A Serious Discussion about Brick Classifieds

[brickmaster]

Haha, where else can you sell $10,000 worth of LEGO for $50 (discussion/not final value).  That is nice because the people who are much more active will have even lower rates while less active or lurking members like me really can't complain.

[Quacs]

I was just about to ask if I can sell my Lego speedo!

That must chafe pretty bad...

[emes]

So Ed and I spend time together on the weekends and obviously a lot of talk is about the website.  This is always a good thing and always very productive.  As time goes by on the site and certain things come up, ideas change, new questions come up and we discuss what we should do about it.  Keep a steady course or change direction and build a new plan of action.  Many people here have been waiting to see what Brick Classifieds is and what it has become.  That is all great, but one thing Ed and I have started to talk about is what do you expect out of it and honestly, what do we expect out of it.  This is what I am talking about.

 

A brand new site has come out recently, BrickOwl.  It is put together very nicely, has a nice feature set, has been talked about many times here and has lower rates than both eBay and Bricklink, but yet, I sure don't know of many people from here or anywhere that have been buying or selling from there.  Sure there are some stores there, but I am wondering and concerned as to why more of you have not been trying it out.  What do you have to lose?  I thought it would have been overloaded by now. Is everyone waiting for Bricklink 2.0?

 

We offered the ability to advertise here on this site and I have yet to really get anyone to do it?  If there are so many serious Lego dealers, why wouldn't people want to advertise their store to get people to try and buy their stuff.  Everyone that visits this site is not a seller.  We have quite a large number of visitors that come here looking for deals, so why would you not want to invest in your business to get more eyes on your products and make transactions so that you can buy other inventory?  This really doesn't bother me, but I have just been shocked that no one really want to advertise their eBay business, etc.

 

Like I said earlier, we kick a bunch of ideas around.  Here is something we would like to know.  Would you be open to paying a yearly fee to list as many items as you want and have no commission at all.  That way, there is no need for any type of billing, transactions, nothing.  You list the sets, sell you sets, and deal with your customers.  In the end, if you are a casual or serious seller, you would be able to save a boatload in fees/commissions.   

 

Why would this be good?  Well for one, it will help to site continue to grow.  It would be reinvested back into the site to pay for the data, purchase more locations in the future, more contests, advertising and possibly help build a kick butt mobile app.  It would also be positive to make people want to make sure they get their pennies worth and list sets to make their investment worth while.  All these sites that don't charge anything and have free listings are nice, but many people bail, leave their listings, post crazy prices, etc.  Could help with buyers knowing that the sellers have to be paying members in order to have listings.

 

I am sure Ed will post more of his thoughts later, but we want to know where all of you are at.  Launching something like this is no small feat. Everyone has been patient and we appreciate that.

 

I've read this thread a couple of different times and followed much of the discussion. 

 

I'd be willing to use BC if the value was there and it helped move items. I've sold things to individuals on this site, so I know first-hand that the buyers are here. This is not a slam, but I think many people here think of themselves as investors, when in fact they are more likely about 10% investor 90% into LEGO, which both means that there are buyers who will pay for things, but which also results in values of items at times exceeding market determined value. You'll have people that will list outrageously priced items, and the market will most likely punish them through those items not selling. I'd be prepared for some of that, which will likely diminish people's interest in using BC if they don't see things moving.

 

I want to add a couple of additional thoughts to the discussion.

 

First, when you do this, I would initially roll it out to a select, pilot group of perhaps about 10 people that you know are going to post things. Then I'd survey both buyers and sellers to see what works and doesn't work. Gradually over time as the unintended consequences are detected and worked-out, I'd phase in small groups over time, until eventually opening it to all membership. You were probably thinking along these lines anyway.

 

Second, while I don't think at the moment as I understand it that BC would dramatically affect my sales (LEGO being only about 10%-20% of what we sell, which I don't really see changing), one thing that would be useful to me is something completely different than BC. Whether you've chosen this role or not, you guys have established in the marketplace some level of expertise with respect to LEGO buying and selling. My wife sells high-end designer purses, shoes, clothing, etc.. One of the things that we really benefit from is called http://mypoupette.com/index.php . Basically, they offer a mark of authentication for designer items that is shown on your listing and is highly valued in the designer item resale market. I think you could do something similar for LEGO sets based on quality of the photos/listing quality and I think you could charge for it. Here is MyPoupette's fee list: http://www.mypoupette.com/fees.html . 

