cissi Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Canadian buyer opened a request for full refund when the item is still in custom. I called Canada Post and was confirmed the item is in custom. I called eBay too just for advice how to handle this situation. It was a $25 total sale (shipping included. I offered a $5 partial refund for her inconvenience since the package is clearly on its way though delayed. But I haven't heard from the buyer since. The 'deadline' for working out is tomorrow. I did a lot of search to see how eBay sellers suffered from cases and it seems that eBay decided in buyers' favor with even in worse cases. I know that it seems the easy solution is just to give the item away for free by refunding the buyer but would really appreciate any suggestions/ideas from BPers with similar experience. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo2112 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Yet another reason to never sell overseas or anywhere Customs is involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissi Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Yeah, start feeling the same way... Human nature to think that it was okay when things go well and to get frustrated when things don't. (sigh) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redghostx Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 This sounds like a reason to use the GSP and then it isn't your concern after you ship it to Kentucky (except for SNAD) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDLego324 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I'm not sure "as-is" can work for an online transaction. Because of the lack of detail provided, the buyer should have the opportunity to to inspect the items before agreeing to complete the transaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissi Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Just wondering... So for the 'item not received' case, is now the only time I have to issue full refund? If even after my replies the buyer still escalate the case, does it go to 'open a case' or does it go to eBay directly? If it goes to eBay directly, do I have time to issue full refund or am I considered 'forced to refund' automatically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KShine Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Just wondering... So for the 'item not received' case, is now the only time I have to issue full refund? If even after my replies the buyer still escalate the case, does it go to 'open a case' or does it go to eBay directly? If it goes to eBay directly, do I have time to issue full refund or am I considered 'forced to refund' automatically?What does the tracking state? If it is a buyer who doesn't want to pay the import fees/taxes - you should be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo2112 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure "as-is" can work for an online transaction. Because of the lack of detail provided, the buyer should have the opportunity to to inspect the items before agreeing to complete the transaction.I did offer a full refund to the buyer if he decides to return the purchase. I can't imagine that eBay would say I have to provide a partial refund, that's insane.BTW, I neglected to mention I included 12 detailed pictures of the lot, and all kits were assembled (and shipped assembled). That certainly helps in determining the completeness. Here's the original auction link. Edited April 22, 2015 by diablo2112 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregpj Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Canadian buyer opened a request for full refund when the item is still in custom. I called Canada Post and was confirmed the item is in custom. I called eBay too just for advice how to handle this situation. It was a $25 total sale (shipping included. I offered a $5 partial refund for her inconvenience since the package is clearly on its way though delayed. But I haven't heard from the buyer since. The 'deadline' for working out is tomorrow. I did a lot of search to see how eBay sellers suffered from cases and it seems that eBay decided in buyers' favor with even in worse cases. I know that it seems the easy solution is just to give the item away for free by refunding the buyer but would really appreciate any suggestions/ideas from BPers with similar experience. Thanks!Unfortunately it happens... Years ago I had an order arrive after 4 months. It's not the buyer's responsibility to get the package through customs so as long as they've waited to open the item not received case according to eBay's rules then you're hooped.Having said that... They've gotten a LOT better in the last 5 years and I rarely see stuff delayed more than a day or two, if at all, anymore in either direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissi Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 What does the tracking state? If it is a buyer who doesn't want to pay the import fees/taxes - you should be ok.The tracking shows the item is in custom. No further info is shown. How do I know if the buyer doesn't want to pay tax? Is that something shown on USPS or Canada Post website? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregpj Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 The tracking shows the item is in custom. No further info is shown. How do I know if the buyer doesn't want to pay tax? Is that something shown on USPS or Canada Post website?You don't pay the tax until it arrives at your door.. In which case the tracking would have said "item refused" or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissi Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Thanks, gregpj. So do I have option to refund after the deadline responding to the refund request? The deadline for me is tomorrow and I have sent multiple messages to the buyer, who hasn't replied anything yet. I haven't had a case escalated and it seems eBay has changed some of their resolution center thing so I'm not entirely sure if the refund request is considered a case at the moment. Does it become a case after the buyer escalates the request or is it one now already? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I did offer a full refund to the buyer if he decides to return the purchase. I can't imagine that eBay would say I have to provide a partial refund, that's insane.BTW, I neglected to mention I included 12 detailed pictures of the lot, and all kits were assembled (and shipped assembled). That certainly helps in determining the completeness. Here's the original auction link. I might be wrong, I haven't dealt with ebay in a long time, but I think if you provide the partial refund to happy-up the buyer before it gets escalated to a case then you receive the benefit of not taking a "defect" hit to your account (that can haunt you further down the line). forcing a return is bad news for everyone - there's a high probability the disgruntled buyer is not likely gonna be honest & probably trash the item or steel select parts to recover their own costs, time & hard feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo2112 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) I might be wrong, I haven't dealt with ebay in a long time, but I think if you provide the partial refund to happy-up the buyer before it gets escalated to a case then you receive the benefit of not taking a "defect" hit to your account (that can haunt you further down the line). forcing a return is bad news for everyone - there's a high probability the disgruntled buyer is not likely gonna be honest & probably trash the item or steel select parts to recover their own costs, time & hard feelings.You are 100% right about this, but frankly, we sellers need to start to stand up for fairness. As far as I see it, this is a clear case of extortion. The auction was accurate, with good pics (including pics that showed the dust on the assembled kits, see link), and the buyer knew exactly what he bought in the NR, as-is auction. I will NOT be extorted. My offer of a full refund is more than fair, and honestly, I think I just called his bluff. The buyer sent 3 emails in the course of about an hour 2 days ago, and I haven't heard a thing since my I told him no partial refunds, just send it all back for a full refund. Sure, it might escalate. Sure, I might take a defect. Honestly, those fears prevent many of us from standing up to these scam buyers, and I've had it. So, I might get my first-ever negative feedback. Fine. I'm done pandering to the scammers, as I'm standing up to them as I've seen others here do. My hats off to you, I'm joining your ranks. Edited April 22, 2015 by diablo2112 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissi Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 You are 100% right about this, but frankly, we sellers need to start to stand up for fairness. As far as I see it, this is a clear case of extortion. The auction was accurate, with good pics (including pics that showed the dust on the assembled kits, see link), and the buyer knew exactly what he bought in the NR, as-is auction. I will NOT be extorted. My offer of a full refund is more than fair, and honestly, I think I just called his bluff. The buyer sent 3 emails in the course of about an hour 2 days ago, and I haven't heard a thing since my I told him no partial refunds, just send it all back for a full refund. Sure, it might escalate. Sure, I might take a defect. Honestly, those fears prevent many of us from standing up to these scam buyers, and I've had it. So, I might get my first-ever negative feedback. Fine. I'm done pandering to the scammers, as I'm standing up to them as I've seen others here do. My hats off to you, I'm joining your ranks.I agree with you totally and sympathize with you. Sellers have to unite and have our say with eBay. But from all the examples sellers being extorted out there, it doesn't seem like eBay gives a damn. An example from myself, even a $200 overseas sale, once buyer opens a SNAD case, no matter if it's as described or not, eBay doesn't even read your listing and they will let the buyer keep the item if you don't issue refund. Of course, they want you to pay for the return shipping. If your item is heavy, you are easily looking at $200 shipping cost... so you may as well give the buyer the item for free (even the item is sold through GSP). One example I found is a seller selling a $700 camera through GSP and eBay automatically took money away from the seller. Poor guy, I don't know if his appeal went successfully or not. So having this said, I may remove GSP from all my listings just to avoid all foreign crazy heads. There are enough to deal with domestically. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo2112 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Excellent comments. About 30% of my sales occur through GSP, and I've not had any problems until now. I may also rethink participation in this program; I don't doubt what you say. Getting stuck with return shipping via GSP because of some of these flakey buyers would sour my desire to continue with the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregpj Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Thanks, gregpj. So do I have option to refund after the deadline responding to the refund request? The deadline for me is tomorrow and I have sent multiple messages to the buyer, who hasn't replied anything yet. I haven't had a case escalated and it seems eBay has changed some of their resolution center thing so I'm not entirely sure if the refund request is considered a case at the moment. Does it become a case after the buyer escalates the request or is it one now already? Thanks! I have no idea... calling justafrog if you're out there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissi Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) I have no idea... calling justafrog if you're out there! I don't have her number! I may call eBay again tonight jut to see what's to come after this so-called 'request'... All other item-not-received cases I have had ended well: 1) due to heavy snow in NE US over Jan/Feb, the buyer received the item the day she opened the request 2) the buyer gave me her old address, which eBay decided I got to keep my money. Edited April 22, 2015 by cissi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KShine Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 The tracking shows the item is in custom. No further info is shown. How do I know if the buyer doesn't want to pay tax? Is that something shown on USPS or Canada Post website?While I don't know the details of your transaction, or whether it is related to customs fees or not (also keep in mind that ebay decisions are not always consistent, it usually comes down to the individual reviewing the case) below is an ebay decision for a recent INR claim (decided in my favor).The tracking details shown on USPS is usually a little more detailed than what is shown on ebay.eBay Customer Support has reviewed the case and made a final decision.We decided not to issue the buyer a refund. You don't need to do anything else for this case. Decision: This case has been decided in your favor. Comments: The information in the case indicates that the item is stuck in customs. You don't need to do anything else. Because we decided in your favor, this case, any feedback left, and all detailed seller ratings left, will not affect your seller performance. In addition, any feedback left for this transaction will be removed. Note: It may take up to 24 hours for these updates to reflect in your Seller Dashboard. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissi Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 (edited) While I don't know the details of your transaction, or whether it is related to customs fees or not (also keep in mind that ebay decisions are not always consistent, it usually comes down to the individual reviewing the case) below is an ebay decision for a recent INR claim (decided in my favor).The tracking details shown on USPS is usually a little more detailed than what is shown on ebay.eBay Customer Support has reviewed the case and made a final decision.We decided not to issue the buyer a refund. You don't need to do anything else for this case. Decision: This case has been decided in your favor. Comments: The information in the case indicates that the item is stuck in customs. You don't need to do anything else. Because we decided in your favor, this case, any feedback left, and all detailed seller ratings left, will not affect your seller performance. In addition, any feedback left for this transaction will be removed. Note: It may take up to 24 hours for these updates to reflect in your Seller Dashboard.This is comforting. Thank you so much for your input! USPS shows:DATE & TIMESTATUS OF ITEMLOCATIONApril 13, 2015 , 6:59 pmProcessed Through Sort Facility CANADA Your item was processed through a facility in CANADA on April 13, 2015 at 6:59 pm. The item is currently in transit to the destination.April 13, 2015 , 6:59 pmCustoms ClearanceCANADAThis is what shows in Canada Post web:DateTimeLocationDescriptionRetail LocationSignatory Name2015/04/1318:59RICHMOND, BCItem has arrived in Canada and was sent for further processing. Edited April 22, 2015 by cissi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissi Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Update for my case, the best outcome for both me and the buyer, I guess. YAY~~~I called eBay CS since tomorrow is supposedly the last day for me to respond to the INR request.First, lucky to get to finish the phone call with eBay CS within 8 mins! Probably the shortest wait I have ever had! MIRACLE!She issued full refund to the buyer out of eBay's pocket so the buyer can keep both $ and item. She also told me that it wouldn't create any defects on my seller performance. Phew~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justafrog Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Update for my case, the best outcome for both me and the buyer, I guess. YAY~~~ I called eBay CS since tomorrow is supposedly the last day for me to respond to the INR request. First, lucky to get to finish the phone call with eBay CS within 8 mins! Probably the shortest wait I have ever had! MIRACLE! She issued full refund to the buyer out of eBay's pocket so the buyer can keep both $ and item. She also told me that it wouldn't create any defects on my seller performance. Phew~ That's good news eBay does occasionally do this - and they'll have this buyer on record, so if it turns into their regular song and dance, they'll know and put a stop to it. Buyers do get suspended from eBay, too, just like sellers. I'm afraid I have to hand in my crown as eBay Queen of Knowledge and Awesome - eBay represents a very minor part of our income these days (above turning in our family's empty soda cans at the redemption truck, below everything else...) and I honestly don't spend a lot of time paying attention to all their "put your left foot in, put your left foot out, put your left foot in, and be sure to shake it all about on alternate Tuesdays by 5pm PT if you have a tracking number ending in the word 'illuminati'" rules anymore. Provided they don't actually kick me out (and I can honestly say it wouldn't be so much as a blip on our radar if they did, which is a very relaxing position to be in) we'll always have some sort of presence there, but it's a tiny one and unlikely to grow much in future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KShine Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I'm afraid I have to hand in my crown as eBay Queen of Knowledge and Awesome - eBay represents a very minor part of our income these days (above turning in our family's empty soda cans at the redemption truck, below everything else...) and I honestly don't spend a lot of time paying attention to all their "put your left foot in, put your left foot out, put your left foot in, and be sure to shake it all about on alternate Tuesdays by 5pm PT if you have a tracking number ending in the word 'illuminati'" rules anymore. I Was Addicted To The Hokey Pokey But I Turned Myself Around 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdmpartz Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Thanks, gregpj. So do I have option to refund after the deadline responding to the refund request? The deadline for me is tomorrow and I have sent multiple messages to the buyer, who hasn't replied anything yet. I haven't had a case escalated and it seems eBay has changed some of their resolution center thing so I'm not entirely sure if the refund request is considered a case at the moment. Does it become a case after the buyer escalates the request or is it one now already? Thanks!Simply call ebay, and explain the situation. They do help sellers all the time.If the item is still in customs, they will extend the "case" date until it is moved. Ebay is actually pretty fair in this instance, as I have dealt with it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarleyMoose Posted April 28, 2015 Share Posted April 28, 2015 Just sold a lot of 45 used baseplates on Ebay. I have a 3 day handling period. I usually ship the next day anyway. Instead of messaging me first the guy buys it and then tells me he needs it by Thursday. He paid for the economy shipping. I predict a future issue coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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