An AFOL's nightmare.

[Huskers1236]

Anakin, I'm 19, so let's cross our fingers and toes that I'm not a father. Also, I certainly don't feel like you are picking on me and I'm pretty sure nobody else does either. Why are some users of this site so quick to apologize for "bullying" when having a nice debate/discussion. I created this thread (A) to show how ridiculous the company who runs the LEGO Discovery location is being for having a rule like they do. So quite simply I also believe you are being ridiculous too. (B)You are pretty much saying that the company has the right to discriminate against members of the population who don't meet specific requirements. Who said that all senior citizens who don't have children/grandchildren are pedophiles or can be dangerous? Nobody. Can't a sexual predator also present himself/herself as a young child (tween/teen)? Yes. 

 

©So basically, if you believe that once a person has a child, every thing "changes" and becomes so much more "dangerous" all of a sudden then the LDC and other places that have similar policies should not even be allowed to operate. Because frankly, by practicing such a policy, (D)they are saying that they see their entertainment location as a possible hot-spot for sexual predators and criminals. So if you think you are being a good parent by applauding the company's decision, I'm simply going to have to disagree. (E)If you truly did want your children to be fully protected, surely you wouldn't take them to a place that draws attention from pedophiles , right?

 

*The above thoughts are mine and mine only and do not represent the thoughts of other members of this forum. 

 

I will break it down this way, since I see it the way some of the other guys do.  I have bolded the areas of your text I want to talk about, because we obviously see the world in much different eyes.  You're 19, I'm 36.  I have 2 kids, ages 7 and 3.  Just giving demographics, nothing more. 

 

A. A company can have any rule they want, it's their business to do what they want if they deem it appropriate.  There are obvious reasons why they have this rule, and we all know why they have this rule, no sense putting our heads in the sand about pedophiles.

 

B. Every theme park in the United States discriminates against a portion of their patrons.  Ever see the little sign that says you have to be "this tall" to ride the really cool ride your parents paid to bring you in to ride?  That's discrimination.  Pure and simple, it is discriminating against young patrons because it would be unsafe for them to ride the ride.  Is it unfair for the kids??

 

C. Yes, everything about your entire life and mindset changes when you have children.  You are not thinking about yourself anymore, you are thinking about the well being of your children.  24/7.  If not, you are not being a parent.

 

D. It's an attraction that is dedicated to a children's toy.  Yes, it is a hotspot for pedophiles, it's why the rule is in place in the first place.  Just because Chuck E. Cheese doesn't have this policy doesn't make it wrong.

 

E.  You want to know a place that draws attention to pedophiles that children go to everyday???  School.  It is a real problem and I think you are letting your love of Lego cloud your judgement.

 

I don't want to bang on you about this, but it is personal to everybody here that has kids.  I don't give a rat's ass if this person was sad because they couldn't go look at Lego with their grown child.  It is the rule.  If it keeps just a single child in the world from getting abused, then the rule has done it's job.  END OF STORY.

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

I will break it down this way, since I see it the way some of the other guys do.  I have bolded the areas of your text I want to talk about, because we obviously see the world in much different eyes.  You're 19, I'm 36.  I have 2 kids, ages 7 and 3.  Just giving demographics, nothing more. 

 

A. A company can have any rule they want, it's their business to do what they want if they deem it appropriate.  There are obvious reasons why they have this rule, and we all know why they have this rule, no sense putting our heads in the sand about pedophiles.

 

B. Every theme park in the United States discriminates against a portion of their patrons.  Ever see the little sign that says you have to be "this tall" to ride the really cool ride your parents paid to bring you in to ride?  That's discrimination.  Pure and simple, it is discriminating against young patrons because it would be unsafe for them to ride the ride.  Is it unfair for the kids??

 

C. Yes, everything about your entire life and mindset changes when you have children.  You are not thinking about yourself anymore, you are thinking about the well being of your children.  24/7.  If not, you are not being a parent.

 

D. It's an attraction that is dedicated to a children's toy.  Yes, it is a hotspot for pedophiles, it's why the rule is in place in the first place.  Just because Chuck E. Cheese doesn't have this policy doesn't make it wrong.

 

E.  You want to know a place that draws attention to pedophiles that children go to everyday???  School.  It is a real problem and I think you are letting your love of Lego cloud your judgement.

 

I don't want to bang on you about this, but it is personal to everybody here that has kids.  I don't give a rat's ass if this person was sad because they couldn't go look at Lego with their grown child.  It is the rule.  If it keeps just a single child in the world from getting abused, then the rule has done it's job.  END OF STORY.

 

I definitely understand the thoughts here - I don't have children, but I have kept children and several of my friends and family have children that I consider my own as well and have been in situations like this as well.

