The Falcon and the Winter Soldier Discussion * Spoilers *

[KvHulk]

Just binged the first 5 episodes. The Show is fine. I can do without the social justice bullshit though. It's everywhere. I'm so sick of it. White people are monsters. We get it.

Edited April 19, 2021 by KvHulk

[$20 on joe vs dan]

Last episode was really meh for me...when streaming show tries too hard to be like movies...too many slow mo of a nothing scene...how many times and for how long do we need to see a couple of photographs? Why so many scenes of actors JUST WALKING? The "bro chemistry" shoved down our throats.

and as mentioned before the social commentary being the "big bad"...isn't all that interesting when we have it in real life.

 

Next episode...how gun violence and the lives it impacts 🙄 

[Lego Lass]

On 4/19/2021 at 9:04 AM, KvHulk said:

Just binged the first 5 episodes. The Show is fine. I can do without the social justice bullshit though.

Probably want to avoid the finale then…definitely a little too woke for me. There are some pretty kick-ass action sequences, though. And Sharon Carter, what the hell?!

[Bartat]

11 hours ago, Lego Lass said:

Probably want to avoid the finale then…definitely a little too woke for me. There are some pretty kick-ass action sequences, though. And Sharon Carter, what the hell?!

But is it Sharon Carter...? Secret Wars?

[Bold-Arrow]

Talk about a letdown of an episode . What happened to just watching for the entertainment value instead of having all this SJW crap shoved down my esophagus all the way to my anus 

[Lego Lass]

15 minutes ago, Bold-Arrow said:

Talk about a letdown of an episode . What happened to just watching for the entertainment value instead of having all this SJW crap shoved down my esophagus all the way to my anus 

 

[$20 on joe vs dan]

2 hours ago, Lego Lass said:

 

gotta wonder if THIS is what people want nowadays...to have their sci-fi shows laced w/ the social headlines of last year.

Not only is news becoming more focused on entertainment...our entertainment is becoming more focused on news...the world is up-side-down

[exciter1]

7 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

gotta wonder if THIS is what people want nowadays...to have their sci-fi shows laced w/ the social headlines of last year.

Not only is news becoming more focused on entertainment...our entertainment is becoming more focused on news...the world is up-side-down

This is one of the worst selling Marvel comic arcs in their production history, but Disney stuck with the formula pretty much beat for beat.  Sales don't lie, and it had nothing to do with Falcon being Cap.

[Bold-Arrow]

10 hours ago, exciter1 said:

This is one of the worst selling Marvel comic arcs in their production history, but Disney stuck with the formula pretty much beat for beat.  Sales don't lie, and it had nothing to do with Falcon being Cap.

I guess every terrorist organization can now be labeled as just being misunderstood. Killing and kidnapping scores of people is just an afterthought , cause deep down terrorists have feeling too . Oh wait , I should stop calling them that . 

[Alpinemaps]

Not to get political on this topic, but since the show did...

I have to wonder.  Was the "One People, One Government" movement supposed to be an indictment of the 'Globalist Movement' (as in Globalist vs Nationalist), or was it an indictment of the perception Nationalists have on the Globalist movement?

I felt like Batric was a waste - he could have been another low-level villain that could have stayed a thorn in Sam's side.  Although, I guess I don't remember Sam having anything to do with stopping him.  So I didn't see the connection there.

I have always liked Sam, and continue to like him and his character's evolution in the MCU.  The Captain America corner of the comic book Marvel Universe was always may favorite of the big three (Thor, Cap, Iron Man).  Probably why I rank the Cap part of the franchise highest IMO.

I liked Isaiah's story, and the tie-in to real-life events.  I really enjoyed the fleshing out of "Uncle Sam" and his relationship with Sarah.  I was hoping we'd see Bucky have some more interaction with her.

I can't comment on the struggles of a black man, and how this series represented that.  I would think it was authentic, given the world we live in today, and the potential for harsh criticism is if wasn't authentic.  

I'm ready for where this is taking the MCU next.  I feel like this side of the MCU is going for a more ground-level approach.  This is setting up the Thunderbolts really well.  Zemo, Val, US Agent.  I *loved* John Walker, and felt he was portrayed accurate to the comics, and his evolution was on point.  He is flawed, and he is patriotic, to a fault.  US Agent is a good role for this character.

