New Program - EBay Authenticate

[Phil B]

http://venturebeat.com/2017/01/12/ebay-to-combat-counterfeiters-with-professional-authenticators-that-inspect-high-end-goods/
 

Quote

 

Dubbed eBay Authenticate, the new service will be powered by a “network of professional authenticators,” and is ultimately designed to encourage buyers to part with cash on expensive items, safe in the knowledge that the merchandise is legitimate.

“We know that many shoppers may be hesitant to purchase high-end products online,” continued Chambers. “This service is designed to help quell some of those concerns — and in turn — enhance the opportunity for our sellers to get top-dollar for their items.”

Sellers opt into the program and pay a fee — an undisclosed amount so far — to access the service. In the product listing, there will be messaging that indicates that the item will be checked by one of the authenticators. Once a sale is complete, the authenticator will personally inspect the item, and then it will be forwarded to the buyer. If, after passing the examination, the consumer receives the goods and they turn out to be fake, eBay says it will refund double the price of the original purchase price.

Notably, if a seller doesn’t opt into the authentication program, a buyer can still elect to use the service, though they will have to cover the cost of the inspection themselves.

 

 

[AirborneAFOL]

This is a significant development.

[Cheese]

How do they authenticate a sealed set? Does that mean they open and check that it's Lego branded blocks? If they don't do that then a buyer could just simply claim that inside was a pile of rubbish or worse bogus bricks and then claim back twice their buy in.

[Phil B]

I don't think they offer this on LEGO just yet. First they do expensive luxury goods like handbags and watches etc.

Perhaps they're working with LEGO something that helps them make this job easier. Maybe open boxes without seals but all contents in an extra specially marked plastic bag that is difficult to reproduce/reseal (actually, as long as the bags are see-through you could now verify with your eyes that the contents are okay).

Or maybe that's just me dreaming ....

[AirborneAFOL]

I agree with Phil. Unlikely to be highly applicable to LEGO in the early phases - but it could definitely pick up steam and incorporate $500+ sets in a v2.0.

[Frank Brickowski]

23 minutes ago, Phil B said:

I don't think they offer this on LEGO just yet. First they do expensive luxury goods like handbags and watches etc.

Perhaps they're working with LEGO something that helps them make this job easier. Maybe open boxes without seals but all contents in an extra specially marked plastic bag that is difficult to reproduce/reseal (actually, as long as the bags are see-through you could now verify with your eyes that the contents are okay).

Or maybe that's just me dreaming ....

Why should they offer the service for LEGO at all? The not to be mentioned cloner company's sets dont need to be inspected by an expert to know they are fake. The companies' names are already spelled differently.

[Val-E]

For Lego, they could just do like Amazon and ask the seller to provide authentification from Lego that they are a legit dealer. Simplest and fastest way to do it.

[Ciglione]

But what will it solve? The fakers still can sell. And the SOB's who buy them still can. I do not see any surplus here. 

Just ban the fakers!

[AirborneAFOL]

But what will it solve? The fakers still can sell. And the SOB's who buy them still can. I do not see any surplus here. 
Just ban the fakers!

It's a massive acknowledgment by Ebay that they see fake goods as an issue, and are beginning to take steps to address it.

This particular program, especially in its early stage, is likely to do very little, and be poorly defined / largely ambiguous. But the third or fourth generation of an authenticity program could very possibly kill off fakers/scammers.

[Martae54]

2 hours ago, Phil B said:

I don't think they offer this on LEGO just yet. First they do expensive luxury goods like handbags and watches

Perhaps they're working with LEGO something that helps them make this job easier. Maybe open boxes without seals but all contents in an extra specially marked plastic bag that is difficult to reproduce/reseal (actually, as long as the bags are see-through you could now verify with your eyes that the contents are okay).

Or maybe that's just me dreaming ....

Agreed and also the "3 A's" , artwork, autographs, and antiques, will all come BEFORE Lego inspectors are hired on. I really cant see it making to Lego, but if it does, what are we talking here?  How do you inspect a MISB ? X-ray? Catscan? 10x magnifier photographs on the seals? No matter what they come up with, this is NOT a problem if you sell authentic Lego. 

[Guest TabbyBoy]

I can see this turning into a big can of worms! All LEGO need to do is place a complex hologram on their boxes and instructions, how hard can it be?

Edited January 13, 2017 by TabbyBoy

[AirborneAFOL]

If buyer's see an option for "Pay extra to authenticate the item?", it may give casual LEGO shoppers a chance to pause and consider the possibility they're buying a fake. That helps people like us, because a soccer mom may be spurred to take a closer look at the item and realize it says Voldemort and not LEGO on the box/listing.

