First eBay sale but need to cancel

[ThRok]

Hi, so I made my first eBay sale. Unfortunately the buyer thought it was free shipping, but it was listed for local pickup. Would that be a hit to my account if I cancel the order on my end or should I ask the buyer to request to cancel the order from his end? As I'm just starting out here, id like to make sure I do things right. NOTE: the buyer already paid for the item (I assume PayPal will auto release the funds back to him once the order is cancelled?). Thanks in advance for imparting your eBay wisdom...

[Lordoflego]

Hi there, if I may ask what are you selling? Couch? Why only local pick up? Would it cost you a lot to ship it even though you didn't offer shipping? You can go into this particular listing and you should have and option to "cancel transaction" and choose "per buyer's request" (or something like that), but again, maybe think about shipping it if it isn't too big (no Lego set is too big to ship-if that's what you sold). If you decide to cancel, shouldn't count against you since its buyer who didn't read description. Also, call eBay to get some help/answers. 

[Val-E]

Check how much you will be out for before cancelling and negotiate with the buyer if you can´t cover the cost o your own. Be sure to be polite but firm and explain everything via ebay messaging. It might be worth taking a small hit if you get your first positive feedback.

Never accept paypal for local pickup - how will you be able to provide shipping tracking so as not be scammed yourself?

Edited September 22, 2016 by Val-E

[sflv]

Can I assume this is a Lego set? So lets say it's something like $20 to ship, I would just eat the cost and learn from the mistake. We have all made similar shipping errors in the past starting out. If you cancel and the buyer refuses, you will still be charged all final value fees even if you don't ship (and refund the money). The buyer can also leave a negative feedback since they did not initiate the cancellation.

[mezzaluna]

what is it

[dcdfan]

He's not picking it up, right? That's on him, not you. Cancel with "problem with buyers address or buyer wants to cancel" if he doesn't want to pick it up.

[gregpj]

7 minutes ago, Val-E said:

Never accept paypal for local pickup - how will you be able to provide shipping tracking so as not be scammed yourself?

There is some back and forth whether this is true, but the safest is to only accept cash for local pickup. As a buyer, it's also the best option since if you show up to pick up your item but its damaged or not as described, and have paid via PayPal, you'll have to go through the hassle of filing a case.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html

[Val-E]

8 minutes ago, gregpj said:

There is some back and forth whether this is true, but the safest is to only accept cash for local pickup. As a buyer, it's also the best option since if you show up to pick up your item but its damaged or not as described, and have paid via PayPal, you'll have to go through the hassle of filing a case.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html

You could always get the buyer to sign for pick-up but why give Paypal a cut for doing nothing when you could get cash on collection instead?

[Cozei]

40 minutes ago, Val-E said:

Check how much you will be out for before cancelling and negotiate with the buyer if you can´t cover the cost o your own. Be sure to be polite but firm and explain everything via ebay messaging. It might be worth taking a small hit if you get your first positive feedback.

Never accept paypal for local pickup - how will you be able to provide shipping tracking so as not be scammed yourself?

 

11 minutes ago, Val-E said:

You could always get the buyer to sign for pick-up but why give Paypal a cut for doing nothing when you could get cash on collection instead?

Sorry to further derail OP.

I definitely agree with not giving Paypal more money, but don't see another downside to accepting Paypal for pickup. I've never actually done in person sales with a stranger from eBay or CL. From the number of no shows people complain about from CL, having your buyer pay ahead via Paypal seems like it would strongly discourage a no-show or other shady activity (esp. if you're restrictive with Paypal and feedback requirements for sale). Maybe I'll do some searching if this has been well hashed out in an old thread, but for now I'm missing the scam angle (?). My perspective is only really from seller on this. As buyer I'd be happy to inspect first. Can you enlighten me briefly on what the scam is you mention?

Thanks.

 

[fuzzy_bricks]

I would use Craigslist for local sales so you don't have to pay fees or deal with disputes.

I'm going to disagree with going ahead and shipping the item.  While we want to provide good service, we can't enable all these buyers that don't read listings.  You shouldn't be out any additional money because the other guys lacks the ability to correctly read an eBay listing.  It should be on him to pick up the item or cancel if he can't.

[diablo2112]

Not worth the hassle and possible negatives to cancel the transaction.  Just ship the item, and learn a lesson here.  If this is your first sale, you REALLY don't want to start off with potential negative feedback and negative marks on your seller dashboard.  Why pickup only?  That's a silly way to use eBay, unless it's something that truly can't be shipped (furniture, etc.).

[gregpj]

54 minutes ago, Cozei said:

 

Sorry to further derail OP.

