COVID-19 / Coronavirus Discussion

[jaisonline]

 

14 minutes ago, Phil B said:

My wife and daughter are both self-quarantining in our house. Wife has chest tightness since last weekend, daughter has a mild fever (100F, 37.7C). Both had a bit of a runny nose, some minor stomach issues, and are otherwise fine.

We called their doctors early in the week and the advice was that it could very well be CV but there was no way to tell, to self-isolate and drink lots of fluids. They didn’t prescribe tests, because even if they did, we would get turned away at the lab as there is no capacity to deal with anyone but the most critical cases.

So, as already mentioned before, infection rates are much higher than reported (and hence death rates much lower) because people with mild or non-standard symptoms are not being tested.

Terrible. Get well.  Tylenol only for fever as a just in case.  
I believe children with symptoms are considered critical, right?

[jaisonline]

Published this morning.  My wife told me last month this was likely going on with the test kit debacles & supplies.

“ The coronavirus test that wasn’t: How federal health officials misled state scientists and derailed the best chance at containment”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/03/27/coronavirus-test-officials-botched-rollout-derailed-containment/5080781002/?fbclid=IwAR39OMd5VVHv555t7qWRjrrylG6dCEAs8EOnhjgcQNut0OTMlcZ-vvM-4jE

[iahawks550]

17 minutes ago, Phil B said:

 Wife has chest tightness since last weekend, daughter has a mild fever (100F, 37.7C).
 

I had these exact symptoms. It started with the chest tightness, which I thought were allergies. Singulair didn't work, and I developed a fever. Negative flu test and was denied Covid test. I never developed a cough. After 2+ weeks, there are still some residual respiratory issues. I won't know what it was, and it may not matter.

Edited March 27, 2020 by iahawks550

[Pseudoty]

25 minutes ago, Phil B said:

My wife and daughter are both self-quarantining in our house. Wife has chest tightness since last weekend, daughter has a mild fever (100F, 37.7C). Both had a bit of a runny nose, some minor stomach issues, and are otherwise fine.

We called their doctors early in the week and the advice was that it could very well be CV but there was no way to tell, to self-isolate and drink lots of fluids. They didn’t prescribe tests, because even if they did, we would get turned away at the lab as there is no capacity to deal with anyone but the most critical cases.

So, as already mentioned before, infection rates are much higher than reported (and hence death rates much lower) because people with mild or non-standard symptoms are not being tested.

 Sorry to hear this update from you. Perhaps you could order or pick up one of these less discussed but still price gouging going on:

https://www.amazon.com/CONTEC-CMS50DL-Oximeter-Carrying-Silicone/dp/B072JCXXTD/ref=sr_1_3?crid=259SY2FPQ3EBP&dchild=1&keywords=pulse+oximeter&qid=1585311873&sprefix=Puls%2Caps%2C150&sr=8-3

Reports are saying that when someone with CoVid-19 progresses from mild to severe illness one of the first signs is a drop in blood oxygen levels that requires supplemental oxygen.  Although you will not have baseline readings most young healthy non-smokers should be 97% and above.

We are seeing the same thing here a lack of synthetic swabs and reagents needed to run the test so only the most ill are getting tested. So yes as you say infection rates are way underreported but so are fatalities:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nidhiprakash/coronavirus-update-dead-covid19-doctors-hospitals

[Phil B]

21 minutes ago, Pseudoty said:

 Sorry to hear this update from you. Perhaps you could order or pick up one of these less discussed but still price gouging going on:

https://www.amazon.com/CONTEC-CMS50DL-Oximeter-Carrying-Silicone/dp/B072JCXXTD/ref=sr_1_3?crid=259SY2FPQ3EBP&dchild=1&keywords=pulse+oximeter&qid=1585311873&sprefix=Puls%2Caps%2C150&sr=8-3

Reports are saying that when someone with CoVid-19 progresses from mild to severe illness one of the first signs is a drop in blood oxygen levels that requires supplemental oxygen.  Although you will not have baseline readings most young healthy non-smokers should be 97% and above.

We are seeing the same thing here a lack of synthetic swabs and reagents needed to run the test so only the most ill are getting tested. So yes as you say infection rates are way underreported but so are fatalities:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nidhiprakash/coronavirus-update-dead-covid19-doctors-hospitals

Bought one at my local Kroger the other day, no price gouging required . Was the last one on the shelf though ...

38 minutes ago, jaisonline said:

 

Terrible. Get well.  Tylenol only for fever as a just in case.  
I believe children with symptoms are considered critical, right?