Anything that raises buyer consciousness about fake vs. authentic goods is a win for us. Doesn't matter if the the service actually applies to our goods, as long as the awareness element is there.

[tacsniper]

I can see this as an added value to both seller and buyer for expensive items like handbags, money/coins, stamps, sports cards and the odd trading cards (ie: MTG Black Lotus etc). As long as the seller is not on the hook after eBay deems the item to be legitimate but buyer claim it's fake. The fee maybe worth it for the peace of mind for both parties on high value items.

Edited January 14, 2017 by tacsniper

[waddamon]

High end watches cannot be sold online including eBay, all gray market inventory.

[stackables]

We already have this for sports cards and comics.  I suppose other items are next.  They will just network with the guy from Pawn starts and use all of his contacts to authenticate items

[Frank Brickowski]

6 hours ago, stackables said:

We already have this for sports cards and comics.  I suppose other items are next.  They will just network with the guy from Pawn starts and use all of his contacts to authenticate items

I still dont see how/why this authentication service should ever be applied to LEGO and its clone brands. Of course those clone brands are copying LEGO sets, but they are NOT stating they actually ARE legitimate LEGO sets. That's the big difference between LEGO and the luxury brands this authentication program seems to be really aimed at: Watches or perfumes whose clones DO state that they ARE the original product. LEGO clones do NOT maintain they ARE LEGO. Or has anyone seen a clone set bearing a fake 1:1 LEGO logo + box art + seal codes etc.? All I see is clones that have differently spelled names and that's why the authenticatiion simply does not apply to LEGO sets. It would be like trying to "prove" that "Dr. Thunder" is not "Dr. Pepper" - which is totally obvious without any expert analysis. So how/why should this ever be relevant for LEGO sets?

Edited January 14, 2017 by Frank Brickowski

[Guest TabbyBoy]

17 minutes ago, Frank Brickowski said:

I still dont see how/why this authentication service should ever be applied to LEGO and its clone brands. Of course those clone brands are copying LEGO sets, but they are NOT stating they actually ARE are legitimate LEGO sets. That's the big difference between LEGO and the luxury brands this authentication program seems to be really aimed at: Watches or perfumes whose clones DO state that the ARE the original product. LEGO clones do NOT maintain they ARE LEGO. Or has anyone seen a clone set bearing a fake 1:1 LEGO logo + box art + seal codes etc.? All I see is clones that have differently spelled names and that'S why the authenticatiion simply does not apply to LEGO sets. It would be like trying to "prove" that "Dr. Thunder" is not "Dr. Pepper" - which is totally obvious without any expert analysis. So how/why should this ever be relevant for LEGO sets?

These sellers are getting sneaky, they may well list the item as being LEGO compatible but, I saw this on item# 252706122973:

Product Name         : Star Wars Super Star Destroyer 10221

The above states an incorrect product name as anything made from LEGO & clone bricks does NOT qualify for a 10221 product code on my planet!

These are worse than L***N sellers as not only is the product complete (LEGO bricks make up the L***N missing ones) but, buyers can now buy a "good" knockoff at a fraction of the real thing. I missed this one otherwise I'd have reported it.

I think this is why the prices of SW UCS sets are dropping and is why I no longer buy them.

L***N now have their 17003 CREATORS Sydney Opera House for sale so we can expect the LEGO 10234 to drop in value too. Have you noticed that I've only being buying sets that are not currently knocked off?

L***N's font and close-to-correct-wording is obviously designed to deliberately mislead buyers so I think this could be a candidate for the authentication service. Let's hop that it's not as it'll no longer be worthwhile to sell anything expensive.

The dreadful news for most of us will be even higher fees for the seller and delays for the buyer as every item will need to go to a "check-point" to be examined (hmmm.... cutting seals?) before passing on to the buyer. The problem here is that some buyers will recognise the LEGO font and box art and then make an impulse purchase assuming it's a bargain.

@LEGO... I know 2 of you who are BP members... Tell your bosses to use holographic seals on the boxes! Reselling is expensive enough as it is and I know both of you do it! How else could I get a 4002016 Employee Train Set for £100?

 

 

[Frank Brickowski]

23 minutes ago, TabbyBoy said:

These sellers are getting sneaky, they may well list the item as being LEGO compatible but, I saw this on item# 252706122973:

Product Name         : Star Wars Super Star Destroyer 10221

The above states an incorrect product name as anything made from LEGO & clone bricks does NOT qualify for a 10221 product code on my planet!

These are worse than L***N sellers as not only is the product complete (LEGO bricks make up the L***N missing ones) but, buyers can now buy a "good" knockoff at a fraction of the real thing. I missed this one otherwise I'd have reported it.

I think this is why the prices of SW UCS sets are dropping and is why I no longer buy them.

