A Serious Discussion about Brick Classifieds

[Ed Mack]

I explained i see no problem if it is being heavily monitored... Its hard to say, but my limitation is based on my personal thought that you will not monitor the spam (potential) and that the newest listing will be seen on top of page... 

 

I must say i have no idea how your classifieds looks graphically and hence the limits... If you plan to approve each individual listing with Ed I see no use in limits...

 

 

 

 

Well I would personally like 1% commision (in either brickpoints or cash equivalent of the sold listing that both must confirm (buyer/seller to minimalize fraud) after item is sold.

 

And each member gets default xx (maybe 10?) listings (per username) and can buy more listing places with brickpoints/cash perhaps? 

 

 

I am just throwing ideas around here. 

Each listing will have to be approved by Jeff or I.  We require actual pictures to post an item on our site.  No generic photos.  Very cheap listings will have to be addressed differently than other listings...Maybe a "Bargin Bin" sort of thing.  We are not trying to sell parts here like Bricklink or Brick Owl.  We are about sets.

[Jeff Mack]

Yeah this is absolutely 1 bigger part of the reason of limits, 2nd is above in my post.

 

 

I think percentage commission after sale is done is best but its hard to fix this on this site since alot can be sidelined by private messages email etc. So that would need alot of work to fix such loopholes. 

 

If Ed you are ''set in stone'' about paying upfront based on  value you want to sell the items I can see ''alot'' of low prices and then you contact member thats selling who will say 

 

''The costs are actually XX more'' or shipping will suddenly be double of what actually is etc... So unless everyone will report them to you and Jeff and you will truly strictly IP and more ban them from the site I sense this will be a huge annoying problem and big turn off for buyers and then eventually sellers.

 

You will work out your deal and make the agreement.  I don't see how people will charge double all of a sudden or how paying the fee after makes any difference.  If they mess around with you and change prices, you don't pay them and report them.  It will all be on record as long as it goes through the system.

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

To list.  There are no auctions.  You pay to list a Buy it Now LEGO set.  One time fee.  I don't care what you sell it for if cheaper prices were negotiated behind the scenes.

 

That's the whole point of this discussion.  But remember this, for a very simple fee structure like that, you will not get a lot of bells and whistles and certainly zero guarantees.  You pay to list an item.  It is up to you and the other party to arrange payment and shipping options.  We might give you some tools to use, but we take no responsibility for transactions, just like newspapers.  

 

This makes more sense anyway. How many people work at Ebay? A lot more than 2. This is the best way for it to be done to keep you all engaged on the normal site stuff. We can be responsible and just be smart about what we do and don't do.

 

As far as listing limits, I don't see an issue at all - how hard would it be to just do like you do now and delete or ban a spammer after the fact?

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

You will work out your deal and make the agreement.  I don't see how people will charge double all of a sudden or how paying the fee after makes any difference.  If they mess around with you and change prices, you don't pay them and report them.  It will all be on record as long as it goes through the system.

 

Yes - this is exactly my point. Why are there not spammers in the forum? Because you all do a great job (and the moderators) of weeding them out. This will be the same way. I don't see a problem that screams needing a limit.

[Alcarin]

You will work out your deal and make the agreement.  I don't see how people will charge double all of a sudden or how paying the fee after makes any difference.  If they mess around with you and change prices, you don't pay them and report them.  It will all be on record as long as it goes through the system.

 

Dont you remember Ebay shipping costs and then added fees for them also?

 

Same reason is here.

 

- Lets go in practice and say I am a cheap guy who tries to cheat Brickpicker as much as possible.

 

- Lets also for the sake of argument pick Ed's decision/idea that fees are paid upfront as per brickpoint for every dollar listed (not sure how much is that in cash but I guess 0.01$ ?

 

- I list a Helm's Deep set for 80$ thats 80 brickpoints right or 0.8$ 

 

- Customer contacts me and asks for shipping costs 

 

- I tell customer shipping costs are 50$ (while actually they are 25$ for example)

 

- Customer stil lfinds it cheaper than anywhere else and buys

 

- I sell Helm's Deep for 105$ and cheat Brickpicker for 25 brickpoints or 0.25$

 

 

 

Its an example, and even if shipping charges are put upfront on the listings I can put there whatever I want unless you will also monitor that.

 

 

 

 

We are not trying to sell parts here like Bricklink or Brick Owl. We are about sets.

 

You mean I will not be allowed/able to sell my vintage collection of huge lot of Dragon Knights with a set? 

