What did you do today?

[redghostx]

As we're having polite discourse, I have a question and am looking for an honest, serious answer.

Why does anyone care what someone's sex is or if they're changing gender or identify with a different gender from birth or whatever. There are court cases around NA, including one locally for me, and while it's complicated and I feel for both sides, can't people just support how a person feels and identifies, even if a minor, instead of having to legislate it (see Arkansas). It seems similar to the old thoughts that you'll grow out of being (censored I guess, three letters: rhymes with hay) or you can unlearn it.

Disclaimer: I have both left and right leaning views so that everyone can attack me!


What did I do today? I walked to the playground with my son. He wanted to go to the sand pit and spent all of 45 seconds in it before he quit and went to the playground portion. Whatever.

[$20 on joe vs dan]

26 minutes ago, Mathew said:

If mask wearing in Japan is so common then why was there a shortage:  

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/25/national/japan-mask-shortages-covid19/

The truth is that mask usage around the world was fairly low except in certain parts of Asia before covid. 
 

My concern with long term mask usage is that I believe that it is a constant reminder and conditioning that humans are somehow biohazards.

there will be a ton of new germaphobes coming out of Covid period (if we ever come out at all).  Maybe old norms will no longer be norms...like shaking hands...high fives...maybe hugs will become much more selective..IMO, kinda sad. 

[Mathew]

19 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

there will be a ton of new germaphobes coming out of Covid period (if we ever come out at all).  Maybe old norms will no longer be norms...like shaking hands...high fives...maybe hugs will become much more selective..IMO, kinda sad. 

That’s my fear. Long term changes to human behavior. Making us more reliant on technology. Less human contact and with extreme limitations. It’s a tragedy in the making. Too many people are willing to give up their freedom for a false sense of safety. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Mathew

[Darth_Raichu]

29 minutes ago, dennugsmello said:

 

 

Lol, all I want is consistency (here he goes again).  I have no idea how some people can agree with both of these articles.  And I am well aware there are a lot of people who do.

[Mathew]

2 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

Lol, all I want is consistency (here he goes again).  I have no idea how some people can agree with both of these articles.  And I am well aware there are a lot of people who do.

After you take the red pill everything that the media spews out is nothing but propaganda. I don’t take any of it at face value. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Mathew

[spener90]

5 minutes ago, redghostx said:

As we're having polite discourse, I have a question and am looking for an honest, serious answer.

Why does anyone care what someone's sex is or if they're changing gender or identify with a different gender from birth or whatever. There are court cases around NA, including one locally for me, and while it's complicated and I feel for both sides, can't people just support how a person feels and identifies, even if a minor, instead of having to legislate it (see Arkansas). It seems similar to the old thoughts that you'll grow out of being (censored I guess, three letters: rhymes with hay) or you can unlearn it.

Disclaimer: I have both left and right leaning views so that everyone can attack me!

It's gender Gender Dysphoria, and it is a topic with a whole lot of nuance in it. I'm on the side of it largely being a mental health issue, as more often than not it runs with depression and also suicidal ideation. The question really comes down to how do we handle the dysphoria portion as it presents, and I'm not sure that the best thing to do is simply switch sexes. An example of this would be body dysmorphia, which often presents in anorexia or bulimia, where professionals work to correct thought processes and correct their relationship with food. It would seem logical that a similar tactic would be used in Gender Dysphoria treatment.

Also, I tried to avoid the masculine vs feminine arguments that are often presented as the counter to these things, as they seem to present a persons gender identity as the it falls somewhere on a line that is divided between. As I sit at work right now wearing a pink shirt I would likely be classified on the feminine side of things, even though it has absolutely nothing to do with that, I just look damn good in it. Later, when I go play hockey, I would fall on the masculine side.

I also don't want to sound careless in the way I stated the above. People that experience this should be treated with care and compassion from not only those working in health care, but also the general public. Instead of receiving this care and compassion, they have instead been used as a tool for further division by those holding power and influence.

[Pedilego]

10 minutes ago, redghostx said:

As we're having polite discourse, I have a question and am looking for an honest, serious answer.

Why does anyone care what someone's sex is or if they're changing gender or identify with a different gender from birth or whatever. There are court cases around NA, including one locally for me, and while it's complicated and I feel for both sides, can't people just support how a person feels and identifies, even if a minor, instead of having to legislate it (see Arkansas). It seems similar to the old thoughts that you'll grow out of being (censored I guess, three letters: rhymes with hay) or you can unlearn it.

It's a couple of issues - particularly in Canada - neither of which has anything to do with an adult's ability to make their own decisions about their own life/body.

