PayPal Policy Updates and Rate Hikes

[Phil B]

New Paypal Policy/User Agreement goes into effect on Mar 29, 2017. Full document here: https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full?locale.x=en

Contains this:

• Quote

   

  • We are changing the standard transaction fee for sellers selling goods or services online to buyers outside the U.S. from 3.9% to 4.4% plus the existing fixed fee based on the currency.
  • We are changing the standard transaction fee for in store transactions received from buyers outside the U.S. from 3.7% to 4.2%.
  • We are removing the tier based fees we charge to nonprofits who receive payments from senders outside the U.S. and are charging a flat rate of 3.7% plus the existing fixed fee based on the currency for all such transactions.    
  • We are changing the micropayment fees for in store transactions received from buyers outside the U.S. from 6.0% to 6.5% plus the existing fixed fee based on the currency.
  • We are clarifying that we will assess the $20.00 chargeback processing fee for sellers who win a chargeback but are not eligible for Seller Protection.

   

  And I almost forgot:

   

  Quote

   

  • We are adding a non-discouragement clause for sellers that provides:

  • In representations to your customers or in public communications, you agree not to mischaracterize PayPal as a payment method. At all of your points of sale (in whatever form), you agree not to try to dissuade or inhibit your customers from using PayPal; and, if you enable your customers to pay you with PayPal, you agree to treat PayPal’s payment mark at least at par with other payment methods offered.

   

   

Edited February 14, 2017 by Phil B

[TheBrickClique]

Hmmm... I'm thinking that competition thing isn't working out for us after splitting off from eBay?

In fact, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that last point is asking for a legal fight.  

Basically the monopoly online presence for most sellers is telling their customers that they must present them in a favorable light and not discourage their business.   In exchange, we will let you pay us  top dollar to use our service.

This strong-arm tactic has not fared well for big corporations in recent history. 

[DadsAFOL]

I thought the "non-discouragement clause" was going to be something like "don't feel bad seller, its still cheaper than Amazon's fees!"

[Alpinemaps]

Yeah, I'm not thrilled about the price hike. But I'm more pissed that I'm going to have to rejigger my spreadsheet so I don't screw up my calculations for the price change.

[randrace]

 

 

• In representations to your customers or in public communications, you agree not to mischaracterize PayPal as a payment method. At all of your points of sale (in whatever form), you agree not to try to dissuade or inhibit your customers from using PayPal; and, if you enable your customers to pay you with PayPal, you agree to treat PayPal’s payment mark at least at par with other payment methods offered.

 

 

This looks like a response to something. I'm super curious about the incident(s) where a merchant mischaracterized PayPal as a payment method (gasp!) or tried to dissuade a buyer from using PayPal.

[TANV]

It seems the transaction fees for  domestic US transactions remain the same, right?

[Phil B]

8 minutes ago, randrace said:

 

This looks like a response to something. I'm super curious about the incident(s) where a merchant mischaracterized PayPal as a payment method (gasp!) or tried to dissuade a buyer from using PayPal.

If I read it correctly this is trying to say that you cannot charge people a fee for using Paypal on your site if you also have other payment methods that you do not charge for. Likely targeted towards one or more big retailers (although I don't know who) but will potentially affect smaller sellers who claim they need to charge you "Paypal fees" as a buyer (e.g. on BL). Unlikely Paypal will come after those unless during part of a dispute.

[MinifigW]

23 minutes ago, TANV said:

It seems the transaction fees for  domestic US transactions remain the same, right?

That's what I'm hoping.

[brickvoyeur]

PayPal no longer providing buyer protection for "resale" items.

"We are excluding items intended for resale, including single item transactions or transactions that include multiple items, from reimbursement eligibility under our Purchase Protection Program."

I wonder how they will go about determining what falls under this?

 

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full

Edited June 24, 2020 by brickvoyeur

[elmaslıefendi]

12 hours ago, brickvoyeur said:

PayPal no longer providing buyer protection for "resale" items.

"We are excluding items intended for resale, including single item transactions or transactions that include multiple items, from reimbursement eligibility under our Purchase Protection Program."

I wonder how they will go about determining what falls under this?

 

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full

This scummy "company" never fails to surprise me...

[MotorCityMuscle]

So if a lego box shows up full of rocks, too bad, so sad? 

[bbr]

13 hours ago, brickvoyeur said:

PayPal no longer providing buyer protection for "resale" items.

"We are excluding items intended for resale, including single item transactions or transactions that include multiple items, from reimbursement eligibility under our Purchase Protection Program."

I wonder how they will go about determining what falls under this?

 

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full

Eliminating "Dropshipper" protection? If so, that could be a plus.

[Shortbus311]

With Ebay going away from PayPal anyway, I don't see this as a huge issue.

