricks, but Used bricks will be hit hard. Used Bulk lots will drop in value pretty hard. Such is my opinion.

About a year ago I brick-linked Green Grocer. To buy all the required sand green bricks in new condition would have cost me close to $400 I believe (it could have been more, I just don't remember). I ended up making some pieces swaps that I could stylistically live with in order to control costs, but still spent a fair amount. I remember seeing a listing on eBay at the time from one of the Chinese brick companies. It was a package deal that included every sand-green brick required to build your own Green Grocer model for $54 BIN.

I'm not going to lie, it was tempting. In the end, self-respect, personal pride, and concerns over fit/color-match/quality-control kept me from making the purchase. If it gets to the point where knock-off bricks rival LEGO in fit, color, texture and appearance, then buyers might not want to pay $4 per brick for (50) Sand Green 1x8s.

[KShine]

19 minutes ago, Deadfraggle said:

Personally, I won't buy any of the high dollar minifigures off eBay or Amazon anymore for my personal collection because I can't trust the source.

 

16 minutes ago, dcdfan said:

This. 100%. I wanted a Tumbler Joker but there was no way I was gonna buy it off eBay. I ended up getting one from a friend that I knew instead that only wanted the Tumbler.

This actually benefits the established LEGO re-sellers who have positive feedback and a long track record of high quality. 

[Phil B]

2 minutes ago, KShine said:

 

This actually benefits the established LEGO re-sellers who have positive feedback and a long track record of high quality. 

You mean ToyWiz? <duck>

[Alpinemaps]

Buy with confidence..Buy from BA's Amazon shop. To us you are family 

To us.....you are Little Timmy.

[Deadfraggle]

1 minute ago, KShine said:

 

This actually benefits the established LEGO re-sellers who have positive feedback and a long track record of high quality. 

I think it already does. I buy 10+ sets a month on eBay and I won't buy from you if you don't have:

1) a proven record

2) a proven record selling LEGO specifically

That being said, its possible, that sometime in the future, eBay could become enough of a cesspool that I cease 3rd party LEGO transactions there entirely, and shift solely to brick classifieds/bricklink/major retailers

[Loghamel]

This really has nothing to do with TH, but it does relate to the current discussion.  I REALLLLLLLLLY with there would be a shift in this industry to opened, sealed bags being the standard for buying/selling LEGO.  Even if I purchase something at the LEGO store, I always have this part of me that hates not knowing the contents of a sealed box.  I wish buyers would stop worrying about the seals on the outside of the box and move to worrying if the bags are sealed.  This would allow us 3rd party sellers to pop the seals and verify contents.  I've actually asked buyers if they were collectors or if it was a gift for a child.   They've all always said gift, so I've followed up with asking if they'd care to pop the seals and verify contents before I left.  I would give someone a discount, albeit small, if a buyer were to allow me to pop the seals.  That's how much my reputation means to me.  It would only take one jacka$$ to return a box filled with garbage and me buy then sell it  to ruin years of effort in building my rep.

[KShine]

1 minute ago, Loghamel said:

This really has nothing to do with TH, but it does relate to the current discussion.  I REALLLLLLLLLY with there would be a shift in this industry to opened, sealed bags being the standard for buying/selling LEGO.  Even if I purchase something at the LEGO store, I always have this part of me that hates not knowing the contents of a sealed box.  I wish buyers would stop worrying about the seals on the outside of the box and move to worrying if the bags are sealed.  This would allow us 3rd party sellers to pop the seals and verify contents.  I've actually asked buyers if they were collectors or if it was a gift for a child.   They've all always said gift, so I've followed up with asking if they'd care to pop the seals and verify contents before I left.  I would give someone a discount, albeit small, if a buyer were to allow me to pop the seals.  That's how much my reputation means to me.  It would only take one jacka$$ to return a box filled with garbage and me buy then sell it  to ruin years of effort in building my rep.

All fears aside - It simply doesn't happen that often.

If it would give you peace of mind, there is nothing that should stop you from selling a set - New & sealed contents (with or without the box).

[chrisynd]

1 hour ago, KShine said:

All fears aside - It simply doesn't happen that often.

If it would give you peace of mind, there is nothing that should stop you from selling a set - New & sealed contents (with or without the box).

It's rare, but, it is that one shot that blows a perfect feedback record. Negatives are hard to bury if you're not moving a lot of volume.

