Complaint Thread

[BrickLover80]

Just now, Shortbus311 said:

I agree that there is so much propaganda put out from CNN, MSNBC, FB, YouTube, Twitter and the rest of the left media that it is near impossible to find the truth nowadays.

Or they are reporting the truth and whatever else is put out by OAN etc is propaganda. Just something to think about.

That's the problem with the fragmented media. Everyone can find their niche, pretend that's the "truth" and the rest is "propaganda".  Democracy requires that we agree on the facts and then we argue over what conclusions to draw from these facts and how to weigh the different consequences of our actions (e.g. public health vs. individual freedom in the case of covid restrictions). But when we can't agree on the facts any more, we have a real problem.

 

[dennugsmello]

3 minutes ago, BrickLover80 said:

Or they are reporting the truth.

 

It does not matter whether the propagandist reports truth. That is insignificant. 

The great manipulation comes from the power choose what "truth" to publish and what "truth" to bury.  

 

[KvHulk]

Lul.

[Shortbus311]

Or they are reporting the truth and whatever else is put out by OAN etc is propaganda. Just something to think about.
That's the problem with the fragmented media. Everyone can find their niche, pretend that's the "truth" and the rest is "propaganda".  Democracy requires that we agree on the facts and then we argue over what conclusions to draw from these facts and how to weigh the different consequences of our actions (e.g. public health vs. individual freedom in the case of covid restrictions). But when we can't agree on the facts any more, we have a real problem.
 

I would argue that the side that controls the majority of the media in the country is the side that could most effectively suppress truth and propagate propaganda.

I wish there was a TV media outlet that properly investigated, published only facts and showed reactions from both sides. Unfortunately, no media company seems to feel that there is any money to be made in that so it probably won't happen.

The two people I mentioned above, John Sullivan and Leslie (Logan) Grimes, were definitely there, both by self admission. The MSM would have us believe that there were absolutely no non-Trump supporters there and if you say/think otherwise you will be "canceled".

Suppression of the ideas and beliefs of the opposition is the first step towards authoritarian rule. If you believe only having a two party system in America is bad wait until it becomes a one party system.

[chinothegeeko]

It’s not even an argument shortbus. You are 100% correct.

[lazuli16]

29 minutes ago, Shortbus311 said:

I wish there was a TV media outlet that properly investigated, published only facts and showed reactions from both sides. Unfortunately, no media company seems to feel that there is any money to be made in that so it probably won't happen.

Maybe you should start supporting your local public radio and tv station, 

[$20 on joe vs dan]

28 minutes ago, Shortbus311 said:

I would argue that the side that controls the majority of the media in the country is the side that could most effectively suppress truth and propagate propaganda.

I wish there was a TV media outlet that properly investigated, published only facts and showed reactions from both sides. Unfortunately, no media company seems to feel that there is any money to be made in that so it probably won't happen.

The two people I mentioned above, John Sullivan and Leslie (Logan) Grimes, were definitely there, both by self admission. The MSM would have us believe that there were absolutely no non-Trump supporters there and if you say/think otherwise you will be "canceled".

Suppression of the ideas and beliefs of the opposition is the first step towards authoritarian rule. If you believe only having a two party system in America is bad wait until it becomes a one party system.

Before the Covid-19 Pandemic, there was a Pandemic of lack of trustworthy news outlets...and with the recent populist President ...it has been quite the trifecta.

These are tumultuous times

 

1 minute ago, lazuli16 said:

Maybe you should start supporting your local public radio and tv station, 

y

[KvHulk]

Which truth is everyone looking for that they cannot find?

 

  

4 hours ago, lazuli16 said:

We do if it leads to a Small Wonder reboot.  I assume they broke down Vicki and turned her into a Twitter bot that unleashed the hell we're currently living in. 

A Small Wonder reference! I actually forgot that show existed. Congratulations, You just blew my mind.

