LEGO S@H "Black Listing": Did you ever receive this re-sale warning from Shop at Home?

[agp548]

Lego and the NSA keeping tabs on everything we do. Watch out people.

[Ed Mack]

I hope the "paid site / free site" topic doesn't hijack what is a very critical topic. That being said, I hate the idea. If we only look to those at or above our level how will we ever learn from those with fresh ideas who are new to the game? If someone want to have their own reindeer games go start your own site and I'm sure you'll attract those who share your sentiment. Ed and Jeff clearly don't feel that's how they want this site to work so we just have to accept there will be plenty of noobs to match with the pros. This is a community that has fought itself for too long and it's because of that behavior that we don't have a voice. Ed and Jeff give us that voice more than any other site. Sure I subscribe to FTBT, ToysNBricks, HothBricks, etc but those are far more on the fan side of the spectrum. I was on board with Jeff and Ed from day one because they get "us". They understand business and the business of Lego reselling. Now any of you that honestly think you're not one of the hated resellers because you call yourself an investor is dillusional. We're not welcome either way. It's all business one way or another and whether there's people like me who pay taxes on it and have a corporation to do it through or some stay at home dad who's staying just under the IRS limit for reportable income it doesn't matter. We all do the same thing; we look for deals, we buy them up, and we wait until they appreciate before selling. So if one group here thinks they're better than the other please take a step back and look at what we need to do as a collective group to make things better for everyone. Pointing fingers doesn't help. I can take responsiblity for the holes I put in a stores shelf, can you?

From the day we launched this site, there was always a faction of LEGO fans that despise the LEGO reseller and investor.  They find it tacky and beneath them.  God forbid if someone would desecrate the sacred LEGO brick and consider it a commodity instead of a toy.  I am here to tell you a balance can be maintained between the hobby of LEGO collecting and the business of LEGO investing.  There is no bigger fan of the LEGO brick than myself and I would never want to harm the reputation or the business of LEGO, because in turn, it would devalue the tens of thousands of dollars of LEGO sets I have stored away.  

 

People come to this site to see how much their collection is worth, to find tips on investing or deals on sets among many other things.  But the bottom line it is about money.  Value of sets, saving money when buying sets, wasting money on bad sets, sets to invest money into are just some of the things that are discussed here.  To ignore the money factor in this discussion and to look down upon a reseller is shortsighted because it's always about money.

 

I love LEGO bricks and think they are wonderful toys and investments.  The quality is second to none, as is the creativity, packaging and marketing of the product.  Obviously the LEGO company thinks resellers are hurting them in some way or they wouldn't turn away some of their best customers.  I would love to hear from the company as to their issues with resellers and to clarify their stance on multiple set purchases.  If the rules are made clear, then people can adapt and abide by them.

[Anakinisvader]

Hummm, maybe its time to Black List LEGO stores and LEGO Shop at Home.  I bet the crunch of the so called "THOSE PEOPLE" will put a pretty good dent in their bottom line and they will be begging for sales in a few short months.

[agp548]

Oh and it would not surprise me if there are TLG people infiltrating this site and posing as members finding out all they can about investors/resellers.

[emes]

BOOOOO!  I like reading your stuff.  Certainly our loss...

 

And I appreciate quite a bit, from quite a few people here as well, including you. I just feel like there's an element here that's very disrespectful at times, and the net result for me has often been a form of self-induced frustration, rather than a feeling that I'm actually helping anyone.

 

I think as a community BP will have to make some decisions. Two that come to mind are 1) Do we want to be 911 for everyone who doesn't understand eBay jumps in (vs. being willingto be helpful before people get involved, which I think is the right place to be), and 2) Should all the random whining that adds no value be allowed to continue?...I'm referring specifically to the threads we see complaining about TRU, eBay, PayPal, etc...

[Diabolos80]

Just to be clear, I don't despise anyone who wants to make profits on Lego. I do it, too. And if some people only see it as a a commodity, that's cool, too. But I don't like it when those people assume that they're the only ones with the right or knowledge to contribute. As you said, Ed, a balance of play and business is what this site is all about.

[Diabolos80]

And I appreciate quite a bit, from quite a few people here as well, including you. I just feel like there's an element here that's very disrespectful at times, and the net result for me has often been a form of self-induced frustration, rather than a feeling that I'm actually helping anyone.

 

I think as a community BP will have to make some decisions. Two that come to mind are 1) Do we want to be 911 for everyone who doesn't understand eBay jumps in (vs. being willingto be helpful before people get involved, which I think is the right place to be), and 2) Should all the random whining that adds no value be allowed to continue?...I'm referring specifically to the threads we see complaining about TRU, eBay, PayPal, etc...