I definitely agree with not giving Paypal more money, but don't see another downside to accepting Paypal for pickup. I've never actually done in person sales with a stranger from eBay or CL. From the number of no shows people complain about from CL, having your buyer pay ahead via Paypal seems like it would strongly discourage a no-show or other shady activity (esp. if you're restrictive with Paypal and feedback requirements for sale). Maybe I'll do some searching if this has been well hashed out in an old thread, but for now I'm missing the scam angle (?). My perspective is only really from seller on this. As buyer I'd be happy to inspect first. Can you enlighten me briefly on what the scam is you mention?

Thanks.

 

You are not eligible for seller protection without proof of delivery. Unfortunately, that usually means confirmed delivery by a trusted third party such as USPS, UPS, FedEx, etc. 

What is seller protection? It's protection against "I did not receive my item" claims. Here is the scenario...

1. Buyer pays for $400 LEGO set on eBay, chooses Local Pickup during payment option. 
2. Goes through checkout (you have immediate pay required) and pays via credit card using PayPal.
3. You exchange a couple messages, arrange a time and place to meet.
4. Meet goes well, you give LEGO to buyer.
5. A couple days later buyer files an Item Not Received case with PayPal.
6. Now you have to prove you showed up and met the buyer.

The alternate starting from #5.

      5. Buyer files a charge back claim with their credit card company.
      6. PayPal doesn't protect you as a seller, i.e. cover the loss, because you can't prove it was handed over.

eBay follows very different rules. If the buyer agrees to local pickup, they give up their right to file a SNAD or Item Not Received case through eBay. They can do this because they don't offer seller protection against credit card charge backs.

[Cozei]

16 minutes ago, gregpj said:

 

Seriously appreciate your response, and clear logic.

Glad I've never strayed into pickup sales to begin with. I see how the cash pickup would at least avoid the Paypal scenario. Charge backs are a nasty weapon for the evil.

Read this at the eBay policy link:

If you offer payment upon pickup, you'll also need to offer one of the approved electronic methods, and may include this statement in your listing: "Contact me for payment methods to pay on pickup."

 

The 3 listed other allowed payments that would satisfy the "approved electronic methods" are Paypal, Paypal Credit, and Credit Cards though seller's merchant account. Unless I'm missing something a seller would be easily open to the scam even if their intent is to list Pickup and Cash - since you'd also have to offer one of these 3. Damned if you do by the look of it. 
Finishing this thought process: Am I missing a way for clean and seller safe cash at pickup sales?

Edited September 22, 2016 by Cozei

[gregpj]

18 minutes ago, Cozei said:

Seriously appreciate your response, and clear logic.

Glad I've never strayed into pickup sales to begin with. I see how the cash pickup would at least avoid the Paypal scenario. Charge backs are a nasty weapon for the evil.

Read this at the eBay policy link:

If you offer payment upon pickup, you'll also need to offer one of the approved electronic methods, and may include this statement in your listing: "Contact me for payment methods to pay on pickup."

 

The 3 listed other allowed payments that would satisfy the "approved electronic methods" are Paypal, Paypal Credit, and Credit Cards though seller's merchant account. Unless I'm missing something a seller would be easily open to the scam even if their intent is to list Pickup and Cash - since you'd also have to offer one of these 3. Damned if you do by the look of it. 
Finishing this thought process: Am I missing a way for clean and seller safe cash at pickup sales?

You cancel the sale if they pay by PayPal and specify local pickup. eBay, but their own admission, should back you up in case of negative feedback.

Here is the rub.... If you DO NOT offer free shipping, the buyer who chooses local pickup will always contact you about how to pay since they won't want to pay to ship it! If you offer free shipping, there is no incentive to contact you!

[Val-E]

2 hours ago, gregpj said:

You cancel the sale if they pay by PayPal and specify local pickup. eBay, but their own admission, should back you up in case of negative feedback.

Here is the rub.... If you DO NOT offer free shipping, the buyer who chooses local pickup will always contact you about how to pay since they won't want to pay to ship it! If you offer free shipping, there is no incentive to contact you!

Stop making sense!

[gregpj]

1 minute ago, Val-E said:

Stop making sense!

You missed a perfect opportunity for a meme!

I rarely offer free shipping.. I like my buyers to know just how much it costs to ship with Canada Post.

[thoroakenfelder]

4 hours ago, The Rookie said:

 

Hi, so I made my first eBay sale. Unfortunately the buyer thought it was free shipping, but it was listed for local pickup. Would that be a hit to my account if I cancel the order on my end or should I ask the buyer to request to cancel the order from his end? As I'm just starting out here, id like to make sure I do things right. NOTE: the buyer already paid for the item (I assume PayPal will auto release the funds back to him once the order is cancelled?). Thanks in advance for imparting your eBay wisdom...

 

Just FYI. If you do cancel the transaction, you will refund the entire amount but you will receive -$.30 paypal fees. Paypal always takes their cut, even if you refund or cancel a transaction. You always owe them that $.30.

