LEGO S@H "Black Listing": Did you ever receive this re-sale warning from Shop at Home?

[emes]

98% of this forum is opinion.......besides who would be the one to differentiate between fact and opinion????

 

It's my opinion that 101% of this forum is opinion.

[cohens714]

Guys you are seriously missing the point on this. Lego doesn't care at all about the money. You all need to realize that if every one of us sold every lego set we own right now it wouldn't even equal a fraction of what Lego sets Target sells in one day. What Lego cares about is control of their brand. When a ton of random people sell their product they don't have control of the marketing, pricing or quality control. This is the main reason they try to limit this reseller scenario as much as possible.

[stephen_rockefeller]

They can and most certainly do. LEGO would much rather have two people buy a set from them when a set is in production than one person buying a set and selling it to another after it is retired.

like i said, you are assuming that a persons only choice on what to spend their money on is a retired set from me or a new set from LEGO.

[stephen_rockefeller]

Guys you are seriously missing the point on this. Lego doesn't care at all about the money. You all need to realize that if every one of us sold every lego set we own right now it wouldn't even equal a fraction of what Lego sets Target sells in one day. What Lego cares about is control of their brand. When a ton of random people sell their product they don't have control of the marketing, pricing or quality control. This is the main reason they try to limit this reseller scenario as much as possible.

they dont care about money??? That is hilarious!!!!! Besides control=money!

[sadowsk1]

I think TRU is the biggest reseller around and Lego seems to be fine about it.  They are the last large scale commercial retailer that retains and sells sets online and almost always at a mark up these days, it's a fine line.  Just a thought.

[emes]

To veer slightly (but still on topic), what about PAB?

 

Are those of us buying PAB for resale in danger when we hit a certain purchase amount? And what's an educated guess as to what that purchase amount might be? My intent was to buy 6 large cups at a time (or about 30 to 50 cups per month at four different Lego stores but on the same VIP account - the six at a time just because that gets me over $75 for the freebie).

 

Do I risk a ban and keep on trucking until they do, or try to fly a little more under the radar (although the employees will no doubt start to recognize me, I'm not an easily forgettable frog, sadly...) and not use VIP at all and just pay cash?

 

I would assume that anything that appears to be a series of irregular transactions puts you at risk.

[ExoBro94]

like i said, you are assuming that a persons only choice on what to spend their money on is a retired set from me or a new set from LEGO.

 

No, I'm just saying that LEGO would in fact rather sell two sets than sell one and have you sell one. In fact, I'm saying the exact same thing you said. 

 

YEP! The only way they will stop reselling completely is to go out of business. They are just being greedy I think. So let's say I buy a set from Lego. At that time they got their money. If I choose to sell it that is one less set they sold because that person bought it from me and not them. But they got their money originally so what is that besides just plain ol greed?? They are mad because they only got money for one set and not two. That's how I see it anyway.....is this wrong?

 

[stephen_rockefeller]

I am bowing out of this conversation..........everyone thinks they know why this is happening and its just going in circles. Im over this topic already.

[emes]

I am bowing out of this conversation..........everyone thinks they know why this is happening and its just going in circles. Im over this topic already.

 

That's the thing though, I don't think anyone really needs to know why it's happening..we just need to accept that it is and figure out the best ways to mitigate it.

 

I, like many others, don't really buy that much from LEGO Shop at Home or the stores, so at the moment I see this having little to no impact. 

[justafrog]

I would assume that anything that appears to be a series of irregular transactions puts you at risk.

 

I would love to know the algorithm for "regular transactions" on PAB. I am probably not alone in that. 

 

It's not much of a bump in the business plan if my face ends up on the Most Wanted wall at all the local Lego stores, with a mandate to the employees to shoot me with tiny plastic laser guns on sight, since the majority of our bricks-for-sale will be parted out kits anyway.

 

But I confess I'd really like to know the magic number so I can avoid it.

[dimsumonly]

If Lego actually get a hold of this conversation, all the resellers/investors would be the object attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis. lol. I'm sure someone would get this if they Google it. 

[ExoBro94]

If Lego actually get a hold of this conversation, all the resellers/investors would be the object attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis. lol. I'm sure someone would get this if they Google it. 

 

Screwed.

