STAR WARS VIII - "The Last Jedi" - Movie Discussion

[fossilrock]

4 hours ago, Mathew said:

She gets us.  She just doesn't respect us and cares more about pushing Disney's NWO agenda.  At least in TFA Poe was a cool guy and I really liked the camaraderie between the new characters.  It was the best thing about that movie.  They literally threw out everything good, cool and fun about Star Wars with TLJ.  

I'm no fan of Kathleen Kennedy either, and as time goes on she is really creating a vision that I don't think has a large fan base. I'm a fairly left of center kind of guy, but i'm not a fan of disney's subversive NWO agenda, which I do believe is very much peddled through their media.  We'll see where this all goes, but I can tell you just by simply shopping for merchandise, or even tshirts for a seven year old, it's kind of sad the options you get.  My son doesn't want a "rey shirt" or a "Jyn erso" shirt. To him Poe and Finn are boring.  BB8? Well, he was kinda cool - 3 years ago.  Yet, it seems that when you go to target, etc and look at the Star Wars shirts, most of the shirts being peddled are mindless stormtrooper or first order shirts.  Which makes me think, is this part of their agenda?  Seems that disney is only promoting a female driven matriarchy, where all men are just mindless robotic warriors (or mindless dunses) to serve the matriarchy?  

In the end, I miss the days where you could walk in the store and you saw Chewy, or Han, or Luke on a tshirt.    I rarely if ever see kids wearing star wars shirts, or star wars merchandise, and during halloween very few kids where star wars themed clothes.  Gotta face reality, that this brand is dying on the vine.  

Even with the lego sets, my son is not into the Last Jedi theme...he just doesn't care.  He got a few sets for christmas, and the two last jedi sets he hasn't even opened and he's had more interest in the Lego Batman, and the Guardians of the Galaxy sets.  He likes the thor sets too.  And all of those movies he liked better than the last 3 star wars films.  Granted, it's still disney peddling those films, but that's where it seems to sit with him.  Granted, that's just one kids opinion on the current state of media, but the new Star Wars films are not sitting pretty high with him right now, and I don't think it's sitting high with many kids.  

[jeff_14]

6 minutes ago, fossilrock said:

I'm no fan of Kathleen Kennedy either, and as time goes on she is really creating a vision that I don't think has a large fan base. I'm a fairly left of center kind of guy, but i'm not a fan of disney's subversive NWO agenda, which I do believe is very much peddled through their media.  We'll see where this all goes, but I can tell you just by simply shopping for merchandise, or even tshirts for a seven year old, it's kind of sad the options you get.  My son doesn't want a "rey shirt" or a "Jyn erso" shirt. To him Poe and Finn are boring.  BB8? Well, he was kinda cool - 3 years ago.  Yet, it seems that when you go to target, etc and look at the Star Wars shirts, most of the shirts being peddled are mindless stormtrooper or first order shirts.  Which makes me think, is this part of their agenda?  Seems that disney is only promoting a female driven matriarchy, where all men are just mindless robotic warriors (or mindless dunses) to serve the matriarchy?  

In the end, I miss the days where you could walk in the store and you saw Chewy, or Han, or Luke on a tshirt.    I rarely if ever see kids wearing star wars shirts, or star wars merchandise, and during halloween very few kids where star wars themed clothes.  Gotta face reality, that this brand is dying on the vine.  

Even with the lego sets, my son is not into the Last Jedi theme...he just doesn't care.  He got a few sets for christmas, and the two last jedi sets he hasn't even opened and he's had more interest in the Lego Batman, and the Guardians of the Galaxy sets.  He likes the thor sets too.  And all of those movies he liked better than the last 3 star wars films.  Granted, it's still disney peddling those films, but that's where it seems to sit with him.  Granted, that's just one kids opinion on the current state of media, but the new Star Wars films are not sitting pretty high with him right now, and I don't think it's sitting high with many kids.  

I’m no fan of Kennedy either, but my son and friends are all about Star Wars, and I see shirts and stuff everywhere 

[Mgip21]

There were definitely parts I did not like but I felt the movie was entertaining for sure.  My kids loved it. So my kids loved it and I was entertained A+ in my book

[Darth_Raichu]

Btw, did anyone notice the parallels between last few episodes of Rebels and SW8?  Since the Rebels episodes were done before TLJ was finished, I wonder who was copying paying homage to who...

