COVID-19 / Coronavirus Discussion

[Loghamel]

2 minutes ago, lodibricks said:

And yet we were 99% survival rate before we had a vaccine. Just sayin'.

Correct.  So if we did nothing, only  3.3 million people would die.  Not too shabby.  Just a 9/11 event every single day for over 3 years.

[Lordoflego]

5 minutes ago, Loghamel said:

Correct.  So if we did nothing, only  3.3 million people would die.  Not too shabby.  Just a 9/11 event every single day for over 3 years.

9/11 every day? 
but (I I’m just trying to understand) ….but to say that it would be 3 million dead a day….out of? Out of US population? So again, to say that we would have that many dead, does it mean that entire population would have to get the virus today? And tomorrow, that group would not qualify anymore right? Because the alive remainder of the population would have immunity now right? 
so to say that if we would do nothing, we would have 3+ million people dead a day, that’s only if we find a new population of 300+ million people daily right? 
if so, then your statement is not correct or misleading, but that’s not my point, just trying to understand. Thank you. 

[Loghamel]

3 hours ago, iahawks550 said:

DEMANDING!!!!!!!!!!

I just know (anecdotally) that of the people I know who have passed away from Covid in the last six months, it's all been Delta. Of the people I know with confirmed Omicron, it's been bad flu-like syptoms for those unvaccinated and sniffles for those that have been. Omicron doesn't affect the lungs as much, or at least what I've read. I was wondering if it was the case nationwide.

It makes sense there are more fatalities nationwide but a much smaller fatality rate.

 

That's what I'm seeing as well.  Damn near my entire extended family has tested positive in the past couple of months.   A few of them lost taste/smell.  None required a hospital trip.  Hopefully, this Omicron variant is what we needed to get Corona antibodies present in most of the population.

[Loghamel]

5 minutes ago, Lordoflego said:

9/11 every day? 
but (I I’m just trying to understand) ….but to say that it would be 3 million dead a day….out of? Out of US population? So again, to say that we would have that many dead, does it mean that entire population would have to get the virus today? And tomorrow, that group would not qualify anymore right? Because the alive remainder of the population would have immunity now right? 
so to say that if we would do nothing, we would have 3+ million people dead a day, that’s only if we find a new population of 300+ million people daily right? 
if so, then your statement is not correct or misleading, but that’s not my point, just trying to understand. Thank you. 

It would be roughly 2997 deaths per day, for a total of 3.3 million dead in just over 3 years or 1% of 329+ million people.  3.3 million is 1% of 330 million.  Doesn't matter when one gets it.  The population is still 330 million people.  One could argue there would be more deaths than that because the first time those 330 million people were infected, 3.3 million people would die.  That's not accounting for getting it more than once.  The death rate of people getting it twice would have to be zero for there to be no more deaths and we know that's not the case.  You know, maths?

Edited February 18, 2022 by Loghamel
Snarky comment

[Lordoflego]

4 minutes ago, Loghamel said:

It would be roughly 2997 deaths per day, for a total of 3.3 million dead in just over 3 years or 1% of 329+ million people.  3.3 million is 1% of 330 million.  Doesn't matter when one gets it.  The population is still 330 million people.  One could argue there would be more deaths than that because the first time those 330 million people were infected, 3.3 million people would die.  That's not accounting for getting it more than once.  The death rate of people getting it twice would have to be zero for there to be no more deaths and we know that's not the case.  You know, maths?

Got it. I just can’t read right. And my dumb a$$ can’t count either. By accident I added some zeros to 9/11 deaths. 

And no, I don’t know math, that’s why I’m always gonna ask you 

[Loghamel]

Just now, Lordoflego said:

Got it. I just can’t read right. And my dumb a$$ can’t count either. By accident I added some zeros to 9/11 deaths. 

I figured.  Didn't feel the need to correct.  I could tell what had happened.

[Lordoflego]

6 minutes ago, Loghamel said:

I figured.  Didn't feel the need to correct.  I could tell what had happened.

What can I say, I finished work, it’s Friday, and yes, I started the weekend already! 