 

I don't think you could charge the same fee structure that MyPoupette charges, but you could charge enough to make it a worthwhile source of revenue to feed the growth of the site. I'd pay for this. I'm also not saying the issue is selling of fake LEGO...rather I think some kind of 3rd party assessment of listing quality, photos, shipping practices, etc... might be useful.

[Jeff Mack]

I've read this thread a couple of different times and followed much of the discussion. 

 

I'd be willing to use BC if the value was there and it helped move items. I've sold things to individuals on this site, so I know first-hand that the buyers are here. This is not a slam, but I think many people here think of themselves as investors, when in fact they are more likely about 10% investor 90% into LEGO, which both means that there are buyers who will pay for things, but which also results in values of items at times exceeding market determined value. You'll have people that will list outrageously priced items, and the market will most likely punish them through those items not selling. I'd be prepared for some of that, which will likely diminish people's interest in using BC if they don't see things moving.

 

I want to add a couple of additional thoughts to the discussion.

 

First, when you do this, I would initially roll it out to a select, pilot group of perhaps about 10 people that you know are going to post things. Then I'd survey both buyers and sellers to see what works and doesn't work. Gradually over time as the unintended consequences are detected and worked-out, I'd phase in small groups over time, until eventually opening it to all membership. You were probably thinking along these lines anyway.

 

Second, while I don't think at the moment as I understand it that BC would dramatically affect my sales (LEGO being only about 10%-20% of what we sell, which I don't really see changing), one thing that would be useful to me is something completely different than BC. Whether you've chosen this role or not, you guys have established in the marketplace some level of expertise with respect to LEGO buying and selling. My wife sells high-end designer purses, shoes, clothing, etc.. One of the things that we really benefit from is called http://mypoupette.com/index.php . Basically, they offer a mark of authentication for designer items that is shown on your listing and is highly valued in the designer item resale market. I think you could do something similar for LEGO sets based on quality of the photos/listing quality and I think you could charge for it. Here is MyPoupette's fee list: http://www.mypoupette.com/fees.html . 

 

I don't think you could charge the same fee structure that MyPoupette charges, but you could charge enough to make it a worthwhile source of revenue to feed the growth of the site. I'd pay for this. I'm also not saying the issue is selling of fake LEGO...rather I think some kind of 3rd party assessment of listing quality, photos, shipping practices, etc... might be useful.

 

Thanks for your comments, but if you can tell from reading through the thread that people really don't care to pay anything and for the most part we are already giving it away for free (i mean the ability to possibly sell $10,000 of LEGO for $50, that is basically free )  What do you think people would pay for this service?  What would you pay to get a 5 Star Quality rating if your listing deserved it?  What do you feel the quality report options would be?  Also, how do they handle it when a user feels that their rating should be higher?

[Diabolos80]

Yeah I kinda think a rating system for listing quality is a bit weird. Maybe not full-on superfluous, but weird. A seller rating is important, but I think a quality listing will speak for itself.

Then again, it might be a good tool to encourage sellers to put a bit more effort and accuracy into their descriptions. There's nothing worse than having to pass up a good deal because of a weak item description.

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

Thanks for your comments, but if you can tell from reading through the thread that people really don't care to pay anything and for the most part we are already giving it away for free (i mean the ability to possibly sell $10,000 of LEGO for $50, that is basically free )  What do you think people would pay for this service?  What would you pay to get a 5 Star Quality rating if your listing deserved it?  What do you feel the quality report options would be?  Also, how do they handle it when a user feels that their rating should be higher?

 

These are the questions I was about to ask Part of the reason (in my interpretation) you all are not offering a bunch of extra stuff is the time involved to do it. It seems like this would be a lot of trouble without a lot of other employees. How much would it really add?

 

As a buyer, all I care about is the product. I may be in the minority, but I don't give a crap about Ebay's "top rated seller" and power seller. You know who is top rated on Ebay? Toys R Us. And they are worthless in any matters pertaining to anything other than overcharging you.

 

Designer cloths/bags I can see. Lego, I just don't see the benefit, at least not here. I would think there are other important things that would benefit the site over the time and work it would take to baby listings and stuff of that nature.

 

Just a thought though - and feel free to correct me if I am wrong about my assumptions Ed/Jeff. Others may have a different view on whether they would buy from a "five star listing" as well.

[Fcbarcelona101]

I feel somewhat better when someone is top rated or so, but if I can find the item cheaper and better described with another user that is not I would go with that any day. The top rated system is more for benefit of the seller than the buyer, IMO.