 

 

[emes]

I would love to know the algorithm for "regular transactions" on PAB. I am probably not alone in that. 

 

It's not much of a bump in the business plan if my face ends up on the Most Wanted wall at all the local Lego stores, with a mandate to the employees to shoot me with tiny plastic laser guns on sight, since the majority of our bricks-for-sale will be parted out kits anyway.

 

But I confess I'd really like to know the magic number so I can avoid it.

 

I'm guessing it's not specific to PAB, or any specific product. I know how some other retailers do this, even a little about of the systems that they use, and generally they look to implement systems that are flexible and not necessarily tied to a specific product-line. With big retailers that sells lots of products it's often difficult for them to know whether or not a certain product line will be hotter than others, and so the solution is to not control it from that perspective. Think of it as more person-oriented or behavior-oriented than it is product-line oriented.

 

At its heart is a basic comparison of actual vs. predicted behavior using a set of expected norms.

 

This is purely informed speculation, because if you were a retailer you could set something like this up just about however you want to.

[redcell]

All of this is just speculation and opinion so I'm not sure how you "know" what TLG motive is.

 

I never said that I know what TLG's motive is.  In fact, I've said before that, unless someone works at TLG and is privy to its decision-making, there is no way to know why they made this move.  However, I can tell you with some certainty that something is not motivating this decision when it conflicts with basic economic principles.

[choppers605]

[redcell]

I would

 

I would agree with you BUT, you can in fact buy a set and compete tomorrow and here's how and why they care. Say I go buy a Wolverine Chopper set for $20 from LEGO Shop at Home or the Lego store. Then I go home and crack it open, build the figs, build the helicopter and then list each individual minifig on Ebay as well as the copter. Now there's going to be some kid or adult out there who ONLY cares about the Deadpool and doesn't want to buy the set just to get it so they'll pay me $10 for it, and so on with the other parts of the set until I've made $35 on it AND I've kept Lego from selling 5 of those sets because someone got each piece they wanted without having to buy the whole set. Make sense???

 

I suppose that makes sense in theory, but, in reality, I find it extremely hard to believe that that type of strategy has become so prevalent or widespread that it would drive TLG to implement a policy like this.

[cohens714]

[StarCityBrickCompany]

I think this whole no resellers allowed concern is a bit overblown. I don't know why Lego is doing it, but I don't think it's because they don't want to sell their sets. Maybe it has to do with controlling distribution - who knows. And if Lego didn't want to have people buying old EOL sets, how can you explain them putting out books promoting the history of old sets (Potter, SW, Batman, etc) - that only make collectors want those sets (and Lego knows that they won't be buying them from Lego).

[ExoBro94]

I think this whole no resellers allowed concern is a bit overblown. I don't know why Lego is doing it, but I don't think it's because they don't want to sell their sets. Maybe it has to do with controlling distribution - who knows. And if Lego didn't want to have people buying old EOL sets, how can you explain them putting out books promoting the history of old sets (Potter, SW, Batman, etc) - that only make collectors want those sets (and Lego knows that they won't be buying them from them).

 

Beacuse that is how they can make money off of EOL'd sets. They sell books about them... lol.

[comicblast]

Guys you are seriously missing the point on this. Lego doesn't care at all about the money. You all need to realize that if every one of us sold every lego set we own right now it wouldn't even equal a fraction of what Lego sets Target sells in one day. What Lego cares about is control of their brand. When a ton of random people sell their product they don't have control of the marketing, pricing or quality control. This is the main reason they try to limit this reseller scenario as much as possible.

First, I think you are wrong on that first point. Big companies don't get to be big and successful because they give away money to charities. They get money by keeping it for themselves, so of course they do! Sure, they want to know who they sell their products to, but does that really matter to them? I believe the answer that you said about TLG trying "to limit this reseller scenario as much as possible" is what they say, but not necessarily what is truth. My guess is that they just want the money. ALL of it.

[Ed Mack]

That's the thing though, I don't think anyone really needs to know why it's happening..we just need to accept that it is and figure out the best ways to mitigate it.

 

I, like many others, don't really buy that much from S@H or the stores, so at the moment I see this having little to no impact. 

This is my feeling as well.  I use LEGO S@H on occasion for exclusive sets or deals, but 90% of my buying goes through Amazon, Target, eBay or new sites like YoYo.com.  Buy in moderation and mix it up and I think you stand a fair chance of avoiding the ban.