1. Controlled Speech:

• “addressing [Maxine] by his birth name; referring to [Maxine] as a girl or with female pronouns whether to him directly or to third parties; shall be considered to be family violence under s. 38 of the Family Law Act.”

2. Non-Adult Medical Decision-Making:

• To summarize, there's a risk that a significant amount of young-women may mistakenly choose permanent, life-altering, irreversible damage and have the ability to do so without the consent of a parent, or proper advisement from a medical professional. Context/details below:

 

The Concern:

• It seems to be, partially, a social phenomenon: There's an epidemic amongst teenage girls. Traditional gender dysphoria usually begins in early childhood (4-5). It used to be mostly young boys. It's shifted to 70% adolescent girls, a rise of 4400% from the previous decade (based on data in the UK). 65% of adolescent girls who have discovered transgender identify (without a prior history of it) have done so after a prolonged social media exposure. Trans identification is clustered in friend groups at 70x the expected rate. These statistics seem to indicate there's more to it than an environment of acceptance. We've yet to see a wave of adults come forward looking to transition affirming the current ratios among teens.

The Risk:

• "When you stopped puberty with puberty blockers and go straight to cross-sex hormones, you absolutely guarantee that you will be infertile. When the gender clinicians pushed the parent to start her pre-teen child on hormone blockers, they were proposing that she put the child on a path towards infertility. What's more, even if her daughter did not start puberty blockers and instead waited puberty out and then started cross sex hormones, testosterone, this started all sort of risks of its own: endometrial and ovarian cancer, hysterectomy."
• This, of course, doesn't account for breast-removal, permanent facial hair (even if testosterone is halted), or other side effects.
• "a leaked 2019 report from the Tavistock & Portman Trust Gender Clinic in the UK, [...] showed that rates in self harm and suicidality did not decrease even after puberty suppression for adolescent natal girls. The report was so damning that a governor of the clinic, Dr. Marcus Evans, resigned. He told the press that he feared the clinic was fast tracking youths to transition to no good effect and, in some cases, to their harm."

The Decision-Maker:

• Medical professionals can be discredited for doing anything other than immediately affirming the belief of the adolescent:
• "But the Affirmative Care Standard, which chooses between these diagnoses before a patient has even been examined, has been adopted by nearly every medical accrediting organization: [...] health professionals can assist gender dysphoric individuals with affirming their gender identity, exploring different options for expressing that identity, and making decisions about medical treatment options for alleviating dysphoria. Notice whose medical judgment is in the driver's seat. Hint: It isn't the doctors."
• Currently, adolescents are able to change their identities at High School without knowledge of the parent. (I don't recall if any of this applies to Middle Schools, too.) Soon, they'll be able to go get testosterone treatments, without parental consent or knowledge, during school hours. Eventually, they may even be able to do so at on-campus clinics.

 

"Hay" Comparison:

• "We know that homosexuality can't be eliminated through socialization. [...] We don't have any similar weight of history arguing that we can't treat gender dysphoria."
• "Before gender therapy was in vogue, gender therapists practiced watchful waiting, therapeutic process whose goal was to help a child grow more comfortable in his or her biological sex. [W]atchful waiting was remarkably successful. Several studies indicate that nearly 70% of kids who experienced childhood gender dysphoria and who are not affirmed or socially transitioned, eventually outgrow it."

The Sources:

• Dr. Littman published a study on gender dysphoria, but it was removed because "the conclusions of the study could be used to discredit efforts to support transgender youth" (social pressure not to publish science that goes against the hegemony). It was later republished after careful scrutiny; the results were confirmed.
• Irreversible Damage by Abigail Shrier was written using Dr. Littman's research as a starting point, conducting over 200 interviews. In one interview, a school representative told her "The role of schools has changed. Technically we are an educational institution, right? Reading, writing, and arithmetic--technically that's what we are. But schools have expanded to be the hub of a lot more social services. … Looking at schools as a hub for social justice, …" "Not that we're replacing family. But things that used to be the exclusive domain of family or society, we're asking schools to look at those a little more intentionally."

 

Even the first trans person I watched react to Shrier's research acknowledged that a prolonged medical evaluation was necessary prior to medical intervention.

Full disclosure: I've listened to the book. I haven't read Dr. Littman's studies or the other studies cited by Shrier. I haven't reviewed or even searched for credible studies with evidence for why Affirmative Care, etcetera is medically advisable (yet). This is one of many issues that I'm still looking into myself. But those are the counter-arguments.

[$20 on joe vs dan]

58 minutes ago, Pedilego said:

It's a couple of issues - particularly in Canada - neither of which has anything to do with an adult's ability to make their own decisions about their own life/body.