 

I think this can go both ways. But some of it gets out of hand which is why things like this are looked down on. Parents should watch their children. When I take my cousins kids out, they do not leave my side.

 

I agree things can happen still - but there are a lot of pedophiles that have children to get closer to kids. I would say its actually just as likely a person there with a kid would be a pedophile than someone without one.

 

I think some of this gets back to the bad parents - none of you all included at all - that are too lazy to watch their kids properly. They blame rules when things happen, and stuff like this becomes the norm.

 

For example, someone up the street from me complains that cars don't slow down (they are already going the speed limit) when passing her house as her kids may be out in the middle of the street playing. I contended to the HOA that I do this ( because I'm careful and also don't want to be sued) but I think this Women should watch her children as its irresponsible to allow them to play in the street without her out there.

 

A similar situation in my Cousin's neighborhood led to a kid drowning in a neighbors pool - now in that neighborhood you can't have a pool.

 

Point is - while i definitely agree rules should be in place, at some point they get so ridiculous that they are allowing irresponsible people to rest easier by punishing normal people without children.

 

But hey - I would agree that if these provisions save one child, I am all for them so who knows?

[LowestFormOfWit]

Chuck E. Cheese's man... and I've seen parents do some terrible things lately. There is a difference between raising smart kids who can avoid dangerous situations and being over protective and suffocating. 

Sorry. Until you have a child you won't understand the word "over-protective". There are very few measures that I find too extreme when it comes to protecting my daughter. You can lose them in a second in some situations. I have a small heart attack and adrenaline spike when I can't see my little one for more than 3 seconds when I'm out in a store. It's worse because my daughter seems to enjoy freaking me out and has all but mastered the art of hanging in my blind spot, and shifting behind me to avoid my eyes.

 

That said, I will never, ever, ever approve the use of these things:

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

However I do agree that a business can do what it wants. But I doubt they are doing it for anything other than Liability.

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

Sorry. Until you have a child you won't understand the word "over-protective". There are very few measures that I find too extreme when it comes to protecting my daughter. You can lose them in a second in some situations. I have a small heart attack and adrenaline spike when I can't see my little one for more than 3 seconds when I'm out in a store. It's worse because my daughter seems to enjoy freaking me out and has all but mastered the art of hanging in my blind spot, and shifting behind me to avoid my eyes.

 

That said, I will never, ever, ever approve the use of these things:

 

WHOA YOU MEAN CHILDREN SHOULDN"T BE TREATED LIKE DOGS IN PUBLIC?!?!?!?!?

[LowestFormOfWit]

However I do agree that a business can do what it wants. But I doubt they are doing it for anything other than Liability.

It's reason enough, unfortunately. While I don't agree with age discrimination, they have to cover their own ass like everyone else in this poor, sick world. When it comes to an old guy missing out on a LEGO show or an open door to older, single men entering a mostly child's park, I'm going to stick with LEGO's current policy.

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

It's reason enough, unfortunately. While I don't agree with age discrimination, they have to cover their own ass like everyone else in this poor, sick world. When it comes to an old guy missing out on a LEGO show or an open door to older, single men entering a mostly child's park, I'm going to stick with LEGO's current policy.

 

On a related subject, do you all ever watch Law and Order SVU?

 

[Diabolos80]

I remember a story about an older (55+) man who was asked to leave to childrens' section at a Barnes & Noble. Apparently he was sitting on the floor in a corner, engrossed in a book, and he ended up on the sidewalk. I'm not sure how I feel about that one. I do think the environment is more constrained and less chaotic, thus more easily monitored while my kid breaks stuff and refuses to read less than 4 books at once, spread across the entire width of an aisle. I would probably leave the guy be, but I wouldn't have my nose buried in a videogame magazine.

At a busy, sprawling, hysterical place like a theme park, hell, I wouldn't even have the focus to notice him.

In fact, I think LegoLand's policies oblige my family to visit their wonderful parks, and I will convince my wife of this :)

[LowestFormOfWit]

On a related subject, do you all ever watch Law and Order SVU?

 

Actually, yes, but that's a separate matter entirely. I've never been able to peel myself away from Law and Order. I think it's genetic. My father and I both do it. If I pass by the TV and it's on, I'll kind of keep looking, then stand there, then migrate to a couch end, then before you know it I've sat through a few episodes. So much time lost.

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

I remember a story about an older (55+) man who was asked to leave to childrens' section at a Barnes & Noble. Apparently he was sitting on the floor in a corner, engrossed in a book, and he ended up on the sidewalk. I'm not sure how I feel about that one. I do think the environment is more constrained and less chaotic, thus more easily monitored while my kid breaks stuff and refuses to read less than 4 books at once, spread across the entire width of an aisle. I would probably leave the guy be, but I wouldn't have my nose buried in a videogame magazine.