[willy431]

Resellers give people an option. Without resellers, there is only one option...LEGO and the other large retailers who sell product for LEGO. I'm just trying to make sense of this and this is where my logic is taking me...

Here is real example I want Harry potter. all of them. Well...my son does. If I can't get them from resellers...I am not going to the lego store to get him lone ranger. Just because I want eol hp sets doesn't mean mean I will settle for a chima. In this case why would lego care if I pay 200 for a castle set on eBay. My son will get it..everyone Will be happy...son will get hooked on lego..and ask for NEW lego sets....then I will buy retail sets.

What I really don't understand is take the funhouse. They are cranking them out for 40 bucks a unit..costs them 15 @ the most. Lots of time no stock at lego stores I go to. Why in the heck don't they just flood the market with them? These are diamonds, oil or currency where you don't want to flood the market..in fears of lowering future sales prices. Why would they care? If the market want millions of these things...and you are doubling your money each time you sell one...then why stop? To protect the resale market from crashing? Interesting discussion. Lego marketing is reason this thread..perhaps on of them will go rogue and chime in?

[willy431]

I think this whole no resellers allowed concern is a bit overblown. I don't know why Lego is doing it, but I don't think it's because they don't want to sell their sets. Maybe it has to do with controlling distribution - who knows. And if Lego didn't want to have people buying old EOL sets, how can you explain them putting out books promoting the history of old sets (Potter, SW, Batman, etc) - that only make collectors want those sets (and Lego knows that they won't be buying them from Lego).

YES! You got it! That is how my son found out about all the old sets he can't get any more at stores! That damn $10 HP book is goin to end up costing me $500!

If the hate resellers so much and care about the kids....then 're release the potter sets an the original MF everyone dreams about. Start selling the falcons again for 350, and potter castles for $100 That will scare off 75% of the evil resellers. Myself included. My biggest fear is they check ebay...see the most popular sets being resold....and start the presses back up for a new run. It would be super easy. And super profitable.

[Ed Mack]

Here is real example I want Harry potter. all of them. Well...my son does. If I can't get them from resellers...I am not going to the lego store to get him lone ranger. Just because I want eol hp sets doesn't mean mean I will settle for a chima. In this case why would lego care if I pay 200 for a castle set on eBay. My son will get it..everyone Will be happy...son will get hooked on lego..and ask for NEW lego sets....then I will buy retail sets.

What I really don't understand is take the funhouse. They are cranking them out for 40 bucks a unit..costs them 15 @ the most. Lots of time no stock at lego stores I go to. Why in the heck don't they just flood the market with them? These are diamonds, oil or currency where you don't want to flood the market..in fears of lowering future sales prices. Why would they care? If the market want millions of these things...and you are doubling your money each time you sell one...then why stop? To protect the resale market from crashing? Interesting discussion. Lego marketing is reason this thread..perhaps on of them will go rogue and chime in?

I have confidence in LEGO that they will not flood the market.  They like inflated prices for their products.  Reminds me of Harley Davidson Motorcycles several years back.  Harley Davidson is very protective of its brand as well and made it difficult to buy a new bike a few years ago. The values of the bikes remained high as did their appeal.  Then HD decided to produce more bikes and the company profits suffered, as did their reputation.  

[Diabolos80]

Simply put, any LEGO set sold on the secondary market, at any time, can take business away from LEGO and the other retailers selling current sets. Most people have limited funds to spend on LEGO sets and must choose between old sets on eBay or new sets on LEGO LEGO Shop at Home, Target or Amazon. Money spent on the older set is money taken away from the new LEGO set money pool. Of course resellers do buy a ton of sets, so it might balance out, but LEGO might view any reseller as a threat.

The reseller does have a very important ally in all of this...eBay. eBay makes a ton of money from reselling LEGO sets. Just a thought...

That's a terrifying thought... If Lego decided to change the nature of that relationship, how far would it go? Best case secenario is more fees. Worst case scenario is, I can't move squat on Craigslist (too uneducated) or Bricklink (too educated) for the profits I want, and I'm looking for something else to sell on ebay. Bummer.

I think I'd miss having a nice place to buy retired sets, more than I would miss selling them, but that's probably just me.