Super Heroes 2018

[jeff_14]

On ‎2018‎/‎12‎/‎06 at 10:15 PM, The Builder said:

I think there is a little lack of talent, and good scripts. And I do agree that DC is NOT marvel, marvel is more light and funny, and DC is more emotional and dark. But DC has done some bad movies in the past that has destroyed there reputation! 

Here's what it comes down to, talent, directors, and good scripts. Which DC has 1-2 of the three. Were as marvel has all 3. That's why marvel movies gross more than DC, because DC has been producing crap for a few years. As that pains me to say. Because DC is my favorite of the two. But I'm mad at DC for messing it up!

DC does not have bad movies compared to Marvel. Here's the DC run down - Man of Steel, amazing. BvS, amazing to me at least though widely panned yet highly profitable (people just couldn't handle superheroes being serious like this). SS, meh but very profitable. WW, grand park slam in terms of box office and praise. JL, the second best reviewed DC movie (in the mid 80s) but a box office fail.

Here is Marvel's first 5. Iron Man, awesome all around. Incredible Hulk, the worst in the franchise in every way, far worse than BvS. Iron Man 2, made money but widely panned. Captain America, made very little and just ok. Thor, made even less and was a joke.

DC is in a better position than Marvel was after the same number of movies. The difference is primarily as you noted about tone. Marvel is doing light, live action cartoons as safe for families as Frozen. DC is doing adult oriented movies for the same people who liked 300, Sin City, Watchmen, V for Vendetta. Indeed many of the people making DC movies made those movies. DC opted to forego the more lucrative family audience and target adults. And yet it has made way more money on its first 5 than Marvel did on its first 5. That's an incredible accomplishment.

DC has not failed unless the goal is to make a Marvel movie, which it was not doing until WW and the editing of JL. Aquaman and Shazam will also be more of this type and so while that makes more people happy, the adults like me want to see the full Snyder plan and others like that (ie a proper Suicide Squad movie) mixed in. I almost never rewatch Marvel movies. There's no need. They are all very similar to each other with mostly B list actors and little emotional impact. I enjoy them for what they are and my son and I always have a laugh watching them, but none of them inspire great discussions or emotional responses the way the better DC movies have.

[amrandazz]

37 minutes ago, jeff_14 said:

DC does not have bad movies compared to Marvel. Here's the DC run down - Man of Steel, amazing. BvS, amazing to me at least though widely panned yet highly profitable (people just couldn't handle superheroes being serious like this). SS, meh but very profitable. WW, grand park slam in terms of box office and praise. JL, the second best reviewed DC movie (in the mid 80s) but a box office fail.

Here is Marvel's first 5. Iron Man, awesome all around. Incredible Hulk, the worst in the franchise in every way, far worse than BvS. Iron Man 2, made money but widely panned. Captain America, made very little and just ok. Thor, made even less and was a joke.

DC is in a better position than Marvel was after the same number of movies. The difference is primarily as you noted about tone. Marvel is doing light, live action cartoons as safe for families as Frozen. DC is doing adult oriented movies for the same people who liked 300, Sin City, Watchmen, V for Vendetta. Indeed many of the people making DC movies made those movies. DC opted to forego the more lucrative family audience and target adults. And yet it has made way more money on its first 5 than Marvel did on its first 5. That's an incredible accomplishment.

DC has not failed unless the goal is to make a Marvel movie, which it was not doing until WW and the editing of JL. Aquaman and Shazam will also be more of this type and so while that makes more people happy, the adults like me want to see the full Snyder plan and others like that (ie a proper Suicide Squad movie) mixed in. I almost never rewatch Marvel movies. There's no need. They are all very similar to each other with mostly B list actors and little emotional impact. I enjoy them for what they are and my son and I always have a laugh watching them, but none of them inspire great discussions or emotional responses the way the better DC movies have.

Nolan made a adult-oriented DC movies that were very successful. TDK is still the best super hero movie to this day. Perhaps Snyder and his vision is the problem. You could argue that the reason the first few MCU movies didn't make a ton of money is because the MCU brand wasn't really built yet. Compare AoU and Civil War to the first Captain movies. Also, if you're comparing Justice League to anything, it needs to be the first Avengers movie (it made almost 3 times more). The DCU doesn't have a foundation that MCU has built for itself. 