Here's one I caught before it made it into a buyer's hands recently. Just happened to notice it seemed a little off balance and didn't "clink" right in the box. Weight was within 5% of another same set and the seals were intact but maybe a little pulled. Popped them to be sure after shaking it around more and got quite the surprise. 

This is the third or fourth "contents replaced" "new" set I've run across this year. 

The worse part is you can never outright blame the seller (be it Walmart or an individual on BrickLink, eBay, etc) because who knows who actually did it. The worst part is when they get by and you sell them. ...Or did one get by? Maybe the buyer is trying to screw you the seller. Who knows.

Edited July 15, 2016 by chrisynd

[Loghamel]

24 minutes ago, chrisynd said:

It's rare, but, it is that one shot that blows a perfect feedback record. Negatives are hard to bury if you're not moving a lot of volume.

Here's one I caught before it made it into a buyer's hands recently. Just happened to notice it seemed a little off balance and didn't "clink" right in the box. Weight was within 5% of another same set and the seals were intact but maybe a little pulled. Popped them to be sure after shaking it around more and got quite the surprise. 

This is the third or fourth "contents replaced" "new" set I've run across this year. 

The worse part is you can never outright blame the seller (be it Walmart or an individual on BrickLink, eBay, etc) because who knows who actually did it. The worst part is when they get by and you sell them. ...Or did one get by? Maybe the buyer is trying to screw you the seller. Who knows.

This picture is the exact one I had in mind when I made the comment.  If you had sold that, you wouldn't know if the seller was trying to rip you off.  The seller wouldn't know if you were trying to rip him/her off.  Nobody would know except the person who did it.

[freakchem]

Can I know which issue the penthouse magazine is? lol

[Average Guy]

13 hours ago, Emodular said:

What's your take on the Town Hall chinese knockoff and how that will affect this set?

What search words are you using to find these Chinese knockoffs of Town Hall? I used  "Town Hall" on Ebay and I couldn't find any. I'd like to see one although I'd never buy one. I would buy minifigures from China though. I also like the Chinese urban and school busses but don't own any.

[Average Guy]

3 hours ago, Loghamel said:

This really has nothing to do with TH, but it does relate to the current discussion.  I REALLLLLLLLLY with there would be a shift in this industry to opened, sealed bags being the standard for buying/selling LEGO.  Even if I purchase something at the LEGO store, I always have this part of me that hates not knowing the contents of a sealed box.  I wish buyers would stop worrying about the seals on the outside of the box and move to worrying if the bags are sealed.  This would allow us 3rd party sellers to pop the seals and verify contents.  I've actually asked buyers if they were collectors or if it was a gift for a child.   They've all always said gift, so I've followed up with asking if they'd care to pop the seals and verify contents before I left.  I would give someone a discount, albeit small, if a buyer were to allow me to pop the seals.  That's how much my reputation means to me.  It would only take one jacka$$ to return a box filled with garbage and me buy then sell it  to ruin years of effort in building my rep.

Wait a minute. You pop the seals on all your kits and yet you jab at me for calling ppl "box queens" for minor shelfwear in the Tie Fighter thread???? "I wish buyers would stop worrying about the seals on the outside of the box and move to worrying if the bags are sealed. " Does your point not agree with my "box queen" comment in Tie Fighter? It is the contents that matter not the kit box? Or is it that you don't like my "snarky" delivery?

[Guest TabbyBoy]

The person who buys the box demanding it to be sealed and in mint condition won't be expected to open it but, to pass it on to some other poor sod for a profit down the line. In that case, it would be a seller in your downline that would get the grief from the person that actually opens the box.

For example, I'm surprised that nobody is forging 10179 boxes and filling them with Mega Bloks (or worse) hoping that the box won't be opened for a very long time or even passed onto somebody else. Printing a seal code onto tape is quite easy.

I'd put my neck on the line and say that 99% of those insisting on a mint box with perfect seals will never see the contents.

It may well be happening now but, most will never know.

If only buyers would club together and accept that broken seals mean that contents have been checked and value unaffected.

[KShine]

5 hours ago, chrisynd said:

It's rare, but, it is that one shot that blows a perfect feedback record. Negatives are hard to bury if you're not moving a lot of volume.

This is the third or fourth "contents replaced" "new" set I've run across this year. 

The worse part is you can never outright blame the seller (be it Walmart or an individual on BrickLink, eBay, etc) because who knows who actually did it. The worst part is when they get by and you sell them. ...Or did one get by? Maybe the buyer is trying to screw you the seller. Who knows.

