A Serious Discussion about Brick Classifieds

[Spartikis]

I would probably not sell if there was a yearly fee. As small to medium sized investor i dont always sell on a regular basis. When i do sell i might unload an entire theme or multiple of one set in a matter of a few weeks and then go dormant again for months or even a year or more and its hard to predict when set will retire or its value will hit peak. However, im sure some people with regular sales would love the idea.

 

May offer to different methods, you can choose a per sale fee for the small fish like me and the big fish can go with a yearly fee.

 

Also, I have never heard of Brickowl, thanks for the info, i will be sure to check it out.

[Fcbarcelona101]

I would not sell if there was a yearly fee. As small to medium sized investor i dont always sell on a regular basis. When i do sell i might unload an entire theme or multiple of one set in a matter of a few weeks and then go dormant again for months or even a year or more.

I have never heard of Brickowl, i will be sure to check it out.

I don't think you can make that decision without knowing the amount of the fee. I am small time myself, but say I sell $ 1,000 on Ebay per year, they will keep $ 100. If the yearly fee here is $50 I have already saved some money. (This is just an example)

[Jeff Mack]

Folks,

 

    Can we make a new Forum for classifieds for a week or 2?  Like a simple newspaper style listing as many other sites have?  Make it free, so we get honest feedback on transactions.   It would "cost" you x amount of $ in lost revenue, but you, and more importantly--us would get an invaluable market study. This would help us all get a feel for the traffic and prices/process we can expect. I would be willing to sell for MUCH less than what I list things for on ebay in hopes of driving sales and traffic to this site, which I love-- and use daily.  As a minimum standard I would proffer the need 50 real posts in the forums, before you can list an item--no bumping threads unless there is a price change, and 1 active listing (with multiple items) per member---until the real classified section is ready to launch.

 

No

[willy431]

I take it that you already have some time into a real "classified" section then.  Can we try that for a week for free?  And if the answer to that is still no--I'll post my final step down in the negotation (since I am busy at my day job)--can you post a screen shot of what it would look like?     You sure do drive a hard bargain!

[Fcbarcelona101]

To simple & they wouldn't make any money from that.......

You know to pay there huge data bill

I assume you work for free??? Of course everyone knows that eBay and Bricklink are both non-profits doing things out of the kindness of their heart. Give me a break.

[willy431]

I have no problem paying them for classified service, or in general--- just for the regular service they provide here--and offered to contribute directly many times, which they have refused.  I hope they make a huge success here, and a ton of money for the countless hours they put in here.  I think they can either make money from classifieds, and WILL eclipse bricklink very quickly for complete sets---or keep improving their Alexa numbers--and sell the site to IB and retire.

[Fcbarcelona101]

Just delete my posts like usual.

The only ones we delete are those that include foul language.

[LEGO HULK]

I find it quite amazing that people want data, and service for free. Based off Fcbarcelona101's example fo a $50 a year fee, (just an example!!!), and you sold your Techinic 41999 set for $500 on ebay, that would be the same fee to ebay which none of you seem to have a problem with.  But then here, you can go the rest of year and have ZERO,  yes ZERO fees, so the rest goes in your pocket.  Plus then the owners can then use that money to invest into the site like they have many times already.

 

SuperLegoTroll, you are a class act. I am going to write eBay later and say, please stop charging fees, SuperLegoTroll says he shouldn't have to and doesn't need to on his other forum sites.  I am sure they will cave in, same with Bricklink.  These guys, like many others are trying to run businesses, they were just asking for feedback. 

[sadowsk1]

The classifieds sound interesting.  I like the comparison pricing example between the savings of brickpicker and ebay.  I'm looking forward to seeing the prototype.

[thombockerman]

I would like to see this take off. What I'm looking for in the next couple years is to list some pirates sets and Harry potter sets for under the brick picker price point, selling to other members here. I want to be able to make a good return and I'm not looking for top market value. In exchange for a lower than eBay price I'm hoping to sell to a fellow collector or investor quickly and hassle free without spending much time trying to use eBay and dealing with idiots scamming. I'm ok with selling a couple queen Ann's revenge for 200 now if I could be pretty much sure it would go smooth

[Alcarin]

I find it quite amazing that people want data, and service for free. Based off Fcbarcelona101's example fo a $50 a year fee, (just an example!!!), and you sold your Techinic 41999 set for $500 on ebay, that would be the same fee to ebay which none of you seem to have a problem with.  But then here, you can go the rest of year and have ZERO,  yes ZERO fees, so the rest goes in your pocket.  Plus then the owners can then use that money to invest into the site like they have many times already.