Daughter is 14. Nothing critical about that age :). She's also feeling tired and complains occasionally of being cold - which could be related to the mild fever she has from time to time.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Phil B

[Ed Mack]

I think one of the major issues with this virus is the stress and hypochondria that it elicits.  Dr. Birx stated yesterday that 84% of the 550,000 tests given to date have come back negative so far, so either there is a lot of regular flu, colds and hay fever around or people are thinking they have it.  I for one constantly find myself breathing in deeply and question every cough or sniffle that I have.  For 4 weeks I have had thought I have had sore throats, only to find they mysteriously go away.  Maybe it's hay fever from the early pollen season.  Maybe it's the hand sanitizer and Lysol spray I am inhaling everyday.  Maybe it's in my brain.  It's not a good way to live.

[Pseudoty]

28 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:

I think one of the major issues with this virus is the stress and hypochondria that it elicits.  Dr. Birx stated yesterday that 84% of the 550,000 tests given to date have come back negative so far, so either there is a lot of regular flu, colds and hay fever around or people are thinking they have it.  I for one constantly find myself breathing in deeply and question every cough or sniffle that I have.  For 4 weeks I have had thought I have had sore throats, only to find they mysteriously go away.  Maybe it's hay fever from the early pollen season.  Maybe it's the hand sanitizer and Lysol spray I am inhaling everyday.  Maybe it's in my brain.  It's not a good way to live.

I read a good study out of China (don’t have the link now) but 90% of the people in that study tested negative prior to converting to positive. It had a nice graph of the days between conversion and that testing positive on the test that they were using required a very high viral load. 

I think in the USA we would be seeing the same effect especially if they are using a quantitative Vs a qualitative test. Kind of like an OTC urine pregnancy test you need to have a high enough level of the hormone to trigger a positive. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Pseudoty

[Ed Mack]

14 minutes ago, Pseudoty said:

I read a good study out of China (don’t have the link now) but 90% of the people in that study tested negative prior to converting to positive. It had a nice graph of the days between conversion and that testing positive on the test that they were using required a very high viral load. 

I think in the USA we would be seeing the same effect especially if they are using a quantitative Vs a qualitative test. Kind of like an OTC urine pregnancy test you need to have a high enough level of the hormone to trigger a positive. 

Makes sense.  I'm sure there is some lag with testing.  As we move along here, the tests will improve and easier to implement.  

[NIevo]

3 hours ago, Phil B said:

My wife and daughter are both self-quarantining in our house. Wife has chest tightness since last weekend, daughter has a mild fever (100F, 37.7C). Both had a bit of a runny nose, some minor stomach issues, and are otherwise fine.

We called their doctors early in the week and the advice was that it could very well be CV but there was no way to tell, to self-isolate and drink lots of fluids. They didn’t prescribe tests, because even if they did, we would get turned away at the lab as there is no capacity to deal with anyone but the most critical cases.

So, as already mentioned before, infection rates are much higher than reported (and hence death rates much lower) because people with mild or non-standard symptoms are not being tested.

Praying for a speedy recovery for them regardless if it's CV or not.  How are you feeling?

One of the most misleading things the media especially is doing with this is the overinflated death rate % numbers.   Just as $20 on Joe stated, even in a small sample 25% of all people tested were positive.  Even reducing that to 10% in the USA that means over 38 million already have or have had it.  Obviously not scientific but at the rate it is spread not out of the realm of possibility which reduces the death rate to .002%.  Of course more people are going to die unfortunately that are in hospitals now or have it, but you can see how the panic level from thinking 3-4% are dying to thinking well under 1% will would change things.

[NIevo]

1 hour ago, Ed Mack said:

I think one of the major issues with this virus is the stress and hypochondria that it elicits.  Dr. Birx stated yesterday that 84% of the 550,000 tests given to date have come back negative so far, so either there is a lot of regular flu, colds and hay fever around or people are thinking they have it.  I for one constantly find myself breathing in deeply and question every cough or sniffle that I have.  For 4 weeks I have had thought I have had sore throats, only to find they mysteriously go away.  Maybe it's hay fever from the early pollen season.  Maybe it's the hand sanitizer and Lysol spray I am inhaling everyday.  Maybe it's in my brain.  It's not a good way to live.

Yes, the mind can do crazy things.  We have a couple people at work like that.  Every little feeling they have they are trying to associate with having CV.

[NIevo]

3 hours ago, jaisonline said:

Published this morning.  My wife told me last month this was likely going on with the test kit debacles & supplies.

