COVID-19 / Coronavirus Discussion

[KvHulk]

8 hours ago, Mathew said:

So you like to get high and you have a baby. What am I missing?

Do you wake up a low life or do you slowly work your way to it?

And here's your pop tart. Wrapped in foil, just like you.

Edited August 21, 2021 by KvHulk

[Mark Twain]

A few things that are getting lost in this particular thread that I believe are crucial since the situation is changing rapidly. Cases are soaring. Many states in the south have opened field hospitals and certain areas have already exceeded capacity and are discussing using battlefield triage to parse out care because resources and staff are critically low.

This is reality, not a philosophical debate about personal freedoms, conspiracy theories, or your personal beliefs about who made the virus, if the virus is real, if all these people dying in overcrowded ICUs are sick with something else.

The Pfizer vaccine is expected to receive full approval next week from the FDA:https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/20/fda-approval-pfizer-covid-shot-506472

Most insurance providers have dropped or will drop waivers for Covid Hospitalizations. Average hospitalization cost is north of $40,000, with ICU costs north of $100,000: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/most-private-insurers-are-no-longer-waiving-cost-sharing-for-covid-19-treatment/

Third round of booster shots are undergoing authorization and will begin mid-September for those who had their second shot of an MRNA vaccine 8 months ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/us/politics/booster-shots.html

Monoclonal antibodies are effective in preventing hospitalizations in many cases, if taken early: https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/anti-sars-cov-2-antibody-products/anti-sars-cov-2-monoclonal-antibodies/

Masking remains an effective deterrent in public spaces: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/delta-variant-mask-guidance/

 

[BricksBrotha]

5 hours ago, junkrigger said:

But it seems way more likely to me that the CCP is behind Covid than our own gov

The level of cover up coming out of the CCP was absurd.  It was very troubling but also very informing following all the posts coming out of China over WeChat and Twitter.  And those were only the ones able to get on a VPN.  Just image the amount of censoring that was taking place Dec19-Feb20, and not just on social media. 

 

4 minutes ago, Mark Twain said:

A few things that are getting lost in this particular thread that I believe are crucial since the situation is changing rapidly. Cases are soaring.

I am very nervous of the current fall forecast.  Although the FDA approval is promising, I have a feeling the announcement will only change a very small percentages of minds.  Lines have been drawn, heels dug in.  Paired with with schools bull-dozing ahead for reopening, we are creating a perfect storm. 

[fuzzy_bricks]

12 hours ago, BricksBrotha said:

All great examples and agree also exist in the medical world.  However, deflects from the original analogy.  How would you feel if a Medical professional, say an orthopedic surgeon, showed up to a site and demandwd he wanted studs 30in apart. You pleaded with him telling the structural integrity would be compromised and cause later problems, yet he persisted.  Then, two weeks later after construction was completed, total collapse.  Would you feel bad for him? Would you feel compelled to help him rebuild correctly? 
 

When a client asks for something I have to make sure it's code compliant, setting that aside in your example, I would make sure I got this request in writing and then I would provide a documented response why that's a bad idea.  If they still want to proceed and don't like the end result then I bust out my documentation.  Some people act like they're absolute experts and get offended when the clients don't listen to them, even though they're cutting the check.  My approach is to give you enough rope to hang yourself, after all they are paying.

[BricksBrotha]

  

15 minutes ago, fuzzy_bricks said:

 If they still want to proceed and don't like the end result then I bust out my documentation.  

 If only this could be applied to the medical field. 

[elmaslıefendi]

4 hours ago, redcell said:

As for the rest of what you wrote, I'm not sure what point you were trying to make...maybe that rich guys are gonna do stuff if they don't killed by the mafia first? If so, I would agree.

What I meant is that the evil & super-rich kind does some other stuff, I didn't want to get too specific. I'm certain 97% of the 1% are chill & decent, I'm talking about a certain fraction here.

There are evil people, right? We all agree on that. Or is that considered outlandish nowadays, is everyone a goodie? No, of course not. Evil guys & gals all over the world. Sickos, weirdos, criminals, murderers, whatever. That type often gets caught, because they're usually stupid, they make mistakes & don't have enough dough to get out the mess they created.

Now what is so crazy about the thought that there are evil people, and now hear me out, who are not poor, but instead both smart & influental... what about this combo? Does being filthy rich or influental automatically make a pedophile a saint? If anything, the money & the options make that guy even sicker. This is what I consider to be a very dangerous trend, only criminalizing a certain group in the financial hierarchy & sort of ignoring the other group. I know what you mean with the whole pizzagate thing, but that doesn't rule out the possibility of an existing pedophile ring being run by some billionaires who just happen to be off the map for now. 

