Star Wars 2022 Movie Trilogy

[beatpoppa]

6 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

Disney replaced midichlorian with recycled ideas, subpar plotting, and nonexistent writing.  At least with prequel trilogy, there were different designs of droids & vehicles to challenge the LEGO designers.  Nowadays we have to be content with the nth remakes of AWing, Ywing, and XWing.  Progress 

I love Lucas... the genius innovator. Dork king marketing savant & curator of my childhood imaginations.  

Re: recycled ideas - Frank Herbert sued George Lucas and 20th Century Fox over plagarism of Dune in the Star Wars plotline.  They settled out of court.

Re: plot/writing issues -

 

[KShine]

2 hours ago, beatpoppa said:

We got lucky to ever get any good Star Wars...  Marcia Lucas' editing protected George the director from himself on all his projects.  Kersher saved us from George mangling Empire.  Marcia had to come out of retirement to perform open-heart editing on Jedi to save us all from things worse than Ewoks...  and she immediately divorced George after the experience.  Without Marcia, George was doomed to fail when making the prequels. 

Selling to Disney at least put a stake through the heart of midichlorian counts and other horrors George had planned.  

Based on simple talents in x, y, or z - you are correct.

But he was the driving force, without which any worthwhile SW would never have been. When no one else was able to do the things he needed for his movies, he created brand new companies to do things that he envisioned, and he had the ability to squeeze the very best out of peoples potential, somehow inspiring them to do things that they wouldn't have otherwise done.

Edited November 8, 2019 by KShine

[Darth_Raichu]

23 minutes ago, beatpoppa said:

I love Lucas... the genius innovator. Dork king marketing savant & curator of my childhood imaginations.  

Re: recycled ideas - Frank Herbert sued George Lucas and 20th Century Fox over plagarism of Dune in the Star Wars plotline.  They settled out of court.

Re: plot/writing issues -

 

I was trying to be kind.  The new trilogy was so great it introduced us to a new interesting character like Finn in movie 7, only to relegate him to 2nd banana in his own movie 8. Progress

 

[KShine]

58 minutes ago, beatpoppa said:

I love Lucas... the genius innovator. Dork king marketing savant & curator of my childhood imaginations.  

Re: recycled ideas - Frank Herbert sued George Lucas and 20th Century Fox over plagarism of Dune in the Star Wars plotline.  They settled out of court.

Re: plot/writing issues -

 

Well, he is right about sand (it does get everywhere) - and I have to say that Padme does appear to be soft, and smooth.

[exracer327]

3 hours ago, Darth_Raichu said:

I was trying to be kind.  The new trilogy was so great it introduced us to a new interesting character like Finn in movie 7, only to relegate him to 2nd banana in his own movie 8. Progress

 

Finn showed real strength and then struggled with his identity in SW VII.  I felt like they were going for a parallel to Han.  But in VIII they turn him into a coward who was going AWOL only to redeem him by having him sacrifice himself, err no, have Rose try to kill him on Crait.  But then he really does redeem himself by killing Kenny, err Phasma... again.

I seriously wonder how they're going to have Finn kill Phasma in IX.  If I were the actress for Phasma, I'd be pissed.  All the other women get kick-butt opportunities, but she's summarily killed off by a coward, low-level janitorial storm trooper.  What a joke... just like Star Wars has become.

[Alpinemaps]

Finn showed real strength and then struggled with his identity in SW VII.  I felt like they were going for a parallel to Han.  But in VIII they turn him into a coward who was going AWOL only to redeem him by having him sacrifice himself, err no, have Rose try to kill him on Crait.  But then he really does redeem himself by killing Kenny, err Phasma... again.
I seriously wonder how they're going to have Finn kill Phasma in IX.  If I were the actress for Phasma, I'd be pissed.  All the other women get kick-butt opportunities, but she's summarily killed off by a coward, low-level janitorial storm trooper.  What a joke... just like Star Wars has become.