Emes, don't let the whiners get ya down, man. Look at it this way: every time someone whines, argues, or disagrees, it's a chance to better inform the rest of the members with a closer approximation of the truth. Without a wrong observation in need of correction, the right one might never be spoken.

[Alcarin]

It was explained to me that their computer system had now been updated to flag (in addition to having a clipboard with local names on it) what they called

[Pirate]

 

I can

[StarCityBrickCompany]

I'm mostly not interested in participating in the forum discussions any longer, hence my recent absence. I feel like there are too many people here looking for knowledge that aren't necessarily willing to share the same in return, or don't have it to share in return. I might change my mind in the future, most likely when some of the "oh-cool-I-can-make-money-with-LEGO people" are shook out of the market through incompetence. I'm certain that sounds arrogant, but it reflects exactly how I feel. For the time being I'm going to lurk.

 

That aside, this is a good discussion, and I've enjoyed following it, and I want to add two things to this discussion.

 

First, I think a paid aspect to this site is a really bad idea. If ability to pay for the membership is the criteria, that in no way ensures that the people paying will have a mature discussion, or will have knowledge that is worth paying for.

 

I can certainly understand that feeling - I have been there and have taken breaks as well. Regarding the private forum - your decision to not participate in forums any longer is a good example of why it would be helpful. Sometimes there is too much junk being tossed around that it feels like a HS locker room. I don't have any problems with new people looking to learn, but there are some here who don't really want to learn anything - they just want to stir up trouble.

 

What I was looking to get was a filter that would allow only specific users posts to be visible (not a paid premium forum). Having this option could keep people from getting frustrated and feeling that they just need to quit the forums.

[LEGO HULK]

I'm mostly not interested in participating in the forum discussions any longer, hence my recent absence. I feel like there are too many people here looking for knowledge that aren't necessarily willing to share the same in return, or don't have it to share in return. I might change my mind in the future, most likely when some of the "oh-cool-I-can-make-money-with-LEGO people" are shook out of the market through incompetence. I'm certain that sounds arrogant, but it reflects exactly how I feel. For the time being I'm going to lurk.

 

 

This has been a great thread.  Really great reading until I got to this post.  I think you are a very good poster on this site, but in my opinion you come off quite bad here.  Basically you are saying that your words are better than everyone else's so now we all need to suffer because you are not going to share you great wisdom.  I think that sets a horrible example and probably quite the opposite of what the owners of the site want here.  So you are saying that there should be a "special" forum for people like you and that you guys will pay for this.  How many will be in there, maybe 5.  That's a real great idea (rolling eyes)... 

[Anakinisvader]

I can certainly understand that feeling - I have been there and have taken breaks as well. Regarding the private forum - your decision to not participate in forums any longer is a good example of why it would be helpful. Sometimes there is too much junk being tossed around that it feels like a HS locker room. I don't have any problems with new people looking to learn, but there are some here who don't really want to learn anything - they just want to stir up trouble.

 

What I was looking to get was a filter that would allow only specific users posts to be visible. Having this option could keep people from getting frustrated and feeling that they just need to quit the forums.

  You can actually "block" specific people in your user settings.  If you have already blocked me you wont be reading this. 

[Jeff Mack]

What I was looking to get was a filter that would allow only specific users posts to be visible. Having this option could keep people from getting frustrated and feeling that they just need to quit the forums.

 

This forum does have a filtering system. You can filter out all the people you don't want, so I guess you can try to ban everyone other than they people you do want to read.  I think its called Ignore users.

[Ed Mack]

I'm mostly not interested in participating in the forum discussions any longer, hence my recent absence. I feel like there are too many people here looking for knowledge that aren't necessarily willing to share the same in return, or don't have it to share in return. I might change my mind in the future, most likely when some of the "oh-cool-I-can-make-money-with-LEGO people" are shook out of the market through incompetence. I'm certain that sounds arrogant, but it reflects exactly how I feel. For the time being I'm going to lurk.

 

That aside, this is a good discussion, and I've enjoyed following it, and I want to add two things to this discussion.

 

First, I think a paid aspect to this site is a really bad idea. If ability to pay for the membership is the criteria, that in no way ensures that the people paying will have a mature discussion, or will have knowledge that is worth paying for.

 

Second, for those of you who are running into this ban, and think that simply using a new id, a new credit card, and a new address are all you need to do, you need to rethink that. Specially what I mean here is that if you're using the same computer/device they will know it's you. I'm about 100% certain TLG is tracking both IP and MAC address when you order from S@H, and they will associate you with any previously banned accounts. You need to do something to mask those addresses if you want to use the same computer or device to order from S@H. There are a couple of guys here who know what a MAC address is, but for those of you who don't, it's basically a unique identifier for a network interface, usually assigned by the manufacturer of the network controller. You need to mask both IP and MAC address or they will ban you again. There is software readily available that will do this, or you can just ensure that you use a completely different device for each account. This is a workaround that you really need to consider, or else all of your efforts to get a new id, credit card, address, etc.. will be fruitless.