[lodibricks]

44 minutes ago, Loghamel said:

Correct.  So if we did nothing, only  3.3 million people would die.  Not too shabby.  Just a 9/11 event every single day for over 3 years.

That came off worse than intended, maybe so, assuming the variants stayed as bad as they were. Like you were saying, hopefully those remaining get Omicron or weaker variants for the antibodies.
 

Edited February 18, 2022 by lodibricks

[dennugsmello]

12 minutes ago, Loghamel said:

 Hopefully, this Omicron variant is what we needed to get Corona antibodies present in most of the population.

It already has. 

But antibodies are just one component of immunity. Its also, more importantly, T and B cell recognition. T-cell protection will end up being the long term weapon against serious harm. 

Over the past two years, Covid19 has followed a predictable path for what we expect from virus mutations. Something I've been saying the entire time with loads of pushback on line and in real life. I think many refused to accept normal viral patterns as a templet for prediction and clung to this crazy idea that mutation=bad, even when viral precedent tells us otherwise. 

We were never going to vaccinate the world. An impossible task. And predictably, a very contagious, milder, vaccine evading version would emerge and infect the globe. This path was almost a certainty.  An obvious outcome to anyone who uses their own brain instead of the media to guide them.

[vincevaughn]

7 hours ago, BricksBrotha said:

No one said to wrap yourself in a bubble how dramatic and also just because your example of a car accident is true, do we just get behind the wheel and throw caution to the wind? 

Just because you have acknowledged life's fragility and chance, doesn't mean one still cant be cautious.

Just because someone can randomly get in a tragic car accident, by your logic, they should stop wearing their seat belt? Or stop checking their mirrors before changing lanes?   

Compared to the adrenaline junkies I work with, I am very cautious.  The point I was trying to make is that it is up to everyone what their personal threshold for safety is and that even if you do everything "right" you still might end up that way.  I am a perfectly healthy 35 year old with no pre-existing conditions.  My chances of death from covid are tiny! I still weighed the pros and cons and contrasted it with my religious faith and choose not to get the shot.  I consciously accepted that risk.....and I am well aware I took a somewhat increased risk.

Point is its up to the individual.  If you want to be an idiot and not wear a seatbelt go for it.  I wear mine, but I support the rights of others to choose not to.  Because as an autocross and sports car enthusiast I understand the protection it provides and not wearing one is outside my safety zone.

[Mark Twain]

It already has. 
But antibodies are just one component of immunity. Its also, more importantly, T and B cell recognition. T-cell protection will end up being the long term weapon against serious harm. 
Over the past two years, Covid19 has followed a predictable path for what we expect from virus mutations. Something I've been saying the entire time with loads of pushback on line and in real life. I think many refused to accept normal viral patterns as a templet for prediction and clung to this crazy idea that mutation=bad, even when viral precedent tells us otherwise. 
We were never going to vaccinate the world. An impossible task. And predictably, a very contagious, milder, vaccine evading version would emerge and infect the globe. This path was almost a certainty.  An obvious outcome to anyone who uses their own brain instead of the media to guide them.

It’s certainly aided in broadening immunity but we’re seeing people on their second or third infection over the past 18-24 months and it’s clear vaccination or natural immunity isn’t enough to stop infection. As the virus continues to evolve into a milder but more contagious form it will likely continue to cause elevated hospitalizations and deaths among the unvaccinated and those with waning immunity. I think some of the best case scenarios I’ve read predict the virus causing x3-x5 the annual number of deaths we see from flu each year by 2024 or 2025. That alone is staggering.


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[fuzzy_bricks]

2 hours ago, dennugsmello said:

It basically has. We are in the end stage. 

Have I won our friendly bet yet? Looks like my prediction is ahead of schedule. 

I thought someone had made a bet.  I remember thinking you were a little early on prediction, but you're right, it's happening faster than that.

I guess they have to give us a little bit of time, to hopefully forget, before they start campaigning for the midterms.

