daurgo2001 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Darth_Raichu said: Fact of the matter is seller can put whatever price they want on their wares, that is economy 101. You are absolutely correct. The *only* thing I was trying to tell him was that the estimated value he had placed on the wares was wrong based off of the freely available information on this here site. I just wanted to disarm his expectation of value, and work from there. He refused to accept that he was off (From his original $4,300 estimate). 1 hour ago, Darth_Raichu said: Also, I do not know how many sales you have made so far, but if someone comes to me asking to buy my $400 item for $200 by insisting over and over on how wrong my price is, there is a great chance I would put the annoying guy in my forever ban list. I'm a small-business owner focused on sales, and have been my entire adult life. He's got less than 100 ratings, and a 0% over the last year. I have over 400 at 100% in the last year. I wasn't *trying* to be annoying.. I simply wanted to bring him down to reality so that I could actually work on a deal. We got nowhere near that. 1 hour ago, Darth_Raichu said: He can be correct or he can get the item for cheaper than the asking price. It is a matter of perspective. Yea, I could have stopped attempting to negotiate and accepted his counter-offer for a loss... but who wants to do that? I've been an eBayer since I was a young teenager in the early 2000's, and I've never encountered this kind of behavior. If he was truly offended, I'm as shocked as he was offended. Edited March 18, 2016 by daurgo2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen_rockefeller Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 You were provoking him and then you wanna come here and complain? That is what I find ridiculous and to be quite honest pretty childish. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daurgo2001 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 8 minutes ago, stephen_rockefeller said: You were provoking him and then you wanna come here and complain? That is what I find ridiculous and to be quite honest pretty childish. I was attempting to hold a negotiation. It was not my intention to provoke him, and as I mentioned in my last post, his reply was absolutely shocking to me, as in, from left field. Unexpected... If by 'complain', you mean to 'disagree with' his listing, and his reaction, then yes. I believe his listing was annoyingly misleading, and I believe his reaction was absolutely blown out of proportion and uncalled for. On that note, I can't believe how much flak I'm getting for this. Jebus. I didn't want to pick a fight with him, and I don't want to pick a fight on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprocket77 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 3 minutes ago, daurgo2001 said: I was attempting to hold a negotiation. It was not my intention to provoke him, and as I mentioned in my last post, his reply was absolutely shocking to me, as in, from left field. Unexpected... If by 'complain', you mean to 'disagree with' his listing, and his reaction, then yes. I believe his listing was annoyingly misleading, and I believe his reaction was absolutely blown out of proportion and uncalled for. On that note, I can't believe how much flak I'm getting for this. Jebus. I didn't want to pick a fight with him, and I don't want to pick a fight on here. Just curious, what kind of reaction did you expect when you accused him of shady practices? That was never going to end well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daurgo2001 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Sprocket77 said: Just curious, what kind of reaction did you expect when you accused him of shady practices? That was never going to end well. ...in my world of negotiation, a small left-jab like the one I pulled during negotiation isn't offensive, and definitely not something that would make someone flip a negotiating table over like he did... If it's not clear yet: I realize that I definitely underestimated the impact that 'speaking my mind' would have (or whatever you want to call it). Edited March 18, 2016 by daurgo2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregpj Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 39 minutes ago, daurgo2001 said: ...in my world of negotiation, a small left-jab like the one I pulled during negotiation isn't offensive, and definitely not something that would make someone flip a negotiating table over like he did... If it's not clear yet: I realize that I definitely underestimated the impact that 'speaking my mind' would have (or whatever you want to call it). People who put crap listings on eBay with the intent of misleading somebody don't want to negotiate in good faith, they want to rip somebody off. The moron who posted a misleading first picture to draw people into his listing doesn't give two craps what you or I think of his listing. A small left-jab is just going to annoy them and either A) send them off the deep because they're too stupid to realize what they're doing or B ) get a reaction like you did because they know exactly what they're doing but don't like to be called out. It's called being ignorant and the world is full of ignorant people... Maybe it could have been said nicer, but folks here are just trying to say "move on and forget about it." 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen_rockefeller Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 @daurgo2001 Greg is absolutely right I apologize for my tone but I'm sure you see where I am coming from. I mean did you really want to deal with that guy? Who would want to? The listing was crap to begin with so why even mess with people like that? It just doesn't make sense. It was probably a blessing in disguise that he wouldn't negotiate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaisonline Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 1 hour ago, daurgo2001 said: ...in my world of negotiation, a small left-jab like the one I pulled during negotiation isn't offensive, and definitely not something that would make someone flip a negotiating table over like he did... If it's not clear yet: I realize that I definitely underestimated the impact that 'speaking my mind' would have (or whatever you want to call it). Small jabs during Lego negotiations? I walk away before jabs are needed. Not worth the aftermath. