Fake, Counterfeit, Knockoff, Illegal, Garbage, Crap Set & Minifigure Thread: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING!

[mizeur]

11 hours ago, Alpinemaps said:

It’s truly a socialist point of view - everyone should be allowed to have everything at a low cost, and IP should belong to all, not just the innovators/creators. 

 

Let's not go there because, for example a company relying on government-enforced IP rights and licensing agreements to restrict competition, it's not really so cut-and-dried as socialist vs capitalist. Or when you have companies lobbying the government to extend IP rights into perpetuity so that a creator's IP never enters the public domain long past the point where the creator or their beneficiaries are the ones reaping the compensation.

Which isn't to say that bogusbricks and counterfeiters are white hats fighting against corporate greed.

It's just to say that bogusbricks being bad actors doesn't mean the system they're exploiting is just. 

[junkrigger]

 

workers (all workers) need to be paid a fair living wage otherwise there will be no one left to afford what is properly due creators, artists, inventors, etc and the companies in such businesses. This will clearly mean cuts to corporate profits and corporate upper management salaries bringing them back in line with numbers from bygone decades, good old days some so ironically yearn for.

 

 

 

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[fuzzy_bricks]

1 hour ago, junkrigger said:

workers (all workers) need to be paid a fair living wage otherwise there will be no one left to afford what is properly due creators, artists, inventors, etc and the companies in such businesses. This will clearly mean cuts to corporate profits and corporate upper management salaries bringing them back in line with numbers from bygone decades, good old days some so ironically yearn for.

 

Good thing bogus bricks got shut down. I’d bet dollars to donuts that those workers weren’t getting a living wage. Hopefully they take this opportunity to get better paying jobs. 

[Guest TabbyBoy]

4 hours ago, ravenb99 said:

Have we ever seen Lego factory pics / used molds?  Are they beautiful and clean looking after use?   Just curious...

My father used to work for Mattel, Tyco and Bandai. From what I saw from used bits from Mattel he used to bring home to show me when I was younger and curious, the Megabloks moulds were certainly not shiny and new. However, I remember them being very smooth inside (a bit like Teflon TBH), in multiple parts and with a very tiny injection hole less than 0.5mm across. As far as the engineering quality, they looked superb and, no doubt, Lego would be even better.

If L***N are using stolen or re-engineered old Lego moulds (Lego logo removed somehow), I'd expect the look and fit of the resulting bricks to be good.

I'd love a tour of a Lego factory, maybe one day?

[marcandre]

5 hours ago, fuzzy_bricks said:

Good thing bogus bricks got shut down. I’d bet dollars to donuts that those workers weren’t getting a living wage. Hopefully they take this opportunity to get better paying jobs. 

Most of what we consume is made by someone not being paid a living wage. 

[BricksBrotha]

6 hours ago, fuzzy_bricks said:

Good thing bogus bricks got shut down. I’d bet dollars to donuts that those workers weren’t getting a living wage. Hopefully they take this opportunity to get better paying jobs. 

Let's stop thinking about money, profit and wages for a second.  Did anyone see the pics, the conditions of manufacture, the size of the room, the fans? Exhaust? 

how many injuries or health complications to the workers has resulted in this operation? How have they polluted the earth? 

To me, these are the more serious crimes rather than stealing a pie of Lego profits. (Still a big NoNo)

[$20 on joe vs dan]

6 hours ago, fuzzy_bricks said:

Good thing bogus bricks got shut down. I’d bet dollars to donuts that those workers weren’t getting a living wage. Hopefully they take this opportunity to get better paying jobs. 

this sounds a bit naive...these are likely uneducated and unskilled factory labor workers working in 3rd country environments and now they lost their jobs...they and their families will suffer.

 

[Ed Mack]

12 hours ago, junkrigger said:

In a forum filled with people who love to hint at how smart they are and how much money they have made, from being so smart, and then claim to be enlivened by any opportunity to troll, I will take that and silence as a clear indication that most here know the facts and their implications as stated above by myself. 