[jonnyhanukkah]

Man... some of you guys with your Disney conspiracy theories... “Disney is poisoning the water so we’ll all fall in line with their female empowerment agenda!!!” “It’s a Small World was an inside job!!!”

Until Star Wars films stop making billions of dollars each on a consistent basis, enough with the attitude that Star Wars is passé. What a ridiculous notion. It’s true there are many more franchises and series in regular release patterns but Star Wars is still king, with Marvel right there with them for the foreseeable future.

[MrGreedy]

I reckon Snoke's backstory is being held back by Disney for an upcoming TV series set between episodes 6 and 7.

[fossilrock]

21 minutes ago, MrGreedy said:

I reckon Snoke's backstory is being held back by Disney for an upcoming TV series set between episodes 6 and 7.

Boring..

[exciter1]

38 minutes ago, fossilrock said:

Boring..

Pretty true, he's not that interesting from a grand perspective.

[KShine]

4 hours ago, jonnyhanukkah said:

Man... some of you guys with your Disney conspiracy theories... “Disney is poisoning the water so we’ll all fall in line with their female empowerment agenda!!!” “It’s a Small World was an inside job!!!”

I don't mind the social engineering in general (something has to tell people what they should be doing).

Using it to create inclusiveness can be an overall positive for society, but nowadays it is being used to create divisiveness (which can lead to horrifying consequences).

[jonnyhanukkah]

1 hour ago, KShine said:

I don't mind the social engineering in general (something has to tell people what they should be doing).

Using it to create inclusiveness can be an overall positive for society, but nowadays it is being used to create divisiveness (which can lead to horrifying consequences).

One could argue that divisiveness exists because there are still a lot of bigots out there...

Hasn't Star Wars always been about rising up against oppressors?  Oh and what was the racial/species make up of the Empire in the Original Trilogy, by the way? 

[Darth_Raichu]

1 hour ago, KShine said:

I don't mind the social engineering in general (something has to tell people what they should be doing).

Using it to create inclusiveness can be an overall positive for society, but nowadays it is being used to create divisiveness (which can lead to horrifying consequences).

For a moment I was considering what if ep 7-9 were not about the rise of light side like ep4-6 but actually the rise of the dark side a la ep 1-3.  Meaning 7-9 were about how Kylo Ren rose to power just like ep 1-3 showed PAlpatine rising to the throne.  It kind of work with how Kylo evolved from whiny guy in 7 to ambitious monster in 8.  Snoke was just another stepping stone for Kylo just like Dooku and Maul were to Palpatine (which was why Snoke did not matter).  In a sense Kylo already defeated Luke when he force push him to unconsciousness in the flashback. Yoda lost to Palpy in ep3 and he was still able to limp to hiding, but Luke was out cold.  So they had to make Rey powerful very quickly just because Kylo had to fight someone equally as strong in 9 and defeat her.  Maybe at lost of limbs so he could look like Vader by the end.   Bottom line, Kylo would be new Emperor which also would give movies 10-12 a big bad overreaching empire-like entity to rebel against, bringing back the nostalgia of ep 4-6.

However, this means Rey has to lose at the end of 9 as Kylo becomes a new Palpatine like tyrant. There is no way Disney will allow their new female lead to lose like that.  So there goes my idea....

[exciter1]

35 minutes ago, jonnyhanukkah said:

One could argue that divisiveness exists because there are still a lot of bigots out there...

Hasn't Star Wars always been about rising up against oppressors?  Oh and what was the racial/species make up of the Empire in the Original Trilogy, by the way? 

[Hennessy]

17 hours ago, jonnyhanukkah said:

Sorry, I'm gonna be "that guy" for a moment here: I see these complaints all over the internet and I just disagree with every single one of them as they're mostly answered within the movie and cleared up in a second viewing, if not during the first:

1. She doesn't "beat Luke".  She beats an old man.  Luke isn't using the force and Rey is.  Also, If I recall correctly, Luke blew up the Death Star using the force about a day or two after meeting Ben Kenobi.  The force is guiding her, just as it guided Luke.     