[Guest eightbrick]

You mean I will not be allowed/able to sell my vintage collection of huge lot of Dragon Knights with a set? 

You could probably earn more selling them as individual sets anyway. Anytime you bundle things as a lot, you can usually make more money selling individually unless it is something rare like a complete MISB collection of a line.

[Jeff Mack]

Guys here is a "working" idea of what the home page will look like.  I am trying to demonstrate to you that we are actually making it work like and look like a newspaper classifieds system.  Its very simple, when you add you listings whether it be local, ebay, amazon, brickowl, etc.  They will appear.  Nice and easy color coded, etc.  There are also trades and as you can see, there are ways to hi-lite your listing if you want to make it stand out.  Maybe this will answer some questions.  No i am not posting 10 other screenshots at this time, soon enough there will be a feature demonstration thing, but I am not ready for that yet.  The reason we are asking this question now, so that we can finalize our plan, and I can either turn things on or shut things off.

 

Its a fun display that works well on mobile devices.  You will find yourself scrolling and scrolling to see whats new.  Like Ed just said, there will only be REAL PHOTOS, no generic photos are allowed or you listing comes down.  You want to encourage trust with buyers and get them here, then post good listings.  Garbage will be taken down until they are fixed.  If you have an ebay listing, it will take you there, same for any other non Brick Classifieds listing.  All feedback for those listings will stay on those sites, feedback will only be fro BC listings.

 

Have some faith in us everyone.  This isn't a joke for us and it will shape where the site will go from here.

 

[Ed Mack]

Yeah this is absolutely 1 bigger part of the reason of limits, 2nd is above in my post.

 

 

I think percentage commission after sale is done is best but its hard to fix this on this site since alot can be sidelined by private messages email etc. So that would need alot of work to fix such loopholes. 

 

If Ed you are ''set in stone'' about paying upfront based on  value you want to sell the items I can see ''alot'' of low prices and then you contact member thats selling who will say 

 

''The costs are actually XX more'' or shipping will suddenly be double of what actually is etc... So unless everyone will report them to you and Jeff and you will truly strictly IP and more ban them from the site I sense this will be a huge annoying problem and big turn off for buyers and then eventually sellers.

We are trying to keep this simple.  We tossed around $1 per listing, but that punished low end sellers.  We are not talking about huge money here.  Even if you sell a 10179 on the Classifieds for $2500, it will cost a seller $12.50 to list it if they buy the discounted points.  If people try to scam this system, they will be permanently booted from the site.  Trying to scam us of a couple of dollars would be a very sad situation.  I would like to believe that we give people such a deal to post their items that they will see that scamming is a waste of time and energy.

[Alcarin]

We are trying to keep this simple.  We tossed around $1 per listing, but that punished low end sellers.  We are not talking about huge money here.  Even if you sell a 10179 on the Classifieds for $2500, it will cost a seller $12.50 to list it if they buy the discounted points.  If people try to scam this system, they will be permanently booted from the site.  Trying to scam us of a couple of dollars would be a very sad situation.  I would like to believe that we give people such a deal to post their items that they will see that scamming is a waste of time and energy.

 

 

Believe me as long as its not 0.00000$ someone will want lower and find it worth trying to scam it lol

 

But i would like you to think about my practical example of Helm's Deep selling above.

[Guest eightbrick]

That front page looks pretty good Jeff! If you went with that, in addition to the search bar it might be cool if we could browse by seller, method of sale (eBay etc.), new/used/incomplete, theme, price, etc. Although knowing you, you probably are way ahead of me and have a lot of that already planned out.

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

Guys here is a "working" idea of what the home page will look like.  I am trying to demonstrate to you that we are actually making it work like and look like a newspaper classifieds system.  Its very simple, when you add you listings whether it be local, ebay, amazon, brickowl, etc.  They will appear.  Nice and easy color coded, etc.  There are also trades and as you can see, there are ways to hi-lite your listing if you want to make it stand out.  Maybe this will answer some questions.  No i am not posting 10 other screenshots at this time, soon enough there will be a feature demonstration thing, but I am not ready for that yet.  The reason we are asking this question now, so that we can finalize our plan, and I can either turn things on or shut things off.

 

Its a fun display that works well on mobile devices.  You will find yourself scrolling and scrolling to see whats new.  Like Ed just said, there will only be REAL PHOTOS, no generic photos are allowed or you listing comes down.  You want to encourage trust with buyers and get them here, then post good listings.  Garbage will be taken down until they are fixed.  If you have an ebay listing, it will take you there, same for any other non Brick Classifieds listing.  All feedback for those listings will stay on those sites, feedback will only be fro BC listings.