One more great fact, a real crucial one, especially considering the divergence in American and German corporate-labor profit sharing moving into 1980. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codetermination_in_Germany

 

Or rather I should say quite picking on the kids and face a real challenge to your Gordon Gekkoism.

With all due respect, I think most people don't want to start arguing about a topic like this on a LEGO forum, not that they agree with you. 

As a small business owner, my view is different.  I see the American Dream work everyday.  I have employees who have worked hard for me, excel in life.  They have nice homes, investment properties, kids in great colleges and are a positive in society.  While I believe corporate profits should be taxed and treated differently, the American Dream does work for those who are reliable and just show up for work.  But many times, it's people from other countries that prosper more than the American workers I have.   They have a better work ethic and work harder.  In my experience, most people get paid what they are worth in relation to how valuable their job is the business they work for.  

Maybe if these some of these kids and adults get their eyes off their phones and off of social media, they can excel in their jobs and provide a better life for themselves and family.  Many people today look for ways "not to work" instead of just doing the job.  They waste energy everyday looking for ways to avoid hard work.  I see it in my nine year old son.  Smart kid, but is lazy and entitled and it's my fault.  We are raising a generation of snowflakes and cupcakes.

The Lepin situation is just out right theft, though.  They are made with questionable methods, in dirty factories and with stolen intellectual property.  Is LEGO too expensive?  Probably, but to defend these people for buying knockoffs because they cannot afford LEGO sets is silly.  Save your money.  Work harder.  You can't always get what you want.  Sorry.  

[mizeur]

34 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:

 

Maybe if these some of these kids and adults get their eyes off their phones and off of social media, they can excel in their jobs and provide a better life for themselves and family.  Many people today look for ways "not to work" instead of just doing the job.  They waste energy everyday looking for ways to avoid hard work.  I see it in my nine year old son.  Smart kid, but is lazy and entitled and it's my fault.  We are raising a generation of snowflakes and cupcakes.

Seriously, can we avoid sweeping statements founded on nothing more than personal anecdotes? Literally every generation thinks the generations that follow are lazy, delinquent good-for-nothings too caught up in petty distractions. If it wasn't smartphones, it was TV, rock n roll, long hair, drugs, radio soaps, the jitterbug, or the cotton gin. That belief isn't a distinguishing feature.

The rising inequality, however, is different and it predates kids today.

[TANV]

1 minute ago, mizeur said:

Seriously, can we avoid sweeping statements founded on nothing more than personal anecdotes? Literally every generation thinks the generations that follow are lazy, delinquent good-for-nothings too caught up in petty distractions. If it wasn't smartphones, it was TV, rock n roll, long hair, drugs, radio soaps, the jitterbug, or the cotton gin. That belief isn't a distinguishing feature.

The rising inequality, however, is different and it predates kids today.

Don't forget those darn beatniks, Boomers, and bikinis! My word. A woman showing her ankles AND shoulders?! 

[exciter1]

1 hour ago, mizeur said:

Seriously, can we avoid sweeping statements founded on nothing more than personal anecdotes? Literally every generation thinks the generations that follow are lazy, delinquent good-for-nothings too caught up in petty distractions. If it wasn't smartphones, it was TV, rock n roll, long hair, drugs, radio soaps, the jitterbug, or the cotton gin. That belief isn't a distinguishing feature.

The rising inequality, however, is different and it predates kids today.

I welcome it, I'm still trying to live up to the hard work and foundation my parents/grandparents put down for me.

[TheOrcKing]

1 hour ago, TANV said:

My word. A woman showing her ankles AND shoulders?! 

[Ed Mack]

3 hours ago, mizeur said:

Seriously, can we avoid sweeping statements founded on nothing more than personal anecdotes? Literally every generation thinks the generations that follow are lazy, delinquent good-for-nothings too caught up in petty distractions. If it wasn't smartphones, it was TV, rock n roll, long hair, drugs, radio soaps, the jitterbug, or the cotton gin. That belief isn't a distinguishing feature.

The rising inequality, however, is different and it predates kids today.