2. Ships can't jump to and from hyperspace within such short distances without causing damage or death.  They're also toying with the Resistance.  In fact, THEIR PLAN ACTUALLY WORKS until Kylo fucks up and lets Luke get in his head on Crait.  

3. See above.  The First Order would have destroyed The Resistance were it not for Kylo Ren.

4. Snoke IS weaker than the Emperor/Vader.  He is not Sith.  If we are to assume that the Sith are the most powerful evil Jedi in the galaxy then Snoke does not hold a candle to them.  

5. Poe was not told of the escape plan because he had just disobeyed direct orders from Leia mere hours earlier.  Also, the whole theme of the movie is failure.  Poe's failures.  Luke's failures.  Finn's failures.  etc.  YODA SAYS TO LUKE THAT STUDENTS MUST LEARN FROM FAILURE AS THAT IS THE GREATEST TEACHER. 

6. Again, see Kylo Ren.

7. If this felt like a final episode to you then congratulations.  It's actually quite open ended IMHO.  There is a spark of a rebellion again in the galaxy.  General consensus is that episode 9 will open several years later with the rebellion picking up support among the galaxy and perhaps Rey finding new students to teach with the books she scavenged from Ahch-To.  

8. Mark seems content with how his story played out after coming to terms with it.  I don't see it as a disgrace.  He isn't Jesus Christ.  He is a man who had a moment of doubt and then his whole world crumbled around him with the destruction of the Jedi Temple.   Rian also had to create a reason for why Luke had exiled himself.  What would you have done in Rian's place given where JJ Abrams left things at the end of The Force Awakens?

1. aiming a missile and beating a jedi is something totally different. luke could not beat Dart Vader in Ep.V and Ep. VI.

2. they could jump to other system and than jump back or they could ask other destroyer to jump into system in front of that rebel fleet. And still they could deploy the tie squadrons, there had to be hundreds of ties in Supremacy.

4. the official statement from disney was, that Snoke is stronger than Vader and Emperor.

5. and what luke, finn and other learned from their failures? Only character making any psychological progress is Poe.

8. no, the only statement supporting your statement, that mark is OK with the movie was the one from 26th December released on his twitter, which in my opinion is only damage control from Disney. He repeatedly said he does nt like the story of his character in episode 8 and if you saw his reactions after the premiere, than there is no doubt whether he was happy about the movie or not.

As per what would I do, I am nto a screenwritter, as Rian, but should it be on me, I would at least try to come with a plot and use the plot points I have from Episode 7. He just negated everything new and obscurely unexplained. Who is Snoke? Noone. Who is Phasma - not important. Who is Rey - Noone. What did Luke do all the time - nothing. What is the political story behind FO - not important. Where are the other Empire officers escaping to Unknown Regions in Aftermath - not important. Who are Knights of Ren - not important. Do we have any new character or plot point? No. Did he managed to settle the death of Carrie Fisher? No. etc. etc.

Do you want to know what would be cool story for Last Jedi? Just one idea right out of my mind. Let Rey fall to dark side with Kylo Ren manipulated by SNoke, bring the ******* Thrawn from unknown regions as an emissary of Chiss as a support force against the Snoke, let the Thrawn and Luke join together, Luke challange the Snoke resulting in death of Luke in combat but turning Kylo Ren back to light, so he is the Last Jedi, fighting on the side of Thrawn who fought on side of Anakin Skywalker against Snoke and Rey in Episode IX.

I have seen again for tenth time or so Rogue One and that story is so much better than Last jedi, that it is unbelievable, that it was produced by same company. Empire beeing dangerous and threatening, space battles making sense, decent humor for adults and psychology of characters making sense... omg.

[Darth_Raichu]

40 minutes ago, Hennessy said:

2. they could jump to other system and than jump back or they could ask other destroyer to jump into system in front of that rebel fleet. And still they could deploy the tie squadrons, there had to be hundreds of ties in Supremacy.

There was precedence to that chasing scene in season 1 of Clone Wars.  The Mallevolence (Grievous's ship) was disabled and unable to jump, but the REpublic armada (6-7 big ships) were chasing it with normal speed instead of having 1/2 of the armada jumped to the front of MAllevolence to cut it off.  So you can say there is something in SW universe that prevents that tactic from working. 

