How profitable is it to buy, grade, and sell

[StarPod]

My funds for lego investing have dried up rather quickly this holiday season so ive been brain storming ways to increase my capital for legos. I was thinking that a profitable business approach could be as simple as buying a mint sealed set that has retired, sending it in to be professionally graded and then flip it on ebay. what do you guys think

[theplasticmanor]

I would be really curious to this as well. How much does it cost to get a set graded?

[MartinP]

I have seen some graded sets go for a lot of money. The most was $12,500 for a 9.0 10179 MF. The least I saw was $120 for a 8.5 TC-14 polybag. I do not know how much the grading cost is but, it seems that it would cost a decent amount to get certain sets graded.

[StarPod]

A set like 10179 would be around 1,000$ to grade however if you send items in bulk you receive a remarkable discount

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

The thing is - they are going to sit. I would watch on Ebay though and just see if you can find where some have sold and what they sold for above value. Its tough - I would say you would want to pay below market value for the original set which is hard if it is mint.

[Spartikis]

I just dont see much market for graded LEGO sets, who point is to build the set. But then again people pay crazy money for GI Joes in their boxes and youre supposed to play with those, not let them sit in a box...

[glenbart]

I can't see the attraction of having a Lego box sealed in plastic, but figures, yes.

[Grolim]

Do you physically take the set somewhere to be graded, or do you have to post it?  If so that adds two postal trips where damage could occur, that would add a bit of risk.

[terrymc4677]

I think it's a waste of time and assets. The market for graded lego is very very small. The reason people pay big bucks for retired lego sets is because they want to open them, build them, and then display that beautiful work of art on their coffee table, shelf, or work desk. Now I could see these people paying a little extra for a nice case to display their newly acquired prize possession in, but not for a box. Don't try to re-invent the wheel.

[glenbart]

In the u.k, you can send stuff to a P.O box, they want to keep their address secret, you have to pay for tracked insured mail, they are not as recognised as AFA, nowhere close in fact I'd say as having a good reputation, not that I'm saying they don't do a good job or anything, but anyone could open up a grading company. They do stuff for figures, they do a case for 8 figures, was thinking of getting 8 batman villians cased and graded, the cost if

[binici]

I've had a video game graded and it looks great, but not sure how LEGO sets would be, unless it is really rare and going to be prized.

For an average video game to be graded, it costs about $50. I'm guess $50-150 for certain LEGO sets (size and weight matters).

[@rtisan]

I`d say the only way you are going to make any money from this when you account for the price of grading and possibly shipping, is if you get large sets graded. I used to collect sports cards and can tell you even that isn`t "cheap" grading. Sets like 10179 are already worth a small fortune, so grading those makes sense, but going smaller size wise, your profits go down as well. If you funds have dried up, I`d recommend a break until you move some product. Nothing wrong with that. 

[mudcatsfan]

The whole point of grading is to be able to distinguish one item as being especially or appreciably better than all the other ones out there.

If 1% of the population is true mint 9.5/10 then that's a big deal. If 98% of the population is still mint, then who cares?

With modern Legos it isn't very hard to find a mint box.

Go back 10-20 years and you'd be onto something

[MartinP]

The whole point of grading is to be able to distinguish one item as being especially or appreciably better than all the other ones out there.

If 1% of the population is true mint 9.5/10 then that's a big deal. If 98% of the population is still mint, then who cares?

With modern Legos it isn't very hard to find a mint box.

Go back 10-20 years and you'd be onto something

That is very true. Every single time a retired set sells and the buyer opens it, that is one less MISB set that you have since they are no longer making it. Extend this over a period of time, and there will be fewer MISB sets on the market. If you were to grade a set, I would grade one that is rare and there are not a lot out there.

[nico1]

That is very true. Every single time a retired set sells and the buyer opens it, that is one less MISB set that you have since they are no longer making it. Extend this over a period of time, and there will be fewer MISB sets on the market. If you were to grade a set, I would grade one that is rare and there are not a lot out there.

With the caveat that the set had to have been interesting enough to open in the first place.  Just look at how many 30+ year old MISB basic sets are out there.

 

If you are grading a MISB set what would you be looking at?  The box condition, correct?  As the general feeling is that buyers generally don't care about box condition how would having a nifty acrylic box and a certificate change that?  For this to work you would have to pick your sets wisely and only choose the type of sets where buyers do care about the box condition.

[exciter1]

There's some interesting stuff coming out the past few weeks on the Star Wars collector's forums.  Apparently, a reseller (Toy Toni) was selling AFA graded figures to collectors for what appears to be almost 25 years (may have not been AFA stuff when they started).  I guess they slipped many fakes past AFA and got them certified MINT and sold them for big money.  It looks like it might be a big black eye on AFA.  I'll post more as I find stuff.  I asked the vintage figure collector's for some links, since I wanted to see if there were any official news announcements about it, or if it was just forum talk.

[TheOrcKing]

There's some interesting stuff coming out the past few weeks on the Star Wars collector's forums.  Apparently, a reseller (Toy Toni) was selling AFA graded figures to collectors for what appears to be almost 25 years (may have not been AFA stuff when they started).  I guess they slipped many fakes past AFA and got them certified MINT and sold them for big money.  It looks like it might be a big black eye on AFA.  I'll post more as I find stuff.  I asked the vintage figure collector's for some links, since I wanted to see if there were any official news announcements about it, or if it was just forum talk.

This part right here mentioning fakes is exactly what I was wondering about before. I mean if a person had the resources to, they could create an acrylic case with 'proper' appearing AFA graded sheets, stick a box in there with just enough junk to make it feel & sound legitimate, then stick it on eBay claiming the item is an actual AFA graded Cafe Corner or whatever. Grading an action figure is one thing because at least you can actually see the character whereas a Lego set would just be a box stuck into another one here.