Just sad that we've got to wait until June now for Loki.

[exciter1]

...and for those who may not realize it, here are Wyatt Russel’s parents, and sister.

 

[Alpinemaps]

Well, color me clueless. I had no idea but it makes total sense.

[MrToes16]

21 hours ago, exciter1 said:

...and for those who may not realize it, here are Wyatt Russel’s parents, and sister.

 

 

So if US Agent is Ego's son...he's part celestial?

[$20 on joe vs dan]

Falcon and Winter Soldier confirmed to me that the streaming shows are inconsequential to the greater MCU.

They promise game changing plots but other than some minor character development; all the "pieces are put back at the end" like a practice game of chess.

  

[Alpinemaps]

1 hour ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

Falcon and Winter Soldier confirmed to me that the streaming shows are inconsequential to the greater MCU.

They promise game changing plots but other than some minor character development; all the "pieces are put back at the end" like a practice game of chess.

  

I'm going to disagree:

1. White Vision
2. Monica Rambeau
3. Secret Invasion tie-in (Skrulls still on Earth)
4. Vision is dead dead
5. Bohner?
6. Wanda's powers grow
7. "Show don't tell" storytelling regarding Sam becoming Cap
8. Zemo character development
9. US Agent
10. The Contessa (Val)
11. Set up for Iron Wars (Sharon)
12. Set up for Thunderbolts (Contessa, Zemo, US Agent)

We haven't had a single movie come out since either of these two TV shows, so we don't really know whether they will have an affect on the greater MCU, but unlike Kathleen Kennedy, I trust in Kevin Feige to have a plan, and for this to have an affect.  I think they've seen that this stuff is big enough (look at the numbers these two series did), to show that they can continue these threads in movies, and no one will miss a beat.

[$20 on joe vs dan]

12 minutes ago, Alpinemaps said:

I'm going to disagree:

1. White Vision
2. Monica Rambeau
3. Secret Invasion tie-in (Skrulls still on Earth)
4. Vision is dead dead
5. Bohner?
6. Wanda's powers grow
7. "Show don't tell" storytelling regarding Sam becoming Cap
8. Zemo character development
9. US Agent
10. The Contessa (Val)
11. Set up for Iron Wars (Sharon)
12. Set up for Thunderbolts (Contessa, Zemo, US Agent)

We haven't had a single movie come out since either of these two TV shows, so we don't really know whether they will have an affect on the greater MCU, but unlike Kathleen Kennedy, I trust in Kevin Feige to have a plan, and for this to have an affect.  I think they've seen that this stuff is big enough (look at the numbers these two series did), to show that they can continue these threads in movies, and no one will miss a beat.

There's potential and tidbits thrown in, but almost half your list are extras thrown into the shows (credit scenes) with no plot value other than to be a preview for another show (which may or may not happen).

I guess I had higher expectations.  I realize knowing the comics background helps put a lot of this into context...but pretty much the entire list may not actually happen and let's face it. 1.5 to 2 years from now no one is gonna hold Marvel accountable if they go another direction.

Basically the MCU stakes don't seem to be very high for these streaming show...I like them 4 sure and they are the few "must see" TV on a weekly basis...but based on the last two, I will no longer be expecting anything really big to happen. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by $20 on joe vs dan

[waydog]

35 minutes ago, Alpinemaps said:

I'm going to disagree:

1. White Vision
2. Monica Rambeau
3. Secret Invasion tie-in (Skrulls still on Earth)
4. Vision is dead dead
5. Bohner?
6. Wanda's powers grow
7. "Show don't tell" storytelling regarding Sam becoming Cap
8. Zemo character development
9. US Agent
10. The Contessa (Val)
11. Set up for Iron Wars (Sharon)
12. Set up for Thunderbolts (Contessa, Zemo, US Agent)

We haven't had a single movie come out since either of these two TV shows, so we don't really know whether they will have an affect on the greater MCU, but unlike Kathleen Kennedy, I trust in Kevin Feige to have a plan, and for this to have an affect.  I think they've seen that this stuff is big enough (look at the numbers these two series did), to show that they can continue these threads in movies, and no one will miss a beat.