Personal anecdotes are what I know and relate to, even though it's on a small scale.  I also speak with thousands of different customers every week, from all walks of life, and have a pretty good feel for what is going on.  It is my belief that newer generations are increasingly dependent on parents to support them and if the parents are themselves not capable of success, how can they teach that to their kids?  Maybe the reason for the rising inequality is fewer people today understand how to become successful and are dependent on others to support them.  They don't have the tools or knowledge on how to do basic things.  People travel the path of least resistance more than ever.  Kids will ask Alexa to do their math problems.  We hand out trophies to everyone.  Some states are lowering grade point scales.  What was once a B is now an A.  Excellence is looked down upon or ridiculed by jealous a-holes.  

I feel sorry for my son.  He has to live in this world where his life can be destroyed in minutes by a post on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter.  Social media and technology is a wonderful thing if used properly, but if not used correctly, it destroys lives.  Did Rock and Roll or long hair do that?  Next time you are in a restaurant, look at the families around you.  Many are on their phones.  I am guilty.  Is that the new normal?  People don't want to speak anymore, they want to text so it makes it easy to do the hard things like verbally communicating.  There is an erosion of manners and basic understanding of one another.  It's all about "me."  They want to blame others for their own poor life decisions.  

Inequality has and always will be in the human DNA.  Let's face it, people are not created equal.  Some people are just gifted, whether it's physical, mentally or in family history/wealth.   But inequality has nothing to do with Lepin sets.  Making inequality arguments and excuses for people who buy illegal products because they can't afford a $400 LEGO set is ridiculous.  It's a toy.  

With all of that said, there are sacrifices successful people often make. World class athletes don't get that way by sitting on a couch.  Successful business owners, managers and professionals often work long hours, sacrificing family and free time.  There is a give and take, but it is harder to balance today than ever.  Sure, I wish everyone could get paid $25 an hour or get free college tuition or free health care or free LEGO sets or free whatever, but someone has to pay for it.  Inequalities exist everywhere.  Should Amazon pay more Federal taxes than me?  You bet, but that won't won't deter me from trying to be successful or cause me to make excuses for poor choices made by me.  But many inequalities are often from simple decisions.  Work overtime or watch Youtube?  Get you nails done or pay the water bill?  Hide in the bathroom or engage with a customer?  

One last sweeping statement and then I will get back to work...Most people on this site understand the basic principles of success.  They work hard...Grind it out.  They are educated and look for an edge.  They want to learn and share information.  Most make no excuses.  They are also generous.  I am done with my rant.  Back to chasing the American Dream....

[marcandre]

38 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:

Back to chasing the American Dream....

[HappyHawkeye]

1 hour ago, Ed Mack said:

We hand out trophies to everyone. 

I agree with some of what you said, and disagree with a lot of it too. But the good ol' "trophy" beef makes me laugh every time. Participation trophies have been around since at least when I was a kid, so 30+ years or more. It's not some new phenomenon that is suddenly destroying kids' desire to achieve. My kids & other kids I'm around don't give a rats ass about getting a participation trophy or ribbon - it doesn't make them feel good because they're smart enough to know that every kid getting one doesn't make it special in any way, and it doesn't lessen their desire to want that championship trophy or blue ribbon. Kids get it - but like so much of what's wrong in youth sports, parents seem to blow it out of proportion.

Edited May 1, 2019 by HappyHawkeye

[Ed Mack]

12 minutes ago, marcandre said:

I saw Dusty Rhodes at my local high school some 40 years ago.  Then I saw him shopping at the local Shop Rite after the match and it blew my mind.  These guys shop?  LOL

11 minutes ago, HappyHawkeye said:

I agree with some of what you said, and disagree with a lot of it too. But the good ol' "trophy" beef makes me laugh every time. Participation trophies have been around since at least when I was a kid, so 30+ years or more. It's not some new phenomenon that is suddenly destroying kids' desire to achieve. My kids & other kids I'm around don't give a rats ass about getting a participation trophy or ribbon - it doesn't make them feel good because they're smart enough to know that every kid getting one doesn't make it special in any way, and it doesn't lessen they're desire to want that championship trophy or blue ribbon. Kids get it - but like so much of what's wrong in youth sports, parents seem to blow it out of proportion.