[Val-E]

3 minutes ago, thoroakenfelder said:

Just FYI. If you do cancel the transaction, you will refund the entire amount but you will receive -$.30 paypal fees. Paypal always takes their cut, even if you refund or cancel a transaction. You always owe them that $.30.

Paypal fees, taxes and death are the three inevitables in this world.

[ThRok]

First off, I can't express enough appreciation for the generous information sharing on the BP forums.  Thanks to all for the input!  I ended up calling eBay (thanks @Lordoflego) and they reassured me that (1) cancelling upon buyer's request would not result in a defect against my eBay account and (2) fees from both eBay and PayPal would be reimbursed.  If I see a $0.30 charge on my PayPal account I'll report back to @thoroakenfelder.

I don't know what I was thinking, but here's some of my irrational logic on using local pickup for Lego:  Some of the non-Star Wars 1/2 off Lego I acquired during the WM Jul/Aug sale were branded undesirables" by fellow BP'ers (Friends, Ninjago, City, Disney, and yes .... Elves...).  So I tried to unload those on eBay.  I've come to realize that 50% discount + shipping costs + fees doesn't always secure the lowest profitable selling price on eBay.  There's so much glut of Lego and so many sellers manage to undercut your price ... with FREE SHIPPING!!!  I have no idea how that's possible, other than 75% off maybe?  or $2 clearances?

Anyway, I'm just trying to dispose of some of these 1/2 off sets without too much of a loss.  I tried CL for a couple of months, no takers.  I figured eBay is a little more reputable than CL so that's why I tried Local Pick Up.  And yes ... I will keep the username for a while...

[Zelgazra]

You also need to keep in mind that sales for Lego, across the board, die off considerably during the summer months. You might have much more success trying to offload those sets on local channels like CL from this point going forward into the holiday season. Might be worth re listing on there. 

The other thing that creates some silver lining for me anyway, is that if I don't make as much profit on a set as I might have hoped (which is rare, I typically wait it out until prices hit my target), I look at my buy-in, then calculate how many pennies interest I might have earned if that chunk of change was left in my bank. It's usually about 2 or 3. Pennies. So even 50 cents profit is a better return, and you get your money back to put into something else... gotta count for something!  

[Phil B]

One observation: You acquired "undesirables" in Jul/Aug. It is now end September. Only 2-3 months have passed. You are a rookie seller. What made you expect to sell these that fast, even if they would have been "desirables"?

To sell fast you either need to be an experienced seller with a known store/reputation and lots of followers, or seriously undercut everyone, including retail channels still carrying the products you just acquired (AFAIK nothing from the WM clearance has officially been Retired yet by TLG, though I did not follow this actively) and get a low amount of profit (or even potentially rack up a small loss). Even if you undercut, you still need to hope that people come to your venue (EBay or Amazon) instead of just going to a normal retail store.

Unless you bought these sets with money you cannot miss (in which case please stop doing this), just ride it out. Wait for the right season. Wait till demand picks up. Wait until the set is properly retired.

Case in point: When I started last year I got all excited because I found a 31033 Vehicle Transported at Target for $10 (RRP $25). Was the biggest discount I found at retail so far at that time. Listed it for months but nobody bought it, simply because of the points above and the fact that this set is still available at retail. I just created a permanent listing for it on BrickLink and moved on, will likely list it again on Amazon for the holidays. It will sell at some point.

 

 

[Sfcommando14]

10 hours ago, The Rookie said:

First off, I can't express enough appreciation for the generous information sharing on the BP forums.  Thanks to all for the input!  I ended up calling eBay (thanks @Lordoflego) and they reassured me that (1) cancelling upon buyer's request would not result in a defect against my eBay account and (2) fees from both eBay and PayPal would be reimbursed.  If I see a $0.30 charge on my PayPal account I'll report back to @thoroakenfelder.

I don't know what I was thinking, but here's some of my irrational logic on using local pickup for Lego:  Some of the non-Star Wars 1/2 off Lego I acquired during the WM Jul/Aug sale were branded undesirables" by fellow BP'ers (Friends, Ninjago, City, Disney, and yes .... Elves...).  So I tried to unload those on eBay.  I've come to realize that 50% discount + shipping costs + fees doesn't always secure the lowest profitable selling price on eBay.  There's so much glut of Lego and so many sellers manage to undercut your price ... with FREE SHIPPING!!!  I have no idea how that's possible, other than 75% off maybe?  or $2 clearances?

Anyway, I'm just trying to dispose of some of these 1/2 off sets without too much of a loss.  I tried CL for a couple of months, no takers.  I figured eBay is a little more reputable than CL so that's why I tried Local Pick Up.  And yes ... I will keep the username for a while...