Edited January 13, 2021 by KvHulk

[Bold-Arrow]

Comical relief : 

[dennugsmello]

16 minutes ago, lazuli16 said:

Maybe you should start supporting your local public radio and tv station, 

Yes, please support your local tv stations. 
 

 

By the way I know you said local “public” tv station so sorry to take you out of context. Just wanted an excuse to post this gem. 

[Alpinemaps]

3 hours ago, Shortbus311 said:

John Sullivan, confirmed BLM activist who was inside the capitol on the 6th. He claims in a interview that he was just there to document and find out for himself what the other side was all about, even though he has made anti-trump and anti-trump supporter comments on social media for years. He founded a group called Insurgance USA... somehow I don't buy his story.

Logan Grimes, another BLM activist who was arrested at the capitol on the 6th and was carrying a firearm at the time.

I am not saying that every claim is valid (I do not believe for a minute that the woman who was shot was Antifa), but there are verified cases. Feel free to Google these two guys and find out for yourself.
 

Do I believe that non-Trump supporters were the ringleaders of what happened at the Capitol?  Not for a moment.  Do I believe that there were bad actors there?  100%.

There had been talk for weeks about a demonstration in DC on the 6th.  I absolutely believe that non-Trump supporters, a multitude of nations, and our own three letter agencies all had bad actors in the crowd to not only observe, but to push and cause mayhem.

1 hour ago, KvHulk said:

Which truth is everyone looking for that they cannot find?

How about any truth?

There was a time when reporters reported facts, and let the viewers decide what that means.  Now, every "news" station blurs that line, with talking heads telling us what we're supposed to think about the "truth" they're reporting on.  And truth suppression is definitely there, in spades.

Instead of just reporting the facts, and then reporting new facts that bring new wrinkles to the story (and show just how complicated any story is), there is definite suppression of facts that "don't support the narrative."  And both sides do this all the time.

The truth would be reporting all the facts, that come from both sides of the equation.  Lying by omitting, because the facts suddenly don't make the narrative you're pushing look good is not good for anyone.

[$20 on joe vs dan]

I feel like the Associated Press is the best we currently have.

Their reporters are given special access (i think, only their reporter was allowed to follow the Senators as they were being evacuated.  I think, Mandated by a rule that a member of the AP needs to witness any congressional delegation.

Because of unique access rights, the AP is burdened w/ being the sole press representative and therefore especially obligated to be objective.

FAR from a perfect system...but the only existing mainstream option I see.

Up to Biden's administration to properly fund and put checks in place to rebuild the US media. AND I realize this is fraught w/ manipulation possibilities. But Clearly market forces alone cannot do it.

[waydog]

The moment anyone makes a post and talks about JUST the left wing media or JUST the right wing media, i know they are too biased and have already commited too much confirmation bias to take their opinion seriously. 

Both sides of the media are huge, rich, equal in audience and are chopping the stories up to fit their agenda.  Both sides of the media.  I am tired of this left wing/right wing debate.  They both suck A double S.

[Shortbus311]

The moment anyone makes a post and talks about JUST the left wing media or JUST the right wing media, i know they are too biased and have already commited too much confirmation bias to take their opinion seriously. 
Both sides of the media are huge, rich, equal in audience and are chopping the stories up to fit their agenda.  Both sides of the media.  I am tired of this left wing/right wing debate.  They both suck A double S.

I agree, even though I often point fingers, I know that doesn't really endear the people I am speaking to to my point.

Fox, CNN and MSNBC all omit truth in their "reporting" to fit whatever narrative they are trying to push.

I do find this new development with the Parlor app pretty interesting though and will be watching the lawsuit they have filed against Amazon closely. Amazon, Apple and Google all removed Parlor from their app stores claiming that they were allowing users to promote violence. But, over the past week on Twitter one of the most tweeted hashtags was #hangmikepence. Yet Twitter was not removed from their app stores for not preventing people from using that hashtag.