1. Controlled Speech:

• “addressing [Maxine] by his birth name; referring to [Maxine] as a girl or with female pronouns whether to him directly or to third parties; shall be considered to be family violence under s. 38 of the Family Law Act.”

2. Non-Adult Medical Decision-Making:

• To summarize, there's a risk that a significant amount of young-women may mistakenly choose permanent, life-altering, irreversible damage and have the ability to do so without the consent of a parent, or proper advisement from a medical professional. Context/details below:

 

The Concern:

• It seems to be, partially, a social phenomenon: There's an epidemic amongst teenage girls. Traditional gender dysphoria usually begins in early childhood (4-5). It used to be mostly young boys. It's shifted to 70% adolescent girls, a rise of 4400% from the previous decade (based on data in the UK). 65% of adolescent girls who have discovered transgender identify (without a prior history of it) have done so after a prolonged social media exposure. Trans identification is clustered in friend groups at 70x the expected rate. These statistics seem to indicate there's more to it than an environment of acceptance. We've yet to see a wave of adults come forward looking to transition affirming the current ratios among teens.

The Risk:

• "When you stopped puberty with puberty blockers and go straight to cross-sex hormones, you absolutely guarantee that you will be infertile. When the gender clinicians pushed the parent to start her pre-teen child on hormone blockers, they were proposing that she put the child on a path towards infertility. What's more, even if her daughter did not start puberty blockers and instead waited puberty out and then started cross sex hormones, testosterone, this started all sort of risks of its own: endometrial and ovarian cancer, hysterectomy."
• This, of course, doesn't account for breast-removal, permanent facial hair (even if testosterone is halted), or other side effects.
• "a leaked 2019 report from the Tavistock & Portman Trust Gender Clinic in the UK, [...] showed that rates in self harm and suicidality did not decrease even after puberty suppression for adolescent natal girls. The report was so damning that a governor of the clinic, Dr. Marcus Evans, resigned. He told the press that he feared the clinic was fast tracking youths to transition to no good effect and, in some cases, to their harm."

The Decision-Maker:

• Medical professionals can be discredited for doing anything other than immediately affirming the belief of the adolescent:
• "But the Affirmative Care Standard, which chooses between these diagnoses before a patient has even been examined, has been adopted by nearly every medical accrediting organization: [...] health professionals can assist gender dysphoric individuals with affirming their gender identity, exploring different options for expressing that identity, and making decisions about medical treatment options for alleviating dysphoria. Notice whose medical judgment is in the driver's seat. Hint: It isn't the doctors."
• Currently, adolescents are able to change their identities at High School without knowledge of the parent. (I don't recall if any of this applies to Middle Schools, too.) Soon, they'll be able to go get testosterone treatments, without parental consent or knowledge, during school hours. Eventually, they may even be able to do so at on-campus clinics.

 

"Hay" Comparison:

• "We know that homosexuality can't be eliminated through socialization. [...] We don't have any similar weight of history arguing that we can't treat gender dysphoria."
• "Before gender therapy was in vogue, gender therapists practiced watchful waiting, therapeutic process whose goal was to help a child grow more comfortable in his or her biological sex. [W]atchful waiting was remarkably successful. Several studies indicate that nearly 70% of kids who experienced childhood gender dysphoria and who are not affirmed or socially transitioned, eventually outgrow it."

The Sources:

• Dr. Littman published a study on gender dysphoria, but it was removed because "the conclusions of the study could be used to discredit efforts to support transgender youth" (social pressure not to publish science that goes against the hegemony). It was later republished after careful scrutiny; the results were confirmed.
• Irreversible Damage by Abigail Shrier was written using Dr. Littman's research as a starting point, conducting over 200 interviews. In one interview, a school representative told her "The role of schools has changed. Technically we are an educational institution, right? Reading, writing, and arithmetic--technically that's what we are. But schools have expanded to be the hub of a lot more social services. … Looking at schools as a hub for social justice, …" "Not that we're replacing family. But things that used to be the exclusive domain of family or society, we're asking schools to look at those a little more intentionally."

 

Even the first trans person I watched react to Shrier's research acknowledged that a prolonged medical evaluation was necessary prior to medical intervention.

Full disclosure: I've listened to the book. I haven't read Dr. Littman's studies or the other studies cited by Shrier. I haven't reviewed or even searched for credible studies with evidence for why Affirmative Care, etcetera is medically advisable (yet). This is one of many issues that I'm still looking into myself. But those are the counter-arguments.

I read your post and honestly don't know what to say.  It all sounds like a parent's nightmare.

