Alright BP, how should I handle this?

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

So I had another thread the other day about people shipping a lego set with just shipping paper around it. Unfortunately it happened again.

 

This time the damage was more severe. It was pretty much flattened.

 

It was a sealed, close to mint Zombies set for $105. I contacted the seller and here is his response:

 

"I'm sorry, that is the way the post office told me to wrap it. I can work something out with you and maybe give you a partial refund for damage to the box. I'm not sure what Ebay or Paypal's rules are on this situation. I did state no refunds and I cannot be responsible for the package once its shipped. I really have no control over how they handle the package. What if I refund you like $20 for the damage? "

 

So, a couple of things:

 

1. Paypal/Ebay would pretty much allow me to return it almost positive.

2. From my understanding, you are responsible for damage to it - insurance protects the seller. More importantly, if the damage was because you didn't use your brain when packaging it then it is your responsibility.

3. I really wanted it sealed in good condition. I don't know how much I care about the box - but it is more than just a bit of damage - its crushed to the point where I almost wonder if I should open it and make sure nothing is damaged inside.

 

So what do you all think - options:

 

1. Take $20 and get it sealed, but beat to hell for $85

2. Push back on the seller for a better discount or a full return

3. Ebay case which I think I will win.

 

What do you guys think? Feel free to let me know if anything I am saying is offbase. I will admit after two people doing this in a week I am a little pissed off, so its possible that I am overreacting. Thats why I have you guys!

[leaningjowler]

Garbage either get more off than 20.00 or send it back.... 

 

2. Push back on the seller for a better discount or a full return

3. Ebay case which I think I will win.

 

If you do plan on opening it make sure you can return if something is broken. 

[justafrog]

If you think with the partial discount it's worth it to you, take it.

 

If you don't, open an eBay case. Then CALL eBay and tell them that you've opened the case, explain the problem, and tell them you want return postage paid for, too. They will sometimes cover this themselves as a courtesy, they will sometimes make the seller cover it.

 

Leave appropriate feedback (I hope you have a buying account, don't use your selling account to purchase, or you leave yourself open to retaliatory purchasing feedback from the people you leave feedback for.)

 

Be aware that eBay tracks purchaser claims, refunds, and partial refunds through both eBay and PayPal. If you have "too many", even if every single one of them is valid, you risk the eBay bots flagging you as an undesirable buyer and cancelling your Buyer Protection privileges and/or buying privileges, temporarily at least (I don't know of any permanent bans like are sometimes handed out on Amazon to buyers).

[Quacs]

I would just demand a refund (with shipping covered of course) and return it in it's current condition since you don't know the extent of the damage inside the box.  If you open the box, haven't you materially affected the condition of the box?  That may not allow you to return the item for a full refund that's covered by eBay.

 

There's too much risk something was damaged in transit for my liking.

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

If you think with the partial discount it's worth it to you, take it.

 

If you don't, open an eBay case. Then CALL eBay and tell them that you've opened the case, explain the problem, and tell them you want return postage paid for, too. They will sometimes cover this themselves as a courtesy, they will sometimes make the seller cover it.

 

Leave appropriate feedback (I hope you have a buying account, don't use your selling account to purchase, or you leave yourself open to retaliatory purchasing feedback from the people you leave feedback for.)

 

Be aware that eBay tracks purchaser claims, refunds, and partial refunds through both eBay and PayPal. If you have "too many", even if every single one of them is valid, you risk the eBay bots flagging you as an undesirable buyer and cancelling your Buyer Protection privileges and/or buying privileges, temporarily at least (I don't know of any permanent bans like are sometimes handed out on Amazon to buyers).

 

I do have a buying account... unfortunately this one was bought on my selling. I broke my rule because it was a quick deal. In retrospect - oops. lol. Not going to do it again.

[citymorgue]

Personally what was your original plan for the set?  If it's just for playing around and display and have no intention of reselling, I would get a partial refund or something.

 

If not, open a case and return and get a full refund either through Ebay or Paypal.

