COVID-19 / Coronavirus Discussion

[Shortbus311]

I'm not talking about a tank or battle ship...it's the freakin Hospital SHip...unless there are massive gun turrets hiding under that large Building with the Red Cross on it.
Stop playing Devil's advocate..if there are policies in place that keeps US from using its own Hospital ships, then the system is broken...not a good excuse
Also if you're so into the timing...how about 2 weeks ago or even a week ago?  or is a week a "reasonable amount of time" to mobilize an emergency vessel...because I still think that's way too long.

The USNS Comfort is a USNS ship, not a USS ship. It is operated almost strictly by civilian personnel and military and reserve medical personnel and the ship normally has a skeleton crew while in port. The rest of the crew are only called in once a emergency happens and the ship is ordered to respond. From what I read, the boat was in a maintenance period, which could have meant that engines were being worked on and repaired, or even replaced. Most supplies are removed from ships as well during maintenance availabilities, so they may have had to find more of those. I don't know if you have ever been around the lowest bidding companies that win the government contracts to repair our ships or not, but they are extremely slow and inefficient. Ships are often delayed coming out of overhaul periods by months or even a year.

Plus, add in the fact that the reserve military medical professionals who sail on these ships aren't just sitting around twiddling their thumbs waiting for a emergency to happen. These are doctors and nurses from hospitals all over the country. And these hospitals are now a little less well staffed when USNS Comfort and Mercy are stood up.

[Ed Mack]

Let's put this to rest...face masks of almost any kind reduce virus spread.  Whether it's a lot or a little, it does.  It's a physical barrier.  That being said, I realize why the government (Feds, CDC, WHO, Surgeon General, Etc...) would recommend against it...they are trying to stop hoarding and put the available masks in the hands of doctors and nurses.  If they weren't effective, why are doctors and nurses wearing them?  That is all...

[NIevo]

8 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:

Let's put this to rest...face masks of almost any kind reduce virus spread.  Whether it's a lot or a little, it does.  It's a physical barrier.  That being said, I realize why the government (Feds, CDC, WHO, Surgeon General, Etc...) would recommend against it...they are trying to stop hoarding and put the available masks in the hands of doctors and nurses.  If they weren't effective, why are doctors and nurses wearing them?  That is all...

A lot of the argument against them, kinda like gloves, is they give a false sense of security to the people using them and cause more harm then good to a vast majority.  Problem seems to be that in studies people with masks touched their face more often then without them which just spread the germs around more.  Same with gloves, people spread stuff around more with gloves because they weren't being washed/sanitized like hands should be and so whatever contaminants were on the gloves gets spread around to other surfaces and your hands if you take them off improperly which most people don't know how to correctly take off a glove.

Doctors, Nurses and a lot of us with food service/hazmat training might benefit from using them since they are used properly.  I can't tell you how many people I see daily shopping with gloves and masks constantly moving them around, touching their faces, rubbing their eyes with the gloves etc.

[Phil B]

I think we should just move everyone over 60 and anyone with a preexisting condition to Florida, move all others into the remaining states, continue business as usual in all states except Florida. </duck>

[CosmicSpeed]

5 minutes ago, NIevo said:

A lot of the argument against them, kinda like gloves, is they give a false sense of security to the people using them and cause more harm then good to a vast majority.  Problem seems to be that in studies people with masks touched their face more often then without them which just spread the germs around more.  Same with gloves, people spread stuff around more with gloves because they weren't being washed/sanitized like hands should be and so whatever contaminants were on the gloves gets spread around to other surfaces and your hands if you take them off improperly which most people don't know how to correctly take off a glove.

Doctors, Nurses and a lot of us with food service/hazmat training might benefit from using them since they are used properly.  I can't tell you how many people I see daily shopping with gloves and masks constantly moving them around, touching their faces, rubbing their eyes with the gloves etc.

I am a PRO now at controlling my buggy with my forearms.

[Ed Mack]

9 minutes ago, NIevo said:

A lot of the argument against them, kinda like gloves, is they give a false sense of security to the people using them and cause more harm then good to a vast majority.  Problem seems to be that in studies people with masks touched their face more often then without them which just spread the germs around more.  Same with gloves, people spread stuff around more with gloves because they weren't being washed/sanitized like hands should be and so whatever contaminants were on the gloves gets spread around to other surfaces and your hands if you take them off improperly which most people don't know how to correctly take off a glove.

Doctors, Nurses and a lot of us with food service/hazmat training might benefit from using them since they are used properly.  I can't tell you how many people I see daily shopping with gloves and masks constantly moving them around, touching their faces, rubbing their eyes with the gloves etc.