On topic...I went to Target to buy a properly fitting kids mask for my boy now that his school is opening 5 days a week (8:30-12:30). he's been getting by w/ masks his grandma made for him but they don't fit as well.  Also went to Whole Foods , Prime Deal on spare ribs...Mmmmm

[Mark Twain]

Since this topic is supposed to be about what we did today. . .

I spent a good portion of my day cutting tree roots out of a septic leach field. I’ll let the image of a grown man pulling roots covered in his own crap sit with you for a bit before opining that the activity however disgusting and arguably pointless (since the leach field is likely beyond saving) was still somehow more productive than this thread.

[redghostx]

It's a couple of issues - particularly in Canada - neither of which has anything to do with an adult's ability to make their own decisions about their own life/body.
1. Controlled Speech:

• “addressing [Maxine] by his birth name; referring to [Maxine] as a girl or with female pronouns whether to him directly or to third parties; shall be considered to be family violence under s. 38 of the Family Law Act.”

2. Non-Adult Medical Decision-Making:

• To summarize, there's a risk that a significant amount of young-women may mistakenly choose permanent, life-altering, irreversible damage and have the ability to do so without the consent of a parent, or proper advisement from a medical professional. Context/details below:

 
The Concern:

• It seems to be, partially, a social phenomenon: There's an epidemic amongst teenage girls. Traditional gender dysphoria usually begins in early childhood (4-5). It used to be mostly young boys. It's shifted to 70% adolescent girls, a rise of 4400% from the previous decade (based on data in the UK). 65% of adolescent girls who have discovered transgender identify (without a prior history of it) have done so after a prolonged social media exposure. Trans identification is clustered in friend groups at 70x the expected rate. These statistics seem to indicate there's more to it than an environment of acceptance. We've yet to see a wave of adults come forward looking to transition affirming the current ratios among teens.

The Risk:

• "When you stopped puberty with puberty blockers and go straight to cross-sex hormones, you absolutely guarantee that you will be infertile. When the gender clinicians pushed the parent to start her pre-teen child on hormone blockers, they were proposing that she put the child on a path towards infertility. What's more, even if her daughter did not start puberty blockers and instead waited puberty out and then started cross sex hormones, testosterone, this started all sort of risks of its own: endometrial and ovarian cancer, hysterectomy."
• This, of course, doesn't account for breast-removal, permanent facial hair (even if testosterone is halted), or other side effects.
• "a leaked 2019 report from the Tavistock & Portman Trust Gender Clinic in the UK, [...] showed that rates in self harm and suicidality did not decrease even after puberty suppression for adolescent natal girls. The report was so damning that a governor of the clinic, Dr. Marcus Evans, resigned. He told the press that he feared the clinic was fast tracking youths to transition to no good effect and, in some cases, to their harm."

The Decision-Maker:

• Medical professionals can be discredited for doing anything other than immediately affirming the belief of the adolescent:
• "But the Affirmative Care Standard, which chooses between these diagnoses before a patient has even been examined, has been adopted by nearly every medical accrediting organization: [...] health professionals can assist gender dysphoric individuals with affirming their gender identity, exploring different options for expressing that identity, and making decisions about medical treatment options for alleviating dysphoria. Notice whose medical judgment is in the driver's seat. Hint: It isn't the doctors."
• Currently, adolescents are able to change their identities at High School without knowledge of the parent. (I don't recall if any of this applies to Middle Schools, too.) Soon, they'll be able to go get testosterone treatments, without parental consent or knowledge, during school hours. Eventually, they may even be able to do so at on-campus clinics.

 
"Hay" Comparison:

• "We know that homosexuality can't be eliminated through socialization. [...] We don't have any similar weight of history arguing that we can't treat gender dysphoria."
• "Before gender therapy was in vogue, gender therapists practiced watchful waiting, therapeutic process whose goal was to help a child grow more comfortable in his or her biological sex. [W]atchful waiting was remarkably successful. Several studies indicate that nearly 70% of kids who experienced childhood gender dysphoria and who are not affirmed or socially transitioned, eventually outgrow it."

The Sources:

• Dr. Littman published a study on gender dysphoria, but it was removed because "the conclusions of the study could be used to discredit efforts to support transgender youth" (social pressure not to publish science that goes against the hegemony). It was later republished after careful scrutiny; the results were confirmed.
• Irreversible Damage by Abigail Shrier was written using Dr. Littman's research as a starting point, conducting over 200 interviews. In one interview, a school representative told her "The role of schools has changed. Technically we are an educational institution, right? Reading, writing, and arithmetic--technically that's what we are. But schools have expanded to be the hub of a lot more social services. … Looking at schools as a hub for social justice, …" "Not that we're replacing family. But things that used to be the exclusive domain of family or society, we're asking schools to look at those a little more intentionally."

