LEGO S@H "Black Listing": Did you ever receive this re-sale warning from Shop at Home?

[What_does_the_future_hold]

To everyone who thinks your local Lego store is a safe haven I have news for you. LEGO is now blacklisting customers at store level. Some if not all of the stores have now been given a physical list on a clipboard (as well as the registers now flagging you) of people who are now receiving those same "email pink slips" and are being asked to never shop in the store again. We've seen it happen right in front of us to another reseller (it was a little sad and embarassing to watch) just this week and thankfully the manager came and told us in person before we got to the register since he knows us.

[Alcarin]

False......times frame does matter to LEGO. If I am selling my sets while they are still available from LEGO then I am their competiton. If I am selling after the set is retired then am I still their competition?? Nope! You are saying investors and resellers are the same because they both sell sets. To be honest I'm confused why TLG even cares about resellers.......they got paid originally regardless of how many times a sets changes hands through a sale. No one is making Lego bricks in their laboratory and then reselling them.

 

 

From an accounting standpoint, (and as far as the IRS is concerned), there actually is a big difference between a reseller and an investor. Doesnt matter if its Lego, real estate, coins, or whatever. Many of us blur those lines the more Lego we purchase.

 

 

You are always their competition Stephen... If there would be 0 resellers/investors everyone would be ''forced'' to buy new LEGO products or 0. 

 

So in a way we are always a competition to LEGO.

 

LEGO would surely PREFER or want that all their sets purchased end up being opened and played with and never changing hands. 

[comicblast]

To everyone who thinks your local Lego store is a safe haven I have news for you. LEGO is now blacklisting customers at store level. Some if not all of the stores have now been given a physical list on a clipboard (as well as the registers now flagging you) of people who are now receiving those same "email pink slips" and are being asked to never shop in the store again. We've seen it happen right in front of us to another reseller (it was a little sad and embarassing to watch) just this week and thankfully the manager came and told us in person before we got to the register since he knows us.

I've never seen this, and to me, it seems so desperate a move, that I'll have to see it for myself to believe it. I'm not saying that you are wrong, but I'll need some proof of this. Hard to label someone as a reseller if they buy 3 copies of the same set. What if the person has kids or knows kids that are triplets? 

[Ed Mack]

To everyone who thinks your local Lego store is a safe haven I have news for you. LEGO is now blacklisting customers at store level. Some if not all of the stores have now been given a physical list on a clipboard (as well as the registers now flagging you) of people who are now receiving those same "email pink slips" and are being asked to never shop in the store again. We've seen it happen right in front of us to another reseller (it was a little sad and embarassing to watch) just this week and thankfully the manager came and told us in person before we got to the register since he knows us.

I will vouch for this member and to the validity of his statement.  I will leave it up to him on whether or not he wants to further elaborate on his situation...

[jaisonline]

Sounds very Socialistic of you.  Let's develop LEGO "welfare," so that the less fortunate can have every LEGO set.

Please don't even joke about this. Then again, I'm sure we can get a great deal on buying Lego per dollar like when people sold their food stamps for cash

[jaisonline]

To everyone who thinks your local Lego store is a safe haven I have news for you. LEGO is now blacklisting customers at store level. Some if not all of the stores have now been given a physical list on a clipboard (as well as the registers now flagging you) of people who are now receiving those same "email pink slips" and are being asked to never shop in the store again.

So if you want sets that only Lego sells, pay cash. Makes me remember when 90% of all sales regardless of industry were cash. At least with cash, historic purchases are hard to trace.

[What_does_the_future_hold]

I have sent Ed and Jeff a picture of the paper handed to me as well as some other information and opinions. I suck at posting photos on message boards but if Ed could post it I have no problem with that. I am a fairly active member of this site but have no interest using my normal username to discuss this for any number of reasons. I suppose every store will choose to enforce these directives as they see fit but I can assure you I was told it was 1) a company directive 2) a non-negotiable for the managers/employees to enforce, and 3)not going away anytime soon. So as I see it, old guard managers may still favor the dollars that their favored resellers bring them but with more of them heading out the door the new company men won't have those allegiences.

 

Edited July 20, 2013 by Jeff Mack
I added the photo

[JoshTX]

-1 for the third rule. It is flawed. And tell me if I buy 2 funhouses at lego price and get VIP points and a free hulk fig- did I really pay full retail?