 

SuperLegoTroll, you are a class act. I am going to write eBay later and say, please stop charging fees, SuperLegoTroll says he shouldn't have to and doesn't need to on his other forum sites.  I am sure they will cave in, same with Bricklink.  These guys, like many others are trying to run businesses, they were just asking for feedback. 

 

 

First, noone demanded Ed and Jeff to create this site and offer it for ''free'' (only consuming our time etc)... Noone ever demanded ANYTHING as far as I saw (and i read most of the forums!) 

 

We are all writing our ideas and thoughts out here nothing else....

 

 

 

 

 

As i said the biggest problem with this site selling system (whatever it will be) is the fact it actually educates our buyers and as such contradicts the profit type of selling... (unless  you are one of those lucky 40%+ discount finders)

 

It is against common logic of capitalism (kinda) to educate buyers about price (data comparison) and then trying to ''undercut'' other similar sites (Ebay) with different fee system. 

 

To me that holds little logic.

 

 

So prediction for the opening and a few months down the road is that here we will mostly see collections and old vintage LEGO being sold (50%+) and very little MISB stuff.

 

 

But thats only my thoughts...

[Fcbarcelona101]

First, noone demanded Ed and Jeff to create this site and offer it for ''free'' (only consuming our time etc)... Noone ever demanded ANYTHING as far as I saw (and i read most of the forums!) 

 

We are all writing our ideas and thoughts out here nothing else....

 

 

 

 

 

As i said the biggest problem with this site selling system (whatever it will be) is the fact it actually educates our buyers and as such contradicts the profit type of selling... (unless  you are one of those lucky 40%+ discount finders)

 

It is against common logic of capitalism (kinda) to educate buyers about price (data comparison) and then trying to ''undercut'' other similar sites (Ebay) with different fee system. 

 

To me that holds little logic.

 

 

So prediction for the opening and a few months down the road is that here we will mostly see collections and old vintage LEGO being sold (50%+) and very little MISB stuff.

 

 

But thats only my thoughts...

I really don't think Hulk was referring to you at all. His comment was directed most at an individual member. You have expressed your opinions respectfully and that is all we can ask from you ;)

[Alcarin]

I really don't think Hulk was referring to you at all. His comment was directed most at an individual member. You have expressed your opinions respectfully and that is all we can ask from you

 

I know it was not expressed to me I replied because i doubt anyone DEMANDED anything I know (or i guess i know) who it was directed towards

[LEGO HULK]

First, noone demanded Ed and Jeff to create this site and offer it for ''free'' (only consuming our time etc)... Noone ever demanded ANYTHING as far as I saw (and i read most of the forums!) 

 

We are all writing our ideas and thoughts out here nothing else....

 

 

 

 

 

As i said the biggest problem with this site selling system (whatever it will be) is the fact it actually educates our buyers and as such contradicts the profit type of selling... (unless  you are one of those lucky 40%+ discount finders)

 

It is against common logic of capitalism (kinda) to educate buyers about price (data comparison) and then trying to ''undercut'' other similar sites (Ebay) with different fee system. 

 

To me that holds little logic.

 

 

So prediction for the opening and a few months down the road is that here we will mostly see collections and old vintage LEGO being sold (50%+) and very little MISB stuff.

 

 

But thats only my thoughts...

 

 

Are you saying that only a microscopic number of people know that Bricklink has a priceguide based on their values.  I am quite sure after all this time that there are quite a number of people that know of the price guide on that site as well as the price guide on this site, but yet people still buy from Bricklink.  Is Bricklink not a Lego site that people know has had a marketplace for all these years.  Is every buyer out there an idiot that does not know how to search for a good deal or what a good price is?  Are there really that many people that are just stupid and go for the highest prices first?  Somehow it's ok that Bricklink can have a catalog, price guide and sell sets after all these years, but its not ok for this site?  Maybe you and I don't read the articles the same way, but this site isn't all just about getting the lowest price. It also talks about sets/themes in general.  Buyers will buy what they want from wherever they can get it at a price that suits their budget.