 

Have some faith in us everyone.  This isn't a joke for us and it will shape where the site will go from here.

 

bc_example2.jpg

 

I absolutely love it. It is like a souped up newspaper and I think it looks great. I can imagine spending a lot of time browsing through different sections and random listings. I sometimes get bored of listings on site like Ebay where you have to click to get the non-mudane information. This really adds color - I love it. I can tell it will be great mobile wise as well. Gonna be on the Ipad a lot using it.

 

We are trying to keep this simple.  We tossed around $1 per listing, but that punished low end sellers.  We are not talking about huge money here.  Even if you sell a 10179 on the Classifieds for $2500, it will cost a seller $12.50 to list it if they buy the discounted points.  If people try to scam this system, they will be permanently booted from the site.  Trying to scam us of a couple of dollars would be a very sad situation.  I would like to believe that we give people such a deal to post their items that they will see that scamming is a waste of time and energy.

 

Unfortunately people may scam the system - but booting will take care of that. The reason it happens so much on Ebay is they don't boot people enough. I look at it just like the forums.  There aren't a ton of people posting links to their Ebay auctions or trying to sell stuff in a forum now, so whatever is happening or whatever you all are doing is working.

 

I feel like that will transfer straight over to the classifieds.

[Ed Mack]

Believe me as long as its not 0.00000$ someone will want lower and find it worth trying to scam it lol

 

But i would like you to think about my practical example of Helm's Deep selling above.

Listen, many people won't have to pay anything to list items and many high volume people can list their sets for one monthly fee.  If Jeff and I were so interested in every last dime, do you think we would give people all the information that we do?  This is a nice feature and we are not doing it to become the next Bill Gates.  I appreciate that you worry about scammers.  Maybe I will make you in charge of listing approvals.

[Alcarin]

Listen, many people won't have to pay anything to list items and many high volume people can list their sets for one monthly fee.  If Jeff and I were so interested in every last dime, do you think we would give people all the information that we do?  This is a nice feature and we are not doing it to become the next Bill Gates.  I appreciate that you worry about scammers.  Maybe I will make you in charge of listing approvals.

 

 

I just want you to make enough cash some day (sooner rather than later ) that brickpicker will pay for itself I really like the dedication and ESPECIALLY time input... time is one of the most valuable resources in our life time and giving it away for such a thing is really inspiring to me since I know I would not bother so much myself but i love to help when i spot such people like you 2

 

I know i will report them instantly, but I am just trying to give alot of different stuff so you can make the best decision possible to have the least problems as possible

[comicblast]

Your non-US data costs us over $20,000 annually to obtain. We asked for nothing from members.

First of all, this number is a shocker for me...I was thinking you guys invested way less, just because I don't think I know anyone with as much dedication to anything than you two (Ed and Jeff). Secondly, not to point any fingers, but I don't think anyone should be criticizing what Jeff and Ed are doing here. They're doing it because they love BrickPicker, and they want to make it better for users, sacrificing sleep, and that very large number, for us.

I know Ed said that BP is one of the TOP 5 most visited LEGO websites, and that is outstanding. Great job on that!

 

I love the direction that BrickPicker is going, and just now, taking a look at the sample of BC, I love it all the more. Until it is up and running, I see no reason whatsoever that we should be complaining. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. 

 

There is just one thing that I wouldn't mind being cleared up though. The purpose of Brick Classifieds is to advertise our listings that we have on other sites, if I understand this correctly. Would there also be a feature where we could sell directly on BrickPicker? Having to pay an eBay/PayPal fee as well as the small BC fee makes selling on Brickpicker more expensive if we go that route.

 

Once again, I really appreciate what you guys do on BrickPicker. Even if BC is a failure, it won't stop me from continuing to visit!!                (<- My emoticons cannot express my gratitude)

[Alcarin]

First of all, this number is a shocker for me...I was thinking you guys invested way less, just because I don't think I know anyone with as much dedication to anything than you two (Ed and Jeff). Secondly, not to point any fingers, but I don't think anyone should be criticizing what Jeff and Ed are doing here. They're doing it because they love BrickPicker, and they want to make it better for users, sacrificing sleep, and that very large number, for us.

I know Ed said that BP is one of the TOP 5 most visited LEGO websites, and that is outstanding. Great job on that!

 

I love the direction that BrickPicker is going, and just now, taking a look at the sample of BC, I love it all the more. Until it is up and running, I see no reason whatsoever that we should be complaining. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. 