-1 to the attitude about being happy to see a 'big dog' flagged (your words). Seriously, jealous much? I wouldn't even call myself big time. Why would this community be happy about that? Doesn't everyone here aspire to be a 'big dog?' If not then why are you here. Just invest in stock market.

Like I have said - I have purchased 50 funhouses over time that they have been available, mostly when a good promo is available like hulk or zombie car or jor-el. Never all at once.

So, to everyone else who is buying from shop at home and making money (as I am) b careful with how much you buy of which set and when. Thankfully I live in a state with 2 lego stores.

This has been another discussion which would have gone better if we had a paid member section of the forums. Something I hope the Mack's consider. I would be happy to contribute directly to the site to improve the discussion of serious investor topics.

This is a discussion that affects every single person who logs onto our site, whether you are just curious about the value of your collection or a hard core reseller.   The vast majority of members are concerned with the value of their LEGO collection.  To restrict  quality discussion among an elite few would not be in the best interest of the site IMO.  StarBrickCity brought this point up previously and while it has some merit, there are more negatives than positives in my view.  

 

This site accepts all sorts of LEGO fans and to make a special section for a select few could upset the rest of the members.  A topic like this needs to be discussed by all members, because it can affect all members.

Glad Ed came in to squash this horrid idea. If this place became a "paid" site, I'd be done here. Not that the big spenders would care, but there are a few of us who remain "small time" for a reason - in my case I invest in many other things and like to diversify, which is why you won't ever see me buying 50 funhouses, though I have the money to do so. I don't necessarily agree with Diabolos in that your buying power should be limited - hell I don't really care because I'll figure something else out, I've been doing that and doing it well for the past 15 years. But I feel that this is moving in a direction of many of the larger investors simply "assuming" that the rest of us are dealing in chump change and that they should be reserved some sort of golden mecca of topic discussion.  

 

Further, I feel like that would take this site in a direction different than what the Mack's vision for this place was. I don't want to speak for the teeny-boppers who frequent this site, but kids like Comicblast and Darth Lego have learned alot about not only investing, but life in general from listening to the advice of some of the big dogs around here. I think that's something you guys should be proud of...seriously. Do you really want to throw up walls and leave those kids out to talk in private? Is it that big of a deal? Those guys are learning alot from you, and if we could get more kids to learn to be fiscally responsible and smart like they are, we probably wouldn't have the problems with welfare and other government assistance that we do. This next generation needs the mentorship that YOU can provide. Just my two cents.

[TheDarkness]

I fully agree with you about that issue...

 

When I first saw limit on LEGO shop I thought LIMIT 5 really meant that 1 registered user can only purchase 5 sets on LEGO online shop OVERALL and not in 1 order.

 

So you buy 5 Kingdoms chess sets and thats it.... you cannot buy anymore.

 

I was mistaken obviously... so for such reason I see no good use in limits except it takes longer to make more orders and others might get orders done before items go out of stock

Just out of curiosity is the Minecraft set an exception to this?

I ordered 5 previously and Lego cancelled a second order of 5 stating they had limits and didnt want anyone to miss out.

[comicblast]

Glad Ed came in to squash this horrid idea. If this place became a "paid" site, I'd be done here. Not that the big spenders would care, but there are a few of us who remain "small time" for a reason - in my case I invest in many other things and like to diversify, which is why you won't ever see me buying 50 funhouses, though I have the money to do so. I don't necessarily agree with Diabolos in that your buying power should be limited - hell I don't really care because I'll figure something else out, I've been doing that and doing it well for the past 15 years. But I feel that this is moving in a direction of many of the larger investors simply "assuming" that the rest of us are dealing in chump change and that they should be reserved some sort of golden mecca of topic discussion.  

 

Further, I feel like that would take this site in a direction different than what the Mack's vision for this place was. I don't want to speak for the teeny-boppers who frequent this site, but kids like Comicblast and Darth Lego have learned alot about not only investing, but life in general from listening to the advice of some of the big dogs around here. I think that's something you guys should be proud of...seriously. Do you really want to throw up walls and leave those kids out to talk in private? Is it that big of a deal? Those guys are learning alot from you, and if we could get more kids to learn to be fiscally responsible and smart like they are, we probably wouldn't have the problems with welfare and other government assistance that we do. This next generation needs the mentorship that YOU can provide. Just my two cents.