I hadn’t seen Game of Thrones until after I had already seen TFA and TLJ. After watching her on GoT I’m honestly pissed at both JJ and Rian. They completely under used her. They wasted her. It’s a damn shame.

[Darth_Raichu]

Breaking news: SW films put on hiatus after ep9

https://www.cnet.com/news/star-wars-feature-films-are-going-on-hiatus-after-the-rise-of-skywalker/

[exracer327]

17 hours ago, Darth_Raichu said:

Breaking news: SW films put on hiatus after ep9

https://www.cnet.com/news/star-wars-feature-films-are-going-on-hiatus-after-the-rise-of-skywalker/

Wow and it's still early November.  I guess they did notice now opening night still isn't sold out.  I wonder how Rian Johnson feels about this hiatus?  lol

Reading between the lines... "We screwed up much bigger than we allowed ourselves to believe and now we (*cough* Kathleen Kennedy) have burnt the SW film franchise so bad we need to rebuild it.  But hey, people will continue to buy OT stuff so we'll still make money... we hope."

[LegoMan1212]

16 minutes ago, exracer327 said:

Wow and it's still early November.  I guess they did notice now opening night still isn't sold out.  I wonder how Rian Johnson feels about this hiatus?  lol

Reading between the lines... "We screwed up much bigger than we allowed ourselves to believe and now we (*cough* Kathleen Kennedy) have burnt the SW film franchise so bad we need to rebuild it.  But hey, people will continue to buy OT stuff so we'll still make money... we hope."

I actually had the thought today on the possibilities of Lego stopping the production of Star Wars themed sets.  Could it happen, would it happen, and if it did, where would stores on BrickLink get all the LBG and DBG pieces again?

[Val-E]

4 hours ago, LegoMan1212 said:

I actually had the thought today on the possibilities of Lego stopping the production of Star Wars themed sets.  Could it happen, would it happen, and if it did, where would stores on BrickLink get all the LBG and DBG pieces again?

That would be a major crisis due to the scarcity of Star Wars sets on the secondary market.

[Mark Twain]

Wow and it's still early November.  I guess they did notice now opening night still isn't sold out.  I wonder how Rian Johnson feels about this hiatus?  lol
Reading between the lines... "We screwed up much bigger than we allowed ourselves to believe and now we (*cough* Kathleen Kennedy) have burnt the SW film franchise so bad we need to rebuild it.  But hey, people will continue to buy OT stuff so we'll still make money... we hope."

No, I don’t think this speaks to the quality issues of the new films. Disney simply put out content to recoup the cost of purchasing the brand and are now resting the franchise, much like George Lucas did after ROTJ. Resting the film brand is a good thing and letting tv take over for awhile is a smart move for them. They have a lot of narratives to explore from legacy and canon and that will take time. The new SW features in Disneyland/ World are also growing.

[Darth_Raichu]

1 hour ago, Mark Twain said:

 

No, I don’t think this speaks to the quality issues of the new films. Disney simply put out content to recoup the cost of purchasing the brand and are now resting the franchise, much like George Lucas did after ROTJ. Resting the film brand is a good thing and letting tv take over for awhile is a smart move for them. They have a lot of narratives to explore from legacy and canon and that will take time. The new SW features in Disneyland/ World are also growing.

 

Yeah, Disney is just resting the brand just like what they did when they bought Marvel for much less than Lucasfilm .... .... ...
oh wait...

[exracer327]

2 hours ago, Mark Twain said:

 

No, I don’t think this speaks to the quality issues of the new films. Disney simply put out content to recoup the cost of purchasing the brand and are now resting the franchise, much like George Lucas did after ROTJ. Resting the film brand is a good thing and letting tv take over for awhile is a smart move for them. They have a lot of narratives to explore from legacy and canon and that will take time. The new SW features in Disneyland/ World are also growing.

 

Watch the Netflix series "The Toys That Made Us: Star Wars" and they tell the whole story of why Lucas "rested" Star Wars.