Listen, if you ain't first, you're last.  Period.  LOL

[mizeur]

1 hour ago, Ed Mack said:

Personal anecdotes are what I know and relate to, even though it's on a small scale... It is my belief that newer generations are increasingly dependent on parents to support them and if the parents are themselves not capable of success, how can they teach that to their kids?  Maybe the reason for the rising inequality is fewer people today understand how to become successful and are dependent on others to support them.  They don't have the tools or knowledge on how to do basic things.  People travel the path of least resistance more than ever.  Kids will ask Alexa to do their math problems.  We hand out trophies to everyone.  Some states are lowering grade point scales.  What was once a B is now an A.  Excellence is looked down upon or ridiculed by jealous a-holes.  

I feel sorry for my son.  He has to live in this world where his life can be destroyed in minutes by a post on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter.  Social media and technology is a wonderful thing if used properly, but if not used correctly, it destroys lives.  Did Rock and Roll or long hair do that?  Next time you are in a restaurant, look at the families around you.  Many are on their phones.  I am guilty.  Is that the new normal?  People don't want to speak anymore, they want to text so it makes it easy to do the hard things like verbally communicating.  There is an erosion of manners and basic understanding of one another.  It's all about "me."  They want to blame others for their own poor life decisions.  

Inequality has and always will be in the human DNA.  Let's face it, people are not created equal.  Some people are just gifted, whether it's physical, mentally or in family history/wealth.   But inequality has nothing to do with bogus bricks sets.  Making inequality arguments and excuses for people who buy illegal products because they can't afford a $400 LEGO set is ridiculous.  It's a toy. 

Anecdotes being all you know doesn't make your conclusions any more valid when talking about entire generations. There's little reason to think your experiences are statistically representative or significant. And your interpretations of them introduce even more sources of bias than sample error alone.

You mention that younger generations are more dependent on their parents. You're right. There is actual data backing that up (e.g. more kids living withing their parents into their 20s, reduced household formation). But you're drawing spurious conclusions about the causation.

Recall that in 2008 we had the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. The recovery, even now, is slower in part because of government austerity measures and companies hoarding profit rather than reinvesting it. Credentialism has increased so kids today need more education just to get entry level jobs than their parents did. And those credentials cost more money. And then many of them have to work unpaid internships for years because paid trainee programs and career-track mailroom gigs don't exist anymore.

Those are structural obstacles that have nothing to do with personal responsibility or ambition.

It's also more than a little ironic to use bogusbricks to both call out what's seen as being unique flaws of younger generations and dismiss out of hand the inequality discussion.

 

[Darth_Raichu]

15 minutes ago, mizeur said:

Recall that in 2008 we had the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. The recovery, even now, is slower in part because of government austerity measures and companies hoarding profit rather than reinvesting it. Credentialism has increased so kids today need more education just to get entry level jobs than their parents did. And those credentials cost more money. And then many of them have to work unpaid internships for years because paid trainee programs and career-track mailroom gigs don't exist anymore.

Can you provide some data (preferably in a graph) that show the gap between the top 1% income, middle class, and lower class over say 100 years?  Hard data trumps any intellectual supposition and/or anecdotes 

[dennugsmello]

39 minutes ago, mizeur said:

Anecdotes being all you know doesn't make your conclusions any more valid when talking about entire generations. There's little reason to think your experiences are statistically representative or significant. And your interpretations of them introduce even more sources of bias than sample error alone.

You mention that younger generations are more dependent on their parents. You're right. There is actual data backing that up (e.g. more kids living withing their parents into their 20s, reduced household formation). But you're drawing spurious conclusions about the causation.

Recall that in 2008 we had the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. The recovery, even now, is slower in part because of government austerity measures and companies hoarding profit rather than reinvesting it. Credentialism has increased so kids today need more education just to get entry level jobs than their parents did. And those credentials cost more money. And then many of them have to work unpaid internships for years because paid trainee programs and career-track mailroom gigs don't exist anymore.

Those are structural obstacles that have nothing to do with personal responsibility or ambition.

It's also more than a little ironic to use bogusbricks to both call out what's seen as being unique flaws of younger generations and dismiss out of hand the inequality discussion.