 

Packaging always worries me about stuff like this.  I'm very particular about my boxes and like it to be in as good of condition as I can get it.  Although I understand some things do happen.

 

It seems like not only was the seller stupid about how to pack it, but the post office was absolutely to blame for the crazy mishandling.

 

Just my two cents

[justafrog]

Yeah, I've done that, too. Up to you, then, what feedback you end up leaving. I always want to let other buyers know what it's a seller who is really bad like this one -- it's one thing to screw up, take responsibility, and make it right -- those sellers will learn for next time. It's another to blame everyone else and tell you you can't return their fubar. Those guys tick me off.

[justafrog]

It seems like not only was the seller stupid about how to pack it, but the post office was absolutely to blame for the crazy mishandling.

 

 

Except for the clerk who allegedly told him how to pack this (and if such a clerk exists, I'd expect when he said, "How should I pack an item that comes in its own box?" the clerk was thinking of a more substantial box than our poor Legos come in), this is NOT the post office's fault and shows no mishandling. You can't send something so crushable through ANY delivery service and expect it not to get crushed. It's not reasonable.

 

If the item is not inherently crush-proof you have to make it so (I send minifigs in quadruple or more bubble wrap (one sheet does it, folded and taped properly) in a bubble mailer. You betcha those get the patootie crushed out of them by USPS, but it doesn't matter - they're crush proof. A Lego factory box is not.

 

Edited three times because I'm a dumb typist. :-D

[leaningjowler]

I don't think you can blame the post office some Lego boxes are pretty flimsy. You can't ship wrapped an item just wrapped in paper. Just a lazy seller....

 

 

Personally what was your original plan for the set?  If it's just for playing around and display and have no intention of reselling, I would get a partial refund or something.

 

If not, open a case and return and get a full refund either through Ebay or Paypal.

 

Packaging always worries me about stuff like this.  I'm very particular about my boxes and like it to be in as good of condition as I can get it.  Although I understand some things do happen.

 

It seems like not only was the seller stupid about how to pack it, but the post office was absolutely to blame for the crazy mishandling.

 

Just my two cents

[citymorgue]

Except for the clerk who allegedly told him how to pack this (and if such a clerk exists, I'd expect when he said, "How should I pack an item that comes in its own box?" the clerk was thinking of a more substantial box than our poor Legos come in), this is NOT the post office's fault and shows no mishandling. You can't send something so crushable through ANY delivery service and expect it not to get crushed. It's not reasonable.

 

If the item is not inherently crush-proof you have to make it so (I send minifigs in quadruple or more bubble wrap (one sheet does it, folded and taped properly) in a bubble mailer. You betcha those get the patootie crushed out of them by USPS, but it doesn't matter - they're crush proof. A Lego factory box is not.

 

Edited three times because I'm a dumb typist. :-D

 

 

Ok, I see your point, but we don't know exactly how it was shipped.  Was the Lego box inside a regular box? Did the box basically have paper wrapped around it?

 

If it was inside of a box, then yeah, there would be some mishandling.  I know boxes can get ruined, but if his box was that messed up, I can only imagine the condition of the actual shipping box.

 

I guess I should have clarified it a bit more.

 

I agree the clerk probably had no idea what he was talking about in regards to packing, but even still.

[gregpj]

Politely demand a full refund. If the seller has a problem with it, tell them to go after the shipper for the insured packaged. Insurance on shipping also covers damage to the product. If they didn't insure it, not your problem.

 

You *may* have to bite and pay return shipping, but from the sounds of it a big flat envelope should be good enough.

[justafrog]

Ok, I see your point, but we don't know exactly how it was shipped.  

 

 

From the original post:

 

"So I had another thread the other day about people shipping a lego set with just shipping paper around it. Unfortunately it happened again."

 

We do know how it was shipped: Lego box with "shipping paper" (presumably brown paper) wrapped around it.

[lowillsw]

So I had another thread the other day about people shipping a lego set with just shipping paper around it. Unfortunately it happened again.