The possibility of something happening doesn't justify going to extremes just to try avoiding it ever being possible.

Sellers are always vulnerable to bad events that they have no control over - ever.

You need to use caution, and avoid being an easy target for fraud. Scammers will always seek out the easy target first - Don't be one of them.

[Phil B]

21 minutes ago, TabbyBoy said:

The person who buys the box demanding it to be sealed and in mint condition won't be expected to open it but, to pass it on to some other poor sod for a profit down the line. In that case, it would be a seller in your downline that would get the grief from the person that actually opens the box.

For example, I'm surprised that nobody is forging 10179 boxes and filling them with Mega Bloks (or worse) hoping that the box won't be opened for a very long time or even passed onto somebody else. Printing a seal code onto tape is quite easy.

I'd put my neck on the line and say that 99% of those insisting on a mint box with perfect seals will never see the contents.

It may well be happening now but, most will never know.

If only buyers would club together and accept that broken seals mean that contents have been checked and value unaffected.

We've discussed this before - don't count out gift-givers as customers demanding a nice box. Even if it is the coolest set on the planet, people don't like getting a beat up box wrapped in fancy paper.

[KShine]

40 minutes ago, TabbyBoy said:

If only buyers would club together and accept that broken seals mean that contents have been checked and value unaffected.

People were horrified by the supposed tampered box epidemic years ago, with many convinced that the open box rule was inevitable - it wasn't.

Look, whoever wants to open their sets before selling them is certainly welcome to do so (no one is trying to stop them). I buy/sell open boxed sets as well, and the price difference isn't that big a deal. Many buyers who plan on building the set are happy to save a few $, and I am sure that there are some that might feel good about seeing the contents.

Scammers could also tamper with sealed bags (removing/replacing rare parts, and reseal or replace the bags), remove some LEGO pieces and replace them with Lepin or Pogo pieces - So using the same logic, people should also start worrying/suggesting that there is a need to remove every LEGO piece from a set, to inventory/photograph its authenticity.

Edited July 15, 2016 by KShine

[marcandre]

4 hours ago, Average Guy said:

What search words are you using to find these Chinese knockoffs of Town Hall? I used  "Town Hall" on Ebay and I couldn't find any. I'd like to see one although I'd never buy one. I would buy minifigures from China though. I also like the Chinese urban and school busses but don't own any.

Search lepin. The ones on ebay are actually marked up a bit. They can be found much cheaper. 

Here are some pics of town hall http://goo.gl/itNJwf all the others are here too. They do quite a few star wars sets ridiculously titled STAR WNRS. I think it's only a matter of time before we see a 10179 knockoff. 

Don't buy Chinese knockoffs. Not cool. 

[Sharkbait]

1 hour ago, TabbyBoy said:

The person who buys the box demanding it to be sealed and in mint condition won't be expected to open it but, to pass it on to some other poor sod for a profit down the line. In that case, it would be a seller in your downline that would get the grief from the person that actually opens the box.

.....

I'd put my neck on the line and say that 99% of those insisting on a mint box with perfect seals will never see the contents.

.....

If only buyers would club together and accept that broken seals mean that contents have been checked and value unaffected.

I disagree. I know that when I've purchased sets for my personal collection, I've always checked box condition and had the seller discuss box condition. Opening a nice fresh box as if it came right out of the store is part of the experience. Not quite the same if you get a box that looks like it has been run over by a truck a few times.

Mint seals to me means that there is a smaller chance that someone has been in there to tamper with the content. I've seen the people who I've bought and sold things to before, and they aren't always the brightest so I really wouldn't trust them to go in and verify that the contents are there. It isn't always the easiest to tell which set a Lego bag came from, so they could have easily messed up and put the wrong one in there by mistake. 

[Average Guy]

2 hours ago, TabbyBoy said:

The person who buys the box demanding it to be sealed and in mint condition won't be expected to open it but, to pass it on to some other poor sod for a profit down the line. In that case, it would be a seller in your downline that would get the grief from the person that actually opens the box.

For example, I'm surprised that nobody is forging 10179 boxes and filling them with Mega Bloks (or worse) hoping that the box won't be opened for a very long time or even passed onto somebody else. Printing a seal code onto tape is quite easy.

I'd put my neck on the line and say that 99% of those insisting on a mint box with perfect seals will never see the contents.

It may well be happening now but, most will never know.

If only buyers would club together and accept that broken seals mean that contents have been checked and value unaffected.