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daurgo2001 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 14 minutes ago, stephen_rockefeller said: @daurgo2001 Greg is absolutely right I apologize for my tone but I'm sure you see where I am coming from. I mean did you really want to deal with that guy? Who would want to? The listing was crap to begin with so why even mess with people like that? It just doesn't make sense. It was probably a blessing in disguise that he wouldn't negotiate. You're probably absolutely correct. Cheers to that 8 minutes ago, jaisonline said: Small jabs during Lego negotiations? I walk away before jabs are needed. Not worth the aftermath. ...live and learn... Thanks for the perspective @gregpj 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grynn Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Just a bit of friendly advice for anyone open to it: 1. Learn to take no for an answer. This attempt to get a deal started out well (aside from the pic) on both sides but refusal to budge on either side despite intelligent communication led to tactics involving criticism... That is virtually always counterproductive, regardless of accuracy. Once I learned to walk away at the first sign of a fruitcake, most of my frustration in this business has evaporated. Also, the deals I do manage to successfully negotiate are that much sweeter. 2. Negotiation and justification may overlap a bit, but be careful not to confuse the two. While an original offer may be very fair or borderline lowballing depending on your perspective, refusing to up the offer at all while instead pointing out the seller's flawed logic simply paints you as an opportunist, clearly recognized quite respectfully right away by the seller. Laying out your reasoning so clearly only confirms you are not the buyer he wants, opening the door for hostility rather than progress. And a "left jab" steps right through the threshold. Game over. Negotiation has multiple definitions but using the one involving agreement and compromise rather than getting past / through / around an obstacle leads to far more successful outcomes. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sfcommando14 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 The only listing feedback I ever give is when I find incorrect information. He was clearly and overtly using a misleading picture. Just ignore/move on after negotiations. And you can tell him his price is wrong, but there are people who are hoping for an uninformed buyer and charge more for a lot than if purchased individually. Call it a convenience fee. Call it overwhelming someone so they don't want to do their homework. Whatever. I agree that things were taken too far and there were about 5.5 more interactions than necessary. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcarin Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 All I see on that example is trying to fraud the buyer into thinking everything on photo is up for sale included in that price. Should be bannable on Ebay imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Raichu Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 On Friday, March 18, 2016 at 4:34 AM, daurgo2001 said: You are absolutely correct. The *only* thing I was trying to tell him was that the estimated value he had placed on the wares was wrong based off of the freely available information on this here site. I just wanted to disarm his expectation of value, and work from there. He refused to accept that he was off (From his original $4,300 estimate). I'm a small-business owner focused on sales, and have been my entire adult life. He's got less than 100 ratings, and a 0% over the last year. I have over 400 at 100% in the last year. I wasn't *trying* to be annoying.. I simply wanted to bring him down to reality so that I could actually work on a deal. We got nowhere near that. Yea, I could have stopped attempting to negotiate and accepted his counter-offer for a loss... but who wants to do that? I've been an eBayer since I was a young teenager in the early 2000's, and I've never encountered this kind of behavior. If he was truly offended, I'm as shocked as he was offended. He was willing to go down to 3000 from 4200.You continued by saying he was wrong. I was shocked to hear this was the first time this style of negotiation blew up like this. Especially when done on clearly a lazy if not downright manipulative seller . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daurgo2001 Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 16 hours ago, Darth_Raichu said: He was willing to go down to 3000 from 4200.You continued by saying he was wrong. I was shocked to hear this was the first time this style of negotiation blew up like this. Especially when done on clearly a lazy if not downright manipulative seller . He was willing to go down to 3k from 3,500. $4,200 is what he said he believed the lot was worth to begin with, but the lot is listed for 3.5k. I tried to explain that his original value was wrong (4.2k), and with each successive attempt, I tried to show him the reasoning behind my numbers. Generally, when I do that, I expect them to back up their reasoning with solid numbers/info. He didn't... likely more proof of his laziness. Luckily, I guess there aren't too many sellers like these on eBay... or I just haven't crossed paths with any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grynn Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Not eBay but did any of you happen to nab that $300 Walmart gift card from Raise for $2.91? Maths are fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grynn Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 ... and here's a good reason not to leave feedback for your buyer immediately upon payment: http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=steomclau-0&ftab=AllFeedback&urlstack=5508|Period_Last122Days|currentpage_SCSold|&transactionid=1789511113016&itemid=262306640777 This clown signed up yesterday and bought who