COVID-19 / Coronavirus Discussion

[elmaslıefendi]

38 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

Since when do you need any field training to sound like an expert on the internet ??

[BricksBrotha]

Meanwhile, actual health professionals are being ignored, argued with even threatened on a daily basis. 😷

[Mathew]

 

[keymomachine]

Just a bunch of cups with an interdisciplinary BS from a liberal arts college (and a weirdly large number of friends with Doctorates)

[redcell]

Meanwhile, actual health professionals are being ignored, argued with even threatened on a daily basis. 

Who needs advice from people who actually know what they're talking about when you have conspiracy theories and whatever else makes sense to you to guide you?

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Since when do you need any field training to sound like an expert on the internet ??

Just pointing out the obvious lest anyone take this inane drivel seriously.

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[keymomachine]

2 minutes ago, Mathew said:

 

 

27 minutes ago, Mathew said:

 

How is believing that the government is trying to control you with fear appreciably different from a fear of the government trying to control you with fear?

Trace Dominguez here has got some nice Lego behind him

[SpaceFan9]

I work in health care, but I'm not an MD and don't work with infectious diseases.  My job includes data collection and analysis, though.

The challenge in all of this is that Truth is hard to discern.  There are multiple competing studies and bad actors on both sides use them to spread lies.

For example, the most recent data out of Israel can be read two ways.  One read is that vax breakthroughs are over-running the hospitals.  But a different read, which views the data (correctly) as bi-modal (Simpon's paradox pic from here)

shows the vax is quite effective: https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated

Which brings me to the graphic Loghamel posted.  The data in the graphic doesn't match what I'm seeing in other places, and it reeks of propaganda.  For one, I believe some of the dots on the graphic are double or triple counted.  Are the ICU and ventilator 'dots' also in the total population group on the left?  I suspect they are.  The visual effect is to make the percentage of unvaxxed much larger than it is.  A more truthful way to visualize the data would be to use a different colored background for the different stages of care.  But more importantly, as the Israel data shows, with no age demographic information included the conclusion is suspect.

I think this points to why the disagreement is so heated.  Stats are hard and the propaganda is thick.

I apologize in advance for another post-and-run.  Someday, I'll have time for a proper dialog.
 

 

[Mathew]

5 minutes ago, keymomachine said:

 

How is believing that the government is trying to control you with fear appreciably different from a fear of the government trying to control you with fear?

Be honest, you didn’t watch the video did you? 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Mathew

[spener90]

9 minutes ago, SpaceFan9 said:

Stats are hard

Stats and the language used regarding them can sometimes escalate things unnecessarily. If your odds of having something occur at a certain point are 0.001% and after a certain event they become 0.002%, one could say your odds of this thing occurring effectively doubles. This is how you turn a pointless statistic into clickbait.

[Darth_Raichu]

18 minutes ago, keymomachine said:

 

How is believing that the government is trying to control you with fear appreciably different from a fear of the government trying to control you with fear?

Trace Dominguez here has got some nice Lego behind him

As the video pointed out, Cognitive bias explains half of Twitter & Facebook.  I let you pick which half

If you want to be honest, it does explain the majority of posts on this thread.  As @redcell pointed out:

3 hours ago, redcell said:

How many people opining here have actual training in medicine?

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[elmaslıefendi]

1 minute ago, Darth_Raichu said:

If you want to be honest, it does explain the majority of posts on this thread.  As @redcell pointed out:

 

You don't have to be a chef to find out if the food tastes good. You have taste buds.

You don't have to be a doctor to find out if the measures taken are appropriate. You have data.

And it's plenty of that, released by the usual "official" sources. Based on that, there's lots of criticism, coming from medical personnel & the public, it's just that communication is flawed because the media directs the mass opinion.

Most doctors who have an opposing view don't share it, because they fear their whole career & everything they worked for could be destroyed in a matter of days. Two articles mocking them & it's done, close your office or change your identity please.

 

[keymomachine]

Why are 80% of your posts edited?Yup

I actually did watch some of it, but looked into the associated content creator: Academy of Ideas and it's run by two anonymous Canadians and you can pay them money and they will let you see their ideas, which sounds like a cult. If you're not willing to even put your name on a thing but ask money for it, that's sketchy. Anyways, the Dunning-Kreuger video from the same channel was linked in the sidebar and I felt it was more relevant to the conversation.

12 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

As the video pointed out, Cognitive bias explains half of Twitter & Facebook.

[dennugsmello]

51 minutes ago, Mathew said:

Be honest, you didn’t watch the video did you? 

The video is excellent. Everyone should seriously give it a watch. Great normie tier content to dip your toes beyond the superficial layers. 
 

However, it only reveals partial truths and intentionally leaves out much of the deeper meat by design. It’s a gate keeper channel and the sub and view count reflects that. 

[Mathew]

15 minutes ago, keymomachine said:

I actually did watch some of it, but looked into the associated content creator: Academy of Ideas and 

Cult?  Lol.  You didn’t bother to watch more than a few seconds because you can’t comprehend anything outside of comfort zone. You’d rather hide in a birdcage with your ineffective cloth mask on. Your collective (ie Borg) mind is incapable of handling anything outside of what you’ve been programmed to obey. Pathetic.  

[Mathew]

 Poor Vernie requires programming as well

 

 

[keymomachine]

6 minutes ago, Mathew said:

Cult?  Lol.  You didn’t bother to watch more than a few seconds because you can’t comprehend anything outside of comfort zone. You’d rather hide in a birdcage with your ineffective cloth mask on. Your collective (ie Borg) mind is incapable of handling anything outside of what you’ve been programmed to obey. Pathetic.  