At a busy, sprawling, hysterical place like a theme park, hell, I wouldn't even have the focus to notice him.

In fact, I think LegoLand's policies oblige my family to visit their wonderful parks, and I will convince my wife of this

 

Its definitely all situational. Thats why I lean towards putting the burden on myself more than others and rules. But that can bite me just as the other way. There are a lot of abnormal people who are totally fine and seemingly normal people that are insane behind close doors.

 

While most of us love all love any family member close to us, its very possible we have all pushed a little kid out of the way to grab a Lego deal LOL.

[Pirate]

I don't think they're doing this because they necessarily think anyone would actually be abused because parents aren't paying attention to their kids (that would be incredibly difficult in a setting like this), they're doing it because they don't want dirty old pedophiles sitting around leering at all the kids. For all we know, that's exactly what happened and why they instituted the rule. Go anywhere with lots of kids. Disney World, amusement parks, museums, malls -- if you actually look, you'll always see these guys. They're out of place, they have no reason to be there, and they're just watching.... It's creep out city.

I'm not concerned in the least that my kids would be abused by a pedophile here if there were no rule. But I sure appreciate them kicking out the creepy old men who have no business being there, just siting around getting off watching and possibly interacting with all the kids. This place really is for kids. There's no reason for an adult to go there, even one crazy into Lego.

And for what it's worth, if you don't have kids, I don't think you're even remotely qualified to have an opinion on this matter. :)

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

Actually, yes, but that's a separate matter entirely. I've never been able to peel myself away from Law and Order. I think it's genetic. My father and I both do it. If I pass by the TV and it's on, I'll kind of keep looking, then stand there, then migrate to a couch end, then before you know it I've sat through a few episodes. So much time lost.

 

I'm watching it right now. Lol. I am the same way - just entranced. And I think you have something there - My dad is the same exact way.

 

God it may be the greatest "watch when you are bored show" of all time.

 

Jack McCoy is like my Chuck Norris.

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

And for what it's worth, if you don't have kids, I don't think you're even remotely qualified to have an opinion on this matter.

 

I think thats just a bit short sited. Some of us have people in our lives about we care the same way about. I am afraid for my wife every time she leaves the house. I make her call me. I don't like her to go places without me.

 

I don't think when you have children you get some shot of infinite children knowledge and see the world in a whole new light. Some people definitely do - and you sound like one of them - but that doesn't mean for everyone of you there aren't 50 people with children that are complete morons and should never have them.

 

All I am saying is I don't think it requires children to have a valid opinion on the subject.

[Diabolos80]

Yes it does. Kids aren't wives. Kids are feral, irrational, fearless beasts. They WILL find something more interesting than their mother or father, all the time, whether it be a toy in the next aisle or a dark corner at LegoLand. It's too much. They're f*cking crazy, dude, for real. You can't keep up 100% of the time. You can't, so you must control the environment.

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

Yes it does. Kids aren't wives. Kids are feral, irrational, fearless beasts. They WILL find something more interesting than their mother or father, all the time, whether it be a toy in the next aisle or a dark corner at LegoLand. It's too much. They're f*cking crazy, dude, for real. You can't keep up 100% of the time. You can't, so you must control the environment.

 

I've kept children for extended periods of time - I understand. 

 

Actually I have a dog that is way worse than any child I have ever lived with or kept. Lol.

 

Look at it this way - Lets say on your 16th birthday your parents bought you a car. You have no license. But you have a car. So are you qualified to speak on driving it? More than a person who doesn't own a car?

 

Similarly (and I mean that very vaguely), just because you have a child doesn't mean others without them are irrelevant. There are plenty of irresponsible parents who have had children, but haven't put in the effort to raise them a single day in their life.

 

I believe your experience better qualifies you to speak on a matter - but it doesn't necessarily exclude the opinion of someone who doesn't have children.

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

To give another example - My wife's mother has had three children... and still has no idea how to properly raise one.

[Diabolos80]

I've kept children for extended periods of time - I understand. 

 

Actually I have a dog that is way worse than any child I have ever lived with or kept. Lol.

 

Look at it this way - Lets say on your 16th birthday your parents bought you a car. You have no license. But you have a car. So are you qualified to speak on driving it? More than a person who doesn't own a car?

 

Similarly (and I mean that very vaguely), just because you have a child doesn't mean others without them are irrelevant. There are plenty of irresponsible parents who have had children, but haven't put in the effort to raise them a single day in their life.

 

I believe your experience better qualifies you to speak on a matter - but it doesn't necessarily exclude the opinion of someone who doesn't have children.