[$20 on joe vs dan]

12 minutes ago, waydog said:

The moment anyone makes a post and talks about JUST the left wing media or JUST the right wing media, i know they are too biased and have already commited too much confirmation bias to take their opinion seriously. 

Both sides of the media are huge, rich, equal in audience and are chopping the stories up to fit their agenda.  Both sides of the media.  I am tired of this left wing/right wing debate.  They both suck A double S.

The problem is that both side splinters as it approach their respective extremes.

I picture a graph curve that's parabolic (big central hump) in the middle and then increasing on the ends...neither side has a unified voice from their respective extremes.

The larger problem, why are we even talking about the extremes anyway...there was a time when these fanatics were generally viewed as "whack jobs" and not worthy of serious consideration...now they drive the headlines...which feeds the mindset of the other side think...see we're not like them...

[dennugsmello]

14 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

I feel like the Associated Press is the best we currently have.

Basically all news we consume originates from the Associated Press and Reuters. Both formed at around the same time in the mid 1800's. These two organizations centralized news and created the "journalistic" machine you see today. Two heads of the same serpent. 

23 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

"obligated to be objective."

"Oh sweet summer child."

25 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

Up to Biden's administration to properly fund and put checks in place to rebuild the US media. AND I realize this is fraught w/ manipulation possibilities. But Clearly market forces alone cannot do it.

"Oh sweet summer child."

 

 

I mean no offense Dan, honestly. I shouldn't be so harsh. I'm a bit blackpilled after a nearly ten year dive on this topic of media and journalism. Once you realize Its been a total fix since the ww1, it makes a man a tad cynical. 

[$20 on joe vs dan]

4 minutes ago, Shortbus311 said:

I agree, even though I often point fingers, I know that doesn't really endear the people I am speaking to to my point.

Fox, CNN and MSNBC all omit truth in their "reporting" to fit whatever narrative they are trying to push.

I do find this new development with the Parlor app pretty interesting though and will be watching the lawsuit they have filed against Amazon closely. Amazon, Apple and Google all removed Parlor from their app stores claiming that they were allowing users to promote violence. But, over the past week on Twitter one of the most tweeted hashtags was #hangmikepence. Yet Twitter was not removed from their app stores for not preventing people from using that hashtag.

I, too have been following the Parler thing; mainly becuz of our recent discourse on Free speech.

I think you stated that free speech without allowing for hate speech is not really free speech. 

Also that the tech giants have way too much power without proper regulation

Getting into philosophy a bit; do the ends justify the means? Was shutting up Trump on social media (what many want) justify how it was done?

[Alpinemaps]

13 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

I think you stated that free speech without allowing for hate speech is not really free speech. 

Also that the tech giants have way too much power without proper regulation

Getting into philosophy a bit; do the ends justify the means? Was shutting up Trump on social media (what many want) justify how it was done?

SCOTUS has said that hate speech is considered protected speech under the First Amendment.

Personally, I don't like the idea of censoring anyone, especially POTUS. It makes him into a martyr, honestly. But censoring one side, because you don't like what they say - that's something that's done in a dictatorship.  And yes, I understand the argument that Twitter/Facebook/etc are "private" companies (they're publicly traded companies). But big companies, that get too much power, have been broken up in the past.

And the slippery slope becomes too easy to go down.  Where do we draw the line?  What happens when your opinion is unpopular?  Do you really want to be muffled?

[CosmicSpeed]

I am here to complain that my COVID thread got overrun by politics (of which, yes I was a small part), which is obviously allowed here. And when we tried to talk about this still ongoing pandemic, it just turned into politics. Outcome = Locked thread 

To be quite honest, this **** still isn't going away. Id like everyone to know that my wife had it, and my kids probably did., but I didnt. It sucks and that is my complaint. But I also couldn't express to anyone online how i feel, ya know, to you guys. Of course I have my family, but still, you have to get stuff off your chest occasionally.