Basically Kenner had the rights to produce the SW figures, but Lucas realized he wasn't making as much money off them as he could have.  All Kenner had to do was continue to pay Lucasfilm a licensing fee every year and they maintained the license.  Apparently Kenner didn't see the point to keep paying the licensing fee when there were no new movies, so they missed a payment one year.  The next year Lucas came with a new agreement, one in which he was now in the driver's seat.  Kenner even jokingly referred to it as "The Revenge of Lucas" (or something like that).  It was after that new toy agreement that Lucas began producing new movies.  

So it wasn't Lucas "resting the story" as much as it was Lucas "resetting royalties"... so he could get richer.

The Netflix show tells the story really well.  It's been a while since I watched it and my details might be a little off, but the sequence of events should be right.  Check out the show for yourself.

On a side note, when have you ever seen Disney "rest" anything that is making a snot-load of money?  Just saying....

[Mark Twain]

Watch the Netflix series "The Toys That Made Us: Star Wars" and they tell the whole story of why Lucas "rested" Star Wars.

Basically Kenner had the rights to produce the SW figures, but Lucas realized he wasn't making as much money off them as he could have.  All Kenner had to do was continue to pay Lucasfilm a licensing fee every year and they maintained the license.  Apparently Kenner didn't see the point to keep paying the licensing fee when there were no new movies, so they missed a payment one year.  The next year Lucas came with a new agreement, one in which he was now in the driver's seat.  Kenner even jokingly referred to it as "The Revenge of Lucas" (or something like that).  It was after that new toy agreement that Lucas began producing new movies.  

So it wasn't Lucas "resting the story" as much as it was Lucas "resetting royalties"... so he could get richer.

The Netflix show tells the story really well.  It's been a while since I watched it and my details might be a little off, but the sequence of events should be right.  Check out the show for yourself.

On a side note, when have you ever seen Disney "rest" anything that is making a snot-load of money?  Just saying....

 

The shows argument is silly—that it was a move to get toy rights alone. He got those rights back within a year of not releasing a new film, so 1984 to 1999 was, what then?

 

Only real box office bomb has been Solo.

 

Again, Disney recouped it’s investment and then some, now they’re moving beyond film .

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/30/six-years-after-buying-lucasfilm-disney-has-recouped-its-investment.html

[KShine]

The Star Wars train had already derailed before the Solo movie came out (Disney just didn't want to realize it).

Their crap movie had just made big box office, so they figured they could ignore the pathetic whiny men living in their mommy's basement.

The Solo movie was a decent enough movie. I figure that aside from its disappointing performance, sales across the board for all SW related items must have really gone off a cliff, or they wouldn't have abruptly canceled all future movies the way that they did.

[exracer327]

4 hours ago, Mark Twain said:

 

The shows argument is silly—that it was a move to get toy rights alone. He got those rights back within a year of not releasing a new film, so 1984 to 1999 was, what then?

Only real box office bomb has been Solo.

Again, Disney recouped it’s investment and then some, now they’re moving beyond film .

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/30/six-years-after-buying-lucasfilm-disney-has-recouped-its-investment.html

You are mistaken about the rights returning to Lucas after a year of no new film.  Please read: https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-star-wars-revolutionized-the-toy-industry

"Hasbro bought Kenner in 1991, closed its Cincinnati office, and somehow, forgot about the Star Wars merchandising deal’s $10,000 stipulation. It failed to pay Lucas his share and the contract expired. Coincidentally (or not, probably), a year later, Lucas announced he would direct a prequel trilogy, sparking a bidding war for merchandising rights among toy companies."

1992 was when Lucas regained the rights to renegotiate, not 1985 as you suggested.

In 1993 Lucas "announced" the Prequel trilogy and began writing #1 in 1994.  He had lot of work done for these prior to the original release in 1977.  For instance, after the original release, as a child, I knew  part of Vader's backstory was that the emperor had rescued a severely injured and maimed Darth Vader  (missing limbs or partial limbs) from a lava planet.  We also knew that the Emperor was a Senator Palpatine although I do not recall us knowing what planet he was from.  1997 was when they began filming for a 1999 release of The Phantom Menace.

