COVID-19 / Coronavirus Discussion

[Ed Mack]

3 minutes ago, Alpinemaps said:

If we use that logic, then everything the President says is going to be believed by a large number of people.  Including Impeachment, "Lock her up," and a host of other things.

I could say the same thing with Mr. Trudeau.  And frankly, with any other politician.

But let's stop at the name calling (again).  You can criticize what he said, but calling him "morally bankrupt" is what we're trying to avoid in this thread.

At the end of the day, this couple was stupid.  Don't make excuses for them.  If it wasn't the President saying it, then they would have heard it from somewhere else, and been just as dumb.  When my 8 year old says, "but Logan Paul said to do it!" I don't give him a pass.  And he's 8.

This.  

[CosmicSpeed]

Mecklenburg Co. North Carolina (Charlotte) on Stay at Home order From March 26 to April 16.

Looks like I am going to be building...

[jeff_14]

7 minutes ago, Alpinemaps said:

If we use that logic, then everything the President says is going to be believed by a large number of people.  Including Impeachment, "Lock her up," and a host of other things.

I could say the same thing with Mr. Trudeau.  And frankly, with any other politician.

But let's stop at the name calling (again).  You can criticize what he said, but calling him "morally bankrupt" is what we're trying to avoid in this thread.

At the end of the day, this couple was stupid.  Don't make excuses for them.  If it wasn't the President saying it, then they would have heard it from somewhere else, and been just as dumb.  When my 8 year old says, "but Logan Paul said to do it!" I don't give him a pass.  And he's 8.

The logic is different when he’s endorsing a medical treatment as opposed to saying everything he does is “beautiful” or whatever. And I’d love to see one example of anything Trudeau has said that’s in the same ballpark as this. 

[fuzzy_bricks]

11 minutes ago, Alpinemaps said:

I could say the same thing with Mr. Trudeau.  And frankly, with any other politician.

 

3 minutes ago, jeff_14 said:

The logic is different when he’s endorsing a medical treatment as opposed to saying everything he does is “beautiful” or whatever. And I’d love to see one example of anything Trudeau has said that’s in the same ballpark as this. 

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by fuzzy_bricks

[Ed Mack]

This is why NYC is having issues...

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1242526450881835014?s=20

[jeff_14]

6 minutes ago, fuzzy_bricks said:

 

 

I didn’t realize high school teacher Trudeau ran the country back then.

Here’s how a leader behaves:

“We are continuing, in Canada, to base our decisions and our recommendations and our guidelines to Canadians on science,” Trudeau said.

“Our priority is keeping Canadians alive and healthy and that is what we will continue to focus on in Canada.”

[Ed Mack]

Just now, jeff_14 said:

I didn’t realize high school teacher Trudeau ran the country back then.

Here’s how a leader behaves:

“We are continuing, in Canada, to base our decisions and our recommendations and our guidelines to Canadians on science,” Trudeau said.

“Our priority is keeping Canadians alive and healthy and that is what we will continue to focus on in Canada.”

Typical political response.  Let's move along.  One can say I am not really impressed with any of these leaders and their responses.  

[jeff_14]

4 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:

Typical political response.  Let's move along.  One can say I am not really impressed with any of these leaders and their responses.  

The consequences of that response vs Trump’s are material and telling. Your infection and fatality numbers are far greater than Canada’s even accounting for a population ten times higher. 

[Ed Mack]

8 minutes ago, jeff_14 said:

The consequences of that response vs Trump’s are material and telling. Your infection and fatality numbers are far greater than Canada’s even accounting for a population ten times higher. 

New York City is the main reason for our huge increase in cases.  It is what it is.  The large amount of travelers from China and Europe makes it next to impossible to control in such a large city unless you crack down like they did in Wuhan.  That won't happen, unless you wan't to risk riots and many other issues.  They have the subways operating and they are packed.  Same with trains and buses.  They are petri dishes.  

Fortunately for you, Canada is a large country with a population much smaller than the US.  I would expect numbers to be much smaller.  I also don't think you have hot spots like we have with large asian populations that could have been seeded by travelers.  Don't brag about it, it's not really cool.

