Questions about box damage and tape seals

[jaylay]

I don't know the answer, but its definitely something I worry about.

Also, I'm curious to know if the veteran sellers on this site have had problems with selling new sets that turned out to be missing pieces. Is this something that happens frequently, rarely, almost never?

it probably happens alot thus lego has its free replacement parts ... but the only drawback is that we investors tend to hold our sets way too long before selling, that when the buyer finds out something was missing due to factory error, the pieces are no longer available from lego.

[Studebricker]

Think about a scenario where you sell a set as "MISB" that you bought (and stored away) as "new" for example from amazon some years ago. As soon as the buyer gets the package he complains that inside the (supposed to be) MISB set bags or non-bagged parts are missing or that bags were already opened (and the amount of replacement parts would exceed the "normal" amount TLG would provide via customer service OR the set parts are no longer available)?

 

The problem for you as a seller: If it is a set like 10214 Tower Bridge which is "sealed" by only two adhesive strips on each side - those can easily be opened and re-sealed without leaving any trace or evidence.

 

1) How do YOU prove now that the set was perfect when you sold it?

 

2) How can you KNOW it was perfect when you sold it, since it could really have been an opened-and-returned one when you received it from amazon?

 

3) How can you ever be sure that such a "not really sealed" set (with only strips) has really never been opened and is complete if you do not open it yourself and check if all parts are inside to have evidence for yourself - resulting in the set being not being MISB any more?

 

Thanks for your thoughts on this!

 

Well it's never happened to me in, uhhhhh, 11 years, so don't really worry about it...

 

What I DO "worry" about is my packages getting shipped safely.  I have had some packages arrive at my house damaged and had to return or have replaced.  That is more likely a problem scenario for a seller and/or buyer...

[Darth_Raichu]

X-ray vision

Even perfectly sealed sets bought from S@H can have missing parts (this is known to cause some people to snap). So unless you have some kind of xray machine, there is no way to know for sure.

[Quacs]

it probably happens alot thus lego has its free replacement parts ... but the only drawback is that we investors tend to hold our sets way too long before selling, that when the buyer finds out something was missing due to factory error, the pieces are no longer available from lego.

 

You're really talking about two separate issues: replacement pieces aren't an issue for a seller if all of the bags/instructions were sealed in the original set (box condition is a separate issue altogether). 

 

The real issue is if one of your buyers cracks open a "sealed" box and sees open bags that clearly indicate tampering.  This is a risk that every seller must account for in their Lego selling business, but hasn't been a major issue in the past.

[Frank Brickowski]

My question kind of relates to the problem of "what's inside the box" (if you cannot look inside) generally. Not necessarily missing parts from the LEGO production itself. But problems caused by (deliberate) manipulation.

 

How can you even tell there is Lego inside an "MISB" set if you have never seen the contents with your own eyes? I know, this might all be rather unlikely, but I am concerned about KNOWING when selling sets for several hundreds of dollars instead of just believing in MISB and hoping there will never be a buyer who wants to **** with you seriously (causing you monetary or ebay-credibility-related trouble).

[Quacs]

My question kind of relates to the problem of "what's inside the box" (if you cannot look inside) generally. Not necessarily missing parts from the LEGO production itself. But problems caused by (deliberate) manipulation.

 

How can you even tell there is Lego inside an "MISB" set if you have never seen the contents with your own eyes? I know, this might all be rather unlikely, but I am concerned about KNOWING when selling sets for several hundreds of dollars instead of just believing in MISB and hoping there will never be a buyer who wants to **** with you seriously (causing you monetary or ebay-credibility-related trouble).

 

I know it's not foolproof, but if you shake the set and it has that familiar Lego sound, it's a pretty good indication there's Lego bricks inside.  Also, you can tell if the bricks are loose (with no bags) since the pieces would be moving all over the place instead of being "stuck" in the bags.

 

If someone were to remove the original contents (getting the seals off themselves *without* any modification marks or damage isn't that easy), bag up some old random Lego bricks, and then sell them on the open market, they are going through a lot of trouble for a scam that would likely only work a few times before being caught.  Remember the vast majority of secondary market buyers buy sets to build, not to invest, so if this type of scam was occurring frequently, it would come to light quickly. 

 

Can it happen?  I suppose.  Is it likely?  I personally don't think so.  There are easier ways to scam people if a seller's goal is to make fast money.

[akohns]

Most people who are looking to steal parts from sealed boxes don't take the time to open them carefully enough for it to look untampered. I've never had a buyer complain about missing pieces from a sealed set I sold.

[Diabolos80]

Quacs answered the question. The majority of secondary market buyers buy to build. So, cut that tape, count the bags, and sell it as new in sealed bags. You might miss out on like 3% of market value, but you and your customer will know what's being traded. Verified Contents > MISB.

[Studebricker]

Most people who are looking to steal parts from sealed boxes don't take the time to open them carefully enough for it to look untampered. I've never had a buyer complain about missing pieces from a sealed set I sold.

 

exactly...

[Darth_Raichu]

Quacs answered the question. The majority of secondary market buyers buy to build. So, cut that tape, count the bags, and sell it as new in sealed bags. You might miss out on like 3% of market value, but you and your customer will know what's being traded. Verified Contents > MISB.