Ahh, the true mark of a great mind: Ad hominem attacks. I am well and truly defeated.

[redghostx]

I took a day off from this thread and feel like I got Covid just from reading through everything, or I became immune. I forget what I'm supposed to believe; someone please tell me.

Carry on.

Yay LEGO!

[bigboy61]

23 minutes ago, redghostx said:

I took a day off from this thread and feel like I got Covid just from reading through everything, or I became immune. 
 

This thread is toxic (on both sides), and I really don't see much value in it anymore. Am I the only one who would like to see this thread closed?

[Mark Twain]

How many people opining here have actual training in medicine?

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I’ve informed every woman I’ve dated that I’m a board certified gynecologist who is taking a break so there’s no reason for them to call an office that I don’t work for.




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[Alpinemaps]

This thread is toxic (on both sides), and I really don't see much value in it anymore. Am I the only one who would like to see this thread closed?

Not a bad idea. Everything isn’t awesome in this thread right now.

Let’s take the weekend to just relax and not worry about this thread.

If another mod wants to reopen, go right ahead. But I’m closing it until someone else wants to open it back up.

[elmaslıefendi]

@first mod who sees this: please move this post to locked Covid-19 thread. Thank you.

I know the thread is locked & me posting here isn't exactly appropriate, it's just this one time, because it seems really important. Sorry. This article published by Science concerning Israel's state, the world's vaccine pioneer, is just so baffling that I had to share it.

https://www.science.org/content/article/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delt

Relevant passages (but just read the whole article):

"Israel has among the world’s highest levels of vaccination for COVID-19, with 78% of those 12 and older fully vaccinated, the vast majority with the Pfizer vaccine. Yet the country is now logging one of the world’s highest infection rates, with nearly 650 new cases daily per million people. More than half are in fully vaccinated people, underscoring the extraordinary transmissibility of the Delta variant and stoking concerns that the benefits of vaccination ebb over time."

"Yet boosters are unlikely to tame a Delta surge on their own, says Dvir Aran, a biomedical data scientist at Technion. In Israel, the current surge is so steep that “even if you get two-thirds of those 60-plus [boosted], it’s just gonna give us another week, maybe 2 weeks until our hospitals are flooded.”

"What is clear is that “breakthrough” cases are not the rare events the term implies. As of 15 August, 514 Israelis were hospitalized with severe or critical COVID-19, a 31% increase from just 4 days earlier. Of the 514, 59% were fully vaccinated. Of the vaccinated, 87% were 60 or older. “There are so many breakthrough infections that they dominate and most of the hospitalized patients are actually vaccinated,” says Uri Shalit, a bioinformatician at the Israel Institute of Technology (Technion) who has consulted on COVID-19 for the government."

[Pseudoty]

1 hour ago, elmaslıefendi said:

because it seems really important.

What is so important about a month old article, not a peer reviewed scientific study, written by someone with a background in politics. I work with Covid patients everyday and try to stay out of the Covid thread and come to BPer for an escape. There is a reason the Covid thread is locked once again so can we all just please move on. Yes it is great that we have an international community here to discuss things like this but there are plenty of other online forums for Covid discussion. 
 

Now can we all just get back to posting about coins, mailboxes and hot water heaters like this site was intended for. 

[ravenb99]

9 hours ago, Pseudoty said:

What is so important about a month old article, not a peer reviewed scientific study, written by someone with a background in politics. I work with Covid patients everyday and try to stay out of the Covid thread and come to BPer for an escape. There is a reason the Covid thread is locked once again so can we all just please move on. Yes it is great that we have an international community here to discuss things like this but there are plenty of other online forums for Covid discussion. 
 

Now can we all just get back to posting about coins, mailboxes and hot water heaters like this site was intended for. 

don't forget about referencing the thumb's advanced age repeatedly...

[KvHulk]

12 hours ago, elmaslıefendi said:

@first mod who sees this: please move this post to locked Covid-19 thread. Thank you.

I know the thread is locked & me posting here isn't exactly appropriate, it's just this one time, because it seems really important. Sorry. This article published by Science concerning Israel's state, the world's vaccine pioneer, is just so baffling that I had to share it.

https://www.science.org/content/article/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delt

Relevant passages (but just read the whole article):

"Israel has among the world’s highest levels of vaccination for COVID-19, with 78% of those 12 and older fully vaccinated, the vast majority with the Pfizer vaccine. Yet the country is now logging one of the world’s highest infection rates, with nearly 650 new cases daily per million people. More than half are in fully vaccinated people, underscoring the extraordinary transmissibility of the Delta variant and stoking concerns that the benefits of vaccination ebb over time."

"Yet boosters are unlikely to tame a Delta surge on their own, says Dvir Aran, a biomedical data scientist at Technion. In Israel, the current surge is so steep that “even if you get two-thirds of those 60-plus [boosted], it’s just gonna give us another week, maybe 2 weeks until our hospitals are flooded.”

"What is clear is that “breakthrough” cases are not the rare events the term implies. As of 15 August, 514 Israelis were hospitalized with severe or critical COVID-19, a 31% increase from just 4 days earlier. Of the 514, 59% were fully vaccinated. Of the vaccinated, 87% were 60 or older. “There are so many breakthrough infections that they dominate and most of the hospitalized patients are actually vaccinated,” says Uri Shalit, a bioinformatician at the Israel Institute of Technology (Technion) who has consulted on COVID-19 for the government."

 

[CosmicSpeed]

Bros, Covid is old news. Nipah is the new "IN" virus

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/09/12/1035571714/why-the-world-should-be-more-than-a-bit-worried-about-indias-nipah-virus-outbrea