 

This time the damage was more severe. It was pretty much flattened.

 

It was a sealed, close to mint Zombies set for $105. I contacted the seller and here is his response:

 

"I'm sorry, that is the way the post office told me to wrap it. I can work something out with you and maybe give you a partial refund for damage to the box. I'm not sure what Ebay or Paypal's rules are on this situation. I did state no refunds and I cannot be responsible for the package once its shipped. I really have no control over how they handle the package. What if I refund you like $20 for the damage? "

 

So, a couple of things:

 

1. Paypal/Ebay would pretty much allow me to return it almost positive.

2. From my understanding, you are responsible for damage to it - insurance protects the seller. More importantly, if the damage was because you didn't use your brain when packaging it then it is your responsibility.

3. I really wanted it sealed in good condition. I don't know how much I care about the box - but it is more than just a bit of damage - its crushed to the point where I almost wonder if I should open it and make sure nothing is damaged inside.

 

So what do you all think - options:

 

1. Take $20 and get it sealed, but beat to hell for $85

2. Push back on the seller for a better discount or a full return

3. Ebay case which I think I will win.

 

What do you guys think? Feel free to let me know if anything I am saying is offbase. I will admit after two people doing this in a week I am a little pissed off, so its possible that I am overreacting. Thats why I have you guys!

 

This seller is totally ignorant by telling you that was how the post office told him to pack it. Is he that retarded unless that his first rodeo on selling and shipping.   If this is a spring chicken there is zero excuse.  Right off the bat, from the email you attached, he is NOT taking responsibility.  He was probably offloading the crushbox to you when advertising NIB.  You should use every effort to get your money back, open a case on Ebay, and leave feedback so someone like that don't roam around Ebay.

[citymorgue]

From the original post:

 

"So I had another thread the other day about people shipping a lego set with just shipping paper around it. Unfortunately it happened again."

 

We do know how it was shipped: Lego box with "shipping paper" (presumably brown paper) wrapped around it.

 

That's what I get for quick reading through the post...  I retract my previous statement.  My apologies for the confusion.

 

Then it is most definitely on the seller who wrapped it up in paper.

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

From the original post:

 

"So I had another thread the other day about people shipping a lego set with just shipping paper around it. Unfortunately it happened again."

 

We do know how it was shipped: Lego box with "shipping paper" (presumably brown paper) wrapped around it.

 

 

That's what I get for quick reading through the post...  I retract my previous statement.  My apologies for the confusion.

 

Then it is most definitely on the seller who wrapped it up in paper.

 

I didn't make it particularly clear either, lol.

 

It was just shipped with two layers of brown paper around it. There is really no way anyone could have thought they were ok - I have never had a shipping clerk ever recommend putting anything that can be damaged in anything but a shipping box.

 

I am pretty sure the seller was trying to save time and money and decided to just pray USPS didn't have their part time wine makers with the big feet on duty. That prayer was not answered.

[c666187]

It is 100% the sellers responsibility to get the item to you in the condition described. I would return it and ask for a full refund via the eBay SNAD process.

 

Good luck!

[sadowsk1]

Did you ask before purchasing the method in which the item was shipped?  If you are concerned about how an item is shipped you should ask in advance.  Otherwise it sounds like you made the same mistake twice.

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

Did you ask before purchasing the method in which the item was shipped?  If you are concerned about how an item is shipped you should ask in advance.  Otherwise it sounds like you made the same mistake twice.

 

Is this sarcastic? Why would I have to ask them if they know how to properly ship an item? or are you saying that I didn't ask what condition the item was in?

[justafrog]

Is this sarcastic? Why would I have to ask them if they know how to properly ship an item? or are you saying that I didn't ask what condition the item was in?

 

Unfortunately, he seems to be serious since he's posted basically the same in both threads. I don't know where any eBay seller would come up with the notion that it is up to the buyer to make sure the item arrives safely, but it's complete nonsense.