My only concern would be orders I make from bricklink stores. Currently Bricklink offers no kind of buyer protection other than putting a Non-Sending Seller ding on someone's account, but they leave the buyer to request refunds through their payment source. If PayPal sees that you sell a lot of Lego they may assume that any Lego purchases are for resale.

[exracer327]

1 hour ago, Shortbus311 said:

My only concern would be orders I make from bricklink stores. Currently Bricklink offers no kind of buyer protection other than putting a Non-Sending Seller ding on someone's account, but they leave the buyer to request refunds through their payment source. If PayPal sees that you sell a lot of Lego they may assume that any Lego purchases are for resale.

I feel like we need "reseller" better defined, because as you said, how is someone's purchase deemed for a reselling?  I can't find any parameters on paypal's website to define that and I'm almost paranoid to ask.

[crayxlp]

7 hours ago, exracer327 said:

I feel like we need "reseller" better defined, because as you said, how is someone's purchase deemed for a reselling?  I can't find any parameters on paypal's website to define that and I'm almost paranoid to ask.

In my opinion searching for an exact definition in Terms is totally useless.. "NORMAL" ppl do not sell more than 5 sets of LEGO per year. Claiming as unwelcome gifts.. They do not list tens of LEGO sets more to it, if they have like 20 active listings LEGO sets would not comprise more than 4 of them.  surely ebay has skilled programmers and sufficient resources to develop even more complex algorithms.

[BillyBricks]

Not sure if I missed something about Paypal changing their rates or how they calculate them, but I made a sale today of $63.75 and got a Paypal fee of $3.11, which would mean I paid about 4.4% ($2.81) in Paypal fees. The only reason I even thought twice about it was because I had a sale two days ago of $66 and got charged $2.21 ($1.91, so 2.89%). Any insight would be welcome. I know it's not a big deal overall, but I'd like to understand what is going on. 

[Phil B]

14 minutes ago, BillyBricks said:

Not sure if I missed something about Paypal changing their rates or how they calculate them, but I made a sale today of $63.75 and got a Paypal fee of $3.11, which would mean I paid about 4.4% ($2.81) in Paypal fees. The only reason I even thought twice about it was because I had a sale two days ago of $66 and got charged $2.21 ($1.91, so 2.89%). Any insight would be welcome. I know it's not a big deal overall, but I'd like to understand what is going on. 

Was it a foreign buyer? Paypal charges more for foreign transactions.

[MrSam]

I hadn't used paypal a huge amount for selling until the last month dealing with a few more international customers. 
I'm amazed people put up with them - they're horrendous! Fees galore at every turn. 🤢

I've been looking into Transferwise as an alternative and they seem good, but possibly don't provide enough comeback for the buyer to be comfortable.
Would love to know what other alternatives people have looked into. 

[exracer327]

21 minutes ago, BillyBricks said:

Not sure if I missed something about Paypal changing their rates or how they calculate them, but I made a sale today of $63.75 and got a Paypal fee of $3.11, which would mean I paid about 4.4% ($2.81) in Paypal fees. The only reason I even thought twice about it was because I had a sale two days ago of $66 and got charged $2.21 ($1.91, so 2.89%). Any insight would be welcome. I know it's not a big deal overall, but I'd like to understand what is going on. 

You do know you're paying paypal fees on the taxes received as well, right?  I don't know how that applies to international sales as all of mine are domestic.

In my spreadsheet I have to input taxes charged as a separate line item so I can see an accurate paypal fee.

[locidm]

40 minutes ago, BillyBricks said:

Not sure if I missed something about Paypal changing their rates or how they calculate them, but I made a sale today of $63.75 and got a Paypal fee of $3.11, which would mean I paid about 4.4% ($2.81) in Paypal fees. The only reason I even thought twice about it was because I had a sale two days ago of $66 and got charged $2.21 ($1.91, so 2.89%). Any insight would be welcome. I know it's not a big deal overall, but I'd like to understand what is going on. 

 

25 minutes ago, Phil B said:

Was it a foreign buyer? Paypal charges more for foreign transactions.

I would guess it's because it's a foreign buyer as well. Sometimes we get foreign buyers with domestic shipping addresses. As far as I can tell, there is no way to know until you look at the Paypal transaction and calculate the fees like you have done.

[BillyBricks]

1 hour ago, Phil B said:

Was it a foreign buyer? Paypal charges more for foreign transactions.

 

39 minutes ago, locidm said:

 

I would guess it's because it's a foreign buyer as well. Sometimes we get foreign buyers with domestic shipping addresses. As far as I can tell, there is no way to know until you look at the Paypal transaction and calculate the fees like you have done.

This must be it. There were no taxes paid on either order by the buyers, so I was thrown by this as both shipping addresses are in the U.S. It looks like the buyer from today is probably a freight forwarder working out of Florida. Thanks for the insight.