COVID-19 / Coronavirus Discussion

[$20 on joe vs dan]

12 minutes ago, Mathew said:

Sorry to hear about you losses.  However you seem very matter of the fact about losing three family members to covid. 

Dang Man! this is a LEGO (toy) reseller's online forum...how should he be conveying his loss?

[Phil B]

Sorry to hear about you losses.  However you seem very matter of the fact about losing three family members to covid. 

WHAT THE ****. What kind of a response is that?!?


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[KvHulk]

The totally expected kind.

[lazuli16]

I always knew @jaisonline was part of the illuminati.

[elmaslıefendi]

19 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

can No ONE understand that a pandemic is DYNAMIC?

saying that officials changed their minds as the basis for how uncertain they are is daff.

there is a time and place for everything...but conditions change

It's actually much more dangerous to pick a plan and stick to it despite evolving data to the contrary...is THIS what everyone wants...a simple message that never changes despite information to the contrary?

Simultaneously discrediting & ignoring scientists & doctors with other data & suggestions doesn't fit the 'dynamic' you just described. If this scientific dynamic was even remotely respected, we'd probably be in a better place right now.

You try to understand government strategy by approaching with logic & reason, that's sweet, but in reality it comes down to convenience, UN diplomacy & doing favors for some multi-billionaire sigma gentlemen who choose to stay above the executive. And you gotta give them credit, they're quite good at it. 

[redcell]

I think we should all just let people do what they want to do regarding this virus stuff.
 
If they don't want the vaccine, let them not get it and stop harassing them. If they don't want to wear a mask, just leave them alone.
 
On the flip side, if you want the vaccine, go for it. If you want to wear a mask, you're more than welcome to.
 
People shouldn't be harassing people with or without masks or with or without the vaccine. It's their personal decision, and it should be made solely by them. The reason why someone made their decision shouldn't even matter as none of us are in a place to question people's motives or reasoning.
 
I think it would help everyone if we just minded our own business and let everyone decide for themselves what they want to do. 

I haven't the words for the level of stupidity in this post.

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[Donut]

[$20 on joe vs dan]

11 minutes ago, elmaslıefendi said:

Simultaneously discrediting & ignoring scientists & doctors with other data & suggestions doesn't fit the 'dynamic' you just described. If this scientific dynamic was even remotely respected, we'd probably be in a better place right now.

You try to understand government strategy by approaching with logic & reason, that's sweet, but in reality it comes down to convenience, UN diplomacy & doing favors for some multi-billionaire sigma gentlemen who choose to stay above the executive. And you gotta give them credit, they're quite good at it. 

if you are looking for it; one can always find a contradiction when discussing generalities.

so let's stick something specific:

Fauci and masks.  Initially there was a huge shortage of PPE for healthcare workers and non-healthcare folks were hoarding them like TP; in response to that Fauci said masks weren't needed to the general public.  Once it was clear that even home-made cloth masks can offer some protection Fauci tooted mask wearing for everyone. Once vaccines were widely available Fauci conveyed that if we reach herd immunity w/ it, then masks should not be needed.  Information broke that the Delta Variant is much more contagious than prior variants and news further evolved that showed even vaccinated folks can transmit; so now Fauci is saying to wear masks again.

IN this example where is the "they are all out to get us" conspiracy?

[fuzzy_bricks]

4 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

if you are looking for it; one can always find a contradiction when discussing generalities.

so let's stick something specific:

Fauci and masks.  Initially there was a huge shortage of PPE for healthcare workers and non-healthcare folks were hoarding them like TP; in response to that Fauci said masks weren't needed to the general public.  Once it was clear that even home-made cloth masks can offer some protection Fauci tooted mask wearing for everyone. Once vaccines were widely available Fauci conveyed that if we reach herd immunity w/ it, then masks should not be needed.  Information broke that the Delta Variant is much more contagious than prior variants and news further evolved that showed even vaccinated folks can transmit; so now Fauci is saying to wear masks again.

IN this example where is the "they are all out to get us" conspiracy?

Our government, in their infinite wisdom and with their unlimited resources, thought the best plan to secure PPE was to lie to the public to keep them from buying it all.  Then they act surprised when some people say "masks don't work." 