[xeeeej]

1 hour ago, vincevaughn said:

Compared to the adrenaline junkies I work with, I am very cautious.  The point I was trying to make is that it is up to everyone what their personal threshold for safety is and that even if you do everything "right" you still might end up that way.  I am a perfectly healthy 35 year old with no pre-existing conditions.  My chances of death from covid are tiny! I still weighed the pros and cons and contrasted it with my religious faith and choose not to get the shot.  I consciously accepted that risk.....and I am well aware I took a somewhat increased risk.

Point is its up to the individual.  If you want to be an idiot and not wear a seatbelt go for it.  I wear mine, but I support the rights of others to choose not to.  Because as an autocross and sports car enthusiast I understand the protection it provides and not wearing one is outside my safety zone.

What religious belief stands opposed to synthetic laboratory RNA?

[dennugsmello]

1 hour ago, Mark Twain said:

As the virus continues to evolve into a milder but more contagious form it will likely continue to cause elevated hospitalizations and deaths among the unvaccinated and those with waning immunity. 

You are completely leaving out the obvious fact of catch and recovered unvaccinated. Their long term protection is the same as the vaccinated. Every unvaccinated person will gain natural protection upon recovery. Yes you may catch it again and again but your symptoms will be milder and odds of hospitalization will be vastly lessened. The unvaccinated will become the vaccinated naturally and very quickly.

[exciter1]

2 hours ago, xeeeej said:

What religious belief stands opposed to synthetic laboratory RNA?

I’ve seen some stating the use of stem cells during the course of research, testing, and development as a reason. I’m sure there are other deeper definitions in certain religions.  Some have been debunked, depending on who’s reporting.

https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article255509366.html

[Mark Twain]

You are completely leaving out the obvious fact of catch and recovered unvaccinated. Their long term protection is the same as the vaccinated. Every unvaccinated person will gain natural protection upon recovery. Yes you may catch it again and again but your symptoms will be milder and odds of hospitalization will be vastly lessened. The unvaccinated will become the vaccinated naturally and very quickly.

Sadly that’s not going to ever be the case for the elderly and immune compromised , which will continue to be the population who suffers the most from severe versions of Covid, especially since Omicron showed us that vaccines and natural immunity don’t stop infection. Just like with annual flu deaths, we will always have populations that remain highly vulnerable to disease and Omicron and the subsequent waves aren’t going to stop that through infection and natural immunity.


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[vincevaughn]

5 hours ago, xeeeej said:

What religious belief stands opposed to synthetic laboratory RNA?

I have seen a few different reasons.  My general take is that it doesn't matter the reason, as a persons religious faith is their own.  That is their business, and all that should be required is sincerity and in good faith.  In other words don't use it lightly or deceptively.

In my case, specifically, I classify it as genetic modification.  I prefer the old way of vaccination, where you expose your body and let it naturally learn to fight.  There is a traditional COVID vaccine on the horizon called Novavax and I'll be getting that as soon as I am able.  But our bodies are temples made in the image of God and there are things we should not meddle in.  I have no doubt, that it is made with the best of intentions and its a very light example of this.  However, the line must be drawn on a personal level of what we deem acceptable for our own bodies.  I feel we are opening a door here.... and it will lead to future medicine with extreme cosmetic and performance body mods, Your very nature will be modded and patched like software and your wallet will determine your children's abilities and traits.

Not standing in the way of these things as people obviously want it, just it's not for me and I want to be left alone to live my life according to my convictions.

[BricksBrotha]

16 hours ago, dennugsmello said:

Yes you may catch it again and again but your symptoms will be milder and odds of hospitalization will be vastly lessened. The unvaccinated will become the vaccinated naturally and very quickly.

Do you have any data to base this claim or is it more of a gut feeling? I am very interested. Especially your claim about reinfections. 

 

20 hours ago, dennugsmello said:

It basically has. We are in the end stage. 

Have I won our friendly bet yet? Looks like my prediction is ahead of schedule. 

Looking back now, I knew it would be impossible to agree on terms of said bet. So very happy we decided to not wager anything. 

