Complaint Thread

[Mathew]

Honestly it’s hard for me to care about the Afghanistan situation when the rest of the westernized world is in such decay. 

[Mathew]

29 minutes ago, dennugsmello said:

Maybe, just maybe, with decades of pornography, birth control, nihilistic propaganda and usury you might get the cultural subversion underway. But, I guess we were unwilling for such an prolonged effort. 

 

“We” were unwilling because there’s more profit in letting the Taliban run things in Afghanistan. There’s more profit in subverting US citizens. I wonder if it’s possible for citizens of the western world to ever reject the subversion.  

Edited August 31, 2021 by Mathew

[gmpirate]

26 minutes ago, dennugsmello said:

I think this was intentional.

It certainly was not by accident.  There's certainly some incompetence going on over there, but things are going as planned -- sad as it is.

[$20 on joe vs dan]

38 minutes ago, dennugsmello said:

I'm friends with many service members who've fought in the region named Afghanistan. We've spoke at length and none of what's transpired was unexpected. The only reason most Afghans fought on our side was financial gain. Most of the tribes/people in the Afghan region prefer the Islamic values of the Taliban, to the secular progressive rot they believed the United States promoted. The peoples of the Afghan region never embraced a western democracy, nor should they be forced to. They are a feudalistic people comprised of many small tribes, not some nationalistic conglomerate to be ruled by a central leader.   

The western world is the antithesis to their cultural values. A true clash of cultures. Trying to force our mores on their population was never going work. Especially at the barrel of a gun. Maybe, just maybe, with decades of pornography, birth control, nihilistic propaganda and usury you might get the cultural subversion underway. But, I guess we were unwilling for such an prolonged effort. 

I think this was intentional. Most believed the Afghan army would fold, which was obvious to many soldiers on the ground. My guess is the United States calculated that a ruling Taliban gave the highest chance of "stability" in the region. These "leftover" weapons gave them advantage against any would be challengers, eliminating a possible power vacuum/civil war scenario where scores would die. This is the only scenario that makes logical sense to my circle of associates.

so you're saying the Taliban was the lesser of evils but since the western narrative has been "Taliban bad" for decades the US could not formally change stance so they went w/ the "oops...did we leave that behind" and international mockery.  

I guess looking negligent is the lesser evil than looking like a nation who's allegiances waffle

[MusiKyle]

5 minutes ago, Mathew said:

I wonder if it’s possible for citizens of the western world to ever reject the subversion.  

Thinking about rejecting the subversion made me imagine quicksand.  My understanding is that at some point in the sinking if you struggle and fight it you only sink faster and that relaxing only slows the sinking but doesn't stop it.  There's some point of no return, some event horizon.  If society is not yet at that point of no return then it might be possible to reject the subversion with a lot of coordinated work to undo the years of damage.  It would take a strong leader, a focal point to get people to rally behind and start a movement (see video below for some humor here).

If Western society is past the point of no return (I'm sure many believe that to be true), then it is hard to say what good the efforts are... would it speed up the decay?  Would it simply slow the inevitable?  Is it better to speak out to try and be that leader and risk being the nail that gets hit with the hammer or stay quiet and try to survive the decay while silently disagreeing with the direction.  Isn't that what happened in Germany around WWII?  People were scared to speak out.  They waltzed through the motions of their lives while disagreeing with the direction, only sharing privately amongst friends and family, but wouldn't publicly speak out and the government / secret police eventually took over?

 

 

[Mathew]

31 minutes ago, MusiKyle said:

Thinking about rejecting the subversion made me imagine quicksand.  My understanding is that at some point in the sinking if you struggle and fight it you only sink faster and that relaxing only slows the sinking but doesn't stop it.  There's some point of no return, some event horizon.

 

I shouldn’t but will:  There’s millions of us who think Covid is the event horizon. At least the vessel that takes us to that point. 

[$20 on joe vs dan]

2 minutes ago, Mathew said:

I shouldn’t but will:  There’s millions of us who think Covid is the event horizon. At least the vessel that takes us to that point. 

other then gripe about it here what tangible things have you done to support your view point?  Not trying to call you out cuz whatever floats your boat and all; but wondering if you're a naysayer or a naydoer

I believe you stated you already took the vaccine quite awhile ago....and nothing you posted suggests anything but being firmly plugged into "The system" you are railing against. If anything you seem to be thriving by being part of "The system"

[Mathew]

Thriving?  No surviving is more like it. See Musikyle’s apt quicksand analogy above.  

Edited August 31, 2021 by Mathew

[elmaslıefendi]

1 hour ago, dennugsmello said:

I'm friends with many service members who've fought in the region named Afghanistan. We've spoke at length and none of what's transpired was unexpected. The only reason most Afghans fought on our side was financial gain. Most of the tribes/people in the Afghan region prefer the Islamic values of the Taliban, to the secular progressive rot they believed the United States promoted. The peoples of the Afghan region never embraced a western democracy, nor should they be forced to. They are a feudalistic people comprised of many small tribes, not some nationalistic conglomerate to be ruled by a central leader.   