While I agree with you there could be some issues with usage, application and removing the masks properly, masks are obviously effective(to some degree) if properly used.  One main issue I see is the stigma of walking around with masks on in the US.  I really don't see people wanting to go that route unless forced to do so.  I know I really don't want to do it.  

[Donut]

8 minutes ago, Phil B said:

I think we should just move everyone over 60 and anyone with a preexisting condition to Florida, move all others into the remaining states, continue business as usual in all states except Florida. </duck>

I'll agree if we could have Hawaii 

[NIevo]

7 minutes ago, Phil B said:

I think we should just move everyone over 60 and anyone with a preexisting condition to Florida, move all others into the remaining states, continue business as usual in all states except Florida. </duck>

Some joking aside, I've contented from the beginning that we should have isolated/quarantined those at highest risk from the beginning with the rest just taking some precautions and keeping things as normal as possible.  We could continue working on vaccines and treatments but without everything coming crashing down.

2 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:

While I agree with you there could be some issues with usage, application and removing the masks properly, masks are obviously effective(to some degree) if properly used.  One main issue I see is the stigma of walking around with masks on in the US.  I really don't see people wanting to go that route unless forced to do so.  I know I really don't want to do it.  

I agree with that as well, it's just something people here aren't used to but that also goes along with people not using them properly or knowing the limits of them.

[NIevo]

17 hours ago, Darth_Raichu said:

2 years of Keto diet went down the drain thanks to the quarantine.  At least that was my excuse for eating this huge bag of Lays

[jaisonline]

11 hours ago, junkrigger said:

Absolutely disgusting medical corporation greed and profiteering over public wellbeing. Makes those hand sanitizer dudes look like good samaritans. 

https://www.propublica.org/article/taxpayers-paid-millions-to-design-a-low-cost-ventilator-for-a-pandemic-instead-the-company-is-selling-versions-of-it-overseas-

your source web site, propublica is definitely better than avg for facts.   thanks for sharing the article.

 

 found this interesting.

"This past September, with the design of the new Trilogy Evo Universal finally cleared by the Food and Drug Administration, HHS ordered 10,000 of the ventilators for the Strategic National Stockpile at a cost of $3,280 each.

But as the pandemic continues to spread across the globe, there is still not a single Trilogy Evo Universal in the stockpile.

Instead last summer, soon after the FDA’s approval, the Pennsylvania company that designed the device — a subsidiary of the Dutch appliance and technology giant Royal Philips N.V. — began selling two higher-priced commercial versions of the same ventilator around the world."

[jaisonline]

it's 100% airborne. i didn't think people were even debating that anymore. last month (feb), docs like my wife were told it wasn't airborne. i posted here the facts that were given. a few weeks later after more testing and folks were tested, it became known.

n95s and eye shielding are critical.  

the WHO was so far ahead of the CDC and FDA in Jan. and Feb, as this video was made on 2/11.

3 hours ago, Pseudoty said:

I still don’t know how to time stamp YouTube videos but please go to 38:30 and watch for 1 minute And hear it from the horses mouth himself. Then we can finally put to rest the airborne transmission should we wear masks argument. 
 

 

 

[NIevo]

Interesting new theory that the CV might have been in humans for a long time now but just recently mutated to it's more dangerous form. 

https://www.sciencealert.com/the-new-coronavirus-could-have-been-percolating-innocently-in-humans-for-years

[Pseudoty]

1 hour ago, Ed Mack said:

While I agree with you there could be some issues with usage, application and removing the masks properly, masks are obviously effective(to some degree) if properly used.  One main issue I see is the stigma of walking around with masks on in the US.  I really don't see people wanting to go that route unless forced to do so.  I know I really don't want to do it.  

Kinda like condoms when HIV began or seatbelts. During the Spanish Flu in 1918 it was mandatory to wear face masks in some cities in the USA. In 2 weeks it will be the norm but they can’t call them masks because that would be contrary to their message they will be called face covers or something like that and you will be required to wear one to go food shopping. Wearing a N95 mask at Walmart today does give you the feeling like wearing a Cowboys jersey to an Eagles game but I have seen the change. 2 weeks ago maybe 1 or 2 other people with masks last weekend about 30% of people wearing gloves and 10% wearing masks and I bet all the people wearing gloves would be wearing masks if they could get them. 

[ravenb99]

16 minutes ago, Pseudoty said:

 

Pulled that right out of your personal photos eh?

[TheOrcKing]

44 minutes ago, Pseudoty said:

Hey look, it's the Apple Dumpling Gang!

[Pseudoty]

32 minutes ago, ravenb99 said:

Pulled that right out of your personal photos eh?