I've often thought this very same thing: with all the resellers buying kits from retailers who may have accepted a return, or from other resellers, a thief could replace kit contents and nobody would know until it passed through many different reseller's hands and then unto the end buyer's hands maybe years later. That's why I've always purchased my kits from retailers and never resellers. I don't want to enter 'Reseller Inception', for me it's too risky. I guess in any market where profit is high there will be scam artists trying to capitalize. If you've watched television reselling shows they claim that 90% of all American Civil War memorabilia from The South is counterfeit.  

Sorry if this seals/counterfeit thought is not on topic. Just tossing in my 2 cents even if someone else has already paid the 2 cents before me.

[fossilrock]

11 hours ago, Deadfraggle said:

Getting your money back through eBay/Paypal/Amazon/CC charge-back is only half the picture though.

IF, and it's a very BIG IF, we find ourselves in a situation where secondary market buyers really start to think there is a good chance they're going to receive a fake set passed off as the real deal, maybe they stop paying premium prices for retired sets. Then again, maybe it's a completely unfounded fear. Personally, I won't buy any of the high dollar minifigures off eBay or Amazon anymore for my personal collection because I can't trust the source.

This has already started in the Star Wars Black Series line.  For example, the initial wave 1 Darth Maul figure was at one point going for 150.00, which from a figure you could buy at 19.99 a few years back turned into a great investment.

Then all the cheap knockoffs from china hit around some point last year, and rookies, and unscrupulous resellers with little morals started pawning them off like they were the authentic versions.  It took a while for the dust to settle, and for the errors and knockoffs differences to get pointed out, but it really screwed up the amazon.com listing for a little bit.   Authentic versions are still sought after and maintain the same price point, but the sellers have to take measures to make sure the customer knows they are getting an authentic version, and not the knockoff.   Only serious collectors care and they are willing to pay the price for an authentic version... the ones that don't buy the ripoff version.

[chrisynd]

2 hours ago, KShine said:

The possibility of something happening doesn't justify going to extremes just to try avoiding it ever being possible.

Sellers are always vulnerable to bad events that they have no control over - ever.

You need to use caution, and avoid being an easy target for fraud. Scammers will always seek out the easy target first - Don't be one of them.

Indeed. I wasn't suggesting popping seals on every box that comes through your hands, just that, I can see how there's cause for concern. The 1-in-100 or 1-in-500 chance of getting a set that was pilfered in some fashion can easily cause real problems for sellers as individuals. As you're suggesting, though, this doesn't mean we should all hang up our hats on the business. In my view, it's just another cost of doing business. Something to be aware of.

I was attempting to point out that the real concern regarding this issue is less about the clear problem of receiving pilfered goods and dealing with it, but more about the confidence it removes from any disagreement you may have with a buyer. I move a fair amount of inventory monthly. A return on a $70 "new" set claiming figs were missing isn't the end of the world. It's not worth fighting, and, the buyer is probably being honest about it - you've seen plenty of stories of pilfered, resealed sets. It stings a little more when it's a $1,000 set.

Slightly more on topic: about a fifth of the THs I have in inventory arrived with popped seals. That's just an effect of too large of a box with LEGO's horrendous tape seals getting bashed around in warehouses and shipping. When LEGO's box sealing methods don't even survive standard, expected, logistical wear and tear - you have to wonder why they haven't developed a new sealing method. Any solution that keeps the box sealed better in transit would likely help combat pilfering. No doubt it wouldn't stop serious thieves but it'd help eliminate Timmys in the Walmart toy isle fingernailing seals in order to get figs out of boxes. Spreading the figs out across different bags has certainly helped this. I think those cleanly sealed THs will be even more rare than expected in the years to come. 

[Loghamel]

7 hours ago, Average Guy said:

Wait a minute. You pop the seals on all your kits and yet you jab at me for calling ppl "box queens" for minor shelfwear in the Tie Fighter thread???? "I wish buyers would stop worrying about the seals on the outside of the box and move to worrying if the bags are sealed. " Does your point not agree with my "box queen" comment in Tie Fighter? It is the contents that matter not the kit box? Or is it that you don't like my "snarky" delivery?

I wasn't jabbing you at all.  I was simply pointing out that most of my customers are buying LEGO to give them as gifts and, as such, don't want a beat up box.   They're more than happy to pop the seals as it doesn't affect the aesthetic of the gift at all.  In my response to you, I was simply saying the CUSTOMERS are the box queens, not those of us that sell to them.  But as long as they are, 3rd party sellers are going to have to purchase accordingly.