 

You want to know what's wrong with the young generations? Easy. It all starts with the smart phone.

Three core components aid in the destruction of ambition. This includes both family and professional life.

They are...

Pornography, Social media, and Video games.

Each of these "activities" simulates core biological functions for males and females necessary for maturing into adulthood. When engaging in these activities, the brain is tricked. It believes its core motivations are being satisfied. The brain does not realize these virtual conquests are not real, and proceeds to waste entire lives in their pursuit. Only when the victim emerges from the basement do they realize they have been played. And by then, its too late. All they have to show for years glued to a screen is virtual trophies, used Kleenex and fake internet points. Any chance of achieving a fulfilling career, raising a family or building communal worth has been flushed away by a microcomputer.

Now, sit back and ponder this question...Why are these things given away for free?

That is the real question...

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by dennugsmello

[Ed Mack]

2 minutes ago, mizeur said:

Anecdotes being all you know doesn't make your conclusions any more valid when talking about entire generations. There's little reason to think your experiences are statistically representative or significant. And your interpretations of them introduce even more sources of bias than sample error alone.

You mention that younger generations are more dependent on their parents. You're right. There is actual data backing that up (e.g. more kids living withing their parents into their 20s, reduced household formation). But you're drawing spurious conclusions about the causation.

Recall that in 2008 we had the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. The recovery, even now, is slower in part because of government austerity measures and companies hoarding profit rather than reinvesting it. Credentialism has increased so kids today need more education just to get entry level jobs than their parents did. And those credentials cost more money. And then many of them have to work unpaid internships for years because paid trainee programs and career-track mailroom gigs don't exist anymore.

Those are structural obstacles that have nothing to do with personal responsibility or ambition.

It's also more than a little ironic to use bogusbricks to both call out what's seen as being unique flaws of younger generations and dismiss out of hand the inequality discussion.

 

I am not asking to be validated.  This is a discussion.  Some people will agree with me, others will not.  I deal with thousands of people on a weekly basis...do you?  I don't know what you do for a living, but don't underestimate my ability to connect with people on a personal basis.  I am like a bartender.  People tell me their stories.  They tell me about their new jobs or losing an old one.  They tell me about their sicknesses and dead spouses.  They tell me about their kids, jobs, pets, cars, sports teams...whatever.  I deal with rich and poor, all races and religions.  I can only speak for my experiences and they are many. 

You can quote stats and spin impressive words all day, but unless you are in the trenches like I am,  I believe it's hard for a person to relate to what I have to say.  But my business enables me to stay in touch with all types of people and information.  I know how the economy or job market is before any stats are released by the Feds.  I know gas prices are going up before most because I deal with major oil brand reps and chemical reps all day.  I deal with local newspapers and advertisers and news people and contractors and law enforcement and many, many more professions.  

Life's about choices.  Pick the right LEGO sets and you will make money.  You pick the right job/profession and work hard at it,  you will make money.  The world needs machinists and mechanics and plumbers and electricians and jobs that don't require a college degree, but many will scoff at such jobs.   I know landscapers that make $200K a year, but that is below many people.  I know kids with degrees from quality schools making $12 an hour because they picked the wrong major.  They will never use their degree.  I am not saying it is easier to make money today, but the kids and young adults of today are entitled snowflakes in my opinion, with anxieties I never dealt with at such a young age.  I know this.  I see it.  I live it.  It's my fault and my wife's fault and the fault of many other parents out there.  There are exceptions, but those kids are usually too busy being successful in their endeavors to complain about inequality.  

 

 

[Ed Mack]

17 minutes ago, dennugsmello said:

You want to know what's wrong with the young generations? Easy. It all starts with the smart phone.

Three core components aid in the destruction of ambition. This includes both family and professional life.

They are...

Pornography, Social media, and Video games.

Each of these "activities" simulates core biological functions for males and females necessary for maturing into adulthood. When engaging in these activities, the brain is tricked. It believes its core motivations are being satisfied. The brain does not realize these virtual conquests are not real, and proceeds to waste entire lives in their pursuit. Only when the victim emerges from the basement do they realize they have been played. And by then, its too late. All they have to show for years glued to a screen is virtual trophies, used Kleenex and fake internet points. Any chance of achieving a fulfilling career, raising a family or building communal worth has been flushed away by a microcomputer.

