Ed Mack Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 42 minutes ago, jeff_14 said: But this is the point, actions like this will lead to a zero sum game where we retaliate by withholding nurses or something. Indeed, Canada supplies the materials to 3M for those masks so how will your “greater need” be met when we say no? This is the same thinking that made the Depression last as long as it did. Everyone closed their trade borders to each other and everyone was worse off than if they hadn’t have done that. Classic prisoner’s dilemma. Like the 2 boats scene in the Dark Knight - Trump has just put his finger over the button to blow the other boat. This is why who’s in charge matters. Obama would never have done such a thing. I think we have beaten up this point already about Trump. He is a knucklehead at times for sure. It's a lose-lose for him. Send the masks elsewhere and people complain. Keep them, people complain. This really has nothing to do with Canada-US relations. The US has the greater need at this time. Obama was smooth for sure, but he made many mistakes as well. He just did it with a cool style and the media loved him. Say what you will about Trump, but he nailed it about China. We must move manufacturing back to North America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_14 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, Ed Mack said: I think we have beaten up this point already about Trump. He is a knucklehead at times for sure. It's a lose-lose for him. Send the masks elsewhere and people complain. Keep them, people complain. This really has nothing to do with Canada-US relations. The US has the greater need at this time. Obama was smooth for sure, but he made many mistakes as well. He just did it with a cool style and the media loved him. Say what you will about Trump, but he nailed it about China. We must move manufacturing back to North America. Agree on that. When this is all settled there’s going to be a hard reckoning with a lot of what we all do with China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Mack Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 1 hour ago, asharerin said: Just a reminder since I know quite a few on these boards resell either full time or part time. Please make sure to read and apply for any benefits you think you may qualify under the new CARES Act. There is a lot of funding available and a lot of it is forgivable. There are also quite a few different programs and applying for some may preclude you from applying for others so take your time and figure what is going to be the best outcome for your situation. Also we know that the $600 per week unemployment bonus under PUA is going to be extended to at least 6 months from 4 but keep in mind it will also likely get extended until at least through the end of 2020 - this specifically may sway a decision for alot of us to either close up operations to apply for PUA or keep going and get the free $10k advance through EIDL. Also keep in mind the possibility of much stricter govt orders regarding lockdowns and the possibility of no more ebay, and Amazon shutting down 3P selling altogether, for a period of time if the USA continues along the same trajectory. The simple fact is the USA is horribly exposed to this virus right now with inadequate testing and treatment supplies so there is the possibility of some really bad outcomes and some quite draconian govt orders that could really end business for alot of us overnight. There are some good options out there for government help. Let's hope they work... I honestly don't see stronger measures coming after April if numbers start to decrease as projected. Many of the major Democratic states will peak in April and start to drop according to "models". Trump will give the stay at home situation only so much time, especially if the death numbers come in below 240,000. There comes a point where the cure is worse than the disease for the majority of the country. We have to learn to live with this virus. People cannot collect unemployment forever and eventually, the people getting paid to sit/work at home will no longer get paid. I call it "trickle up" recession. Without the service/hospitality/entertainment industry in this country somewhat back to normal, white collar jobs are goners as well. The virus will not go away in 3 months or even 6 unless there is some miracle cure. Testing for antibodies will play a major role in bringing back portions of the economy in steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_14 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 18 minutes ago, Ed Mack said: There are some good options out there for government help. Let's hope they work... I honestly don't see stronger measures coming after April if numbers start to decrease as projected. Many of the major Democratic states will peak in April and start to drop according to "models". Trump will give the stay at home situation only so much time, especially if the death numbers come in below 240,000. There comes a point where the cure is worse than the disease for the majority of the country. We have to learn to live with this virus. People cannot collect unemployment forever and eventually, the people getting paid to sit/work at home will no longer get paid. I call it "trickle up" recession. Without the service/hospitality/entertainment industry in this country somewhat back to normal, white collar jobs are goners as well. The virus will not go away in 3 months or even 6 unless there is some miracle cure. Testing for antibodies will play a major role in bringing back portions of the economy in steps. The Ontario government released its model numbers yesterday and they are resulting in more lockdowns effective today given the stark projections of 3000 to 15,000 deaths over the next few months. We only have 67 deaths so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$20 on joe vs dan Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 4 hours ago, labfreak7 said: This got heavily political. Remember China’s culpability in this. They underreported the number of infections and deaths. Had the