knows how many overpriced Lego sets (including one from me) on what I am guessing is a stolen credit card, through Paypal. My sale was basically a placeholder listing, so when I saw the sale I looked at his feedback and saw +15 as a buyer in the past month only (I thought I saw he registered in January but now it seems not). Since I promise 1-day shipping I went ahead and got the set ready to ship despite my doubts... but for whatever reason (between mystic portents and laziness) didn't send it out when I took my kid to school nor when I picked him up today. I was planning on finally dropping it at 5:30pm, but just in time, I get a "suspicious buyer" email from eBay. Yeah, no kidding... Thankfully I just have to request a shipping label refund and not halt the package. Take the feedback system seriously, folks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migration Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 PC by chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 So I purchased a MISB sandcrawler 75059 at the beginning of the month - BIN for 249.99 + 15 ship for $265. Thought it was a great deal. Pay immediately - seller emails me that he wont be able to ship until the following monday (was a weds) no big deal I'm not in a rush. Finally get a shipment notification a week later (next weds) - He lives in the same state as me (200 miles away). Item doesnt show up, so after a week I reach out to him. He responds that he just got an email that he shipped the item to the wrong address but he should be receiving it back today, once he does he will ship to me. I'm thinking ok...seems off but whatever. Wait another week and email him again. Says he still hasnt received the item back and he's gonna call the post office and find out what the deal is. Few more days go back, I email him again (says he never got it back said he was waiting to see what happened) He agrees to refund my money and states if I eventually receive the item to let him know. I'm thinking he either realized he sold it too low and didnt want to get negged or he's pulling the 30 day loan scam. Not sure what to think. Has 800+ feedback all positive and quite a few in the last month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bold-Arrow Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 It is sometimes good to give the seller the benefit of the doubt but IMHO after the first email the writing was on the wall . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Raichu Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 19 minutes ago, Quagmire said: So I purchased a MISB sandcrawler 75059 at the beginning of the month - BIN for 249.99 + 15 ship for $265. Thought it was a great deal. Pay immediately - seller emails me that he wont be able to ship until the following monday (was a weds) no big deal I'm not in a rush. Finally get a shipment notification a week later (next weds) - He lives in the same state as me (200 miles away). Item doesnt show up, so after a week I reach out to him. He responds that he just got an email that he shipped the item to the wrong address but he should be receiving it back today, once he does he will ship to me. I'm thinking ok...seems off but whatever. Wait another week and email him again. Says he still hasnt received the item back and he's gonna call the post office and find out what the deal is. Few more days go back, I email him again (says he never got it back said he was waiting to see what happened) He agrees to refund my money and states if I eventually receive the item to let him know. I'm thinking he either realized he sold it too low and didnt want to get negged or he's pulling the 30 day loan scam. Not sure what to think. Has 800+ feedback all positive and quite a few in the last month. Shouldn't you be able to check his shipping story with the tracking info from seller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunkenbrick Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Quagmire said: He responds that he just got an email that he shipped the item to the wrong address but he should be receiving it back today, once he does he will ship to me. Really? that's a first. If I send something to the wrong address and I don't catch it on time they will drop the box and leave it there (my mistake not theirs).. To ship a sandcrawler you need a mammoth box. I would make damn sure to send it to the right address. fishy stuff. Edited March 22, 2016 by sunkenbrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said: Shouldn't you be able to check his shipping story with the tracking info from seller? Normally yes, but he never put the tracking info up on ebay, just marked as shipped. I def leaning that he realized he didnt want to sell it at that price and made up the story. Sucks because i've been skimming email for months looking for good deals on the sandcrawler. Edited March 22, 2016 by Quagmire 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Raichu Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 34 minutes ago, Quagmire said: Normally yes, but he never put the tracking info up on ebay, just marked as shipped. I def leaning that he realized he didnt want to sell it at that price and made up the story. Sucks because i've been skimming email for months looking for good deals on the sandcrawler. I would still ask for the tracking number so both of you can track the whereabout of the package. Open a INR case if you have to. I would not let him get away with this type of BS unscratched. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Darth_Raichu said: I would still ask for the tracking number so both of you can track the whereabout of the package. Open a INR case if you have to. I would not let him get away with this type of BS unscratched. I agree, its BS but he already refunded my money. Not sure i can do anything at this point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Raichu Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 3 hours ago, Quagmire said: I agree, its BS but he already refunded my money. Not sure i can do anything at this point? At this point, your option is limited to leaving feedback 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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