 

There is just one thing that I wouldn't mind being cleared up though. The purpose of Brick Classifieds is to advertise our listings that we have on other sites, if I understand this correctly. Would there also be a feature where we could sell directly on BrickPicker? Having to pay an eBay/PayPal fee as well as the small BC fee makes selling on Brickpicker more expensive if we go that route.

 

Once again, I really appreciate what you guys do on BrickPicker. Even if BC is a failure, it won't stop me from continuing to visit!!                (<- My emoticons cannot express my gratitude)

 

 

He said both is possible....

[Ed Mack]

 

 

There is just one thing that I wouldn't mind being cleared up though. The purpose of Brick Classifieds is to advertise our listings that we have on other sites, if I understand this correctly. Would there also be a feature where we could sell directly on BrickPicker? Having to pay an eBay/PayPal fee as well as the small BC fee makes selling on Brickpicker more expensive if we go that route.

 

 

Yes, you will be able to directly sell your items on this site through personal listings...trade sets as well.  You can also list your eBay and Amazon listings for free as well as the new Brick Owl.  You can even post Bricklink listings if you pay the small advertising fee.

[comicblast]

He said both is possible....

Yes, you will be able to directly sell your items on this site through personal listings...trade sets as well.  You can also list your eBay and Amazon listings for free as well as the new Brick Owl.  

Thanks! Sounds good!

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

Listen, many people won't have to pay anything to list items and many high volume people can list their sets for one monthly fee.  If Jeff and I were so interested in every last dime, do you think we would give people all the information that we do?  This is a nice feature and we are not doing it to become the next Bill Gates.  I appreciate that you worry about scammers.  Maybe I will make you in charge of listing approvals.

 

[Darth_Raichu]

Its not that you hit a nerve, its just really, the amount that we Ed and I invest in this site should be proof enough that our goal is to get people here to view your listings. If the yearly fee was a whopping $20, do we really need to unload all of the statistics, advertising plans. You are looking at less that $2/month for no commission fees. How much could that possibly put back in your pocket and yet help fund the site to do even more so that you can benefit even more. Is that worth the risk? In my opinion, everyone here would win, win, win. Even like someone else suggested $50 is still not that much for the return could be. You sell one set, you can make your investment back. People blow $50 on going to dinner for an hour our two. Going to the a 3D iMax movie for 2 hours. But yet, something to invest in your business is questionable to people. If anyone is skeptical of us at this point I don't know what to tell you.

 

I see your points but it was not personal, it was business. Meaning automatic number crunching in my head which lead to the need for more data / information via my questions. Plus, I can't help it since my brain is skeptical by design :D

It was probably better if you had put a price point up front, I would have been able to quantify my response with how much it would benefit my business.

 

As for interest level, of course I will try it. However, just like any other business venues, you won't see me jump and praise it until I see concrete evidence that it works for me. Fair ?

[Ed Mack]

I see your points but it was not personal, it was business. Meaning automatic number crunching in my head which lead to the need for more data / information via my questions. Plus, I can't help it since my brain is skeptical by design :D

It was probably better if you had put a price point up front, I would have been able to quantify my response with how much it would benefit my business.

 

As for interest level, of course I will try it. However, just like any other business venues, you won't see me jump and praise it until I see concrete evidence that it works for me. Fair ?

As I stated earlier, we will give everyone ample opportunity to try it out for free.  It also gives us the opportunity to jack up the prices if it is a huge success.  

[justafrog]

Thanks for posting the mock-up -- I had a much more boring vision in my head, I like the current reality much better. 

 

One of the things that has made me successful as a seller over the years is being ready to jump on low-risk "try and see" options as they come up.

 

This is definitely a low-risk try-and-see option that I can't imagine any sensible reason to pass up (at the VERY least the free eBay and Amazon pointer ads, etc.)

 

It does get a bit wearying to have people claim anyone with a little enthusiasm or a positive attitude is a filthy boot-licker just looking to curry favor with the Mack Brothers because... er... well, I'm sure those folks think there's some reason. Maybe if I post 3 more agreement posts y'all will send me a set of steak knives? 

[stackables]

Here are a couple of points and questions that are running through my head.  Forgive me if most points were addressed.  I haven't read all 9 pages.

 

Using a tier system, how would the fees be distinguished between a seller who sells large sets and one who sells small sets (minifigs, polys,etc.)? Wouldn't a seller who sells just minifigs be negatively affected by a tier volume pricing? Does this make sense?