+Over 9000.

Well said. I don't think anyone could have said it better. I think I speak for both DL and I, that we have learned so much from everyone here at BrickPicker, not only about LEGO's and fun and games, but about managing my money, what to do with it, and how to spend it. Before this, I would have spent all my money on Clone Troopers and Jedi minifigures...for $5 a pop. Not exactly what you would call responsible nor "money-smart". I think that you guys have also learned from us teens, how we suck at grammar, and how people can change for the better if they are given the right circumstances and people to work with. Gosh, this is turning into some mushy adult thing isn't it....  

[lowillsw]

Thank you for sharing your message from Lego.  I feel this just shows that we have to be careful when it comes to ordering in large quantities on shop at home.  I would just make up other accounts sending it to a PO box instead of your house or go elsewhere accumulating them.  It's like a big investor going to different brokers instead of using just 1 so no one knows you are putting together a huge position in stocks.

 

Lego just wants to let others get their hands on their products.  Since 1 person is buying 50 funhouse (an exclusive only sold at LEGO Shop at Home and TRU) in a short time that means that's an extra 50 out of circulation.  I'm sure many of us are buying the funhouse and storing them away.  That basically take that away from the mom and pop buying for their kids.  That is a turnoff for these parents that need the toy instantly and they'll probably spend the 40 somewhere else.  Parents will go for alternatives away from Lego when these exclusives like the funhouse are in constant shortage.

 

I walk into the Lego store to buy the rock band set on clearance and been told there is a limit of 5 for any item by the staff.  It's not written anywhere but don't let the staff make it clear to you.  It just told them I want the extra mini figure or have your gf or family member get it for you.

[Diabolos80]

I think if some people want to deprive the rest of the members of knowledge through a paid site, those people should be deprived of the knowledge shared on the free half. Just because I don't drop 2 grand a month doesn't mean I'm not hip to the game. Believe it.

[Ed Mack]

I think if some people want to deprive the rest of the members of knowledge through a paid site, those people should be deprived of the knowledge shared on the free half. Just because I don't drop 2 grand a month doesn't mean I'm not hip to the game. Believe it.

The best part of this site and the one that saves people money is the sharing of ideas, sales and deals.  If we restrict communication among members, the site is done.

[What_does_the_future_hold]

I hope the "paid site / free site" topic doesn't hijack what is a very critical topic. That being said, I hate the idea. If we only look to those at or above our level how will we ever learn from those with fresh ideas who are new to the game? If someone want to have their own reindeer games go start your own site and I'm sure you'll attract those who share your sentiment. Ed and Jeff clearly don't feel that's how they want this site to work so we just have to accept there will be plenty of noobs to match with the pros. This is a community that has fought itself for too long and it's because of that behavior that we don't have a voice. Ed and Jeff give us that voice more than any other site. Sure I subscribe to FTBT, ToysNBricks, HothBricks, etc but those are far more on the fan side of the spectrum. I was on board with Jeff and Ed from day one because they get "us". They understand business and the business of Lego reselling. Now any of you that honestly think you're not one of the hated resellers because you call yourself an investor is dillusional. We're not welcome either way. It's all business one way or another and whether there's people like me who pay taxes on it and have a corporation to do it through or some stay at home dad who's staying just under the IRS limit for reportable income it doesn't matter. We all do the same thing; we look for deals, we buy them up, and we wait until they appreciate before selling. So if one group here thinks they're better than the other please take a step back and look at what we need to do as a collective group to make things better for everyone. Pointing fingers doesn't help. I can take responsiblity for the holes I put in a stores shelf, can you?

[Diabolos80]

-1 for the third rule. It is flawed. And tell me if I buy 2 funhouses at lego price and get VIP points and a free hulk fig- did I really pay full retail?

-1 to the attitude about being happy to see a 'big dog' flagged (your words). Seriously, jealous much? I wouldn't even call myself big time. Why would this community be happy about that? Doesn't everyone here aspire to be a 'big dog?' If not then why are you here. Just invest in stock market.

Like I have said - I have purchased 50 funhouses over time that they have been available, mostly when a good promo is available like hulk or zombie car or jor-el. Never all at once.