You're two degrees off in opposite directions. First, bad parents=poor knowledge does not equal childless people=rich knowledge. Second, if a bad parent voices an opinion on pedophiles, the room stinks up. To summarize: if you have children, you are obligated to appreciate LegoLand's policy.

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

You're two degrees off in opposite directions. First, bad parents=poor knowledge does not equal childless people=rich knowledge. Second, if a bad parent voices an opinion on pedophiles, the room stinks up. To summarize: if you have children, you are obligated to appreciate LegoLand's policy.

 

Thats not what I said though. I am just saying bad parents knowledge is not better than childless people's knowledge.

 

And your second thing assumes LegoLand's policy was created for that reason, when most likely it was created from a Lawsuit of some type.

 

I'm just respectfully disagreeing completely. But doing and experiencing something doesn't make other people's views irrelevant. Less value, maybe. Less bound with fact, possibly. But not irrelevant as you indicated.

 

I own a house. I have friends who don't and know more about care for a house.

 

While you are most likely a great parent - things like that make you sound like someone who immediately thinks they are this wise old being just because they have had a child. Other's opinions should be judged on merit and fact and example. There is a guy at work who consistently refer's to me as son and talks down to me - He is 1 year older, has one less degree, does not own a house and has been married for a shorter amount of time. But he has had children and has sighted that as why he believes hes superior (I asked him why he calls me son and talks to me in that manner. In a related note - he is smarter than me so I let it go )

 

Point being - I don't think anyone's thoughts on this is irrelevant because they don't have a child.

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

But either way - this thread has probably outlived its worth anyway.

 

Have a good night everyone!

[spener90]

I see both sides of this argument.  First, I am a 23 year old guy.

 

1.  Our society has a continuous habit of deciding that more control creates safety, when in reality it is more likely to create a false sense of safety.  75% of abducted children are by a family member. I could go into detail about it, but I will simply attach a link instead.  It will save a lot of arguing.

 

http://kidshealth.org/parent/firstaid_safe/outdoor/abductions.html#

 

2.  I believe that they are trying to create an environment more then anything else.  If you have a bunch of adults there (like some of us), wouldn't it take away from the "kid friendly" nature of the event?

 

My personal opinion is that this rule is ineffective.  The odds of being stolen in that type of environment are slim, it would most likely happen at your local McDonalds, or even in your front yard.  I know I'm not a parent, so I know I am about to get crucified for saying this.  We currently live in a world where an entire generation of children has grown up under the wings of paranoid, over-protective, hawks, who teach them to fear the world.  This paranoia is propelling childhood further into adulthood.

[Diabolos80]

I wasn't trying to be wise, you know, I was trying to be a smartass. And the problem we're having is that people with no children see this issue from the parents' point of view, not the child's. Good parent, bad parent, dormant child, wild child, it's everyone's job to protect kids, it's society's responsibility. Because kids are dumb. And a lot of parents are, too.

[spener90]

I wasn't trying to be wise, you know, I was trying to be a smartass. And the problem we're having is that people with no children see this issue from the parents' point of view, not the child's. Good parent, bad parent, dormant child, wild child, it's everyone's job to protect kids, it's society's responsibility. Because kids are dumb. And a lot of parents are, too.

I think the issue is, a lot of parents are still kids...

[tonysbricks]

Jack McCoy is like my Chuck Norris.

One of my cat's middle names is "Jack Bauer McCoy". I wish I was making this up, and no I didn't name him.

[Quacs]

You can say that again. Have you seen MOCs by Toronto LUG/Eurobricks member "rook"? They are amazing. One of his creations got frontpaged on EB: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=83139

 

Beautiful work, I would rather go to a ToroLUG showcase and support MOCers than the LDC, who aren't the most supportive for AFOLs.

B- I had a chance to see that in person at Brickworld in Chicago, and that picture doesn't do the model justice. It's just awesome in real life, and enormous.

If anyone has a chance to attend Brickfete, DO it, assuming it's similar to Brickworld. You will not be disappointed.

[TheOrcKing]

Sorry. Until you have a child you won't understand the word "over-protective". There are very few measures that I find too extreme when it comes to protecting my daughter. You can lose them in a second in some situations. I have a small heart attack and adrenaline spike when I can't see my little one for more than 3 seconds when I'm out in a store. It's worse because my daughter seems to enjoy freaking me out and has all but mastered the art of hanging in my blind spot, and shifting behind me to avoid my eyes.

To qoute my mother, "Paranoia is underrated." I'm glad she was 'over protective' with me.

I had not read this article before but had known about the rule of "No adults unless accompanied by a child" or however it reads specifically. Being a grown up, I may not like it on its own but their is a reason behind it no matter how anyone wishes to see it. Besides, there is an "Adults Only" day far as I recall so there is a way he could have visited the theme park anyway.