It's too bad you feel this way.  I have always valued your posts and could count on an intelligent reply.  To be quite honest, I'm disappointed in your stance on this matter.  I have heard many intelligent and informative members say they just "lurk" for fear of the mentally challenged on the forums.  There is an old saying...

 

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Edmund Burke

 

Well, let me convert this to something that is related to any social forum...

 

The only thing necessary for the triumph of forum spammers and spazzes is for intelligent men to "lurk."

 

See my point?  With all due respect, the only way to make a forum better is having the intelligent members participate in discussions.  By lurking and purposely withholding your views, you are no better than the  "oh-cool-I-can-make-money-with-LEGO" people you complain about.  They offer nothing and neither do you.  

[StarCityBrickCompany]

This forum does have a filtering system. You can filter out all the people you don't want, so I guess you can try to ban everyone other than they people you do want to read.  I think its called Ignore users.

 

I thought I had tried that before (it was a while back & didn't seem to work). But if that works - Thanks, You have solved my life's problems:)

[Diabolos80]

On the topic of forum decorum (heh) and niceties: 2 people agreeing never learned anything new from each other. For those who think Diabolos is just a fancy word for devil, it actually means devil's advocate. As in, I like to stir the pot so new knowledge can rise to the skim. Whether other, less reformed members stir the pot for the same reason or not, the result is the same. To use ebay policies as an example: if i said they were stupid, you would tell me I was wrong, and why. This scenario is much more likely than you starting a thread to congratulate ebay on the fantastic job it's doing.

If nobody ever complained about getting blacklisted, nobody else would know it might happen to them, too. And if nobody played the part of defender for the mighty TLG, this would have been a very short, repetitive conversation.

[Jeff Mack]

I can certainly understand that feeling - I have been there and have taken breaks as well. Regarding the private forum - your decision to not participate in forums any longer is a good example of why it would be helpful. Sometimes there is too much junk being tossed around that it feels like a HS locker room. I don't have any problems with new people looking to learn, but there are some here who don't really want to learn anything - they just want to stir up trouble.

 

What I was looking to get was a filter that would allow only specific users posts to be visible (not a paid premium forum). Having this option could keep people from getting frustrated and feeling that they just need to quit the forums.

 

 

Guys, here is what I can do for you.  I can put you guys and whoever else wants to go into this "special group" and I will create a special forum for you.  You will be the only ones to have access to this, but you will also lose access to the rest of the entire forum so then you won't have to be bothered with the other stuff going on. You will just see this one forum.  Does that work for you? 

[Jackson]

I wish there was a way to know who is a full-time seller.  New badge perhaps?

[pickleboy]

I wish there was a way to know who is a full-time seller.  New badge perhaps?

NARC!!!!    Just kidding....

While I bet LEGO reads forums for customer feedback, I doubt they waste a whole lot of time trying to figure out who we are.

If LEGO really wanted to ban resellers...    It's not hard to find the big LEGO resellers on ebay....buy something from them...boom you got all the sellers info when they ship the item.

I wouldn't worry about this too much if you aren't the biggest of the big.  It's impossible to hide from them if they really want to know who you are.

I have no idea if this crack down was all happeneing prior to May the 4th but my guess is they sold way more set than they intended to and when people are buying 10-15-20 sets they know those are all reselllers... 

I think the lesson here is be smart about it.  Don't buy too many sets at one time from LEGO Shop at Home .  Plan accordingly...just another hurdle in the road to LEGO riches.  Who knows, maybe they do know what they are doing and this will increase the value of the sets in the long run.  If Lego didn't give a rats ass about collectors / investors then they wouldn't make collectors editions.

 

[pickleboy]

Guys, here is what I can do for you.  I can put you guys and whoever else wants to go into this "special group" and I will create a special forum for you.  You will be the only ones to have access to this, but you will also lose access to the rest of the entire forum so then you won't have to be bothered with the other stuff going on. You will just see this one forum.  Does that work for you? 

Can I get a forum where ONLY I can see it, read it and post to it?    Kthnx 

[scottjs]

This thread has been a very interesting read with good points from both sides. For every idea I come up with as to why this will hurt Lego I can also see a nearly equal benefit. Unless Lego want to start making rehashes of discontinued sets (which they do when they update sets) there is always going to be value in retired sets especially those that THEY limited based on purchasing amounts or region availability. If they limit the exclusives more then the after market value will only go up. The way they've gone about this only limits big time resellers from buying directly through them so in the end they're still probably making money except now it's through one of their resellers like Amazon, Target, TRU, Walmart etc. That doesn't seem like a smart business move on the one hand but if Lego stores have more stock, that means more happy everyday mom and dads and more returning/life long customers. Another way to combat resellers is to expand into those areas that do not have Lego readlily available, increase production, and lower prices in already established regions. My brain tingling with all the different angles of this, thanks everyone!