So, to everyone else who is buying from shop at home and making money (as I am) b careful with how much you buy of which set and when. Thankfully I live in a state with 2 lego stores.

This has been another discussion which would have gone better if we had a paid member section of the forums. Something I hope the Mack's consider. I would be happy to contribute directly to the site to improve the discussion of serious investor topics.

The third rule was a joke, dude. A play on Fight Club. Obviously we all pay retail sometimes.

I stand by my big dog statement. It's not about jealousy, it's about market sustainability. Lego wants to sell their products to the intended consumer at the intended prices. If you mess it up for Lego, Lego will mess it up for me.

And no, not everyone here aspires to be a high volume seller. This is a diverse community of builders, collectors, bargain hunters, parents, kids, and people who love Lego because it's a fun toy, not because it's a commodity. If all you think about is making money, why are you here? Go invest in the stock market instead :p

[TheDarkness]

If all you think about is making money, why are you here? Go invest in the stock market instead

Nah. If a stock crashes I am left with nothing. If Lego crashes I have an army of Batmen fighting an army of Joker clones in one massive sadistic funhouse :D

[Deez_Brickz]

The third rule was a joke, dude. A play on Fight Club. Obviously we all pay retail sometimes.

I stand by my big dog statement. It's not about jealousy, it's about market sustainability. Lego wants to sell their products to the intended consumer at the intended prices. If you mess it up for Lego, Lego will mess it up for me.

And no, not everyone here aspires to be a high volume seller. This is a diverse community of builders, collectors, bargain hunters, parents, kids, and people who love Lego because it's a fun toy, not because it's a commodity. If all you think about is making money, why are you here? Go invest in the stock market instead

I am quite surprised how many responses my thread has generated.

We can drop the discussion of paid forums - it was just a suggestion that had already been evaluated. No further need to discuss.

The irony is that the majority >80% of my purchases are not direct from lego. However this bums me out because I may have to work harder to obtain exclusive sets like: the funhouse, new BTTF, new limited crawler, new minecrafts. All which I think will be very profitable.

Since we don't know lego's reseller algorithm then we all need to be careful with order quantities and timing.

I would love to see further discussion on anyone else who had been flagged and their buying patterns and what can be done as a work around. Because the bottom line is our bottom lines are definitely impacted as investors if we are banned from purchasing direct from lego. I am here to profit as I am sure many others are.

I will find out for sure when I try to order new exclusive sets very soon. I will be careful with order quantities and timing for sure and I probably will use a new cc number and no VIP account. I can survive the 5% hit. Any other suggestions are welcome.

Thanks.

[What_does_the_future_hold]

One of the things I do know that is Lego always shoots a couple warning shots before blacklisting the account. I would say I got maybe 2-3 emails over a couple month period and despite modifying my orders even to the point of only ordering one item per order I was formally blacklisted in May. Good times....

 

Oh and did I mention I was also told that I no longer have the ability to access any of my VIP dollars? Yep, they're history. Glad I used most of them before I was banned from the store. All in all I only lost about $25 but had I not used them it would've been hundreds.

[spener90]

The only thing that really frustrates me about Lego's policy is that they have limited who can buy directly from them by basically squashing out people like emazers, yet then turn around and say that they aren't willing to even sell, at retail none the less, sets to a person because they have a policy against resellers.  I don't mind them limiting sets that are high in demand to make sure that people have a fair shot at it, but in some cases, why would they even care?  For example, if you check Lego.com, they have a limit on the amount of battle packs that you can purchase of each particular set.  This is too much for me.  If when a set is being retired or launched they did this to spread out the last little bit of sets going out, I would say it's fine, but when they do it to sets in the middle of a cycle it doesn't work.

 

To sum up a rambling paragraph. It would appear that Lego is favoring the big guys, not the big buyers on here, but Amazon, Target, and Walmart.  This is the frustrating part of it in my opinion.

[pickleboy]

LEGO is certainly not infallible. How far out are they from almost going bankrupt?  This is stupid and if they were a public company share holders would be up in arms.    If a reseller was cutting into my overseas business I wouldn't get mad at the 1,000's of resellers who paid for/buy my product, I would be upset with my company and wonder how the hell some kid in his basement can sell something in (whatever country) better than my company can.  I know people like to look at investors / collectors as second class citizens but they/we spend real money too and alienating even 1% of your customers is generally bad business.   (Especially when that one percent spends as much as we do.)  
 