[Quacs]

I would like to see this take off. What I'm looking for in the next couple years is to list some pirates sets and Harry potter sets for under the brick picker price point, selling to other members here. I want to be able to make a good return and I'm not looking for top market value. In exchange for a lower than eBay price I'm hoping to sell to a fellow collector or investor quickly and hassle free without spending much time trying to use eBay and dealing with idiots scamming. I'm ok with selling a couple queen Ann's revenge for 200 now if I could be pretty much sure it would go smooth

 

This is the other side of the coin that I think has a lot of potential for sellers.  Everyone wants to maximize their returns, but if you can list a set for slightly less than the market value per BP and sell it quickly with no fees, I see that as being a net positive.  Tack on a relatively inexpensive yearly fee, and I really think there's some serious potential for this. 

 

This site's price guide is so much better (and clearer) than any of the major Lego online retail outlets like eBay and Bricklink.  What other site could you include in your listing "below market value" and provide a link to a web page that clearly  shows your listing price to be less than an average market value?  As an example:

 

Sample listing:

"For Sale - 10189 Taj Mahal below retail - $1,500 OBO.  Check current retail pricing here."

 

What buyer looking for a Taj Mahal wouldn't strongly consider your listing rather than waiting for the right listing to come by on eBay?  I think it's important to understand the opportunity the information may provide sellers on this site, and the ways sellers can use it to motivate buyers.  If Brick Classifieds took off, it could easily become the best place for buyers to purchase retired sets confidently as there is no other venue that aggregates sales prices and displays them in clear, effective manner.

 

As an aside, I would definitely list all of my sets on Brick Classifieds, and not just because I'm an unapologetic homer (which I am).  I just think it has a great chance to see reach thousands of motivated Lego buyers ready to buy.  With a little ingenuity, you can easily turn Brickpicker's data into a marketing tool.

[Alcarin]

Are you saying that only a microscopic number of people know that Bricklink has a priceguide based on their values.  I am quite sure after all this time that there are quite a number of people that know of the price guide on that site as well as the price guide on this site, but yet people still buy from Bricklink.  Is Bricklink not a Lego site that people know has had a marketplace for all these years.  Is every buyer out there an idiot that does not know how to search for a good deal or what a good price is?  Are there really that many people that are just stupid and go for the highest prices first?  Somehow it's ok that Bricklink can have a catalog, price guide and sell sets after all these years, but its not ok for this site?  Maybe you and I don't read the articles the same way, but this site isn't all just about getting the lowest price. It also talks about sets/themes in general.  Buyers will buy what they want from wherever they can get it at a price that suits their budget.

 

 

I never said so many are stupid.... but many are.... just check Ebay sold listings and come back.... You'll have a good laugh...

 

Sure some have no other option but still....

 

 

Bricklink sells what Ebay does not... atleast no regular... On Bricklink wanted lists are way easier to make than Ebay... On Bricklink its easier to make great orders of tons of different parts...

 

I rarely sold sets or bought sets on Bricklink.... Bricklink number 1 selling ( i bet) is PARTS and figures) not sets...

 

Its 2 worlds with a small link of Sets and LEGO selling... 

[ExoBro94]

Guys, some if you are spot on and some of you need to see the bigger picture. BC is exactly what it's name suggests, an online classifieds section for LEGO. The fact of the matter is, classifieds are places to find deals, not market prices. Normal newspaper classified ads are generally always bargains. It's like a year-round garage sale. When used correctly, the Brick Classifieds will be a great place for us to sell sets directly to collectors and to each other.

Also, this whole price issue is bullsh*t. Newspaper classifieds are not even free. And if you aren't willing to pay some money to have more exposure and be able to sell more sets to different demographics than that is just dumb. Frankly, I'd be willing to pay $100 a year for a service like this, because I know, in the long run, it will be cheaper and I will be able to make MORE money than by selling on eBay or Amazon. And if you can sell somewhere else, on other "forums", for free, THEN GOOD FOR YOU! You obviously are already doing fine and able to make enough money doing what you are doing. Nobody is making you use the Brick Classifieds, and frankly if anybody is complaining about a fee, they are quite simply bluffing. Greed is obvious.