The western world is the antithesis to their cultural values. A true clash of cultures. Trying to force our mores on their population was never going work. Especially at the barrel of a gun. Maybe, just maybe, with decades of pornography, birth control, nihilistic propaganda and usury you might get the cultural subversion underway. But, I guess we were unwilling for such an prolonged effort. 

I think this was intentional. Most believed the Afghan army would fold, which was obvious to many soldiers on the ground. My guess is the United States calculated that a ruling Taliban gave the highest chance of "stability" in the region. These "leftover" weapons gave them advantage against any would be challengers, eliminating a possible power vacuum/civil war scenario where scores would die. This is the only scenario that makes logical sense to my circle of associates.

Superb analysis, you're spot on.

[HappyHawkeye]

2 hours ago, lazuli16 said:

On a lighter note, my complaint is the "new" Tumbler. I feel sorry for the guy a few years back that decided to start his reselling career by going big on that set. 

The leak is on Reddit

My 12-yo just watched The Dark Knight for the first time Saturday night and was asking about the old Tumbler set. Told him it was probably a pipe dream cuz it had risen so much on the secondary market.....so this is perfectly timed for me to be a hero with a surprise Xmas gift!

[fuzzy_bricks]

18 minutes ago, HappyHawkeye said:

My 12-yo just watched The Dark Knight for the first time Saturday night and was asking about the old Tumbler set. Told him it was probably a pipe dream cuz it had risen so much on the secondary market.....so this is perfectly timed for me to be a hero with a surprise Xmas gift!

Sure took long enough.

[HappyHawkeye]

30 minutes ago, fuzzy_bricks said:

Sure took long enough.

yes it did - I bailed on the few I had years ago and was happy to break even

[fuzzy_bricks]

Just now, HappyHawkeye said:

yes it did - I bailed on the few I had years ago and was happy to break even

Same here.  I might have one floating around that I intended to build.

[Alpinemaps]

58 minutes ago, HappyHawkeye said:

My 12-yo just watched The Dark Knight for the first time Saturday night and was asking about the old Tumbler set. Told him it was probably a pipe dream cuz it had risen so much on the secondary market.....so this is perfectly timed for me to be a hero with a surprise Xmas gift!

Take this crap to the I Love It thread.  We have no room for happiness in this thread.

🤣

[Shortbus311]

I'm very disheartened we pulled out and didn't confiscate heavy artillery, anti-air weapons, up to 300,000 military grade rifles/grenades/launchers, jets/planes, attack helicopters, and military grade humvees. The Afghans just turned it all over to the Taliban.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2021/08/30/what-military-equipment-left-behind-afghanistan-us/5658895001/

Here is some clips in this 4 minute video... people can say what they want about Ben Shapiro and his views, but these video clips don't lie.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

[junkrigger]

Spending $2.3x10^12 on one war, that achieved absolutely nothing over the last 20 years was such a better use of resources than say giving every child a full free 4 years of college, or rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, or continuing to pay down the national debt at a time when budget surpluses were possible and the debt was what only $5.5x10^12. Probably could have done a mix of all those things but glad we avoided those terrible ideas. Whoever started us down that path surely must have been a noble, compassionate and intelligent leader. 

[keymomachine]

4 minutes ago, Shortbus311 said:

Here is some clips in this 4 minute video... people can say what they want about Ben Shapiro and his views, but these video clips don't lie.

I mean, it's a $***show, but it's not Joe Biden's $***show, it's an American $***show. This is the work of three administrations kicking the can down the road, tossing the hot potato to the next guy. I keep seeing this politicized as Biden's failure or whatever, but the fact is this is a several month delay of Trump's plan. Trump was very keen on withdrawal from Afghanistan and apparently tried to get the military to withdraw all of it's troops from... everywhere? before he left office in January:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-election-memo-military-troops-b1848997.html

Plus there are basically dozens of articles on the why and how Trump effed this whole process up. But I think while we may disagree about whether it was a good idea to leave at all, we can agree it was always going to be messy. This was a hot potato.

[Alpinemaps]

. Whoever started us down that path, kept us there, kicked the can down the road, negotiated getting out, and pulled us out surely must have been noble, compassionate and intelligent leaders.

Fixed that for you.

[Shortbus311]

Spending $2.3x10^12 on one war, that achieved absolutely nothing over the last 20 years was such a better use of resources than say giving every child a full free 4 years of college, or rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, or continuing to pay down the national debt at a time when budget surpluses were possible and the debt was what only $5.5x10^12. Probably could have done a mix of all those things but glad we avoided those terrible ideas. Whoever started us down that path surely must have been a noble, compassionate and intelligent leader. 

You can't possibly know that the war in Afghanistan achieved absolutely nothing. Who can say how many more terrorist attacks on US soil would have happened if we never invaded or spent 20 year keeping them relegated to hillside caves.

For someone who claims to be all about the facts all the time you made a major assumption there.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

[junkrigger]

You can't possibly know that the war in Afghanistan achieved absolutely nothing. Who can say how many more terrorist attacks on US soil would have happened if we never invaded or spent 20 year keeping them relegated to hillside caves.