Edited August 21, 2021 by elmaslıefendi

[junkrigger]

What I meant is that the evil & super-rich kind does some other stuff, I didn't want to get too specific. I'm certain 97% of the 1% are chill & decent, I'm talking about a certain fraction here.
There are evil people, right? We all agree on that. Or is that considered outlandish nowadays, is everyone a goodie? No, of course not. Evil guys & gals all over the world. Sickos, weirdos, criminals, murderers, whatever. That type often gets caught, because they're usually stupid, they make mistakes & don't have enough dough to get out the mess they created.
Now what is so crazy about the thought that there are evil people, and now hear me out, who are not poor, but instead both smart & influental... what about this combo? Does being filthy rich or influental automatically make a pedophile a saint? If anything, the money & the options make that guy even sicker. This is what I consider to be a very dangerous trend, only criminalizing a certain group in the financial hierarchy & sort of ignoring the other group. I know what you mean with the whole pizzagate thing, but that doesn't rule out the possibility of an existing pedophile ring being run by some billionaires who just happen to be off the map for now. 

Noam Chomsky and I agree with a good deal of this. Luckily as you mentioned probably >95% of folks with the big resources are honorable people and some I imagine even actively use their resources to combat the folks you are rightfully railing against. In a world that allowed Mao, Stalin, Hitler, etc to do the things that they did it’s never going to be perfect, unless you would like to try putting a computer AI in charge and absolutely tracking every person from birth implanted with monitoring chips the AI has access to constantly. I can’t imagine anyone wants that, excerpt perhaps the AI.


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[BricksBrotha]

1 hour ago, junkrigger said:

I can’t imagine anyone wants that, excerpt perhaps the AI.

Speaking of AI, another stock pump from Elon. I wonder if they're able to operate the 'not-a-flamethrower'? 

 

[BricksBrotha]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/radio-host-regretted-vaccine-hesitancy-004349441.html

[iahawks550]

Dying tends to bring life choice regrets. 

[Alpinemaps]

3 minutes ago, iahawks550 said:

Dying tends to bring life choice regrets. 

Leading cause of death is birth.

[SpaceFan9]

On 8/21/2021 at 10:21 AM, Mark Twain said:

A few things that are getting lost in this particular thread that I believe are crucial since the situation is changing rapidly.

 

Many thanks for this.  It truly helps to see a variety of perspectives.

My observations are the following, which I believe to be true and co-exist with the points you raised.

Covid progresses through three stages: viral replication, inflammation, thrombosis. If addressed early when symptoms are mild, it's very treatable.  If it reaches the last stage, blood clots develop in the lungs and other organs and there is very little one can do to reverse the damage.  Preventative treatments such as the Zelenko protocol (Vit D + Zinc + Quercetin + Vit C) and  anti-viral treaments (ivermectin or HCQ) post infection are very effective.  Unfortunately, it's usually at the 3rd stage when a person ends up hospitalized.

I'm thankful that I've been blessed that covid has been gentle on my personal network, and I have deep sympathy for those that haven't been so lucky. I personally know more people that have been injured by the jab than by the virus.  The most severe injury I know personally has thrombosis in the legs, arms, and eyes---this person can't see well enough to drive now, and can't work.  In contrast, everyone I know personally that caught the virus suffered very little.  Those that were on the preventative protocol had little more than the common cold.  Those that were not, recovered within a few days after treatment with anti-virals.

While these are just anecdotes from my personal experience,  there is ample evidence that what I say is true. (https://ivmmeta.com/, https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/08000/ivermectin_for_prevention_and_treatment_of.7.aspx, https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-scientist-says-covid-19-could-be-treated-for-under-1day-675612).  I find the most convincing example in India.  If you recall, a few months ago the country was getting hammered by the Delta variant with no lead time for vaccination relief.  The poorer states introduced ivermectin into the treatment protocol and the wave was done within 3 weeks. (https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/indias-ivermectin-blackout/article_e3db8f46-f942-11eb-9eea-77d5e2519364.html)

Because there are alternatives, I believe the choice to get jabbed or not absolutely involves issues of personal freedom and body autonomy.

I find it criminal that the jab is being coerced when it's impossible to make an informed decision because the long term effects are unknown, and when there is ample evidence that alternative treatments exist and natural immunity is robust.  Yet all of the above is censored by Big Tech / Big Media / Big Government. 

Criminal.

 

 

[dennugsmello]

3 hours ago, BricksBrotha said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/radio-host-regretted-vaccine-hesitancy-004349441.html

I followed Phil Valentines story the entire way. Going to his twitter and seeing thousands of twitter replies and memes cheering on his death was sobering. Never seen anything like that in such high numbers. This lead me elsewhere for more research and have realized thats thousands of people actually want anti-covid vaccine citizens to die and actively root for it. They moralize their behavior saying the target kills people with their vaccine skepticism, but I'm not so sure that is what they really think. They want to see people die, and die for their decision. A satisfaction from another human being death is gained for these people. 