world known the severity of it, maybe the outcome would be different. THIS is just the spin to absolve the poor decisions Political leaders made early on...yes "Blame China because their information was bad; that's why we didn't act fast enough" Sorry but that excuse basically means we have incompetent Intelligence...or simply put...our leaders lack the common sense that a country like China probably isn't being 100% truthful...anyone who thinks China is at all culpable for the lack of preparedness...needs to look at themselve and seriously consider how much US propaganda they are consuming. These were the facts that were evident back in Late Jan/Early Feb: A novel virus originated in the WUhan Province of China, thousands infects, many deaths...more than likely this industrial hub has led to spread all over the globe with case popping up in other countries. That's enough info right there for proactive actions that would have helped saved lives today. ANyone focusing on "exactly how many thousands?" question really needs to get off the propaganda teet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$20 on joe vs dan Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 Let's talk recovery. The Shelter-in-place obviously sucks, but there are good things too (probably family togetherness will be the long-term positive as a whole); but in terms of practical long lasting changes; I'm sure there will be carry-over that permanently changes the into the new normal. I see employees now being catergorized based on "can work from home" status and it becoming a major game change in how employment is handled. Delivery service and its convenience will be the new normal for many households ONline Courses all that it relates to gets a huge Home Schooling...I think this is big. Many parents will learn what their kids know/are learning for the first time...I think many will be disappointed. My son just figured out on his own that he can use geometry to help in solving an arithmatic problem...and he formulated an algebraic equation to implement (totally on his own)...on Monday his class will have online lesson and he can go back to 2 digit addition again 🙄...yes he's in the 2nd grade....supposedly won't be taught multiplication until 3rd grade...he can now write out the entire multiplication table by memory up to 12. And I'm not bragging about how smart my kid is...I honestly believe his IQ is average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Mack Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 41 minutes ago, jeff_14 said: The Ontario government released its model numbers yesterday and they are resulting in more lockdowns effective today given the stark projections of 3000 to 15,000 deaths over the next few months. We only have 67 deaths so far. Lets's hope they overestimate their projections. I think governments like to bump up the numbers in order to scare people. It's amazing today at my business how many people are wearing masks of some sort. It's gotta help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Mack Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 1 minute ago, $20 on joe vs dan said: Let's talk recovery. The Shelter-in-place obviously sucks, but there are good things too (probably family togetherness will be the long-term positive as a whole); but in terms of practical long lasting changes; I'm sure there will be carry-over that permanently changes the into the new normal. I see employees now being catergorized based on "can work from home" status and it becoming a major game change in how employment is handled. Delivery service and its convenience will be the new normal for many households ONline Courses all that it relates to gets a huge Home Schooling...I think this is big. Many parents will learn what their kids know/are learning for the first time...I think many will be disappointed. My son just figured out on his own that he can use geometry to help in solving an arithmatic problem...and he formulated an algebraic equation to implement (totally on his own)...on Monday his class will have online lesson and he can go back to 2 digit addition again 🙄...yes he's in the 2nd grade....supposedly won't be taught multiplication until 3rd grade...he can now write out the entire multiplication table by memory up to 12. And I'm not bragging about how smart my kid is...I honestly believe his IQ is average. Home schooling is "not so good" as the president likes to say (in my opinion). While many of us are finding out that our teachers are subpar, kids need to be in school. They need to socialize and get out of the friggin' house. They need sports and activities. Too much drama at home right now. No offense to those who home school, but we must find a way to get kids back in school. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Schubert Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, Ed Mack said: Home schooling is "not so good" as the president likes to say (in my opinion). While many of us are finding out that our teachers are subpar, kids need to be in school. They need to socialize and get out of the friggin' house. They need sports and activities. Too much drama at home right now. No offense to those who home school, but we must find a way to get kids back in school. Ehhh... based on your anecdotal evidence. There is no industrialized schooling in our future. Putting a large number of like age peers in a room for eight hours with one adult is a very new human habit. And as far as I remember we didn’t have much trouble socializing in the thousands of years before the last 80. The most well spoken and creative thinking human beings I know in large part had a “nontraditional” In one way or another school experience. It does, however take more work and involvement on the parents part 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy_bricks Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 2 hours ago, lobo1969 said: Ha! Don't under estimate a Canadian's constant exposure to American news, TV, election cycles, sports, music, movies and culture in general. It's been their all our lives and we have a very good estimation of how Americans live and think whether we have visited there frequently or not. I can guarantee that I can pass my self off as an American anywhere and most of you will none be the wiser (I've done it constantly in the past). On the flip side American visitors to Canada tend to stick out just as plainly as any other foreign visitor. I can spot a Canadian right away with their beady eyes and flappy heads. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Schubert Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 And now for something that will totally blow your mind ... Jobless claims graph animation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Mack Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, House Schubert said: Ehhh... based on your anecdotal evidence. There is no industrialized schooling in our future. Putting a large number of like age peers in a room for eight hours with one adult is a very new human habit. And as far as I remember we didn’t have much trouble socializing in the thousands of years before the last 80. The most well spoken and creative thinking human beings I know in large part had a “nontraditional” In one way or another school experience. It does, however take more work and involvement on the parents part Sorry, I can't remember thousands of years ago. Must be my old age. As I said...in my opinion. There are all types of schools out there for sure. Some good and bad. Some with non-traditional methods and some with traditional. Point is, kids need to socialize beyond Mom and Dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asharerin Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Ed Mack said: There are some good options out there for government help. Let's hope they work... I honestly don't see stronger measures coming after April if numbers start to decrease as projected. Many of the major Democratic states will peak in April and start to drop according to "models". Trump will give the stay at home situation only so much time, especially if the death numbers come in below 240,000. There comes a point where the cure is worse than the disease for the majority of the country. We have to learn to live with this virus. People cannot collect unemployment forever and eventually, the people getting paid to sit/work at home will no longer get paid. I call it "trickle up" recession. Without the service/hospitality/entertainment industry in this country somewhat back to normal, white collar jobs are goners as well. The virus will not go away in 3 months or even 6 unless there is some miracle cure. Testing for antibodies will play a major role in bringing back portions of the economy in steps. I guarantee there will be much, much stronger measures. The best we can hope for is stepping up from a depression to a recession. Sorry to say but that is just reality. We won't ever be going back to "normal". Most service industry jobs in the USA will never come back. The virus just highlighted how exposed we were to an economy based on debt rather than production. The 2.2 trillion stimulus is just the beginning. Between the fed balance sheet and fiscal stimulus we are looking at 100 trillion. People can collect unemployment forever as long as the fed continues to print money, and they have publicly stated they are willing to do whatever it takes (they have no choice). If they cannot re-inflate asset prices it is over for the US dollar and fiat currency and we will have to reset. I also guarantee Trump will be spending like no tomorrow leading up to the election. People will vote for whoever is throwing the most amount of fiat at them. I give the Fed a 20% chance of re-inflating. The prognosis for a broke government attempting to bail out a broke population is not good. China is going to come out of this smelling like roses. Makes you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceFan9 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 45 minutes ago, Ed Mack said: No offense to those who home school, none taken. by the same measure, my homeschooled-before-everybody-did-it kids are not enjoying this either. All of their sports have been shut down. Two days a week, my kids typically socialized with other family's---one day at a church co-op where we ran weekly classes, the other in "the woods". Plus once a month, a field-trip to museums, or a community assistance service center, or the like. None of that is happening now. I guess my point is, a typically school week should be much different/better than what we are experiencing now, regardless of the previous schooling environment. I can imagine its incredible frustrating to be thrown into home learning on short notice though. You have my sympathies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Mack Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, asharerin said: I guarantee there will be much, much stronger measures. The best we can hope for is stepping up from a depression to a recession. Sorry to say but that is just reality. We won't ever be going back to "normal". Most service industry jobs in the USA will never come back. The virus just highlighted how exposed we were to an economy based on debt rather than production. The 2.2 trillion stimulus is just the beginning. Between the fed balance sheet and fiscal stimulus we are looking at 100 trillion. People can collect unemployment forever as long as the fed continues to print money, and they have publicly stated they are willing to do whatever it takes (they have no choice). If they cannot re-inflate asset prices it is over for the US dollar and fiat currency and we will have to reset. I also guarantee Trump will be spending like no tomorrow leading up to the election. People will vote for whoever is throwing the most amount of fiat at them. I give the Fed a 20% chance of re-inflating. The prognosis for a broke government attempting to bail out a broke population is not good. China is going to come out of this smelling like roses. Makes you think. I respectfully disagree. What's next? Martial law? That won't fly in the US. Not for this. Most "models" have this peaking within the next month