 

Thanks Ed for not entertaining the idea of a paid section of this site, I love it just the way it is. For the posts I don't care for I relate it to my job where select people I work with become white noise when they open their mouths. It's called character building.

[emes]

Emes, don't let the whiners get ya down, man. Look at it this way: every time someone whines, argues, or disagrees, it's a chance to better inform the rest of the members with a closer approximation of the truth. Without a wrong observation in need of correction, the right one might never be spoken.

 

Thanks...I know that I can choose whether or not I read anything here, and I've made that choice many times. That's certainly not the issue. The issue I have is that I don't want to be associated with a community that behaves that way, or encourages that type of behavior. I know this is the Internet and it's largely the wild west, but some of the people that have posted some of the absurd nonsense we see from time-to-time really need to have their heads checked.

 

Just to be clear, I don't think that this is from lack of policing from the Macks, or that they should even set or attempt to enforce any policy around this behavior. This is largely something the community has to decide to do on its own.

[Fcbarcelona101]

Thanks...I know that I can choose whether or not I read anything here, and I've made that choice many times. That's certainly not the issue. The issue I have is that I don't want to be associated with a community that behaves that way, or encourages that type of behavior. I know this is the Internet and it's largely the wild west, but some of the people that have posted some of the absurd nonsense we see from time-to-time really need to have their heads checked.

 

Just to be clear, I don't think that this is from lack of policing from the Macks, or that they should even set or attempt to enforce any policy around this behavior. This is largely something the community has to decide to do on its own.

 

Your points are well taken. As Ed previously suggested I encourage you to keep participating the same way you have been doing in the past, as the more quality posters we have in the forum, the more we will attract in the future. This is still a pretty young forum, give it some time and I am sure it will keep getting better.

 

Hope to keep reading your comments, they are always very useful.

[Ed Mack]

Thanks...I know that I can choose whether or not I read anything here, and I've made that choice many times. That's certainly not the issue. The issue I have is that I don't want to be associated with a community that behaves that way, or encourages that type of behavior. I know this is the Internet and it's largely the wild west, but some of the people that have posted some of the absurd nonsense we see from time-to-time really need to have their heads checked.

 

Just to be clear, I don't think that this is from lack of policing from the Macks, or that they should even set or attempt to enforce any policy around this behavior. This is largely something the community has to decide to do on its own.

This is something that improves over time with a maturing forum.  We are getting there and the site forum is much improved from a year ago.  The more intelligent forum members we have posting, the better example will be set for others, thus improving quality.  I would like for you to be part of the solution and improve the quality of the forum.  

[emes]

This has been a great thread.  Really great reading until I got to this post.  I think you are a very good poster on this site, but in my opinion you come off quite bad here.  Basically you are saying that your words are better than everyone else's so now we all need to suffer because you are not going to share you great wisdom.  I think that sets a horrible example and probably quite the opposite of what the owners of the site want here.  So you are saying that there should be a "special" forum for people like you and that you guys will pay for this.  How many will be in there, maybe 5.  That's a real great idea (rolling eyes)... 

 

You might have misunderstood me. I'm not saying any such thing, nor am I saying that I have any great wisdom that you need. I never said there should be a "special" forum for anyone, and I certainly wouldn't participate in it if there was one...I said the community has to decide what kind of community it wants to be.

 

For the record, I don't know how you'd vet who gets to be in the "special" forum, so the idea is DOA to me.

 

But your reply is exactly what bothers me about this site. You haven't taken the time to comprehend what I'm actually saying.

 

There is an old Chinese proverb that basically says "give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime."

 

With few exceptions, when people have asked me things on this site it has been of the "give me a fish" variety. In other words, I've been asked "tell me what product to buy and where to buy it and when to sell it", along with a host of other questions that I likely don't know the specific answers to. That's basically begging and it's not what I want to do nor do I want to encourage it. 

 

I'd rather be on not only the teaching people to fish side of things, but also like to learn from others what they know about fishing. There are a lot of guys here who know a ton of stuff, and I've definitely benefitted. Their voices are often overwhelmed by those who know very little.

 

It's a simple choice regarding the type of community I want to be a part of, and I'm not saying I'm better than you or that I have some great wealth of knowledge that you need, and that I'm going to withhold it from you.