Working from home, I don't see my work family, so they kind of feel like a new online family. I know its sappy but you all are a pretty good online family, at least people less anonymous than reddit or other "social media"

Actually, not being hugely active on social media, and honestly being a 10-year married man with 2 daughters, I don't have many friends but I do thrive on communication. I appreciate this community in that we all typically post very mature conversations and weight with which we post our ideas and commentary, even thought it is just an LEGO investing forum. Its nice finding out little bits about everyone here and I appreciate it.

So, yeah, thats my complaint.

Edited January 13, 2021 by CosmicSpeed

[Mark Twain]

21 minutes ago, Alpinemaps said:

SCOTUS has said that hate speech is considered protected speech under the First Amendment.

Personally, I don't like the idea of censoring anyone, especially POTUS. It makes him into a martyr, honestly. But censoring one side, because you don't like what they say - that's something that's done in a dictatorship.  And yes, I understand the argument that Twitter/Facebook/etc are "private" companies (they're publicly traded companies). But big companies, that get too much power, have been broken up in the past.

And the slippery slope becomes too easy to go down.  Where do we draw the line?  What happens when your opinion is unpopular?  Do you really want to be muffled?

I would encourage all to read Amazon's response to Parler's lawsuit over being deplatformed. In it, Amazon cites the multiple breaches of their agreement and a number of threats posted by users that go well beyond hate speech and cross the line into breaking the law by calling for the murder of police, teachers, execution and assassination of elected officials, and genocide. 

https://www.pacermonitor.com/view/LHNWTAI/Parler_LLC_v_Amazon_Web_Services_Inc__wawdce-21-00031__0010.0.pdf?mcid=tGE3TEOA

As for trump being banned- He is free to start his own platform, buy his own server space, and create his own app where he can say what he wants to people who can stomach him. 

[$20 on joe vs dan]

13 minutes ago, CosmicSpeed said:

I am here to complain that my COVID thread got overrun by politics (of which, yes I was a small part), which is obviously allowed here. And when we tried to talk about this still ongoing pandemic, it just turned into politics. Outcome = Locked thread 

To be quite honest, this **** still isn't going away. Id like everyone to know that my wife had it, and my kids probably did., but I didnt. It sucks and that is my complaint. But I also couldn't express to anyone online how i feel, ya know, to you guys. Of course I have my family, but still, you have to get stuff off your chest occasionally.

Working from home, I don't see my work family, so they kind of feel like a new online family. I know its sappy but you all are a pretty good online family, at least people less anonymous than reddit or other "social media"

Actually, not being hugely active on social media, and honestly being a 10-year married man with 2 daughters, I don't have many friends but I do thrive on communication. I appreciate this community in that we all typically post very mature conversations and weight with which we post our ideas and commentary, even thought it is just an LEGO investing forum. Its nice finding out little bits about everyone here and I appreciate it.

So, yeah, thats my complaint.

you guys are the closest thing i have to social media on a daily basis...heck I first heard about the Capitol violence here.  I used to mod a NFL forum for years and that was my outlet until it got taken over by VOX and then ultimately the culture changed...till this day I have no idea how my user handle from that site (where it made sense) carried over to this one 

[Alpinemaps]

19 minutes ago, Mark Twain said:

I would encourage all to read Amazon's response to Parler's lawsuit over being deplatformed. In it, Amazon cites the multiple breaches of their agreement and a number of threats posted by users that go well beyond hate speech and cross the line into breaking the law by calling for the murder of police, teachers, execution and assassination of elected officials, and genocide. 

As for trump being banned- He is free to start his own platform, buy his own server space, and create his own app where he can say what he wants to people who can stomach him. 

It's definitely interesting, because it's similar to Apple deplatforming Epic for their end around on the Apple TOS for making in-game purchases.  For those of you that don't know, Epic, who makes FortNite, implemented their own in-game payment system, which goes around the iOS store.  Which has resulted in Apple banning Epic, and Epic suing Apple.