“ The coronavirus test that wasn’t: How federal health officials misled state scientists and derailed the best chance at containment”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/03/27/coronavirus-test-officials-botched-rollout-derailed-containment/5080781002/?fbclid=IwAR39OMd5VVHv555t7qWRjrrylG6dCEAs8EOnhjgcQNut0OTMlcZ-vvM-4jE

Article is just finger pointing when instead we should be using this as a learning tool.  Doesn't do anything but try and play the blame game on things that we now know but you know that old saying about hindsight.  Yes things were botched, yes agencies were unprepared and caught off guard but what we need to do instead of publishing hit pieces is try and learn from it and move on.  Same as trying to blame Trump for any of this crap like some are doing.  Heck, if we play the blame game the N95 mask shortage should be blamed on the Obama administration for never replenishing the stock of masks after 2009.

With the rate CV spreads and the length of time people take to show symptoms and some not showing at all this whole thing was inevitable regardless of what thing agency or that agency would have done.

[jaisonline]

24 minutes ago, NIevo said:

Article is just finger pointing when instead we should be using this as a learning tool.  Doesn't do anything but try and play the blame game on things that we now know but you know that old saying about hindsight.  Yes things were botched, yes agencies were unprepared and caught off guard but what we need to do instead of publishing hit pieces is try and learn from it and move on.  Same as trying to blame Trump for any of this crap like some are doing.  Heck, if we play the blame game the N95 mask shortage should be blamed on the Obama administration for never replenishing the stock of masks after 2009.

With the rate CV spreads and the length of time people take to show symptoms and some not showing at all this whole thing was inevitable regardless of what thing agency or that agency would have done.

Dude, it's just an informative article about what went wrong so we can learn from it.  The CDC & FDA f'd up.  End of story.  Move on and overcome this PoS virus.

[fuzzy_bricks]

4 hours ago, jaisonline said:

Published this morning.  My wife told me last month this was likely going on with the test kit debacles & supplies.

“ The coronavirus test that wasn’t: How federal health officials misled state scientists and derailed the best chance at containment”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/03/27/coronavirus-test-officials-botched-rollout-derailed-containment/5080781002/?fbclid=IwAR39OMd5VVHv555t7qWRjrrylG6dCEAs8EOnhjgcQNut0OTMlcZ-vvM-4jE

Here is another.  Sounds like a cluster all around.

https://www.propublica.org/article/internal-emails-show-how-chaos-at-the-cdc-slowed-the-early-response-to-coronavirus

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by fuzzy_bricks

[HappyHawkeye]

30 minutes ago, NIevo said:

Article is just finger pointing when instead we should be using this as a learning tool.  Doesn't do anything but try and play the blame game on things that we now know but you know that old saying about hindsight.  Yes things were botched, yes agencies were unprepared and caught off guard but what we need to do instead of publishing hit pieces is try and learn from it and move on.  Same as trying to blame Trump for any of this crap like some are doing.  Heck, if we play the blame game the N95 mask shortage should be blamed on the Obama administration for never replenishing the stock of masks after 2009.

With the rate CV spreads and the length of time people take to show symptoms and some not showing at all this whole thing was inevitable regardless of what thing agency or that agency would have done.

Instead of locking the thread again, which seems inevitable, can we instead consider banning turds like this that can't seem to stop themselves from posting bad political takes and trying to start fights? Please? 

I mean seriously, you have any number of social media sites you can go to if you wan't to waste time arguing. There are others that will happily engage with you and you can solve all of the country's problems by owning them online.

[BrickLegacy]

Dr John Campbell on YouTube has been a great resource.  He's been ahead of the game the whole time.  Check him out.

[yukmeez]

3 minutes ago, HappyHawkeye said:

Instead of locking the thread again, which seems inevitable, can we instead consider banning turds like this that can't seem to stop themselves from posting bad political takes and trying to start fights? Please? 

I mean seriously, you have any number of social media sites you can go to if you wan't to waste time arguing. There are others that will happily engage with you and you can solve all of the country's problems by owning them online.

Agreed - the re-opening of the thread was refreshing with some personal stories and actual value adds. 

We are at a point where we need to put aside difference, politics, religion, race or whatever else it may be, and band together!

@Phil B We hope that your family has a speedy and complete recovery, from whatever it may be!

 

[$20 on joe vs dan]

Wife also noting tightness in chest. 5 days so far w/ mild runny nose but no fever and has good energy. Since she noticed it we amped up disinfecting but it's pretty hard to self quarantine in the same household.

Reading all the horror stories at hospitals...I think if it's mild to medium symptoms, staying away from possible hotbeds will likely do more good than what any testing information will provide. Viral load exposure seems to be a factor, meaning even if you get exposure...more exposure can make it worse.