I have never agreed more with a post in brickpicker history, lol.  Falcon and wandavision opened up so much and were so well done.

Buying every john walker/us agent marvel legend and funko pop that comes out too.  Loved how they took his character and being the son of Lt Gabriel Cash didnt hurt either.

And Loki is gonna bring it.  It's gonna be huge, like mandalorian huge.  That last trailer for Loki looked so damn good.

[CosmicSpeed]

13. White Wolf

14. Continued badassness of the Dora Milaje

15. re-Casting Julia Louis-Dreyfus as Valentina Allegra de Fontaine who is also in Black Widow (after some searching) for literally about 5 or so lines over 2 episodes.

16. LOKI (as Waydog states)

I don't know much about MCU backstory compared to comic storylines, but even I can see how all of these could potentially relate to the next phase.

Especially looking forward to LOKI, Really the first "baddie" centric narrative we will be seeing.

Edited April 27, 2021 by CosmicSpeed

[exracer327]

36 minutes ago, CosmicSpeed said:

13. White Wolf

14. Continued badassness of the Dora Milaje

15. re-Casting Julia Louis-Dreyfus as Valentina Allegra de Fontaine who is also in Black Widow (after some searching) for literally about 5 or so lines over 2 episodes.

16. LOKI (as Waydog states)

I don't know much about MCU backstory compared to comic storylines, but even I can see how all of these could potentially relate to the next phase.

Especially looking forward to LOKI, Really the first "baddie" centric narrative we will be seeing.

Agreed. 

Just bummed they pushed back Loki to June.  Maybe it's been this way for a while but I could have sworn Loki was launching mid-May.

[Alpinemaps]

1 hour ago, Alpinemaps said:

I'm going to disagree:

1. White Vision
2. Monica Rambeau
3. Secret Invasion tie-in (Skrulls still on Earth)
4. Vision is dead dead
5. Bohner?
6. Wanda's powers grow
7. "Show don't tell" storytelling regarding Sam becoming Cap
8. Zemo character development
9. US Agent
10. The Contessa (Val)
11. Set up for Iron Wars (Sharon)
12. Set up for Thunderbolts (Contessa, Zemo, US Agent)

We haven't had a single movie come out since either of these two TV shows, so we don't really know whether they will have an affect on the greater MCU, but unlike Kathleen Kennedy, I trust in Kevin Feige to have a plan, and for this to have an affect.  I think they've seen that this stuff is big enough (look at the numbers these two series did), to show that they can continue these threads in movies, and no one will miss a beat.

 

1 hour ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

There's potential and tidbits thrown in, but almost half your list are extras thrown into the shows (credit scenes) with no plot value other than to be a preview for another show (which may or may not happen).

I guess I had higher expectations.  I realize knowing the comics background helps put a lot of this into context...but pretty much the entire list may not actually happen and let's face it. 1.5 to 2 years from now no one is gonna hold Marvel accountable if they go another direction.

Basically the MCU stakes don't seem to be very high for these streaming show...I like them 4 sure and they are the few "must see" TV on a weekly basis...but based on the last two, I will no longer be expecting anything really big to happen. 

The only thing on my list (IMO) that is limited to a credit scene is The Skrulls/Secret Invasion tie-in, as it relates to WandaVision.  Which on reflection, I shouldn't have even brought up, since we knew the Skrulls were still on Earth after Spider-Man: Far From Home.

And you're right - maybe because I have a background in the comics (a lot of the plot beats from the MCU come from my wheelhouse of comic reading in the 80s and 90s) - I see/know the potential of where these stories might be headed, to know that they aren't just a throw away.

We know that Armor Wars and Secret Invasion are happening.  John Walker is clearly not going away (they would have locked him up, not let him go).  Yes, there's potential there between US Agent, Val, and Zemo.  And we don't know what the plan is, but everything is pointing in a direction for the Thunderbolts to happen.  Those are definitely threads that are being left open.  Ralph Bohner might be a red herring.  But with a film call "The Multiverse of Madness", and Scarlet Witch involved, and Spider-Man having multiverse shenanigans as well, there's a real possibility there that he isn't a red herring.