L***N now have their 17003 CREATORS Sydney Opera House for sale so we can expect the LEGO 10234 to drop in value too. Have you noticed that I've only being buying sets that are not currently knocked off?

L***N's font and close-to-correct-wording is obviously designed to deliberately mislead buyers so I think this could be a candidate for the authentication service. Let's hop that it's not as it'll no longer be worthwhile to sell anything expensive.

The dreadful news for most of us will be even higher fees for the seller and delays for the buyer as every item will need to go to a "check-point" to be examined (hmmm.... cutting seals?) before passing on to the buyer. The problem here is that some buyers will recognise the LEGO font and box art and then make an impulse purchase assuming it's a bargain.

@LEGO... I know 2 of you who are BP members... Tell your bosses to use holographic seals on the boxes! Reselling is expensive enough as it is and I know both of you do it! How else could I get a 4002016 Employee Train Set for £100?

 

 

The description for item# 252706122973 clearly states: IMPORTANT: This is not the original set as sold by Lego.

While he code "10221" is nothing that can be a registered trademark or anything like that, what you get IS in fact a Star Wars Super Star Destroyer in LEGO compatible form. So, while I agree that the offer is indeed "doubtful" and "misleading", I also must admit that it does NOT maintain that you get an original LEGO set. It even says you DO NOT get one. So no buyer who wants an original LEGO 10211 and is able to read, should ever buy this thing here. Of course you HAVE to read the description, but if buyers dont thats not the seller's fault.

So in this case there would not be any need for an authentication service since the procuct description itself says that the set is not authentic. What should the authentication "prove" here? "Yes, the product description was right: It is not authentic, as stated". This might then mean that the buyer actually HAS to pay for what he bought...

My main point being: I just think this Ebay authentication thing does not at all look like the "honest investors' deliverance" some might be hoping for...

Edited January 14, 2017 by Frank Brickowski

[Phil B]

There are several different issues at hand that we (sellers) like EBay to stop. EBay Authenticate might help in stopping some of them, not all.

1. Seller sends authentic, sealed set in good faith to buyer. Buyer receives set, scams the heck out of it, and somehow claims he received a counterfeit (or finds another return reason and ships back a counterfeit). THIS IS WHERE EBAY AUTHENTICATE HELPS. If seller uses EBay Authenticate, EBay will now have proof that the correct item was sent (or at least they will take responsibility). Comparing weights and sizes and doing a seal and sidepanel inspection perhaps - but ideally LEGO improves their set packaging and perhaps switches to a format where you, as a buyer, can check the sets contents before purchasing (open box, clear bags, or going back to boxes that lift open with a clear plastic sealed tray inside). A return request would quickly and in most cases lead to the buyer being banned from EBay,

2. Seller tries to scam buyer by selling full LEGO set, but shipping counterfeit (either in counterfeit box or by substituting the contents). This seller would never opt for EBay Authenticate. If the buyer opts for it, the seller will be exposed as a fraud (potentially at the cost of EBay having to pay back double, but I guess they would take that from the scamming seller most likely). Provided EBay Authenticate can properly inspect a set's contents as per 1.

3. Seller is honest in listing but lists knock-off brand. As per @Frank Brickowski, there is no benefit to EBay Authenticate here. EBay should just block any listings, but I guess they need TLG's action on this (not other sellers) or a big buyer backlash (unlikely, we're just a drop in the ocean). Of course, a legal victory for TLG in China will help tremendously.

[Guest TabbyBoy]

My point and worry is that it may become compulsory for expensive items. We all know that greedy eBay puts profit before anything else and if there's something that they can fleece sellers with, they will.

If TLG win in China, there's nothing to stop L***N or another company changing credientials and starting again. The Chinese governement need to step in to stop forgery and corrupton in their country. I actively avoid Chinese-made products when I can for reasons og poor quality as well as "suspect" production.

[AirborneAFOL]

eBay is facing alot of competitive pressure from LetItGo and other new platforms. Their focusing on ways to maintain their market leadership more than they are milking sellers for profits.

[Guest TabbyBoy]

10 minutes ago, AirborneAFOL said:

eBay is facing alot of competitive pressure from LetItGo and other new platforms. Their focusing on ways to maintain their market leadership more than they are milking sellers for profits.

Bring it on... looking forward to a less greedy alternative. eBid looked good in the UK but, never took off.

[Deano1980]

I'm hoping Facebook marketplace might take off in a big way

[Val-E]

18 minutes ago, Deano1980 said:

I'm hoping Facebook marketplace might take off in a big way

so is he.....

 

[Alpinemaps]

Am I the only one wondering how I can be an authenticater? I'm sure there wnj