[jeff_14]

8 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:

New York City is the main reason for our huge increase in cases.  It is what it is.  The large amount of travelers from China and Europe makes it next to impossible to control in such a large city unless you crack down like they did in Wuhan.  That won't happen, unless you wan't to risk riots and many other issues.  They have the subways operating and they are packed.  Same with trains and buses.  They are petri dishes.  

Fortunately for you, Canada is a large country with a population much smaller than the US.  I would expect numbers to be much smaller.  I also don't think you have hot spots like we have with large asian populations that could have been seeded by travelers.  Don't brag about it, it's not really cool.

Canadians are almost all clustered within 100 miles of the US border, and we have 2 major Asian communities in Toronto and Vancouver. Both are very multicultural, indeed Toronto is recognized as the most multicultural city on the planet. We’ve had one death. Ontario is 40% of the population but far less a share of the infections and deaths across the country. Almost half of our deaths are from one old age home in Vancouver area. Most of our initial infections were from people returning from seeing family in Iran which has been really hard hit. 

[Ed Mack]

3 minutes ago, jeff_14 said:

Canadians are almost all clustered within 100 miles of the US border, and we have 2 major Asian communities in Toronto and Vancouver. Both are very multicultural, indeed Toronto is recognized as the most multicultural city on the planet. We’ve had one death. Ontario is 40% of the population but far less a share of the infections and deaths across the country. Almost half of our deaths are from one old age home in Vancouver area. Most of our initial infections were from people returning from seeing family in Iran which has been really hard hit. 

Consider yourself lucky.  Pray that it remains that way.  As I said earlier, bragging about this is not cool or appreciated.  

[jeff_14]

1 minute ago, Ed Mack said:

Consider yourself lucky.  Pray that it remains that way.  As I said earlier, bragging about this is not cool or appreciated.  

This is not bragging, these are facts shared to advocate for best practices. There is no bragging about a pandemic 

[lobo1969]

26 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:

 

Fortunately for you, Canada is a large country with a population much smaller than the US.  I would expect numbers to be much smaller.  I also don't think you have hot spots like we have with large asian populations that could have been seeded by travelers.  Don't brag about it, it's not really cool.

Vancouver, Toronto, more... but you would do well to NOT finger point at asian populations, that is a slippery slope right now. And he is not bragging,  just stating some facts.

[fuzzy_bricks]

Canadians rollin' deep today!

[jeff_14]

Let me add this so there’s no misinterpretation. Americans and Canadians come from the same family of nations and laws with our intertwined history. We’re more than neighbours, closer to family. We may wonder about some of each other’s seemingly odd cultural and policy choices but at the end of the day we want the best for each other. For the first time ever the world’s longest undefended border is closed. Everyone is unnerved but most are trying to cut through the noise and support each other. We take no delight in observing the dangers presented by anyone endorsing snake oil from the President down to the lowest reseller scum (Me). Dangerous policies need to be called out no different than the fools partying on beaches or coughing in seniors’ faces. There are things that reasonable people can disagree on and there are clear and present dangers to people’s safety. It’s an unfortunate reality that the leader of the free world cannot rise above his base instincts as previous presidents have and we are all concerned about the implications about that. This isn’t about “‘my country is better than yours”. That’s what the Olympics that we just got delayed is for. You’re welcome eh. Cheers 

[Ed Mack]

 

15 minutes ago, lobo1969 said:

Vancouver, Toronto, more... but you would do well to NOT finger point at asian populations, that is a slippery slope right now. And he is not bragging,  just stating some facts.

Noted...This is not about race, but where it came from.  Just stating facts as you say.  Not finger pointing at all.  It is well known that many travelers from Asia came back into the US because of the holidays.  Even Italy was seeded with the infection because many Chinese textile merchants were in Milan for "Fashion Week."  Many Americans seeded our own country from visits to Italy.  The virus doesn't have a nationality or race.

As I said earlier, I pray that Canada continues to avoid issues like we are having now.  I believe things here could and should have been handled better, but we have a very disfunctional government right now and that has hurt us all.  