I'm super excited about this feature!! Like others have said though, I would like to see a very indepth feedback service to go along with it.

[LEGO HULK]

Guys, some if you are spot on and some of you need to see the bigger picture. BC is exactly what it's name suggests, an online classifieds section for LEGO. The fact of the matter is, classifieds are places to find deals, not market prices. Normal newspaper classified ads are generally always bargains. It's like a year-round garage sale. When used correctly, the Brick Classifieds will be a great place for us to sell sets directly to collectors and to each other.

Also, this whole price issue is bullsh*t. Newspaper classifieds are not even free. And if you aren't willing to pay some money to have more exposure and be able to sell more sets to different demographics than that is just dumb. Frankly, I'd be willing to pay $100 a year for a service like this, because I know, in the long run, it will be cheaper and I will be able to make MORE money than by selling on eBay or Amazon. And if you can sell somewhere else, on other "forums", for free, THEN GOOD FOR YOU! You obviously are already doing fine and able to make enough money doing what you are doing. Nobody is making you use the Brick Classifieds, and frankly if anybody is complaining about a fee, they are quite simply bluffing. Greed is obvious.

I'm super excited about this feature!! Like others have said though, I would like to see a very indepth feedback service to go along with it.

 

Exo, I will be the first to admit that I don't get all your posts.  I do think i know where you are coming from on many of them.

 

On this post however, I think you have nailed it.  Seriously, much better than anything that I have tried to say.  Kudos to you for this one for sure!!  I don't care if others flame me, but yes, I think this is what Brick Classifieds is all about.

[Ed Mack]

Guys, some if you are spot on and some of you need to see the bigger picture. BC is exactly what it's name suggests, an online classifieds section for LEGO. The fact of the matter is, classifieds are places to find deals, not market prices. Normal newspaper classified ads are generally always bargains. It's like a year-round garage sale. When used correctly, the Brick Classifieds will be a great place for us to sell sets directly to collectors and to each other.

Also, this whole price issue is bullsh*t. Newspaper classifieds are not even free. And if you aren't willing to pay some money to have more exposure and be able to sell more sets to different demographics than that is just dumb. Frankly, I'd be willing to pay $100 a year for a service like this, because I know, in the long run, it will be cheaper and I will be able to make MORE money than by selling on eBay or Amazon. And if you can sell somewhere else, on other "forums", for free, THEN GOOD FOR YOU! You obviously are already doing fine and able to make enough money doing what you are doing. Nobody is making you use the Brick Classifieds, and frankly if anybody is complaining about a fee, they are quite simply bluffing. Greed is obvious.

I'm super excited about this feature!! Like others have said though, I would like to see a very indepth feedback service to go along with it.

Thank you.  I think people need to realize that this feature is not meant to take out eBay, but to work with it and promote people's items.  The point about charging an upfront fee was that it could help weed out poor sellers or frauds, that is all.  I get a sense that whatever we charge or don't charge, it won't be cheap enough for some members and people will expect eBay service for free.  

[sadowsk1]

It's true, people are cheap.  I am a person and I am also cheap.  I also want to save the most and make the most.  I will do so by whatever website is necessary.  The results will speak for themselves.

[Diabolos80]

I'll just be happy having a place to buy sets from fellow collectors. Ebay is a crapshoot sometimes. I just received a "new" 8097 Slave 1, arrived with a bag open, stickers applied, and missing 19 pieces!!

Hopefully most sellers here can differentiate between new sets and here, have whatever my son shoved in this box.

As for selling, I can't see any harm in having another avenue to expose my listings. I don't think it needs to be anything too fancy. As long as the transactions are done through paypal I'll feel secure.

As for shipping, sellers can figure that out themselves, just like Bricklink. I don't see any need for a shipping calculator, a little buyer-seller communication will be more efficient.

I would vote against yearly or tiered fees. I would prefer a final value fee like ebay, because it allows more flexibility for sellers. Plus, asking for a long term commitment to an unproven market might turn away potential sellers.