[Darth_Raichu]

 

Second, while I don't think at the moment as I understand it that BC would dramatically affect my sales (LEGO being only about 10%-20% of what we sell, which I don't really see changing), one thing that would be useful to me is something completely different than BC. Whether you've chosen this role or not, you guys have established in the marketplace some level of expertise with respect to LEGO buying and selling. My wife sells high-end designer purses, shoes, clothing, etc.. One of the things that we really benefit from is called http://mypoupette.com/index.php . Basically, they offer a mark of authentication for designer items that is shown on your listing and is highly valued in the designer item resale market. I think you could do something similar for LEGO sets based on quality of the photos/listing quality and I think you could charge for it. Here is MyPoupette's fee list: http://www.mypoupette.com/fees.html . 

 

I don't think you could charge the same fee structure that MyPoupette charges, but you could charge enough to make it a worthwhile source of revenue to feed the growth of the site. I'd pay for this. I'm also not saying the issue is selling of fake LEGO...rather I think some kind of 3rd party assessment of listing quality, photos, shipping practices, etc... might be useful.

 

When I read these paragraphs on mypoupette, I immediately thought of the "proactive about scams" (http://community.brickpicker.com/topic/4756-lets-get-proactive-about-scams-on-ebay/) thread.  Diabolos80 and DonotInsertIntoMouth, this listing verification thing may be a new business venture for you.

[Jeff Mack]

Our thought process would be more like eBay where yes, people will later get badges as their positive feedback increases.  I do agree that the quality of images is a major thing.  For example, I would really love if people do stuff like this (quick, dirty example).  This will really show people that they currently have the set.  Its the real deal and I would feel very good about buying this set from someone.

 

 

I do understand where you are going with the rating stuff, but we would really have to see how much that would improve the site.  Also, if there are a bunch of people that have MISB, that would be a lot of 5 Star Ratings and would kind of lessen the overall effect of the feature.  I am hoping that people realize that Brickpicker has members that know how to properly sell their sets and people will want to come here first to buy sets based on price and service from their sellers.

 

Edit.. Darn I hate when the phone flips the images.

[emes]

Thanks for your comments, but if you can tell from reading through the thread that people really don't care to pay anything and for the most part we are already giving it away for free (i mean the ability to possibly sell $10,000 of LEGO for $50, that is basically free )  What do you think people would pay for this service?  What would you pay to get a 5 Star Quality rating if your listing deserved it?  What do you feel the quality report options would be?  Also, how do they handle it when a user feels that their rating should be higher?

 

Yeah, the value for free thing is one of the things that I think is both great and annoying about sites like this.

 

I could see on some things paying 1% of the proposed sale amount being worthwhile. I think there'd be some things to work out here (specifically auctions vs. BINs, and some other things). For example, if I were selling a set for $300, I'd have no problem paying $3 for the mark of approval if the listing deserved it. I think lots of different ideas could be kicked around here in terms of compensation.

 

As far as how MyPoupette works, I think it's binary. Either you get the authentication or you don't. My wife knows much more about this than I do. As far as how they handle someone being rejected, I don't really know. One thing I do know that would be helpful to you from a manpower perspective is they enlist people as designer representatives...in other words, people who can review items and make determinations about whether a listing gets the mark of approval.

[emes]

Our thought process would be more like eBay where yes, people will later get badges as their positive feedback increases.  I do agree that the quality of images is a major thing.  For example, I would really love if people do stuff like this (quick, dirty example).  This will really show people that they currently have the set.  Its the real deal and I would feel very good about buying this set from someone.

 

photo-2.JPG

 

I do understand where you are going with the rating stuff, but we would really have to see how much that would improve the site.  Also, if there are a bunch of people that have MISB, that would be a lot of 5 Star Ratings and would kind of lessen the overall effect of the feature.  I am hoping that people realize that Brickpicker has members that know how to properly sell their sets and people will want to come here first to buy sets based on price and service from their sellers.

 

Edit.. Darn I hate when the phone flips the images.

 

See that's the thing though, NISB is pretty clear what that means, but MISB is very open to interpretation. I'd pay for a 3rd party assessment of that, given that it added some value to the listing and was reasonably priced.

 

I'm not saying that this will be a huge source of revenue necessarily, but every little bit counts, and it will help both the marketplace as well as the site to grow.

[Jeff Mack]

So if I enlist you to do ratings for us.  What would rate these, just so I can get an idea of how you think this could work for LEGO items.