[Ed Mack]

7 minutes ago, jeff_14 said:

Let me add this so there’s no misinterpretation. Americans and Canadians come from the same family of nations and laws with our intertwined history. We’re more than neighbours, closer to family. We may wonder about some of each other’s seemingly odd cultural and policy choices but at the end of the day we want the best for each other. For the first time ever the world’s longest undefended border is closed. Everyone is unnerved but most are trying to cut through the noise and support each other. We take no delight in observing the dangers presented by anyone endorsing snake oil from the President down to the lowest reseller scum (Me). Dangerous policies need to be called out no different than the fools partying on beaches or coughing in seniors’ faces. There are things that reasonable people can disagree on and there are clear and present dangers to people’s safety. It’s an unfortunate reality that the leader of the free world cannot rise above his base instincts as previous presidents have and we are all concerned about the implications about that. This isn’t about “‘my country is better than yours”. That’s what the Olympics that we just got delayed is for. You’re welcome eh. Cheers 

Well, his base instincts got him to the position that he is in.  Is he annoying, nasty, unprofessional, unpresidential and self serving at times?  Sure.  Do most Americans support or approve of his behavior? Probably not.  There are times when I say, "What the f*ck are you talking about?" and wish he would just shut the Hell up.  But at the end of the day, the country has done pretty well under his presidency IMO up to this virus.  He has not been treated fairly at all by most media and they skew or manipulate most stories related to him.  Believe me, he doesn't help himself and gives them plenty of ammunition.

And yes, Canada and the US are kindred countries.  I am glad that Canada is handling this properly, because we might need your help to deal with issues here.  But fault lies with many here in the US and other countries.  We are having a hard time approving a stimulus in Congress because people want to add crazy BS to the package like solar energy credits, airplane emission levels, and other things that have no bearing on helping American workers and small businesses that are closed and/or struggling.

America will overcome, despite of the president and politicians.  The nurses, doctors and scientists will battle on the front lines.  American ingenuity and factories will help on the back end.  I wish you well...

[jeff_14]

7 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:

Well, his base instincts got him to the position that he is in.  Is he annoying, nasty, unprofessional, unpresidential and self serving at times?  Sure.  Do most Americans support or approve of his behavior? Probably not.  There are times when I say, "What the f*ck are you talking about?" and wish he would just shut the Hell up.  But at the end of the day, the country has done pretty well under his presidency IMO up to this virus.  He has not been treated fairly at all by most media and they skew or manipulate most stories related to him.  Believe me, he doesn't help himself and gives them plenty of ammunition.

And yes, Canada and the US are kindred countries.  I am glad that Canada is handling this properly, because we might need your help to deal with issues here.  But fault lies with many here in the US and other countries.  We are having a hard time approving a stimulus in Congress because people want to add crazy BS to the package like solar energy credits, airplane emission levels, and other things that have no bearing on helping American workers and small businesses that are closed and/or struggling.

America will overcome, despite of the president and politicians.  The nurses, doctors and scientists will battle on the front lines.  American ingenuity and factories will help on the back end.  I wish you well...

We’re having a similar discussion up here as our very expensive oil industry is basically toast between the past 5 years of falling prices amplified by COVID and the Saudi-Russian price war now. It’s been the case for some time now that we have more green energy jobs than oil and gas jobs and it doesn’t look like oil will ever be viable again up here, which is why when people are being laid off in the thousands that it makes sense to steer them towards more sustainable alternatives. We don’t want to throw good money after bad propping up a perennially doomed industry when we know other ones need people. One smart proposal that is going through up here is to hire a lot of these workers to clean up the thousands of abandoned and dirty wells left behind. Some creative bold actions are called for to transition people to jobs that will last and keep the unemployment rate down. This is what happened during the New Deal and we’re likely facing a calamity worse than that. The right has exploited past crises to implement their policies. This is little different coming from the left, and should be seriously considered for the likelihood of success. 