Funny how the year after Kenner's contract ended Lucas suddenly was no longer "burned out" or giving Star Wars movies a "rest".

As for recouping their investment; my rough calcs (assuming 50% of production budget exp for adverting, which is an industry standard) Disney has roughly profited $3.2 bil.  They could well have paid for their investment, but it would have to include merchandising, which is where the real money is.  (Although, as Kenner found out the hard way with the prequels, if they're not well received, the sales suffer). 

Solo roughly lost $7 mil.  That is nothing compared to a $400,000,000 exp (incl advertising) but when all the other SW movies have profited hundreds of millions of dollars each, that is a very big miss.

Edited November 10, 2019 by exracer327

[Darth_Raichu]

5 hours ago, Mark Twain said:

 

Again, Disney recouped it’s investment and then some, now they’re moving beyond film .

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/30/six-years-after-buying-lucasfilm-disney-has-recouped-its-investment.html

You can swim in the Disney cool-aid all you want, but please do not cite this embarrassing article. 

Quote

• Six years ago, Disney bought Lucasfilm for $4.05 billion.
• The four Star Wars feature films Disney has released since 2015 have grossed more than $4.8 billion at the box office.

 

Just for the benefit of others.  That $4.8 billion number was GROSSED, meaning they have not counted for cost of making the movies, cost of advertisement, and the cut to the movie theaters.
Lets be honest here.  Even the first year eBay sellers know that just because they sold a LEGO set for $200, does not mean they made $200.  

[Mark Twain]

 
Just for the benefit of others.  That $4.8 billion number was GROSSED, meaning they have not counted for cost of making the movies, cost of advertisement, and the cut to the movie theaters.
Lets be honest here.  Even the first year eBay sellers know that just because they sold a LEGO set for $200, does not mean they made $200.  

Of course it doesn’t. It also doesn’t include any of the franchise profits from toys, video games, etc. Stars Wars isn’t simply the films, dude.

https://qz.com/1169393/disneys-star-wars-films-have-earned-more-than-lucasfim-was-bought-for/

“But that box-office gross also doesn’t account for the revenue Disney earns from Star Wars home-video releases, movie licensing deals, Star Wars TV shows, Star Wars theme-park experiences, toys, and other consumer products. In 2015, sales of Star Wars merchandise boosted Disney’s earnings before its first Star Wars movie, The Force Awakens, even hit theaters.”

[Alpinemaps]

For instance, after the original release, as a child, I knew  part of Vader's backstory was that the emperor had rescued a severely injured and maimed Darth Vader  (missing limbs or partial limbs) from a lava planet.  We also knew that the Emperor was a Senator Palpatine although I do not recall us knowing what planet he was from.

I too remember those things. I also remember seeing a news snippet that said George was planning for 9 movies and that Chewie, 3PO and R2 would be the only characters to appear in all 9. This was sometime around 1980, probably around the time Empire came out. (Of course, we know Chewie didn’t appear in 1 and 2 and for a while George claimed only 6 planned).

[Darth_Raichu]

1 hour ago, Mark Twain said:

 

Of course it doesn’t. It also doesn’t include any of the franchise profits from toys, video games, etc. Stars Wars isn’t simply the films, dude.

https://qz.com/1169393/disneys-star-wars-films-have-earned-more-than-lucasfim-was-bought-for/

“But that box-office gross also doesn’t account for the revenue Disney earns from Star Wars home-video releases, movie licensing deals, Star Wars TV shows, Star Wars theme-park experiences, toys, and other consumer products. In 2015, sales of Star Wars merchandise boosted Disney’s earnings before its first Star Wars movie, The Force Awakens, even hit theaters.”

 

Again, dude, where are the hard numbers?  There is not even a ballpark of this supposed revenue.  Is it $2 billion or $500 million ?  Both big numbers that can "boost earnings" but you would agree there would be big difference between the 2 numbers.  
Also, the snippet you quoted was pre-Force Awakens, meaning old data.