As for Trump creating his own platform, I have a couple of comments to say about that.  If you were banned, would you be able to afford your own platform?

And isn't that, to a degree, what Parler is?  It's it's own platform?  And it's been pulled.  I guess you could go the way of Gab, and completely do it all yourself.  But the cost barrier to that is immense.  And when you have single company that has such a complete control over a market or a service...you might be getting into monopoly territory.

One more thing about Trump - if this was "private citizen Trump", I wouldn't care.  But this is the President of the United States.  And like him or not, approve of what he says or not, ALL of our elected public officials should be granted access to these platforms.  Otherwise, these public officials are being censored.  And it's not in the best interest of our fellow citizens, not to have access to our elected officials.  Trump was even ordered by the courts to NOT block people on Twitter, to allow them free and equal access to him.  Let our elected officials stick their foot in their mouth; the consequences of that are not getting re-elected to public office.  We're a week away from him becoming a private citizen once again.  We really can't stomach one more week?

[$20 on joe vs dan]

24 minutes ago, Alpinemaps said:

It's definitely interesting, because it's similar to Apple deplatforming Epic for their end around on the Apple TOS for making in-game purchases.  For those of you that don't know, Epic, who makes FortNite, implemented their own in-game payment system, which goes around the iOS store.  Which has resulted in Apple banning Epic, and Epic suing Apple.

As for Trump creating his own platform, I have a couple of comments to say about that.  If you were banned, would you be able to afford your own platform?

And isn't that, to a degree, what Parler is?  It's it's own platform?  And it's been pulled.  I guess you could go the way of Gab, and completely do it all yourself.  But the cost barrier to that is immense.  And when you have single company that has such a complete control over a market or a service...you might be getting into monopoly territory.

One more thing about Trump - if this was "private citizen Trump", I wouldn't care.  But this is the President of the United States.  And like him or not, approve of what he says or not, ALL of our elected public officials should be granted access to these platforms.  Otherwise, these public officials are being censored.  And it's not in the best interest of our fellow citizens, not to have access to our elected officials.  Trump was even ordered by the courts to NOT block people on Twitter, to allow them free and equal access to him.  Let our elected officials stick their foot in their mouth; the consequences of that are not getting re-elected to public office.  We're a week away from him becoming a private citizen once again.  We really can't stomach one more week?

the problem is how can the country move on if a large percentage of the citizens think the election was a fraud? The current situation calls for a complete repudiation of Trump and therefore his claims. That won't convince everyone but is a first step. Democracy simply does not work if a large percentage think it's elections are full of fraud.

[Alpinemaps]

the problem is how can the country move on if a large percentage of the citizens think the election was a fraud? The current situation calls for a complete repudiation of Trump and therefore his claims. That won't convince everyone but is a first step. Democracy simply does not work if a large percentage think it's elections are full of fraud.

The media and politicians on both sides have hammered home this idea of interference and fraud for the last 4+ years. That will certainly sow the seeds of distrust.

People tend not to trust things they don’t know. The entire process needs to be transparent. But not just transparent, but the population needs to be educated.

I have no idea if things that occurred with ballots were fraudulent. There are things that seem “unusual” to me, but I also feel that’s because I’m not educated on how, say, Pennsylvania, runs their elections. I’m not familiar with 49 other state constitutions to know whether something was legal. I just don’t know.

But if we could have a little time after all of this to take a deep breath and explain things instead of yelling at one another, I think I’d feel better.

[$20 on joe vs dan]

Weaponizing Social Media is scary.

What if the heads of the Federal Reserve started to tweet what he/she was planning to vote? That would be clear misconduct because of the market moving power of their office.

How is this any different than the President using it to advance his re-election?

when Musk can tweet to his followers to join another platform and then the stocks for that platform take off...this stuff is getting really scary.