I don't know if you remember, but Marvel came under criticism years ago, with The Mandarin and the Ten Rings (Iron Man 1 and 3).  They even made a short to sort of answer the question about Ben Kingsley's character.  And where are we know?  Months away from a movie with the "real" Mandarin as the antagonist, and his organization - the organization that is, to a degree, responsible for the creation of the Avengers!

I understand the skepticism, especially if you were a fan of the Netflix series, or Agents of Shield.  Those didn't pay out (unless you believe the rumors that Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Punisher, and Kingpin are coming over).

57 minutes ago, CosmicSpeed said:

13. White Wolf

14. Continued badassness of the Dora Milaje

15. re-Casting Julia Louis-Dreyfus as Valentina Allegra de Fontaine who is also in Black Widow (after some searching) for literally about 5 or so lines over 2 episodes.

16. LOKI (as Waydog states)

I don't know much about MCU backstory compared to comic storylines, but even I can see how all of these could potentially relate to the next phase.

Especially looking forward to LOKI, Really the first "baddie" centric narrative we will be seeing.

Thank for posting those, because I completely missed them, and they are 100% on target.  Bucky's journey alone was incredible to watch.

[$20 on joe vs dan]

2 hours ago, Alpinemaps said:

 

The only thing on my list (IMO) that is limited to a credit scene is The Skrulls/Secret Invasion tie-in, as it relates to WandaVision.  Which on reflection, I shouldn't have even brought up, since we knew the Skrulls were still on Earth after Spider-Man: Far From Home.

 

#3, 10, 11, 12 are scenes that doesn't have an impact on the shows (ie take them out and no change to plot or show outcome)...I am excited to see glimpses of future shows/movies...but given the 2 year span we're talking about waiting in some cases...tired of feeling teased.

I don't intend to argue because this is all about be being relatively disappointed with Wandavision ending and generally disappointed in the Falcon... series overall.

I wanted to believe there would be more at stake but each episode seem to create its own conflict and then resolve them and not really a part of the greater MCU.  Maybe my disappointment is because I am such a fan of Marvel..recently re-watched all the movies in the month.

[Alpinemaps]

21 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

#3, 10, 11, 12 are scenes that doesn't have an impact on the shows (ie take them out and no change to plot or show outcome)...I am excited to see glimpses of future shows/movies...but given the 2 year span we're talking about waiting in some cases...tired of feeling teased.

I don't intend to argue because this is all about be being relatively disappointed with Wandavision ending and generally disappointed in the Falcon... series overall.

I wanted to believe there would be more at stake but each episode seem to create its own conflict and then resolve them and not really a part of the greater MCU.  Maybe my disappointment is because I am such a fan of Marvel..recently re-watched all the movies in the month.

Nope, not arguing, just having a fun fan debate.  

Hey, not everything is for everyone.  While I watched WandaVision out of the gate, I didn't watch TFatWS until the first 4 episodes dropped.

I have a feeling that you'd be happy to be wrong, but are leery that you're not.

[$20 on joe vs dan]

22 minutes ago, Alpinemaps said:

Nope, not arguing, just having a fun fan debate.  

Hey, not everything is for everyone.  While I watched WandaVision out of the gate, I didn't watch TFatWS until the first 4 episodes dropped.

I have a feeling that you'd be happy to be wrong, but are leery that you're not.

4 sure i love Marvel...sci fi in general...these movies are great escapes..and yes, I am a fan of Agents of Shield...Marvel does a great job of character development within the wackiness of sci-fi...the best ones do.

can't say I am a fan of the underlying agendas that both Wandavision and Falcon pushes.  Grief is a relatively innocuous "theme" but Marvel bringing together 4 black writers for Falcon seems a bit too contrived.  Political or social agendas will always have some part in any pop-culture show but the art is in the subtleties, IMO   

[spener90]

I thought Wandavision was actually excellent, the first two episodes were just really unique and a great change of pace.

TFATWS was overall good, but the pacing was inconsistent. I think the real problem with the woke moments, for myself at least, was that they really hurt the flow of a scene (especially seen in the last episode). If they could more naturally fit these moments into the story, great, but they have so far been just random cuts away from the actual plot and come off as unnecessary. I also really dislike night action sequences.