I would like to see a DSR feedback system like ebay, but it's not strictly necessary. Every member has a profile page, a new section for feedback comments would be sufficient.

In closing I think simpler is the way to go. Ebay is detailed and intricate and expensive because it's basically internet classifieds for dummies. The specialized nature of this site should foster a population of experienced merchants, negating the need for all of ebay's handholding.

One question: are we thinking different listing styles, e.***. BuyItNows and/or auctions?

[Jeff Mack]

I'll just be happy having a place to buy sets from fellow collectors. Ebay is a crapshoot sometimes. I just received a "new" 8092 Slave 1, arrived with a bag open, stickers applied, and missing 19 pieces!!

Hopefully most sellers here can differentiate between new sets and here, have whatever my son shoved in this box.

As for selling, I can't see any harm in having another avenue to expose my listings. I don't think it needs to be anything too fancy. As long as the transactions are done through paypal I'll feel secure.

As for shipping, sellers can figure that out themselves, just like Bricklink. I don't see any need for a shipping calculator, a little buyer-seller communication will be more efficient.

I would vote against yearly or tiered fees. I would prefer a final value fee like ebay, because it allows more flexibility for sellers. Plus, asking for a long term commitment to an unproven market might turn away potential sellers.

I would like to see a DSR feedback system like ebay, but it's not strictly necessary. Every member has a profile page, a new section for feedback comments would be sufficient.

In closing I think simpler is the way to go. Ebay is detailed and intricate and expensive because it's basically internet classifieds for dummies. The specialized nature of this site should foster a population of experienced merchants, negating the need for all of ebay's handholding.

One question: are we thinking different listing styles, e.g. BuyItNows and/or auctions?

 

One question: are we thinking different listing styles, e.g. BuyItNows and/or auctions?

No, there will be no auctions.  Everything will basically be buy it now, communicate with the seller.  At the moment there will be no Global shipping program.  Everyone here runs their own business, you can use whatever payment program you want, we are not locking anyone into anything.

 

As far as your point of locking people into a long term commitment.  If you post and sell a few sets worth a decent amount of money, you will have paid off the commitment and be done with it.  Our thought process is, if you are not serious enough to pay a small fee, then have zero fees, then just stay with what you are doing and you can still "advertise" your listings from ebay, amazon here for free.  No loss to you, you will just pay your fees through them and mostly likely at the end of the year add up 10x more in fees.  But that may work for you.  

 

Here if people pay a fee, they will use the site, which means more inventory which should bring more people, which will hopefully bring more sales.  You stated simple in your post.  Tracking everyones sales, fees, etc, that is not simple.  Pay once for the year and you are done.  The rest goes into your pocket, no thoughts about fees, just sell, sell sell.

[Darth_Raichu]

I am a bit late to the party, but I have read all 6 pages (well, I skipped the trolling bits ).  While my inventory is much smaller than emazers', I have been selling on eBay far longer than the average forum posters so I have a bit of knowledge on how it works at eBay.

 

Here are a few thoughts that perhaps Ed or Jeff can respond to

 

1. The main concern I and many members have is traffic.  When Ed asked what was the biggest factor in a new online marketplace, the #1 answer was traffic of potential buyers. Any decent sellers know, traffics will be the main concern for any new marketplace, be it online or B&M.  Ed and Jeff had repeatedly said that the traffics on Bricklink price guide dwarfed the forum's traffic.  It would be much easier for some us if Ed and Jeff could show us the evidence of that.  Perhaps a simple bar chart to show how much traffics vs click through the price guide gets from search engine crawlers (Google, Bing, etc) vs non members (guests) vs members with less than 100 forum posts vs members with 100+ forum posts. 

"Seeing is believing" is the idea here. Quite frankly, eBay, Amazon, and Bricklink have years of sales to back them up. Since I am not one of those early adaptors, I can't justify getting into new marketplace (Brickowl, etc) without some kind of idea of the user traffics.