[Brystheguy]

8 minutes ago, fuzzy_bricks said:

Our government, in their infinite wisdom and with their unlimited resources, thought the best plan to secure PPE was to lie to the public to keep them from buying it all.  Then they act surprised when some people say "masks don't work." 

Yawn.

No one lied. They wanted to prioritize PPE for healthcare workers on the front line of the pandemic. Most of us didn't really need a mask to sit in our living rooms. You're right, the "masks don't work" crowd has been lied to by members of the government, who all happen to belong to the same party. Weird.

[$20 on joe vs dan]

10 minutes ago, fuzzy_bricks said:

Our government, in their infinite wisdom and with their unlimited resources, thought the best plan to secure PPE was to lie to the public to keep them from buying it all.  Then they act surprised when some people say "masks don't work." 

again, generalities...everyone lies and everyone tells the truth..find a falsehood in that statement

using the term like "government" is like using a term like "science"...both invites contradiction because neither represents a singular entity and both requires context (time and place).

[Darth_Raichu]

4 minutes ago, Brystheguy said:

Yawn.

No one lied. They wanted to prioritize PPE for healthcare workers on the front line of the pandemic. Most of us didn't really need a mask to sit in our living rooms. You're right, the "masks don't work" crowd has been lied to by members of the government, who all happen to belong to the same party. Weird.

It would be more strange (at least I thought) if the members of said party did not question their leaders when those leaders lied to them

[Mathew]

5 minutes ago, Brystheguy said:

Yawn.

No one lied. They wanted to prioritize PPE for healthcare workers on the front line of the pandemic. Most of us didn't really need a mask to sit in our living rooms. You're right, the "masks don't work" crowd has been lied to by members of the government, who all happen to belong to the same party. Weird.

If cloth masks are so effective against stopping the spread of viruses then why were they not recommending them during previous pandemics or even normal cold and flu seasons?  It’s not like face coverings are some new technology. 

[Mathew]

57 minutes ago, redcell said:

 

 

I haven't the words for the level of stupidity in this post.

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Then why say anything 👍

[fuzzy_bricks]

2 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

again, generalities...everyone lies and everyone tells the truth..find a falsehood in that statement

using the term like "government" is like using a term like "science"...both invites contradiction because neither represents a singular entity and both requires context (time and place).

I think government is a fair term when a top employee of that entity speaks out.  It wasn't something that Fauci came up with on his own, according to this interview he said that this came out of a task force.  A group of people decided the best idea was to lie, mislead if lie is too harsh for you, to the public like they were children.

14 minutes ago, Brystheguy said:

Yawn.

No one lied. They wanted to prioritize PPE for healthcare workers on the front line of the pandemic. Most of us didn't really need a mask to sit in our living rooms. You're right, the "masks don't work" crowd has been lied to by members of the government, who all happen to belong to the same party. Weird.

They knowingly presented a false statement, which is the definition of a lie.  I'm just pointing out that the best plan they could come up with was to mislead the public.  Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.

[redcell]

Then why say anything

If you have to ask, you're swimming in the same pool.

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[$20 on joe vs dan]

11 minutes ago, fuzzy_bricks said:

I think government is a fair term when a top employee of that entity speaks out.  It wasn't something that Fauci came up with on his own, according to this interview he said that this came out of a task force.  A group of people decided the best idea was to lie, mislead if lie is too harsh for you, to the public like they were children.

They knowingly presented a false statement, which is the definition of a lie.  I'm just pointing out that the best plan they could come up with was to mislead the public.  Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.

when did telling the public: "Stop hoarding" EVER cause them to not hoard more?

one can say everything the government says can be scene as misleading because any statement addressed to 300 million people will ALWAY have exceptions or potential contradiction.

so ONCE AGAIN, if you are looking for it, you will find it.

in hindsight: Fauci should have said: we are uncertain about much of how CV is transmitted but the evidence currently suggest that for most of the public, N95 and surgical masks are unnecessary; additionally, these masks are in short supply and healthcare workers (who have much more exposure than most of the public) are in dire need of them.  