The major fracture has occurred. The opposing sides are now viewing each other as less than human. Once that happens in large numbers the United States as we know it has reached its final phase. 

 

[Alpinemaps]

55 minutes ago, dennugsmello said:

I followed Phil Valentines story the entire way. Going to his twitter and seeing thousands of twitter replies and memes cheering on his death was sobering. Never seen anything like that in such high numbers. This lead me elsewhere for more research and have realized thats thousands of people actually want anti-covid vaccine citizens to die and actively root for it. They moralize their behavior saying the target kills people with their vaccine skepticism, but I'm not so sure that is what they really think. They want to see people die, and die for their decision. A satisfaction from another human being death is gained for these people. 

The major fracture has occurred. The opposing sides are now viewing each other as less than human. Once that happens in large numbers the United States as we know it has reached its final phase. 

 

I'm firmly of the belief that choices have consequences, and that you have to take responsibility for your choices.  So, if someone makes a choice not to take the vaccination; that's their choice.  However, I do NOT believe in judging them for exercise their freedom of choice.  I find that people that seem to be cheering on the consequences of someone's choice, and cheering them literally to death, to be morally bankrupt.

[gmpirate]

53 minutes ago, dennugsmello said:

The major fracture has occurred. The opposing sides are now viewing each other as less than human. Once that happens in large numbers the United States as we know it has reached its final phase. 

I believe that is the point.  No great empire or nation has every been conquered from without and there are people in high places who know this all too well.  Pit people against themselves, segregate people, flood the country with immigrants who form their own communities instead of assimilating, blame people's failures on other's successes, demonize free speech, etc. 

[BricksBrotha]

4 hours ago, iahawks550 said:

Dying tends to bring life choice regrets. 

Exactly, and in this case Valentine was actively spreading information to thousands and thousands of people who took his word as gospel. Words he ultimately regretted.  This should be criminal. 

1 hour ago, dennugsmello said:

I followed Phil Valentines story the entire way. Going to his twitter and seeing thousands of twitter replies and memes cheering on his death was sobering. Never seen anything like that in such high numbers. This lead me elsewhere for more research and have realized thats thousands of people actually want anti-covid vaccine citizens to die and actively root for it. They moralize their behavior saying the target kills people with their vaccine skepticism, but I'm not so sure that is what they really think. They want to see people die, and die for their decision. A satisfaction from another human being death is gained for these people. 

I had the same reaction when reading through a local representative's facebook page and his wife's page after they were both hospitalized and she passed away.  I was appalled to read the mocking comments about a deceased fellow citizen.   

17 minutes ago, Alpinemaps said:

I'm firmly of the belief that choices have consequences, and that you have to take responsibility for your choices.  So, if someone makes a choice not to take the vaccination; that's their choice.  However, I do NOT believe in judging them for exercise their freedom of choice.  I find that people that seem to be cheering on the consequences of someone's choice, and cheering them literally to death, to be morally bankrupt.

13 minutes ago, gmpirate said:

I believe that is the point.  No great empire or nation has every been conquered from without and there are people in high places who know this all too well.  Pit people against themselves, segregate people, flood the country with immigrants who form their own communities instead of assimilating, blame people's failures on other's successes, demonize free speech, etc. 

 

Digging on both of their FB pages a little deeper showed both the rep and his wife were openly mocking Covid patients, calling them fakers, liers, wasting resources, etc. Plenty of Meme's being shared depicting their views.  Valentine was no different. Radical Right vs Radical Left is perpetuated by Newtons 3rd law.  This major fracture referenced I believe has existed before, Covid has simply enlarged this divide. Why? Because a virus has become political.

 

3 hours ago, SpaceFan9 said:

If addressed early when symptoms are mild, it's very treatable. 

I appreciate the discourse and am truly thankful to read these points articulated.  Absolutely horrible to hear about the case you mentioned with adverse effects from the vaccine.  Just so people know, which vaccine did they have? Did they report their symptoms to their gp so the data can be captured? Lastly, did they have any other underlying health issues? 

I can tell you I have not met 1 person who has had any adverse effects from the 'jab' , other than mild symptoms for less than 24hrs.  Either the Moderna or Pfizer double dose vaccine.  However, I personally know at least a dozen of people who have passed away, unvaccinated.  And that number seems to be climbing everyday.   

Also, you mention how blessed you are how Covid has been gentle on your personal network. Would your stance change had it not been so gentle? The treatments you described are basically saying take your vitamins and be as healthy as possible to boost your immune system.  Any gp or physician would say this should be normal behavior before any pandemic.   

Other than viral load & pre-exiting conditions, exposure would be the greatest factor.  For people who already intake higher than the normal daily values of the vitamins mentioned, limiting exposure would be the greatest deterrent.  