[jeff_14]

1 minute ago, amrandazz said:

Nolan made a adult-oriented DC movies that were very successful. TDK is still the best super hero movie to this day. Perhaps Snyder and his vision is the problem. You could argue that the reason the first few MCU movies didn't make a ton of money is because the MCU brand wasn't really built yet. Compare AoU and Civil War to the first Captain movies. Also, if you're comparing Justice League to anything, it needs to be the first Avengers movie (it made almost 3 times more). The DCU doesn't have a foundation that MCU has built for itself. 

I'd say DC has a better foundation. Everyone and their brother knows who Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are from decades of media exposure. Your average moviegoer had never heard of Iron Man or Thor or Captain America until their movies came out. That's what worked for Marvel was novelty. Snyder's vision is incredible and far more connected than the initial Marvel movies. None of the first 5 had anything to do with each other other than post credit scenes, while Snyder was telling a massive story in his 3 movies. His original plan was for a 5 part story.

Justice League was just cursed. And I say that as an atheist. The WB execs demanded it be released last year in order to collect their bonus and so when Snyder had to step away due to his daughter's death Whedon was given full power to trim and cut and redo whatever he wanted so long as he could spit out a 2 hour movie. That's not a recipe for making a great movie. And then they released it between Thor and Star Wars, when all previous DC movies had come out in the summer. Despite all this, Justice League had a very favourable audience reception from those who saw it, coming in ahead of all the previous Snyder movies and SS at 85 on Rotten Tomatoes. If WB would just stop messing with their directors I don't think there'd even be a discussion.

If we only compare the first 4 movies from each studio then the balance tilts even more in favour of DC. Marvel overcame their worse performance to be what they are now. There's no reason DC can't do the same from a better position. For my money Marvel is in trouble once it loses RDJ and the rest of the original cast. Apart from Black Panther, he was in all of their biggest hits. Maybe adding in the X--men and F4 will make up for it.

[lebrick]

53 minutes ago, jeff_14 said:

I'd say DC has a better foundation. Everyone and their brother knows who Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are from decades of media exposure. Your average moviegoer had never heard of Iron Man or Thor or Captain America until their movies came out. That's what worked for Marvel was novelty. Snyder's vision is incredible and far more connected than the initial Marvel movies. None of the first 5 had anything to do with each other other than post credit scenes, while Snyder was telling a massive story in his 3 movies. His original plan was for a 5 part story.

Justice League was just cursed. And I say that as an atheist. The WB execs demanded it be released last year in order to collect their bonus and so when Snyder had to step away due to his daughter's death Whedon was given full power to trim and cut and redo whatever he wanted so long as he could spit out a 2 hour movie. That's not a recipe for making a great movie. And then they released it between Thor and Star Wars, when all previous DC movies had come out in the summer. Despite all this, Justice League had a very favourable audience reception from those who saw it, coming in ahead of all the previous Snyder movies and SS at 85 on Rotten Tomatoes. If WB would just stop messing with their directors I don't think there'd even be a discussion.

If we only compare the first 4 movies from each studio then the balance tilts even more in favour of DC. Marvel overcame their worse performance to be what they are now. There's no reason DC can't do the same from a better position. For my money Marvel is in trouble once it loses RDJ and the rest of the original cast. Apart from Black Panther, he was in all of their biggest hits. Maybe adding in the X--men and F4 will make up for it.

Lol 'Snyder's vision.' Sorry that made me chuckle.

Edited December 10, 2018 by lebrick

[jeff_14]

7 minutes ago, lebrick said:

Lol 'Snyder's vision.' Sorry that made me chuckle.

Still better than "Dance off bro, me and you". And that actually happened on film.

[lebrick]

3 minutes ago, jeff_14 said:

Still better than "Dance off bro, me and you". And that actually happened on film.

Yes and it was one of the best part of the film.

[fuzzy_bricks]

2 hours ago, jeff_14 said:

DC does not have bad movies compared to Marvel. Here's the DC run down - Man of Steel, amazing. BvS, amazing to me at least though widely panned yet highly profitable (people just couldn't handle superheroes being serious like this). SS, meh but very profitable. WW, grand park slam in terms of box office and praise. JL, the second best reviewed DC movie (in the mid 80s) but a box office fail.

Here is Marvel's first 5. Iron Man, awesome all around. Incredible Hulk, the worst in the franchise in every way, far worse than BvS. Iron Man 2, made money but widely panned. Captain America, made very little and just ok. Thor, made even less and was a joke.

DC is in a better position than Marvel was after the same number of movies. The difference is primarily as you noted about tone. Marvel is doing light, live action cartoons as safe for families as Frozen. DC is doing adult oriented movies for the same people who liked 300, Sin City, Watchmen, V for Vendetta. Indeed many of the people making DC movies made those movies. DC opted to forego the more lucrative family audience and target adults. And yet it has made way more money on its first 5 than Marvel did on its first 5. That's an incredible accomplishment.