[exciter1]

This part right here mentioning fakes is exactly what I was wondering about before. I mean if a person had the resources to, they could create an acrylic case with 'proper' appearing AFA graded sheets, stick a box in there with just enough junk to make it feel & sound legitimate, then stick it on eBay claiming the item is an actual AFA graded Cafe Corner or whatever. Grading an action figure is one thing because at least you can actually see the character whereas a Lego set would just be a box stuck into another one here.

These figures were actually passing AFA inspection and getting AFA certified. NUTS!

[TheOrcKing]

These figures were actually passing AFA inspection and getting AFA certified. NUTS!

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

These figures were actually passing AFA inspection and getting AFA certified. NUTS!

 

What they meant was they were the MINTest fake Lego figures they ever saw.

[jaisonline]

There's some interesting stuff coming out the past few weeks on the Star Wars collector's forums. Apparently, a reseller (Toy Toni) was selling AFA graded figures to collectors for what appears to be almost 25 years (may have not been AFA stuff when they started). I guess they slipped many fakes past AFA and got them certified MINT and sold them for big money. It looks like it might be a big black eye on AFA. I'll post more as I find stuff. I asked the vintage figure collector's for some links, since I wanted to see if there were any official news announcements about it, or if it was just forum talk.

I also collect vintage Star Wars (prototypes) so I know a little about this, Luckily, I never was into non-US stuff and only really focus on pre-production items,

During the Star Wars 1977-1984 heyday, Kenner licensed toy making to Palitoy in the UK. Kenner did the same in most major countries with other toy companies. About 20-25 years ago, a guy bought a HUGE lot of unused Palitoy Star Wars excellent condition cardbacks and plastic bubbles. Essentially, everything a carded Star Wars figure is packed in. The guy supposedly has been buying huge amounts of loose but mint Star Wars figures. He then sealed the figures in the cards and bubbles himself using some method. These were sold for the last 20 years or so.

In a nutshell, it would be like me buying a stash of unused Lego boxes, seals, baggies, and manuals. Then buying mint loose sets myself and sealing them in boxes myself.

Many figures were sold by him and then resold again and again. Unfort, these items passed AFA and UKG quality checks and were graded including a rare vinyl cape Jawa.

[jaisonline]

My funds for lego investing have dried up rather quickly this holiday season so ive been brain storming ways to increase my capital for legos. I was thinking that a profitable business approach could be as simple as buying a mint sealed set that has retired, sending it in to be professionally graded and then flip it on ebay. what do you guys think

Personally, I would only grade sets that were purchased around retail price, are now very valuable, have high demand, and I want to sell. Sets like 10179, Taj Mahal, Grand Carousal, Cloud City, Statue of Liberty, certain popular Toy Fair / SDCC sets, etc... On the flip side, grading is very expensive. I paid $80 with shipping (excluding shipping to AFA) for a standard 2-3 month turnaround for grading a sealed Kenner ESB Dagobah set. Since acrylic is used for the tombing process, size becomes very important (more so than weight). My 1977 Kenner Sandcrawler prototype costs it's previous owner about $300 (excluding initial shipping) for grading it since it is a huge rectangle.

Personally, I am against buying AFA graded Lego sets and 90% of other items like comic books and toys If it comes to rare items! then I can see paying extra for the AFA seal.

[exciter1]

I also collect vintage Star Wars (prototypes) so I know a little about this, Luckily, I never was into non-US stuff and only really focus on pre-production items,

During the Star Wars 1977-1984 heyday, Kenner licensed toy making to Palitoy in the UK. Kenner did the same in most major countries with other toy companies. About 20-25 years ago, a guy bought a HUGE lot of unused Palitoy Star Wars excellent condition cardbacks and plastic bubbles. Essentially, everything a carded Star Wars figure is packed in. The guy supposedly has been buying huge amounts of loose but mint Star Wars figures. He then sealed the figures in the cards and bubbles himself using some method. These were sold for the last 20 years or so.

In a nutshell, it would be like me buying a stash of unused Lego boxes, seals, baggies, and manuals. Then buying mint loose sets myself and sealing them in boxes myself.

Many figures were sold by him and then resold again and again. Unfort, these items passed AFA and UKG quality checks and were graded including a rare vinyl cape Jawa.

 

I thought you might know something about it, since I knew you hung out in the Vintage Forums on Rebelscum.com.  This whole scancal (though not the first) is crazy, but intriguing as well, since AFA is involved in it now.  Are there any actual articles that explain the situation and what is being done, or has it all been forum talk so far?

[jaisonline]

I thought you might know something about it, since I knew you hung out in the Vintage Forums on Rebelscum.com.  This whole scancal (though not the first) is crazy, but intriguing as well, since AFA is involved in it now.  Are there any actual articles that explain the situation and what is being done, or has it all been forum talk so far?

 

I was a semi-regular there until i came out of my Lego Dark Age

 

Here are the best links...

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/star-wars-collectors-archive/id359016334

(listen to ep 47 and the back story starts at 20:40 into it).  Mattias is one of the well-known vintage collectors out there. 

2 threads from rebelscum...

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1104900/

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1105395/

 

however, here are the earlier threads that started it all (very long read)

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11326&sid=7658f5ce9ed1c6ed118a7dfd9fbf4b29

http://www.starwarsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18756

 

now i should listen to my own advice usually given and...

 

feel free to sitemail me if you have further questions.

[exciter1]

Cool, thanks!

 

I also found this that gives a little background.  The open letter to AFA and UKG is also pretty interesting.

 

http://antoniemchowicz.wordpress.com/2013/12/28/antoni-emchowicz-aka-toytoni-zoomertoys-and-marsking-on-ebay/