Lego Technic Set 41999 4x4 Crawler Limited Edition With CHROME WHEELS NEW MINT

Lego Technic Co-Creation model (41999) - Exclusive Edition - New in Box
 
and especially this one:
Lego Technic 41999 4x4 Crawler Exclusive Edition BNIB, sealed, free shipping!!!

 

 

Now the 3rd one has MUCH more detail than the others, but yet, honestly they are all new.  So the big question is, should the website be open to being screamed at if we tell people that their listings are worse than others and then they feel they don't sell more because we said their listings are worse. 

 

 

I just don't know if there is truly enough differences in overall listings if people post a few quality photos and have good descriptions. 

[emes]

These are the questions I was about to ask Part of the reason (in my interpretation) you all are not offering a bunch of extra stuff is the time involved to do it. It seems like this would be a lot of trouble without a lot of other employees. How much would it really add?

 

As a buyer, all I care about is the product. I may be in the minority, but I don't give a crap about Ebay's "top rated seller" and power seller. You know who is top rated on Ebay? Toys R Us. And they are worthless in any matters pertaining to anything other than overcharging you.

 

Designer cloths/bags I can see. Lego, I just don't see the benefit, at least not here. I would think there are other important things that would benefit the site over the time and work it would take to baby listings and stuff of that nature.

 

Just a thought though - and feel free to correct me if I am wrong about my assumptions Ed/Jeff. Others may have a different view on whether they would buy from a "five star listing" as well.

 

TopRated on eBay doesn't mean quality necessarily. It means that they ship quickly, offer a return policy, and reasonable DSRs. PowerSeller is also not intended to indicate quality...rather it's more an indicator of volume.

 

With designer stuff the authentication is about whether an item is genuine or not. With LEGO it would be more about selling practices, listing quality, photo quality, etc.. 

[Jeff Mack]

The listings will have moderation, like we have stated before, no listing with generic photos will be allowed, they will be told to put a real photo(s) or the listing will just stay in limbo.  I guess we can have a feature that if members are putting together truly dynamic listings, we can mark them as such, much like certain articles got put into the Brickvesting Blog category on the home page, etc.  Personally yes, I appreciate when people go the extra mile, it means a lot to me, and says something about the person.  I just don't know if people would pay anything extra for that.

[Diabolos80]

Emes, how does the reviewer verify that a designer bag is legit? And what happens when an approved listing turns out to fraudulent?

I'm just curious because I've never heard of this concept.

[stephen_rockefeller]

These are the questions I was about to ask Part of the reason (in my interpretation) you all are not offering a bunch of extra stuff is the time involved to do it. It seems like this would be a lot of trouble without a lot of other employees. How much would it really add?

 

As a buyer, all I care about is the product. I may be in the minority, but I don't give a crap about Ebay's "top rated seller" and power seller. You know who is top rated on Ebay? Toys R Us. And they are worthless in any matters pertaining to anything other than overcharging you.

 

Designer cloths/bags I can see. Lego, I just don't see the benefit, at least not here. I would think there are other important things that would benefit the site over the time and work it would take to baby listings and stuff of that nature.

 

Just a thought though - and feel free to correct me if I am wrong about my assumptions Ed/Jeff. Others may have a different view on whether they would buy from a "five star listing" as well.

agreed on the TRU eBay store!! 5 star garbage!!!!

[TheOrcKing]

Okay, here is me going on a completely different tangent from the topic. Ahem.

You got yourself a mint-in-sealed-box San Diego Comic-Con exclusive Micro-build Bag End set?! Dude, you rock!

[Jeff Mack]

Okay, here is me going on a completely different tangent from the topic. Ahem.

You got yourself a mint-in-sealed-box San Diego Comic-Con exclusive Micro-build Bag End set?! Dude, you rock!

 

Yes and i will sell it to you for $400 to show people here that Brickpickers will buy from one another at very high prices

[TheOrcKing]

Yes and i will sell it to you for $400 to show people here that Brickpickers will buy from one another at very high prices

Wow! Only $400! Let me open up my piggy bank. Let's see....one....two....three....three and a quarter....

I'll get back to you on that....maybe.

Anywho, I have been waiting with much anticipation for the Brick Classifieds ever since and that excitement has not waned in the slightest. This will be the best thing since canned Spam! Well, pretty close. I love my Spam!

[emes]

Emes, how does the reviewer verify that a designer bag is legit? And what happens when an approved listing turns out to fraudulent?

I'm just curious because I've never heard of this concept.

 

On mypoupette.com there is a list of people who are authorized. People will check that list. They will send a CnD if their logo is used by an unauthorized seller. It has happened often, and they have a good relationship with eBay.