[NIevo]

8 minutes ago, HappyHawkeye said:

Instead of locking the thread again, which seems inevitable, can we instead consider banning turds like this that can't seem to stop themselves from posting bad political takes and trying to start fights? Please? 

I mean seriously, you have any number of social media sites you can go to if you wan't to waste time arguing. There are others that will happily engage with you and you can solve all of the country's problems by owning them online.

Actually if you'd read what I wrote I was mostly agreeing with the article, just not how their coming across to most people.  Most of them aren't doing any purpose other then to gain attention to that media outlet or cause more panic. 

2 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

Wife also noting tightness in chest. 5 days so far w/ mild runny nose but no fever and has good energy. Since she noticed it we amped up disinfecting but it's pretty hard to self quarantine in the same household.

Reading all the horror stories at hospitals...I think if it's mild to medium symptoms, staying away from possible hotbeds will likely do more good than what any testing information will provide. Viral load exposure seems to be a factor, meaning even if you get exposure...more exposure can make it worse.

Hope everything is ok and she recovers quickly.  Is she otherwise pretty healthy?

[$20 on joe vs dan]

4 hours ago, Phil B said:

Bought one at my local Kroger the other day, no price gouging required . Was the last one on the shelf though ...

Phil, does this thing work?

I wouldn't expect high accuracy, but if it's close and consistent, a user could compare to their own baseline and any change can be noteworthy

[Phil B]

2 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

Phil, does this thing work?

I wouldn't expect high accuracy, but if it's close and consistent, a user could compare to their own baseline and any change can be noteworthy

It works as in, it reports blood oxygenation. Wife is of the latent hypochondriac type, so I just bought this to add another calming factor into the mix.

Neither of the ladies are in a bad condition in any way, they're just sticking to their beds and rooms. The upside of a McMansion in the midwest US is that every bedroom has its own bathroom, so isolation is pretty easy to do.

Us boys have no symptoms (yet) - my son and I. So we get the rest of the house. My hands are raw from all the handwashing and even moisturizing cream doesn't help anymore . Pretty busy times working a fulltime job from home, taking care of 2 patients, and running a household. Happy that it's almost weekend!

[$20 on joe vs dan]

9 minutes ago, Phil B said:

It works as in, it reports blood oxygenation. Wife is of the latent hypochondriac type, so I just bought this to add another calming factor into the mix.

I just ordered one on Amazon...ship by Apr 27(LOL).  

Thanks for sharing and I really hope everyone gets healthy soon.

[NIevo]

1 minute ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

I just ordered one on Amazon...ship by Apr 27(LOL).  

Thanks for sharing and I really hope everyone gets healthy soon.

You think something like that would fall under their essential items category for faster shipping, unless they are just out of stock?

 

[$20 on joe vs dan]

3 minutes ago, NIevo said:

You think something like that would fall under their essential items category for faster shipping, unless they are just out of stock?

 

Marketed as a sport/fitness item so maybe that's why...I figure getting one couldn't hurt...but the best home test of low O2...lips turning blue

If things get worse (knock on wooden MF), this device is one more quantitative metric that can be used to justify medical treatment.

We are in medical field so had a portable O2 tank handy...hoping to not need it, but it's another intermediate step to delay going to the hospital as long as possible.   

[Ed Mack]

1 hour ago, NIevo said:

Article is just finger pointing when instead we should be using this as a learning tool.  Doesn't do anything but try and play the blame game on things that we now know but you know that old saying about hindsight.  Yes things were botched, yes agencies were unprepared and caught off guard but what we need to do instead of publishing hit pieces is try and learn from it and move on.  Same as trying to blame Trump for any of this crap like some are doing.  Heck, if we play the blame game the N95 mask shortage should be blamed on the Obama administration for never replenishing the stock of masks after 2009.

With the rate CV spreads and the length of time people take to show symptoms and some not showing at all this whole thing was inevitable regardless of what thing agency or that agency would have done.

Enough with Trump stuff.  We are all in this together and we will all figure this out on a local basis.

[NIevo]

Just now, $20 on joe vs dan said:

Marketed as a sport/fitness item so maybe that's why...I figure getting one couldn't hurt...but the best home test of low O2...lips turning blue

If things get worse (knock on wooden MF), this device is one more quantitative metric that can be used to justify medical treatment.

We are in medical field so had a portable O2 tank handy...hoping to not need it, but it's another intermediate step to delay going to the hospital as long as possible.   

Well hopefully it doesn't get to the point where you need anything more serious.