 
Even the first trans person I watched react to Shrier's research acknowledged that a prolonged medical evaluation was necessary prior to medical intervention.
Full disclosure: I've listened to the book. I haven't read Dr. Littman's studies or the other studies cited by Shrier. I haven't reviewed or even searched for credible studies with evidence for why Affirmative Care, etcetera is medically advisable (yet). This is one of many issues that I'm still looking into myself. But those are the counter-arguments.

It's fascinating. I knew of some of it, but not everything and want to do more research. The US media doesn't do anything other than sensationalize it and politicize it, when there are real effects. It's barely a ripple in Canada. Most important, as it's been noted, is that you can't undo it (yet). I found that the issue currently before the courts in BC has been delicately covered without blatantly picking a side, which I appreciate, but there hasn't been coverage in the underlying reasons for the increase.

I suspect in 50-100 years, society will look back with a wtf were they doing.

[Alpinemaps]

Watching my son take his first ice hockey practice as a Squirt (10U). He’s been playing for 4 1/2 years (he just turned 9). I’ve kept him down at the lower level because you’re technically supposed to be 9 to play Squirts.

Squirts is when they play a full sheet of ice, and start learning the rules (icing, etc).

[keymomachine]

Got an appointment for the Johnson & Johnson vaccine for Saturday morning. Excited to be one and done.

[Mathew]

24 minutes ago, keymomachine said:

Got an appointment for the Johnson & Johnson vaccine for Saturday morning. Excited to be one and done.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/colorado-north-carolina-johnson-and-johnson-vaccine-reactions/

[keymomachine]

39 minutes ago, Mathew said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/colorado-north-carolina-johnson-and-johnson-vaccine-reactions/

 

5 hours ago, Mathew said:

After you take the red pill everything that the media spews out is nothing but propaganda. I don’t take any of it at face value. 

💊 < 💉

[KvHulk]

Imagine if we had a dedicated politics thread for all political discussion?

What did I do today? (well, yesterday). I harvested and trimmed 3 plants and my hands are screaming this morning. I need an automatic trimming machine.

 

[46andTWO]

1 hour ago, KvHulk said:

Imagine if we had a dedicated politics thread for all political discussion?

What did I do today? (well, yesterday). I harvested and trimmed 3 plants and my hands are screaming this morning. I need an automatic trimming machine.

 

What strains?

[lazuli16]

39 minutes ago, 46andTWO said:

What strains?

His hands. 

[$20 on joe vs dan]

3 hours ago, KvHulk said:

Imagine if we had a dedicated politics thread for all political discussion?

What did I do today? (well, yesterday). I harvested and trimmed 3 plants and my hands are screaming this morning. I need an automatic trimming machine.

 

Are you decorating a soccer goal with broccoli?

[if so...you WIN the "What Did You Do Today"]

Edited April 9, 2021 by $20 on joe vs dan

[keymomachine]

2 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

Are you decorating a soccer goal with broccoli?

[if so...you WIN the "What Did You Do Today"]

At first I thought he was working on trees for his HO scale model train layout.

[KvHulk]

1 hour ago, 46andTWO said:

What strains?

'Grape Walker Kush', 'Beary White x 3 Bears OG' & 'Ghost Toof'.

1 hour ago, lazuli16 said:

His hands. 

You're not kidding. I'm sorry I ever cracked my knuckles so much when I was young.

[MusiKyle]

Bought a pinball machine today, Williams Space Shuttle (1984).  It was during the rain but I tarped it as best I could for the 1.5 hour ride home.  Got home and had to label and disconnect about 12 cables and remove the backbox in order to get this thing to the basement but we're rockin' and rollin' now!

[Thanos75]

I love pinball. Im not looking forward to having to move mine to the new house.

[iahawks550]

I've wanted a World Cup Soccer machine (circa:1994??), but they are so pricey.

[TheOrcKing]

8 hours ago, MusiKyle said:

Bought a pinball machine today, Williams Space Shuttle (1984).  It was during the rain but I tarped it as best I could for the 1.5 hour ride home.  Got home and had to label and disconnect about 12 cables and remove the backbox in order to get this thing to the basement but we're rockin' and rollin' now!

Ah, the pinball of my birth. Damn good find there friend.

 

2 hours ago, iahawks550 said:

I've wanted a World Cup Soccer machine (circa:1994??), but they are so pricey.

No surprise that particular machine continues to fetch some good coin. Also the original manufacturing date was February of 1994, you were right on the money.

[Achilles]

I know it's not remotely the same, but I am strongly considering buying one of the ATGames Legends Pinball machines.