And the anti Stephen_Rockefeller award goes to....

[exciter1]

I received my first ever Neutral feedback today on EBay.  You just never know.  They said they had to pay additional postage upon delivery, but they never even contacted me before leaving feedback.  I could have refunded the difference to them.  It was even another reseller, who I'm sure wouldn't like to receive Neutral feedback for the same circumstance.  Oh well...

[Ed Mack]

This topic has been talked about before and I feel that there will come a time(in the very near future) where MISB only will matter in case of smaller completely sealed boxes like Battle Packs.  With the rise in popularity of LEGO sets and their known high values, there will be criminals and con men/women looking to skim parts and minifigures out of the easily opened larger sets.  Until LEGO changes box styles and security, a simple hair dryer can remove a seal.

 

I am coining these phrases now...

 

VIB...Verified In Box    VIBN...Verified In Box(NEW)    VIBU....Verified In Box(USED)

 

Unfortunately, this is where the world is heading.  Everything has to be verified.  Soon, the most important information will be how many sealed bags a set has so it can be checked before and after a sale.

[LowestFormOfWit]

This is where your digital scale is your friend. Bricklink and Brickset (I think) have the approximate weights of each set. Weigh the sets you have doubts about and see if there is a large enough variance.

That or get in cozy with a local TSA and have them scan the contents for you. =P

[Grolim]

Just to add one point that hasn't been put forward.  As a buyer, knowing a set hasn't been tampered with is a matter of trust and your only measure of that is the seller's feedback rating and comments.  If you find pieces missing in a set and the seller has sold hundreds or thousands of items with great feedback your more than likely just going to put it down as a production error rather than a tampering situation.

 

Flipside, as the seller you need to leverage your good reputation if a situation arises.

[RogerWilco]

I recently received a Helm's Deep that was pretty bashed up. No tears, but the box has deep creases/distortion in several areas and a corner is pretty smashed up. One of the ends was open where the tape had come off (I think a combination of heat during transfer plus someone apparently practicing kicking field goals with my package).

 

I contacted K-Mart and they offered a 10% refund with the option of returning later if I chose to do so. They no longer have it in stock, so I can't get a replacement.

 

From reading here it sounds like mint boxes aren't as important as I originally thought. Considering I got an extra 10 bucks off, is it worth it to keep it and sell down the road? Would it be better to just forego the box altogether if I do sell it?

[Darth Lego]

Regarding boxes and the seals. I noticed in a new review for the Dooku/Yoda set, that the box was using the little pop tabs. Do you think Lego has noticed their issues with the seals or is this a rare case? Even the smaller boxes right now are using the seals, so I was surprised to see that the box was using the pull tab type where you push in the 2 holes and pull the end open. While I like being able to cut the seals and flatten my boxes for the future, I like the idea of only being able to get into the box by messing it up, negating the ability to take out the figures and seal it back up.

That was the case with a 79106 Cavalry Builder Set I bought a week ago. I picked up the set and I was concerned when I saw it didn't have any seals. It had one pull tab instead. I have to say I like the pull tabs better than the seals. Hopefully the pull tabs will become more mainstream and discourage people from taking out pieces/minifigures.

[Jeff Mack]

Now that I posted my damaged Technic Crawler box, I am wondering if any of you out there who picked up a SDCC Hobbit set had seals that were already broken.  Maybe this has been mentioned already somewhere, but the chances of me getting opened boxes from different sellers on ebay is probably slim to none.  Ed had opened ones as well.  Are there others out there like this or were they all like this?

 

[Ed Mack]

I can confirm this.

[Etan]

You guys were at comic con?

[Bitsathis]

i have both the Hobbit bag end and the Jek-14 and one of the seals on each set has split like this.  The other seal is fine.  Assuming this happened in transit back to UK. 

[Pirate]

I have a jek set with one broken seal. They're very delicate and made to split that way, and the way the boxes are made it makes it likely that will happen. Last years tins have seals with the same perf pattern that makes breakage likely also...

[toni8284]

Hi,

 

recently I sell a set to a BL buyer. He is complaining that one of the sealed tape had another sealed tape on top of it. He is saying the bottom tape is like cutted, then the new tape is covering the cutted tape.

 

Does this happening to anyone?

 

the new sealed tape that is on top the cutted tape is still from LEGO.

 

Will LEGO got it back and check for all parts and resealed it instead of putting them in a new box?

 

[Diabolos80]

It happens. Maybe the set had to be rechecked before it left the distribution center. Maybe because it came up wrong on the weight scale. Or maybe it was an open box return through LEGO Shop at Home or the store.

I think as long as it is ultimately sealed by official Lego tape, it's legit. This is a company that now "destroys" damaged or opened boxes. The tape is like a guarantee. I don't know what to tell your customer, though.

[Guest ph4tb0i]

It does happen. I remember seeing tons of MF vampyre castles with the double tape back a couple of months ago. 

[toni8284]

But what is the reason of it?

Because the buyer open a dispute on PayPal saying product is not as described.

So if I can prove that this is done by lego, that will be great