[Ed Mack]

2 minutes ago, jeff_14 said:

We’re having a similar discussion up here as our very expensive oil industry is basically toast between the past 5 years of falling prices amplified by COVID and the Saudi-Russian price war now. It’s been the case for some time now that we have more green energy jobs than oil and gas jobs and it doesn’t look like oil will ever be viable again up here, which is why when people are being laid off in the thousands that it makes sense to steer them towards more sustainable alternatives. We don’t want to throw good money after bad propping up a perennially doomed industry when we know other ones need people. One smart proposal that is going through up here is to hire a lot of these workers to clean up the thousands of abandoned and dirty wells left behind. Some creative bold actions are called for to transition people to jobs that will last and keep the unemployment rate down. This is what happened during the New Deal and we’re likely facing a calamity worse than that. The right has exploited past crises to implement their policies. This is little different coming from the left, and should be seriously considered for the likelihood of success. 

For one thing, I hope the damn cruise industry sinks....LOL

[junkrigger]

Or maybe this has something to do with why the relief bill has been held up. Secrecy until after the election. Hmm, is this what's best for our fellow Americans.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/trump-on-usd500-billion-slush-fund-ill-be-the-oversight.html

[Phil B]

Well, his base instincts got him to the position that he is in.  Is he annoying, nasty, unprofessional, unpresidential and self serving at times?  Sure.  Do most Americans support or approve of his behavior? Probably not.  There are times when I say, "What the f*ck are you talking about?" and wish he would just shut the Hell up.  But at the end of the day, the country has done pretty well under his presidency IMO up to this virus.  He has not been treated fairly at all by most media and they skew or manipulate most stories related to him.  Believe me, he doesn't help himself and gives them plenty of ammunition.
And yes, Canada and the US are kindred countries.  I am glad that Canada is handling this properly, because we might need your help to deal with issues here.  But fault lies with many here in the US and other countries.  We are having a hard time approving a stimulus in Congress because people want to add crazy BS to the package like solar energy credits, airplane emission levels, and other things that have no bearing on helping American workers and small businesses that are closed and/or struggling.
America will overcome, despite of the president and politicians.  The nurses, doctors and scientists will battle on the front lines.  American ingenuity and factories will help on the back end.  I wish you well...

FWIW the stimulus bill is being held up because unlike previous stimulus measures (e.g. TARP) where there was a clear bi-partisan oversight committee over the funds, the current plan puts all the oversight on one individual, the President. This makes the whole deal a no-go for the opposition.

[Ed Mack]

17 minutes ago, junkrigger said:

Or maybe this has something to do with why the relief bill has been held up. Secrecy until after the election. Hmm, is this what's best for our fellow Americans.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/trump-on-usd500-billion-slush-fund-ill-be-the-oversight.html

I agree with this.  This money should be spent on regular Americans and small businesses.  If not, this 500 billion should be divided up by a bi-partisan group.

[Ed Mack]

3 minutes ago, Phil B said:

FWIW the stimulus bill is being held up because unlike previous stimulus measures (e.g. TARP) where there was a clear bi-partisan oversight committee over the funds, the current plan puts all the oversight on one individual, the President. This makes the whole deal a no-go for the opposition.

Yes, I agree.  But there is some ridiculous crap in there as well.  

[jaisonline]

1 hour ago, Ed Mack said:

Yes, I agree.  But there is some ridiculous crap in there as well.  

tons of crap.  "...restrict airlines' carbon emissions, pay off billions in student loan debt, encourage federal agencies to employ "minority banks," bailout the U.S. Postal Service and even fund New York City's John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts...discounted mobile phone service for low-income consumers...solar energy incentives".

basically , so much crap that has nothing to w/ combating COVID-19.

[NIevo]

5 hours ago, jeff_14 said:

I didn’t realize high school teacher Trudeau ran the country back then.

Here’s how a leader behaves:

“We are continuing, in Canada, to base our decisions and our recommendations and our guidelines to Canadians on science,” Trudeau said.

“Our priority is keeping Canadians alive and healthy and that is what we will continue to focus on in Canada.”

Why are you so concerned about us and our President?  You seem to have a bit of an unhealthy infatuation with trying to degrade him?