Since you brought up the movie earnings via those articles, how much did Disney actually earned from the movies?  Assuming production costs was $400 million each (as cnbc quoted), that was a cost of $1.6 billion for 4 movies. Lets say marketing is 1/4 of that amount, that is already $2 billion costs without accounting for the cut to the theaters.  Just by this low estimate, Disney was only making around $1-1.5 billion from the movies.

So the hard numbers from those licensing deals, theme park, etc... are important to support your claim on Disney recouping their SW investment, no?  Where are the numbers?

Oh, by the way, there are costs associated with creating those SW theme parks at Disneyland and Disney World, yes?  Have you put these costs into your calculations?

[jaisonline]

At this point , i wonder if “IP Bob” is still happy with his LF purchase ($4.06B in 2012) .   Kennedy's helm has been a failure in my opinion.  I think SW fandom is near an all-time slow ... nobody I know is really excited about new films after Solo and The Last Jedi.   

They made a total killing with the Marvel acquisition (only $4.0B in 2009).  
Pixar was costly but likely doing well ($7.4B in 2006).  Not sure if this has been recouped yet.  This purchased was more than just about the films.

https://disneynews.us/important-disney-acquisitions-time-disney-history/

[Mark Twain]

Disney's Star Wars earnings are difficult to pin down because of how many different revenue streams they have and how they cover loses/ earnings from one franchise to the next, but let's talk merchandise and hard numbers. 

Again, I'm not a primary source for this and neither are you so here are what I can find reported from credible sources. 

Time reported in 2016 toy sales, not overall merchandise sales, but JUST TOYS from The Force Awakens: 

Quote

Toys based on Star Wars: The Force Awakens reaped $700 million in the United States, retail research firm NPD Group announced Wednesday, Reuters reports. While the newest Star Wars installment was released on Dec. 18, toy sales from the franchise started early with Disney promoting “Force Friday” on Sept. 4, when retailers launched the merchandise early to create buzz for the film.

Toy sales, led by Star Wars merchandise, were strong overall, up 6.7 percent for a total industry take of $19.4 billion last year, NPD reports. Toys from the Star Wars franchise—including light sabers and BB-8 droids—sold more than those of movie franchises “Jurassic World,” “Minions” and “Avengers.”

Rogue One also helped boost total Star Wars merchandise sales according to Variety in 2017. And, yes, TLJ and Solo saw a large decline in merchandise sales, as reported in many, many, outlets; however, these sale numbers were all in context of the 2015-2017 numbers, which were staggeringly high --even if those numbers were down 40-50%.  Any way you look at it, Disney's $4 billion plus purchase of the franchise was a bargin that they've made their money back on in very short order. 

[exracer327]

"Toys based on Star Wars: The Force Awakens reaped $700 million in the USA".  Again, that is a gross dollar amount and means nothing.  As was stated earlier, gross sales do not equal profit.  The second paragraph also means nothing: Toy sales (ALL toys, not just SW) was up 6.7% with $19.4 bil in sales.  Also, gross amount, not profit.  And it just says that Star Wars led the way, but didn't explain what that meant.  Lastly, 2016 is a long ways from our current discussion post-TLJ and Solo.

Disney paid $4 Bil+ for the SW franchise.  So they need to produce new product (movies, merchandise, etc. which all costs money to produce) and then turn a profit in order to "pay for" the $4 bil purchase price.  I do not know what their profit margin is as I'm sure it varies from prod to prod but I think our conversation has missed the bigger picture.  We can debate if Disney has hit their mark or not OR we could just compare SW to Marvel and ask, how is each doing?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/21/disney-has-made-more-than-18-billion-from-marvel-films-since-2012.html  The Title pretty much says it all.  In the mean time, the last SW movie (Solo) lost money for Disney. 