To you things are great and almost back to normal!  I am still dealing with our states highest death rates and cases, masks and social distancing are in place, but the loud minority are starting to protest the mandates. Most countries still require a negative test or quarantine and masks.   There has been talk about work from home staying for entire 2022 but will re-evaluate the numbers come mid-summer/fall.  So for me, not so much.

 

11 hours ago, vincevaughn said:

In my case, specifically, I classify it as genetic modification..........But our bodies are temples made in the image of God and there are things we should not meddle in. 

So then by your logic you must not eat corn, bananas, strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, grapes, carrots, avocados, watermelon, almonds, potatoes, peas, egg plant, peanuts, etc the list goes on and on and on. 

I am just trying to clarify where your religious exemption draws the line in genetic modification? 

Unless of course you have access to ancient seed banks and are growing and eating corn like this?

or carrots like these?

 or egg plant like these?

or bananas like this?

 

 

 

11 hours ago, vincevaughn said:

 your wallet will determine your children's abilities and traits.

Sadly, we're already there.

[vincevaughn]

6 hours ago, BricksBrotha said:

So then by your logic you must not eat corn, bananas, strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, grapes, carrots, avocados, watermelon, almonds, potatoes, peas, egg plant, peanuts, etc the list goes on and on and on. 

I am just trying to clarify where your religious exemption draws the line in genetic modification? 

Unless of course you have access to ancient seed banks and are growing and eating corn like this?

No I am fine with that....we are given dominion over this planet and its animals to do as we will......a plant isn't made in the image of God.

Any other questions you want answers too?

 

[Jbad87]

3 hours ago, vincevaughn said:

a plant isn't made in the image of God.

[CsabaLazlo]

On 2/18/2022 at 11:59 PM, vincevaughn said:

Point is its up to the individual.  If you want to be an idiot and not wear a seatbelt go for it.  I wear mine, but I support the rights of others to choose not to.  Because as an autocross and sports car enthusiast I understand the protection it provides and not wearing one is outside my safety zone.

As with not vaccinating, not wearing a seat belt affects others. If you don't wear one your body can turn into a missile.

 

[BricksBrotha]

 

19 hours ago, vincevaughn said:

No I am fine with that....we are given dominion over this planet and its animals to do as we will......a plant isn't made in the image of God.

Any other questions you want answers too?

 

thank you i was genuinely interested in your ‘logic’. since you offered, out of the 5000+ gods we humans have established, which god are you referring to? Kinda sounds like old testament? or is it the new testament you prefer?

If i’ve got this straight, you are basing life decisions and medical advice on a book(s) that also claims the earth stopped rotating at one point as well as the sun standing still. (Joshua 10:12-14) Being in autocross, you should recognize the value of physics. And Physics is clear on this one. if the earth ever stopped for even a second, all people, animals, rocks, topsoil, trees, buildings and so on would be swept away into the atmosphere.

And of course, everybody except a biblical author knows that bats are not birds nor can leprosy be cured by sprinkling the blood of birds seven times throughout the house. (leviticus 14:49-53)

And those are only a few examples of over 200,000-400,000 contradictions/inaccuracies contained in said books. Conveiently enough, which were written/rewritten/retold during a very dark period in human history(frequent genocide, poverty, famine, mass enslavement, mass illiteracy).

So in short, yes, I support people’s own decision to get vaccinated.  But only when that decision is based on medical concerns.

Because to me, public health is of a greater concern than that of a persons religious orientation.

[bigboy61]

27 minutes ago, BricksBrotha said:

thank you i was genuinely interested in your ‘logic’. since you offered, out of the 5000+ gods we humans have established, which god are you referring to? Kinda sounds like old testament? or is it the new testament you prefer?

They are the same God. The God of the OT is the God of the NT. 

[BricksBrotha]

7 minutes ago, bigboy61 said:

They are the same God. The God of the OT is the God of the NT. 

Aren't their people who only follow OT, some only follow NT and others follow both?  Almost sounds like 3 separate religions but one God?

[BricksBrotha]

Wait I might have answered my own question, so OT=Jewish and NT=Christians?