Now, sit back and ponder this question...Why are these things given away for free?

That is the real question...

 

In other words, video games and social media are addictive as f***.  Pornography is unknown to me so I cannot really make a comment on it.  

[fuzzy_bricks]

8 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:

The world needs machinists and mechanics and plumbers and electricians and jobs that don't require a college degree, but many will scoff at such jobs.   I know landscapers that make $200K a year, but that is below many people.  I know kids with degrees from quality schools making $12 an hour because they picked the wrong major.  They will never use their degree.  I am not saying it is easier to make money today, but the kids and young adults of today are entitled snowflakes in my opinion, with anxieties I never dealt with at such a young age.  I know this.  I see it.  I live it.  It's my fault and my wife's fault and the fault of many other parents out there.  There are exceptions, but those kids are usually too busy being successful in their endeavors to complain about inequality. 

We really needs to stop pushing college for everyone and as the only path to success.

I went to high school with a guy that started driving truck right out of school.  He didn't incur any student loan debt, didn't spend much money because he was always on the road, and saved up a ton of money in the same time I got my degree.  He's still on the road which I don't envy right now with a family, but it worked/is working for him.  Not glamorous at all, but not every job needs to be to find happiness.

[mizeur]

1 hour ago, Darth_Raichu said:

Can you provide some data (preferably in a graph) that show the gap between the top 1% income, middle class, and lower class over say 100 years?  Hard data trumps any intellectual supposition and/or anecdotes 

This is a well-documented phenomenon that even the noted Trotskyites  cheerleaders of capital at Forbes present as a given: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jessecolombo/2019/02/28/americas-wealth-inequality-is-at-roaring-twenties-levels/

If you want more neutral data, Wikipedia has a nice chart from the CBO showing how inequality has spiked in the last 30 years (though it's a trend that really goes back to the 70s). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States

 

[junkrigger]

If folks can’t acknowledge the tailwinds some generations had based purely on timing then they are not reading the facts enough. This is why there is so much distrust between folks we just don’t believe the same facts, but numbers don’t lie, statistics can be manipulated but if you can’t even acknowledge some basic facts there is no longer even any point in having a conversation. Are you refuting that wealth inequality and the share of company profits shared by workers are at their worst levels ever. Are you denying the huge decrease in once prevalent pensions, or that for every new teacher starting today will have half the retirement package of their parents. Are you saying H1B visas are a great thing, seems to be what your indicating with your immigrant comments. Have you ever had a friend who after receiving the layoff notice had to train their H1B visa replacement, I have known many. This is why Americans will be divided more and more and if things progress this way many will consider each other enemies, we just don’t believe the same facts but there is only one truth and no amount of slickery can change that. To the person asking for charts, try google “ ultra wealthy take more of the pie”.


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[junkrigger]

Like most business owners and corporate managers you sing the praises of immigrants who will work harder, longer, for less. As far as working the trenches. How many homeless youth do you interact with, how many students, how many elderly? If someone doesn't own a car they don't even register right. I have news for you, your whole industry is very likely on the wrong side of history, in 100 years petrol burning vehicles will be viewed the same way cigarettes are today. It takes time but a machine designed to pollute without regard can only be buried for so long until its consequences seep so deeply into the surroundings that all is tainted. I teach homeless youth, teach at university, am a research physicist working on nuclear fusion research. If Reagan had not cut the funding for such research draconianly we might already be realizing clean nearly unlimited energy sources. Nothing said today will matter a s***, the future outcome is all that matters and I encourage all to think very carefully about the decisions and stances they take today as we all will be judged someday. For those that need a refresher on how great the internal combustion engine is for our planet, our bodies and every single living thing I encourage a short time spent in a sealed space with an engine running, after all the earth truly is a sealed space, and a simple calculation could be made to determine how many engines running would be the equivalent of a person sitting in their sealed garage with the engine on.