It will be curious how IX does, but as someone else said, I don't know anyone who is excited about going to this movie.  My wife and I have always been able to see a block-buster movie each year right around our anniversary, which this year would be SW IX.  My wife is emphatic, she is not interested in seeing SW IX.  In a weird way, I'm not either.  I say that because both of us have been huge SW fans for decades and enjoyed sharing it with our children.  Sadly, because of TFA and now TLJ, neither of our children have any interest in seeing another SW movie - ever.  However, both of our kids have seen Marvel movies multiple times.

We also need to admit the Mandalorian series, which I have high hopes for, was really supposed to be a Boba Fett movie and was re-purposed.  The Obi-Wan series was supposed to be a movie, also re-purposed.  Disney is bringing back the last season of the Clone Wars, which I'm glad for, except Disney killed the series as soon as they bought the rights. 

That is a lot of "retooling" going on for a SW franchise that is allegedly hitting on all cylinders. 

And if anyone says I'm a Disney hater, I wouldn't own stock in Disney if I were a hater.  Nor would I be going to Disney World this Christmas if I were a hater.  We even plan to try out Star Wars land, although I've seen lots of posts and read many accounts that it is all hype and no substance.  Sadly, I don't have high hopes, which might make my experience better than I expect.

Edited November 10, 2019 by exracer327

[Mark Twain]

"Toys based on Star Wars: The Force Awakens reaped $700 million in the USA".  Again, that is a gross dollar amount and means nothing.  As was stated earlier, gross sales do not equal profit.  The second paragraph also means nothing: Toy sales (ALL toys, not just SW) was up 6.7% with $19.4 bil in sales.  Also, gross amount, not profit.  And it just says that Star Wars led the way, but didn't explain what that meant.  Lastly, 2016 is a long ways from our current discussion post-TLJ and Solo.
Disney paid $4 Bil+ for the SW franchise.  So they need to produce new product (movies, merchandise, etc. which all costs money to produce) and then turn a profit in order to "pay for" the $4 bil purchase price.  I do not know what their profit margin is as I'm sure it varies from prod to prod but I think our conversation has missed the bigger picture.  We can debate if Disney has hit their mark or not OR we could just compare SW to Marvel and ask, how is each doing?
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/21/disney-has-made-more-than-18-billion-from-marvel-films-since-2012.html  The Title pretty much says it all.  In the mean time, the last SW movie (Solo) lost money for Disney. 
It will be curious how IX does, but as someone else said, I don't know anyone who is excited about going to this movie.  My wife and I have always been able to see a block-buster movie each year right around our anniversary, which this year would be SW IX.  My wife is emphatic, she is not interested in seeing SW IX.  In a weird way, I'm not either.  I say that because both of us have been huge SW fans for decades and enjoyed sharing it with our children.  Sadly, because of TFA and now TLJ, neither of our children have any interest in seeing another SW movie - ever.  However, both of our kids have seen Marvel movies multiple times.
We also need to admit the Mandalorian series, which I have high hopes for, was really supposed to be a Boba Fett movie and was re-purposed.  The Obi-Wan series was supposed to be a movie, also re-purposed.  Disney is bringing back the last season of the Clone Wars, which I'm glad for, except Disney killed the series as soon as they bought the rights. 
That is a lot of "retooling" going on for a SW franchise that is allegedly hitting on all cylinders. 
And if anyone says I'm a Disney hater, I wouldn't own stock in Disney if I were a hater.  Nor would I be going to Disney World this Christmas if I were a hater.  We even plan to try out Star Wars land, although I've seen lots of posts and read many accounts that it is all hype and no substance.  Sadly, I don't have high hopes, which might make my experience better than I expect.

Comparing Disney’s Marvel purchase with SW is not an apples to apples comparison. Marvel released 16+ films since its purchase, this will be the 5th SW film. Of course Marvel has made them more money.

Where are the credible sources stating Disney has lost money on SW since the franchise purchase?

[KShine]

Interesting - Be aware that there may be spoilers. You can usually tell when they are getting into details, and skip ahead as you read it.

https://cosmicbook.news/george-lucas-saving-star-wars-test-screenings-disaster