DC has not failed unless the goal is to make a Marvel movie, which it was not doing until WW and the editing of JL. Aquaman and Shazam will also be more of this type and so while that makes more people happy, the adults like me want to see the full Snyder plan and others like that (ie a proper Suicide Squad movie) mixed in. I almost never rewatch Marvel movies. There's no need. They are all very similar to each other with mostly B list actors and little emotional impact. I enjoy them for what they are and my son and I always have a laugh watching them, but none of them inspire great discussions or emotional responses the way the better DC movies have.

I liked MoS, but I wouldn't call it amazing.  The slugfest at the end just went on for too long.

BvS, I wanted to like it but just can't.  Yes, I have the "Ultimate" edition, but even that doesn't fill all the gaps.  I don't like Luthor's portrayal.  I don't like the Martha thing, as I'm dying I'm suddenly going to call my mom by her first name?  When Batman was swinging Superman through walls, that's where I gave up.  There was just too much packed into this movie.

SS, I didn't enjoy.  WW was fine, but took a dump at the end.

I just watched JL and again, it was fine, I even kind of enjoyed it, I don't think it deserved all the hate it got.  I did not really like the Flash portrayal or as CGI heavy as it was.

Looking back at Iron Man 2, it isn't as good, but it's right there with fan ratings of the DC movies.

I thoroughly enjoyed Captain America and Thor, this is probably where we'll disagree the most.  Thor actually ranks a little higher on the audience rating than Cap does, which I assume we're using because the critic response to DC is not kind. While they didn't make near the money the others did, they also didn't have the name recognition or come out later in the whole "comic book genre".  I would reach for either of these movies before the DCEU stuff, but not before Nolan's trilogy.

[Grynn]

Comparing sales / profit of DC's "first 5" vs. Marvels first 5 is silly, since Marvel took all the risk and set the stage.

Bottom line is, DC movies are generally not as fun to watch. There are many reasons, but it's true. They (some) have many admirable qualities that (most) Marvel films lack, but in the end, it's that experience of laughing, throwing popcorn in your face, and bugging your eyes out to the big fight scene (without having to think too much) that draws a bigger audience, at least these days. Just look at Deadpool's success and it's easy to figure out

I have a feeling Watchmen wouldn't do as well now as it did when it was actually released, fwiw. (Too many uninformed potential ticket buyers passing it up for the safer, more familiar fare)

[The Builder]

18 hours ago, jeff_14 said:

I'd say DC has a better foundation. Everyone and their brother knows who Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are from decades of media exposure. Your average moviegoer had never heard of Iron Man or Thor or Captain America until their movies came out. That's what worked for Marvel was novelty. Snyder's vision is incredible and far more connected than the initial Marvel movies. None of the first 5 had anything to do with each other other than post credit scenes, while Snyder was telling a massive story in his 3 movies. His original plan was for a 5 part story.

Justice League was just cursed. And I say that as an atheist. The WB execs demanded it be released last year in order to collect their bonus and so when Snyder had to step away due to his daughter's death Whedon was given full power to trim and cut and redo whatever he wanted so long as he could spit out a 2 hour movie. That's not a recipe for making a great movie. And then they released it between Thor and Star Wars, when all previous DC movies had come out in the summer. Despite all this, Justice League had a very favourable audience reception from those who saw it, coming in ahead of all the previous Snyder movies and SS at 85 on Rotten Tomatoes. If WB would just stop messing with their directors I don't think there'd even be a discussion.

If we only compare the first 4 movies from each studio then the balance tilts even more in favour of DC. Marvel overcame their worse performance to be what they are now. There's no reason DC can't do the same from a better position. For my money Marvel is in trouble once it loses RDJ and the rest of the original cast. Apart from Black Panther, he was in all of their biggest hits. Maybe adding in the X--men and F4 will make up for it.

I would say that Marvel movies are more popular around the nation. Comparing sells of Marvel and DC. marvel tops DC by millions of dollars! Just one Marvel movie did a little over 2 billion in the box office. And I'm not even adding the rest of the movies. 

I like a lot of the Marvel movies you mentioned. And the thing is, Marvel movies get a lot more famous actors and actresses. And pay a lot for them. 

I think DC should step up their game on making good movies, in my opinion. I'll see how I like Aquaman. But I don't expect much at all.