or less. History has shown that even the worst pandemics last around three to four months regionally. Much of the recent data that the media focuses on are lagging indicators, so positive news comes late. You gotta have a little faith in the ingenuity of the human race. Sure, some things will change, but schools and businesses will adapt. Some might not come back, but other new companies will develop and prosper. Therapeutics and vaccines will be developed. Herd immunity will solve the rest. It will be rough for the next month or so, no doubt. My business is half of what it was. But I know people. I know they will not be able to sit at home for another three months. Are people scared? Sure. I am. I am wearing a full plastic face shield today at work. That is screwed up, but the new norm for the foreseeable future. But there will be a point where people will no longer be scared and will re-enter the world. That being said, the virus will have to be lived with in the short term. Long term, manufacturing will come back to the US. As for China, no, they will not come out smelling like roses. People will find out they hid thousands of deaths and knew exactly where this virus came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Mack Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 48 minutes ago, SpaceFan9 said: none taken. by the same measure, my homeschooled-before-everybody-did-it kids are not enjoying this either. All of their sports have been shut down. Two days a week, my kids typically socialized with other family's---one day at a church co-op where we ran weekly classes, the other in "the woods". Plus once a month, a field-trip to museums, or a community assistance service center, or the like. None of that is happening now. I guess my point is, a typically school week should be much different/better than what we are experiencing now, regardless of the previous schooling environment. I can imagine its incredible frustrating to be thrown into home learning on short notice though. You have my sympathies. You make a good point. Millions of people across the country right now are home schooling amateurs. I am. My wife is. My son is. His teachers are. Given some time and more experience with technology and basic home schooling teaching plans, I'm sure our experience would be much better. But most schools threw this together on the fly. It's a work in progress. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkrigger Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 I am not an epidemiologist but as a research scientist (experimental physics, numerical analysis) I believe this article is interesting, it is a rather convoluted read. I would very much like to hear from others who have read this carefully, especially scientists who have more knowledge in this realm. https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-china-trail-leading-back-to-wuhan-labs/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squeakdizzle Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 We want castle law! Not martial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$20 on joe vs dan Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 printing money w reckless abandon has real consequences...tripling the national depth with one piece of legislation is a nightmare scenario for the fiscally responsible and informed. I am not an economist...but let's revert back to the phrase "the cure is worse than the disease"...what if the "relief" package ends up being viewed as just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redghostx Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 printing money w reckless abandon has real consequences...tripling the national depth with one piece of legislation is a nightmare scenario for the fiscally responsible and informed. I am not an economist...but let's revert back to the phrase "the cure is worse than the disease"...what if the "relief" package ends up being viewed as just that.There are studies that calculate that a person's worth is between 7-12 million USD, so theoretically if the 'cure' averages out to less than that per head, then society is ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceFan9 Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 If you're in need of a pick-me-up, Hour 1 from the podcast below helped me this afternoon... https://www.daveramsey.com/show/archives/2020-04-03?mode=listen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 6 hours ago, asharerin said: I guarantee there will be much, much stronger measures. The best we can hope for is stepping up from a depression to a recession. Sorry to say but that is just reality. We won't ever be going back to "normal". Most service industry jobs in the USA will never come back. Stop. Do yourself a favor and turn off the news. It’s terrible. Nothing but doom and gloom. The media is waging psychological warfare on the American people and the only way to to win is simply turn it off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIevo Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, Mathew said: Stop. Do yourself a favor and turn off the news. It’s terrible. Nothing but doom and gloom. The media is waging psychological warfare on the American people and the only way to to win is simply turn it off. Don't forget social media, not sure what's worse anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, NIevo said: Don't forget social media, not sure what's worse anymore. It’s all bad. Best thing is to read a book, play video games, listen to music, exercise, build LEGO etc. Edited April 5, 2020 by Mathew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIevo Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 (edited) I know this might be the sad truth for many of you, especially those bashing our President but it's a good watch. And keep in mind that Trump was asking for travel bans in January and getting nothing but pushback and being called a racist. https://youtu.be/WslBRY9B-n4 Edited April 5, 2020 by NIevo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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