 

Basic, effective protective packaging is the responsibility of all sellers. If the post office still manages to mangle it when it's packaged properly, that's STILL the seller's problem, and they should build in the cost of a small number of USPS damages/losses into their pricing.

 

This is not only common sense, it's perfectly clear under eBay and PayPal selling standards and both will back it up in case of a dispute.

[nolanfan34]

There is really no way anyone could have thought they were ok - I have never had a shipping clerk ever recommend putting anything that can be damaged in anything but a shipping box.

This. Most of them are usually pretty good at trying to upsell you on Priority mail flat rate boxes, or the boxes for a fee they have on hand. No way they recommended "just wrap that in some paper, nailed it!"

You were buying a NISB, I would open a case and try to get your money back.

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

Unfortunately, he seems to be serious since he's posted basically the same in both threads. I don't know where any eBay seller would come up with the notion that it is up to the buyer to make sure the item arrives safely, but it's complete nonsense.

 

Basic, effective protective packaging is the responsibility of all sellers. If the post office still manages to mangle it when it's packaged properly, that's STILL the seller's problem, and they should build in the cost of a small number of USPS damages/losses into their pricing.

 

This is not only common sense, it's perfectly clear under eBay and PayPal selling standards and both will back it up in case of a dispute.

 

Definitely with you. When shopping online, the whole point is that you can't see items so there is a certain level of trust. Yes part of that trust rides on the shipping carrier, but do you as a buyer trust shipping carriers? As a seller you have to - or else you would ride your horse and buggy to everyone's house to hand deliver their item. If you can make money doing that, more power to you.

 

Sadowsk1 - just playing Devil's Advocate (which is not really an impersonation anymore, I just straight up am the guy), do you ever complain about the way an item comes to you from a retail place you order offline? If the item was damaged severely in shipping, would you go complain to the carrier? furthermore, in a listing on target or amazon.com, there is no mention of the item's condition at all. So you could argue that there is no guarantee it wouldn't come destroyed.

 

 

Another BIG point here any naysayer would have to remember - have you ever asked a shipping carrier about an item you were shipping that was lost or damaged? Wanna know what they tell you?

 

"You need to contact the person who shipped the item to inquire about insurance, etc."

 

So that sort of sums up why is HAS to be the buyer's responsibility - especially on Ebay.

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

Well I gave the seller a chance:

 

He responded with this:

 

I guess I'd say open a dispute then and see what paypal says. I talked to them after messaging you and was told a frushed box was not my fault or responsibility. The situation really isn't fair to me as a seller either. I cannot control how usps handles a package. Now I would not onky be out the money, but the product as well.

 

I sent him this straight from the Ebay pages:

 

Remember, the seller is responsible for the item until it is in the buyer's possession. eBay protects buyers if items arrive damaged, and sellers should consider insuring their items to protect themselves against damage or loss.

[Diabolos80]

Box condition shmox condition. Dude you're getting a $150 set for $85. Wait a year, sell it new in bags for $175. Seriously the box is not worth $65, is it? I havent checked BL but maybe you could find one there.

I know you were probably looking to quick flip it.. But with the $20 refund there's still some wiggle room for you.

[cvail8]

Open an item not as described case. Especially if the condition is mentioned in the listing.

[justafrog]

Also, I know I've posted several warnings about over-using Buyer Protection, but the other side of the coin is a seller WILL find search ranking lowered, selling limits lowered, selling privileges suspended, and selling privileges revoked, if they lose too many cases, like DoNot's seller is going to lose this one if he responds to the case with anything other than "return for a full refund".

 

eBay is far from perfect, their daily computer glitches in one area or another are a source of annoyance, the constantly updating/changing policies are a challenge, I could go on and on, but to give them credit where it's due, their honest-to-goodness goal is to make a great deal of money and they know the best way to do that is to make things equally fair for honest buyers AND competent sellers, and they're always looking to hit that balance point. Never perfect, but pretty dang good for most transactions most of the time.