Your best bet with sets like this is to bundle and sell on Facebook groups or CL.  I personally have had much more luck on FB.  But there is always a lesson to be learned...just because a set is 50% off doesn't mean it is the best place to put your limited resources.  I have a couple bins of "junk" that I have money tied up in that may never see a profit (but I have two kids who get invited to parties...so I'm already dumping it).  This was mostly stuff bought early (Dec 15-Mar 16) and mostly involves the non-AFOL lines you mentioned in this post.  As long as it is Disney Princess (not the Palace Pets) I would hold onto it.  If you have some Friends/Ninjago/City that pair or group together well, put them together on FB and give it a whirl.  But understand your prices have to beat Amazon, probably by more than 10-20% for them to bite.  Good luck!

[ThRok]

On 9/22/2016 at 8:59 PM, Zelgazra said:

You also need to keep in mind that sales for Lego, across the board, die off considerably during the summer months. You might have much more success trying to offload those sets on local channels like CL from this point going forward into the holiday season. Might be worth re listing on there. 

The other thing that creates some silver lining for me anyway, is that if I don't make as much profit on a set as I might have hoped (which is rare, I typically wait it out until prices hit my target), I look at my buy-in, then calculate how many pennies interest I might have earned if that chunk of change was left in my bank. It's usually about 2 or 3. Pennies. So even 50 cents profit is a better return, and you get your money back to put into something else... gotta count for something!  

That's what i'm starting to learn as I read through the forums, summer sales apparently are historically slow.  I'm considering selling the sets that I don't care for at cost and hope to get some good feedback from buyers, get some experience selling and build a track record on eBay.  Elves... what was I thinking... *L*

[ThRok]

On 9/23/2016 at 5:21 AM, Phil B said:

One observation: You acquired "undesirables" in Jul/Aug. It is now end September. Only 2-3 months have passed. You are a rookie seller. What made you expect to sell these that fast, even if they would have been "desirables"?

To sell fast you either need to be an experienced seller with a known store/reputation and lots of followers, or seriously undercut everyone, including retail channels still carrying the products you just acquired (AFAIK nothing from the WM clearance has officially been Retired yet by TLG, though I did not follow this actively) and get a low amount of profit (or even potentially rack up a small loss). Even if you undercut, you still need to hope that people come to your venue (EBay or Amazon) instead of just going to a normal retail store.

Unless you bought these sets with money you cannot miss (in which case please stop doing this), just ride it out. Wait for the right season. Wait till demand picks up. Wait until the set is properly retired.

Case in point: When I started last year I got all excited because I found a 31033 Vehicle Transported at Target for $10 (RRP $25). Was the biggest discount I found at retail so far at that time. Listed it for months but nobody bought it, simply because of the points above and the fact that this set is still available at retail. I just created a permanent listing for it on BrickLink and moved on, will likely list it again on Amazon for the holidays. It will sell at some point.

 

 

The answer: impatience and inexperience.  Thankfully, the amount I donated to WM during their summer sale can sit and try to mature over a number of years if that's what it will take.  A lot of the sets have already transitioned into the "gift" pile - I think I'm going to be a Rockstar uncle this Christmas season *LOL*.  I'm really just dabbling in this venture to fund my brick-addiction (building and displaying large Star Wars sets), and to have fun in beating the banks with their measly 0.1% APY.  If that doesn't work out, I'll bow out of buying and selling and just stick to collecting ☺️

[ThRok]

On 9/23/2016 at 6:25 AM, Sfcommando14 said:

Your best bet with sets like this is to bundle and sell on Facebook groups or CL.  I personally have had much more luck on FB.  But there is always a lesson to be learned...just because a set is 50% off doesn't mean it is the best place to put your limited resources.  I have a couple bins of "junk" that I have money tied up in that may never see a profit (but I have two kids who get invited to parties...so I'm already dumping it).  This was mostly stuff bought early (Dec 15-Mar 16) and mostly involves the non-AFOL lines you mentioned in this post.  As long as it is Disney Princess (not the Palace Pets) I would hold onto it.  If you have some Friends/Ninjago/City that pair or group together well, put them together on FB and give it a whirl.  But understand your prices have to beat Amazon, probably by more than 10-20% for them to bite.  Good luck!

That's my lesson learned.  During our summer X-country road trip I had so much fun finding the promised land with 50% off (that fellow BPers had been talking about) that I got carried away.  I really just planned to stock up on Star Wars sets, but when we hit WMs that had already been picked over, I ended up walking out with other themes.  I'll check out FB, thanks for the advise!  

BTW, we passed by your neighborhood (St. Louis, right?) on my way back from vacation.  Keep an eye on your local CL.  Someone was selling 42009 NIB for $150. When I offered to buy, he pulled back saying that he's not sure about selling and may post again later... not sure what that's about but definitely a good price...