 

2. The price guide data is a bit of deterrent of sales since it is an average over a month and at least one month old.  Lets take a look at 4184 Black Pearl.  Currently, market value (new) is $167.38. If I scroll down a bit, I can see the price is ramping up on the graph and with a few clicks I know I can sell it for way more than $167.38.  However, the average buyers do not know that.  Presumably they would expect prices similar to $167 when the markets on eBay, Amazon, and Bricklink say otherwise.  If I sell for $170, I am leaving a lot of money on the table, but if I set higher prices, I might as well put it on eBay where there is higher exposure (see how everything goes back to traffic ? ). 

I can't offer possible solutions, I just see the potential of one undermining the other.

 

3. What niche does BrickClassified fill ?  To me, part of the reason why Brickpicker grows so quickly is because it offers a unique place where entrepreneurs meet and share ideas on a specific market (LEGO).  Other AfoL sites may offer places to discuss LEGO investments, but as far as I know Brickpicker is the only place where aspects of  investing/reselling are the main focus.

Brickowl, in my estimation, has been growing due to the disgruntled Bricklink users/sellers. Once the new owner of Bricklink grasps what he has in his palms, I would say Brickowl will have a rather tough time in continuing their growth.

It maybe due to my lack of sleep but I could not find any illustrations on how BrickClassified will differentiate itself from the other competitiors.

 

ETA: click through on point #1

[ExoBro94]

Question for you Ed and Jeff:

What steps will you be taking to introduce the classifieds to the outside world once they are complete, up, and running? Will you be relying on word I mouth to get more people to come to the site looking to buy? Will the LEGO news blogs and sites pick up on the introduction of the service? Basically, what will you guys be doing to assure sellers get adequate views, and hopefully, adequate sales?

[Jeff Mack]

I am a bit late to the party, but I have read all 6 pages (well, I skipped the trolling bits ).  While my inventory is much smaller than emazers', I have been selling on eBay far longer than the average forum posters so I have a bit of knowledge on how it works at eBay.

 

Here are a few thoughts that perhaps Ed or Jeff can respond to

 

1. The main concern I and many members have is traffic.  When Ed asked what was the biggest factor in a new online marketplace, the #1 answer was traffic of potential buyers. Any decent sellers know, traffics will be the main concern for any new marketplace, be it online or B&M.  Ed and Jeff had repeatedly said that the traffics on Bricklink price guide dwarfed the forum's traffic.  It would be much easier for some us if Ed and Jeff could show us the evidence of that.  Perhaps a simple bar chart to show how much traffics vs click through the price guide gets from search engine crawlers (Google, Bing, etc) vs non members (guests) vs members with less than 100 forum posts vs members with 100+ forum posts. 

"Seeing is believing" is the idea here. Quite frankly, eBay, Amazon, and Bricklink had years of sales to back them up. Since I am not one of those early adaptors, I can't justify getting into new marketplace (Brickowl, etc) without some kind of idea of the user traffics.

 

2. The price guide data is a bit of deterrent of sales since it is an average over a month and at least one month old.  Lets take a look at 4184 Black Pearl.  Currently, market value (new) is $167.38. If I scroll down a bit, I can see the price is ramping up on the graph and with a few clicks I know I can sell it for way more than $167.38.  However, the average buyers do not know that.  Presumably they would expect prices similar to $167 when the markets on eBay, Amazon, and Bricklink say otherwise.  If I sell for $170, I am leaving a lot of money on the table, but if I set higher prices, I might as well put it on eBay where there is higher exposure (see how everything goes back to traffic ? ). 

I can't offer possible solutions, I just see the potential of one undermining the other.

 

3. What niche does BrickClassified fill ?  To me, part of the reason why Brickpicker grows so quickly is because it offers a unique place where entrepreneurs meet and share ideas on a specific market (LEGO).  Other AfoL sites may offer places to discuss LEGO investments, but as far as I know Brickpicker is the only place where aspects of  investing/reselling are the main focus.

Brickowl, in my estimation, has been growing due to the disgruntled Bricklink users/sellers. Once the new owner of Bricklink grasps what he has in his palms, I would say Brickowl will have a rather tough time in continuing their growth.

It maybe due to my lack of sleep but I could not find any illustrations on how BrickClassified will differentiate itself from the other competitiors.

 

ETA: click through on point #1

 

Well then a good solution for you would probably be to stay at ebay, and then use Brick Classifieds to highlight and advertise your listings here and send people to it.  It is free and only adds exposure for you.