For someone who claims to be all about the facts all the time you made a major assumption there.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

Sure that’s something, although I would say once the highly funded intelligence apparatus and transportation security got its wake up call it probably could have thwarted any more attacks from box knife wielders. Doubtful any further attacks would have cost more than how many were lost in that 20 year war. Said leader probably deserves a sainthood for all the folks they sent home to providence too.

Point is we are back where we started so in that sense yes nothing achieved unless u call deferment something accomplished, I would only call that victory in a healthcare setting.

Wait no we are not back where we started now the box knifers have $83x10^9 worth of military equipment. Major accomplishment, and if that’s the level of achievement we are capable of it wouldn’t surprise me if we caused more “terririst” attacks from our years spent there.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk hi

[fuzzy_bricks]

[Shortbus311]

Sure that’s something, although I would say once the highly funded intelligence apparatus and transportation security got its wake up call it probably could have thwarted any more attacks from box knife wielders. Doubtful any further attacks would have cost more than how many were lost in that 20 year war. Said leader probably deserves a sainthood for all the folks they sent home to providence too.

Point is we are back where we started so in that sense yes nothing achieved unless u call deferment something accomplished, I would only call that victory in a healthcare setting.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk hi

Exactly why my original complaint was that the world's largest super power was defeated by tribesmen. There is no victory with just handing the country back to those who support terrorism. It cheapens the loss of life from our soldiers who have died there over the past 20 years when we are right back where we started 20 years ago as you said.

What makes you so sure that box cutters and jets would have been their next weapons used? We could have had any number of any kind of attacks take place. Over 20 years, 2372 US soldiers gave their life to keep terrorism out of this country by fighting them overseas. They each knew the risk when they took that oath of enlistment. The innocent lost on 9/11 didn't take an oath or voluntarily take that risk, and neither would any other who would have died from the next terrorist attack if we hadn't invaded.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

[junkrigger]

Exactly why my original complaint was that the world's largest super power was defeated by tribesmen. There is no victory with just handing the country back to those who support terrorism. It cheapens the loss of life from our soldiers who have died there over the past 20 years when we are right back where we started 20 years ago as you said.

What makes you so sure that box cutters and jets would have been their next weapons used? We could have had any number of any kind of attacks take place. Over 20 years, 2372 US soldiers gave their life to keep terrorism out of this country by fighting them overseas. They each knew the risk when they took that oath of enlistment. The innocent lost on 9/11 didn't take an oath or voluntarily take that risk, and neither would any other who would have died from the next terrorist attack if we hadn't invaded.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

I get what your saying and do appreciate the sacrifice made by those who serve, it does now seem sad but I’m sure there are things none of us know about that I hope were worth their sacrifice. But alas we none of us over a certain age are innocent when we live in a country that has done some pretty bad things over the years, not saying there are not far worse out there or that we don’t also do a lot of good but, well we do kinda use our military to ensure corporate profits and cheap oil and junk like that too, not to mention the messups in South and Central America. Alas now we can focus on the real struggles coming with China and it’s pawns, likely not direct military engagement but it will be subversive, underhanded, off the record but absolutely technology and economic struggle, that will finally ask for sacrifices from all of us in order to succeed, lest we find ourselves in a world I don’t even want to begin describing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jbad87]

32 minutes ago, junkrigger said:

I get what your saying and do appreciate the sacrifice made by those who serve, it does now seem sad but I’m sure there are things none of us know about that I hope were worth their sacrifice

There are many operations you will never read about that never made the news because who cares that a village in the middle of no where that never had power or running water suddenly did. You'll never know how many more children learned to read or write because what's it matter. Youll never know how many lives were saved thanks to our medical teams taking care of local populations. And you'll never know if someone sacrificing their life made a difference unless you've sworn to do the same. We dont go to these places because we want to. We go because the guy to our left and the guy to our right are going and weve sworn to protect each other.

This is a tough time for many currently serving and veterans alike. If you know someone that served in Afghanistan or any modern theater ask them how they're doing and lend an ear. If you've never been there or fought for your country dont speak your mind. Just listen.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Jbad87

[elmaslıefendi]

Too many Afghan civilians & American soldiers lost their lives in this pointless conflict. The scum that profited of this misery sure as hell didn't mourn for them.

Terrorism is an ideology, just like communism, veganism or nihilism, not something you can grasp and destroy. You can't bomb terrorism. You can only change the local circumstances, so that the ideology becomes obsolete. This change would have been an early withdrawal, they should have never started it in the first place, but that wasn't up to the people. It's too late for that now, over 20 years have passed & the objective (defeating terrorism) was a complete failure. 

When things got out of control it's debatable who became the villain in this conflict, with over 300k civilian casualties, women, children. Take a moment to imagine that number, so sad. The few politicians & lobbyists responsible for this war should be held accountable for their decisions, instead they're on the golf course enjoying their retirement. I'd feel ripped of & betrayed If I was a veteran.