33 minutes ago, Mathew said:

If cloth masks are so effective against stopping the spread of viruses then why were they not recommending them during previous pandemics or even normal cold and flu seasons?  It’s not like face coverings are some new technology. 

most of the asian countries have been wearing masks for what you described going back quite a few years

why not here?  I blame the lipstick industry

[Mathew]

23 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

when did telling the public: "Stop hoarding" EVER cause them to not hoard more?

one can say everything the government says can be scene as misleading because any statement addressed to 300 million people will ALWAY have exceptions or potential contradiction.

so ONCE AGAIN, if you are looking for it, you will find it.

in hindsight: Fauci should have said: we are uncertain about much of how CV is transmitted but the evidence currently suggest that for most of the public, N95 and surgical masks are unnecessary; additionally, these masks are in short supply and healthcare workers (who have much more exposure than most of the public) are in dire need of them.  

most of the asian countries have been wearing masks for what you described going back quite a few years

why not here?  I blame the lipstick industry

Lipstick?  
https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/299003/a-quick-history-of-why-asians-wear-surgical-masks-in-public/amp/

Interesting pre-covid article:

”The reality is that the woven-cloth surgical masks provide minimal protection from environmental viruses anyway. (Surgeons use them to protect patients from their mouth-borne germs, not the other way around.) But the masks’ actual prophylactic utility is, in a way, secondary to other reasons they’re being worn, which is why they’re likely to become more common in the future—even among non-Asians.”

The article then goes on to discuss air pollution and how mask wearing is philosophical.   Interesting how global pandemics and climate change seem to go hand in hand nowadays. I can actually understand mask wearing to protect from air pollution and smoke from wildfires. Covid not so much. 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Mathew

[$20 on joe vs dan]

4 minutes ago, Mathew said:

Lipstick?  
https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/299003/a-quick-history-of-why-asians-wear-surgical-masks-in-public/amp/

Interesting pre-covid article:

”The reality is that the woven-cloth surgical masks provide minimal protection from environmental viruses anyway. (Surgeons use them to protect patients from their mouth-borne germs, not the other way around.) But the masks’ actual prophylactic utility is, in a way, secondary to other reasons they’re being worn, which is why they’re likely to become more common in the future—even among non-Asians.”

The article then goes on to discuss air pollution and how mask wearing is philosophical.   Interesting how global pandemics and climate change seem to go hand in hand nowadays. 

I lost track; but did you ever respond to my question on whether you think it's a good idea to cover ones mouth when sneezing

[Alpinemaps]

If a person does not trust medical science by all means they can go it alone, no one is forcing anyone to seek out medical care, but then don’t expect medical science to save their butt when they finally realize they might want help.

Does that apply to only COIVD? Because I can’t imagine we really want to take that attitude with, say, alcoholism, opioid abuse or IV drug use.

“Sorry John, I know you want to get clean, but since you didn’t believe there was any way for modern medicine to help you before today, you’re just going to have to figure it out on your own.”

People shouldn't be harassing people

Going to stop you right there. Because that’s really the bottom line.

[Mathew]

2 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

I lost track; but did you ever respond to my question on whether you think it's a good idea to cover ones mouth when sneezing

Of course. That’s kindergarten level.  Here’s a picture for you:  

[$20 on joe vs dan]

4 minutes ago, Mathew said:

Of course. That’s kindergarten level.  Here’s a picture for you:  

so why are you so dismissive about masks?

someone's hand is much more porous than even the flimsiest of cloth masks...and contaminated hands are so much more a threat of transmission...the exact points you seem to make about not wearing masks (they are not effective (enough) and can be full of germs if not properly sanitized.

 

[dennugsmello]

3 hours ago, gmpirate said:

Follow the science.  Illegals are immune to the virus and does not spread in mob settings.

[lazuli16]

I never understood the anti-mask issue. I imagine the anti-mask people removing their shirts and shoes whenever they see the "No Shoes No Shirt, No Service" signs. 

[$20 on joe vs dan]

12 minutes ago, Alpinemaps said:

 

Does that apply to only COIVD? Because I can’t imagine we really want to take that attitude with, say, alcoholism, opioid abuse or IV drug use.

“Sorry John, I know you want to clean, but since you didn’t believe there was any way for modern medicine to help you before today, you’re just going to have to figure it out on your own.”



Going to stop you right there. Because that’s really the bottom line.

 

in terms of a deterrent...honestly, it shouldn't fall on the health care providers...it should be the health insurance companies and HMOs...they are universally hated anyway...let them put antivaxer as a "pre-condition" and let's all move on.