 

I think a couple members have trouble getting over the concept of paying fees for selling sets on a site when most lego forums allow you to post for sale threads for free. If I wanted to sell a lego set (which I haven't done), I could just go to a site like bricklink and make a thread for free. 

 

Being strictly a collector at this point.  I will go to the site I can get the set I want for the best price.  Hopefully that turns out to be here.  Knowing the seller has more advantages than just buying from some anonymous seller on ebay but I have a feeling it will be harder to score good deals here.  Even if a seller posts a good deal, it will most likely be snatched up quickly by savvy members.

 

just my 2 cents

[Ed Mack]

Thanks for posting the mock-up -- I had a much more boring vision in my head, I like the current reality much better. 

 

One of the things that has made me successful as a seller over the years is being ready to jump on low-risk "try and see" options as they come up.

 

This is definitely a low-risk try-and-see option that I can't imagine any sensible reason to pass up (at the VERY least the free eBay and Amazon pointer ads, etc.)

 

It does get a bit wearying to have people claim anyone with a little enthusiasm or a positive attitude is a filthy boot-licker just looking to curry favor with the Mack Brothers because... er... well, I'm sure those folks think there's some reason. Maybe if I post 3 more agreement posts y'all will send me a set of steak knives? 

Jeff and I are nice guys and we like to hear constructive criticism from intelligent members.  Mr. Slappy was banned today for being an idiot.  For someone who said he didn't care about being banned, he has tried 20 times today to get back on the site.  Maybe he can develop one on his own.   I'm sorry that some members think that it is sucking up if you like something we do.  The Classifieds will be a nice option for members.  They will help small time resellers as well as Power Sellers on eBay/Amazon promote their items.  

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

Jeff and I are nice guys and we like to hear constructive criticism from intelligent members.  Mr. Slappy was banned today for being an idiot.  For someone who said he didn't care about being banned, he has tried 20 times today to get back on the site.  Maybe he can develop one on his own.   I'm sorry that some members think that it is sucking up if you like something we do.  The Classifieds will be a nice option for members.  They will help small time resellers as well as Power Sellers on eBay/Amazon promote their items.  

 

I totally wanted to get a pool together on how long it would be until he was banned. I assume it was by IP - hopefully he won't try to make a new account Your nickname "Mr Slappy" also made me lol.

 

Your last sentence is an important point - there is at least something for everyone with it. I don't think there is anyone who couldn't benefit from it (provided they spend the time to list which wont be that bad).

 

I think the format will help people doing crazy undercutting of everyone else. That is what I hate on bricklink - if you are selling a sealed complete set, why would anyone buy yours if someone else has one for a dollar cheaper below yours. Here, with the pictures and style, the listings will be more unique and less cut and paste like Ebay/bricklink can be.

[Ed Mack]

Here are a couple of points and questions that are running through my head.  Forgive me if most points were addressed.  I haven't read all 9 pages.

 

Using a tier system, how would the fees be distinguished between a seller who sells large sets and one who sells small sets (minifigs, polys,etc.)? Wouldn't a seller who sells just minifigs be negatively affected by a tier volume pricing? Does this make sense?

 

I think a couple members have trouble getting over the concept of paying fees for selling sets on a site when most lego forums allow you to post for sale threads for free. If I wanted to sell a lego set (which I haven't done), I could just go to a site like bricklink and make a thread for free. 

 

Being strictly a collector at this point.  I will go to the site I can get the set I want for the best price.  Hopefully that turns out to be here.  Knowing the seller has more advantages than just buying from some anonymous seller on ebay but I have a feeling it will be harder to score good deals here.  Even if a seller posts a good deal, it will most likely be snatched up quickly by savvy members.

 

just my 2 cents

The tier system was just a members idea, but it was and is an option for us.  Our system at the moment is based on ONE BRICKPOINT PER DOLLAR ADVERTISED, with the option to buy discounted Brickpoints.  Jeff talked about an upfront fee, but that was just a hypothetical question, not what we were planning on using.  The Brickpoint plan enables many members to post for FREE.  Even if they run out, they can buy discounted BPs that would make commissions a half of a percent if so desired.  

 

The Brick Classifieds are a nice fringe benefit for members.  We do not expect to make millions by selling LEGO sets here.  We have to charge something in order to keep it legit.  These other forums you speak of will not be anything like what we have to offer.  They are forums, this is an interactive sales tool, not unlike eBay or Bricklink.  

 

I cannot promise that people will post items at fair prices.  I can only hope they pass on the saving from commissions to the buyers.