As for india, from the links you provided:

Evidence of efficacy for ivermectin is inconclusive. It should not be used outside of clinical trials.

Neither hydroxychloroquine nor chloroquine should be used, either alone or in combination with azithromycin, in inpatient or outpatient settings

Many studies included were not peer reviewed and a wide range of doses were evaluated.

We are talking about using an Equine dewormer and antibiotics to treat a virus, just to be clear. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by BricksBrotha
typo

[BricksBrotha]

And your quote @SpaceFan9 included about treatability is absolutely false.  Treatable, except when it is not.  Maybe treatable with some, proving not so much with others.  

Edited August 22, 2021 by BricksBrotha
tried to merge comments but didn't work.

[BricksBrotha]

<delete>

Edited August 22, 2021 by BricksBrotha

[dennugsmello]

20 minutes ago, BricksBrotha said:

Exactly, We are talking about using an Equine dewormer and antibiotics to treat a virus, just to be clear. 

FYI, ivermectin is a drug used on human beings at upwards of 4 billion doses. A miracle drug for many nasty diseases. 
 

Calling it specifically an equine dewormer is disingenuous at worst or a naive statement at best. I implore everyone to do an honest look at ivermectin for covid treatment. Do your own research. To discount it’s possible benefits is just irresponsible. 
 

If our vaccines fail it may be our savior. I’m not saying it works or does not. I’m also not advocating its use. But to discount the legitimate potential is just wrong. Do your due diligence on how ivermectin possibly works, as big pharma certainly is. 

 

[BricksBrotha]

2 minutes ago, dennugsmello said:

FYI, ivermectin is a drug used on human beings at upwards of 4 billion doses. A miracle drug for many nasty diseases. 

There are only two rare conditions used on humans, intestinal stronglyoidiasis and onchocerciasis both parasitic worms.

 

Widely and primarily used as an equine dewormer.

[dennugsmello]

5 minutes ago, BricksBrotha said:

There are only two rare conditions used on humans, intestinal stronglyoidiasis and onchocerciasis.

 

I would not call hundreds of millions of cases in Africa rare. But what do I know…

[BricksBrotha]

18 minutes ago, dennugsmello said:

I would not call hundreds of millions of cases in Africa rare. But what do I know…

Apologies, I thought we were referring to the US.  I agree, in Africa parasitic worms are much more common because of poor sanitation conditions, poor public health practices, inadequate toilet facilities and contaminated food and water sources.

[fuzzy_bricks]

48 minutes ago, BricksBrotha said:

Widely and primarily used as an equine dewormer.

I've treated way more cattle with ivermectin than I have horses.  Sure it's semantics, but calling it just an equine dewormer is selling it short when it can treat all sorts of livestock.

Looks like the cloth masks may not be as beneficial as once thought. https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0057100

It will be interesting to see what comes from this in regards to ventilation rates.  The problem with just going whole hog on outside air is the energy consumption needed to condition that air.

[redcell]

2 hours ago, Alpinemaps said:

I'm firmly of the belief that choices have consequences, and that you have to take responsibility for your choices.  So, if someone makes a choice not to take the vaccination; that's their choice.  However, I do NOT believe in judging them for exercise their freedom of choice.  I find that people that seem to be cheering on the consequences of someone's choice, and cheering them literally to death, to be morally bankrupt.

I won't cheer on their deaths, but I have ZERO sympathy for people who had a megaphone, used it to downplay the virus and the need to get vaccinated, and ultimately succumbed to the disease that they used the power of their voice to convince other people to view as nothing to worry about.  Choices have consequences...sure you have the freedom to view mask mandates as the first step towards government-run gas chambers and the vaccine and virus as a hoax or conspiracy or whatever you choose to call it today to get people to tune in so that you can pull in advertising dollars and you also have the freedom to die for your stupidity.

[junkrigger]

I won't cheer on their deaths, but I have ZERO sympathy for people who had a megaphone, used it to downplay the virus and the need to get vaccinated, and ultimately succumbed to the disease that they used the power of their voice to convince other people to view as nothing to worry about.  Choices have consequences...sure you have the freedom to view mask mandates as the first step towards government-run gas chambers and the vaccine and virus as a hoax or conspiracy or whatever you choose to call it today to get people to tune in so that you can pull in advertising dollars and you also have the freedom to die for your stupidity.

This^ truth cannot be denied. I often question how much some people truly believe in the stances they take or are just trying to make money, but getting or not getting vaccinated is a pretty strong measure of belief vs profit acting. And from what we are seeing some folks must really believe, especially when they start booing their main man when he recommends getting vaccinated and mentions he already is. I think the fact that almost every politician is vaccinated speaks volumes.


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