[emes]

So if I enlist you to do ratings for us.  What would rate these, just so I can get an idea of how you think this could work for LEGO items.

Lego Technic Set 41999 4x4 Crawler Limited Edition With CHROME WHEELS NEW MINT

Lego Technic Co-Creation model (41999) - Exclusive Edition - New in Box

 

and especially this one:

Lego Technic 41999 4x4 Crawler Exclusive Edition BNIB, sealed, free shipping!!!

 

 

Now the 3rd one has MUCH more detail than the others, but yet, honestly they are all new.  So the big question is, should the website be open to being screamed at if we tell people that their listings are worse than others and then they feel they don't sell more because we said their listings are worse. 

 

 

I just don't know if there is truly enough differences in overall listings if people post a few quality photos and have good descriptions. 

 

 

Assuming this was targeted to me and you're being illustrative of the challenges to doing this.

 

I like the 3rd one best because they've taken the time to give pictures of every angle of the box. The other two are just sloppy, and I feel like that sloppiness would carry-over into shipping practices, etc... 

 

Overall I think all 3 could be improved, and I think if you were to go down this path you need to document relevant standards for how a listing gets the seal of approval. Those standards can be published, and remember, the way I'm thinking about this it would be the sellers choice to apply for the mark or not. If people feel like they can do just fine without it then that should be ok too.

 

More than anything, I'm suggesting this because it's a way for you to capitalize on your expertise and the perception of that expertise that you've earned in the market. Having a thread that points out potential scam sellers is somewhat the reverse of this...here you'd be taking a more positive approach where sellers could take a proactive step to ensure to their buyers that the item they're representing is what they'll actually receive.

 

And no, I'm not interested in doing the ratings, but I'll bet there are people here with more expertise with LEGO than I who'd be great at it.

[akohns]

Assuming this was targeted to me and you're being illustrative of the challenges to doing this.

 

I like the 3rd one best because they've taken the time to give pictures of every angle of the box. The other two are just sloppy, and I feel like that sloppiness would carry-over into shipping practices, etc... 

 

Overall I think all 3 could be improved, and I think if you were to go down this path you need to document relevant standards for how a listing gets the seal of approval. Those standards can be published, and remember, the way I'm thinking about this it would be the sellers choice to apply for the mark or not. If people feel like they can do just fine without it then that should be ok too.

 

More than anything, I'm suggesting this because it's a way for you to capitalize on your expertise and the perception of that expertise that you've earned in the market. Having a thread that points out potential scam sellers is somewhat the reverse of this...here you'd be taking a more positive approach where sellers could take a proactive step to ensure to their buyers that the item they're representing is what they'll actually receive.

 

And no, I'm not interested in doing the ratings, but I'll bet there are people here with more expertise with LEGO than I who'd be great at it.

Emes, I'm glad to see you chiming in on this discussion. I think these approved listings would be a great idea for high end sets. Personally I like to sell lots of used sets and it's kind of silly to go through the trouble of spending that much time on a listing. But when I do get ahold of something that caliber it would be nice to have that option.

[Ed Mack]

Yeah, the value for free thing is one of the things that I think is both great and annoying about sites like this.

 

I could see on some things paying 1% of the proposed sale amount being worthwhile. I think there'd be some things to work out here (specifically auctions vs. BINs, and some other things). For example, if I were selling a set for $300, I'd have no problem paying $3 for the mark of approval if the listing deserved it. I think lots of different ideas could be kicked around here in terms of compensation.

 

As far as how MyPoupette works, I think it's binary. Either you get the authentication or you don't. My wife knows much more about this than I do. As far as how they handle someone being rejected, I don't really know. One thing I do know that would be helpful to you from a manpower perspective is they enlist people as designer representatives...in other words, people who can review items and make determinations about whether a listing gets the mark of approval.

This is an interesting possibility. We could charge a fee to be "BrickPicker Certified." Basically, the item would have to be described and photographed to a certain high standard. Feed back could also play a role later on as well.

[Diabolos80]

I just think you're opening yourself to trouble by stamping approvals on listings. What happens when you approve a listing, i buy it, and it arrives incomplete?

[ExoBro94]

This is an interesting possibility. We could charge a fee to be "BrickPicker Certified." Basically, the item would have to be described and photographed to a certain high standard. Feed back could also play a role later on as well.

 

Yes. Basically, that's all I can say. Yes. This would make a world of difference and would actually be super beneficial for me, speaking from a strictly personal standpoint.