No that is from San Francisco but if you have the time go back and read @Ed Mack post and substitute the word condom for mask and it really does make sense. 

[keymomachine]

4 hours ago, Ed Mack said:

While I agree with you there could be some issues with usage, application and removing the masks properly, masks are obviously effective(to some degree) if properly used.  One main issue I see is the stigma of walking around with masks on in the US.  I really don't see people wanting to go that route unless forced to do so.  I know I really don't want to do it.  

I decided this week to wear a mask for grocery shopping when I know I'm going to get in peoples bubble to some degree (as aisles are barely 6' wide). I noticed two weeks ago about 15% of people wearing masks at Meijer, then last week more like 50% of people, this week I went to Aldi instead and it's more like 20% of people there, but the demographic skews quite a bit poorer there. It's certainly more awkward to interact with people with a mask on, but you just follow Tyra Banks advice from America's Next Top Model and smile with your eyes: "Smeyesing"

[jaisonline]

Yep.  People made masks out of anything possible. 
 

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/25/821597079/1918-flu

 

3 hours ago, Pseudoty said:

Kinda like condoms when HIV began or seatbelts. During the Spanish Flu in 1918 it was mandatory to wear face masks in some cities in the USA. In 2 weeks it will be the norm but they can’t call them masks because that would be contrary to their message they will be called face covers or something like that and you will be required to wear one to go food shopping. Wearing a N95 mask at Walmart today does give you the feeling like wearing a Cowboys jersey to an Eagles game but I have seen the change. 2 weeks ago maybe 1 or 2 other people with masks last weekend about 30% of people wearing gloves and 10% wearing masks and I bet all the people wearing gloves would be wearing masks if they could get them. 

 

[benjamin4172]

In Germany officials say that using selfmade masks and the non n95 ffp1-3 masks will mostly prevent, that if someone is infected he wont infect others. Its about passive protection. At this point there is no evidence for those masks to protect actively. But at the first day I heard officials about that topic I thought its about preventing that people start to hoard. But anyways...in Austria and one City in Germany people have to wear masks from now on in public places like Supermarkets...

[$20 on joe vs dan]

5 hours ago, Ed Mack said:

While I agree with you there could be some issues with usage, application and removing the masks properly, masks are obviously effective(to some degree) if properly used.  One main issue I see is the stigma of walking around with masks on in the US.  I really don't see people wanting to go that route unless forced to do so.  I know I really don't want to do it.  

If everyone wheres one, no more stigma...which is the first hurdle that needs to be addressed.

Tons of reasons why NOT to wear one, but if we're looking at the worse case scenario of someone who is sick WITH symptoms spewing contaminated droplets everywhere...there is a ton of data that says a mask will reduce that spread significantly...and if it takes everyone to wear a mask to "make" that sick person wear his...then during this time, shouldn't we do it?

[Ed Mack]

16 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

If everyone wheres one, no more stigma...which is the first hurdle that needs to be addressed.

Tons of reasons why NOT to wear one, but if we're looking at the worse case scenario of someone who is sick WITH symptoms spewing contaminated droplets everywhere...there is a ton of data that says a mask will reduce that spread significantly...and if it takes everyone to wear a mask to "make" that sick person wear his...then during this time, shouldn't we do it?

I agree...We have a long way to got before we get to hundreds of millions of masks.  

[Pseudoty]

There our President just said it at the news conference: “Wear a scarf or a mask, lots of people have scarves at home so why not wear one”

[crayxlp]

1 hour ago, benjamin4172 said:

In Germany officials say that using selfmade masks and the non n95 ffp1-3 masks will mostly prevent, that if someone is infected he wont infect others. Its about passive protection. At this point there is no evidence for those masks to protect actively. But at the first day I heard officials about that topic I thought its about preventing that people start to hoard. But anyways...in Austria and one City in Germany people have to wear masks from now on in public places like Supermarkets...

Your officials are just taking an inspiration from our country - the local gov issued a nation wide declaration that EVERYBODY has to wear some kind of protective mask / scarf (whatever covering the mouth and nose) in the public effective March 15 (if Im not mistaken).. 5 days ago another ruling that every single person entering a grocery store has to wear either gloves or some other suitable protective (such as throw away microtene bags). Its really amazing how the superior, advanced western countries underestimate the situation so much.  Even here there are some who do not obey the rules / declarations but its a real minority. Sooner or later all of your government would just do the same - straighten the rules - but too late.

Edited March 31, 2020 by crayxlp

[NIevo]

Well adding to the doomsday scenario now we are having Earthquakes.  6.5 just hit the central part of the state.

[Gonkalin]

what state?