 

Although maybe I am 100% wrong and harassing people who want to buy your product is brilliant. Glad I don't buy too many sets from them directly...

[Alcarin]

 

To sum up a rambling paragraph. It would appear that Lego is favoring the big guys, not the big buyers on here, but Amazon, Target, and Walmart. This is the frustrating part of it in my opinion.

 

 

I agree

 

their limiting ways makes no sense overall...

 

They should indeed limit the purchase of soon to retire and hard to find exclusive sets HEAVILY (maybe even max 2 per customer) but not the regular battle packs and so on....

 

the purpose of such sets is multi purchase anyway

 

 

 

I think LEGO might frustrate some people with such policy, unless they adapt their limiting policy to more proactive.

 

 

I think their bottom effort is on the right track but is useless as long as 

 

a) other LEGO sellers (amazon etc.) do not enforce the same rule (so globally)

their limits are not more proactive and humane (battle packs) and untill they do not put severe limits on sets only LEGO stores carry (Funhouse etc)

[emes]

I'm mostly not interested in participating in the forum discussions any longer, hence my recent absence. I feel like there are too many people here looking for knowledge that aren't necessarily willing to share the same in return, or don't have it to share in return. I might change my mind in the future, most likely when some of the "oh-cool-I-can-make-money-with-LEGO people" are shook out of the market through incompetence. I'm certain that sounds arrogant, but it reflects exactly how I feel. For the time being I'm going to lurk.

 

That aside, this is a good discussion, and I've enjoyed following it, and I want to add two things to this discussion.

 

First, I think a paid aspect to this site is a really bad idea. If ability to pay for the membership is the criteria, that in no way ensures that the people paying will have a mature discussion, or will have knowledge that is worth paying for.

 

Second, for those of you who are running into this ban, and think that simply using a new id, a new credit card, and a new address are all you need to do, you need to rethink that. Specially what I mean here is that if you're using the same computer/device they will know it's you. I'm about 100% certain TLG is tracking both IP and MAC address when you order from LEGO Shop at Home, and they will associate you with any previously banned accounts. You need to do something to mask those addresses if you want to use the same computer or device to order from LEGO Shop at Home. There are a couple of guys here who know what a MAC address is, but for those of you who don't, it's basically a unique identifier for a network interface, usually assigned by the manufacturer of the network controller. You need to mask both IP and MAC address or they will ban you again. There is software readily available that will do this, or you can just ensure that you use a completely different device for each account. This is a workaround that you really need to consider, or else all of your efforts to get a new id, credit card, address, etc.. will be fruitless.

[JoshTX]

One of the things I do know that is Lego always shoots a couple warning shots before blacklisting the account. I would say I got maybe 2-3 emails over a couple month period and despite modifying my orders even to the point of only ordering one item per order I was formally blacklisted in May. Good times....

 

Oh and did I mention I was also told that I no longer have the ability to access any of my VIP dollars? Yep, they're history. Glad I used most of them before I was banned from the store. All in all I only lost about $25 but had I not used them it would've been hundreds.

 

I don't know how much the $25 you lost or how much the hundreds you almost lost would've affected you because I don't know what kind of volume you are working with, but for whatever it's worth, you have my condolences even if you are a big fish in the pond. While Lego and many of my other investments are fun "side" hobbies, I realize that for some others this isn't the case. I know not many on here invest and resell as a primary source of income, but some may depend on this source of income to a much higher degree than I do.  

[What_does_the_future_hold]

It was explained to me that their computer system had now been updated to flag (in addition to having a clipboard with local names on it) what they called

[pickleboy]

I'm mostly not interested in participating in the forum discussions any longer, hence my recent absence. I feel like there are too many people here looking for knowledge that aren't necessarily willing to share the same in return, or don't have it to share in return. I might change my mind in the future, most likely when some of the "oh-cool-I-can-make-money-with-LEGO people" are shook out of the market through incompetence. I'm certain that sounds arrogant, but it reflects exactly how I feel. For the time being I'm going to lurk.

 

 

BOOOOO!  I like reading your stuff.  Certainly our loss...