[KShine]

25 minutes ago, Hennessy said:

Who is Snoke? Noone. Who is Phasma - not important. Who is Rey - Noone. What did Luke do all the time - nothing. What is the political story behind FO - not important. Where are the other Empire officers escaping to Unknown Regions in Aftermath - not important. Who are Knights of Ren - not important. Do we have any new character or plot point? No. Did he managed to settle the death of Carrie Fisher? No. etc. etc.

So now we know that George and Jerry were the ghost writers of The Last Jedi.

Edited January 4, 2018 by KShine

[jonnyhanukkah]

1 hour ago, Hennessy said:

1. aiming a missile and beating a jedi is something totally different. luke could not beat Dart Vader in Ep.V and Ep. VI.

2. they could jump to other system and than jump back or they could ask other destroyer to jump into system in front of that rebel fleet. And still they could deploy the tie squadrons, there had to be hundreds of ties in Supremacy.

4. the official statement from disney was, that Snoke is stronger than Vader and Emperor.

5. and what luke, finn and other learned from their failures? Only character making any psychological progress is Poe.

8. no, the only statement supporting your statement, that mark is OK with the movie was the one from 26th December released on his twitter, which in my opinion is only damage control from Disney. He repeatedly said he does nt like the story of his character in episode 8 and if you saw his reactions after the premiere, than there is no doubt whether he was happy about the movie or not.

As per what would I do, I am nto a screenwritter, as Rian, but should it be on me, I would at least try to come with a plot and use the plot points I have from Episode 7. He just negated everything new and obscurely unexplained. Who is Snoke? Noone. Who is Phasma - not important. Who is Rey - Noone. What did Luke do all the time - nothing. What is the political story behind FO - not important. Where are the other Empire officers escaping to Unknown Regions in Aftermath - not important. Who are Knights of Ren - not important. Do we have any new character or plot point? No. Did he managed to settle the death of Carrie Fisher? No. etc. etc.

Do you want to know what would be cool story for Last Jedi? Just one idea right out of my mind. Let Rey fall to dark side with Kylo Ren manipulated by SNoke, bring the ******* Thrawn from unknown regions as an emissary of Chiss as a support force against the Snoke, let the Thrawn and Luke join together, Luke challange the Snoke resulting in death of Luke in combat but turning Kylo Ren back to light, so he is the Last Jedi, fighting on the side of Thrawn who fought on side of Anakin Skywalker against Snoke and Rey in Episode IX.

I have seen again for tenth time or so Rogue One and that story is so much better than Last jedi, that it is unbelievable, that it was produced by same company. Empire beeing dangerous and threatening, space battles making sense, decent humor for adults and psychology of characters making sense... omg.

Sigh...

1. Are you an expert on The Force?  If so, I bow to your knowledge.  You either buy the logic of the Star Wars universe or you don't.  Just look at what Anakin was able to do in Episode 1 (pod racing, star ship fighting, etc).  It was clearly established BEFORE she handled the lightsaber that awakened The Force in her that she was adept in hand to hand combat.  She wasn't a farmboy like Luke.  She was a scavenger living on her own for some time. 

2. As the movie mentions, the Resistance fleet is too far out of range for Tie Fighters to succesfully chase them.  They are too close for them to jump in front of.  You either buy the explanation or you don't.  Hey, by the way, how do you feel about sound in space battles?

4. There was never an official statement from Disney or LucasFilm re: Snoke.  Andy Serkis mentioned in an interview the following: "When asked if his character is more powerful than Darth Vader and the Emperor, Serkis said: “Oh, without question. He has limitless resources, let’s put it that way.”"  Doesn't seem like it really answers anything and it certainly isn't canon.

5. It seems like you missed the entire point of Finn's purpose in the film.  In TFA and the beginning of TLJ, Finn was only looking out for himself and Rey.  He had no investment in the Resistance. He only went to Starkiller to save Rey.  He was JUMPING SHIP to go find a place for him and Rey to rendezvous away from the Resistance fleet.  The whole purpose of going to Canto Bight and failing on the Supremacy was so that he could learn that there was more to the universe than just him and Rey.  I refer you to the fight with Phasma where he calls himself "Rebel Scum" and the ensuing battle on Crait where he is willing to sacrifice himself (albeit stupidly as Rose and Poe call out). 

8. Believe what you want about Mark Hamill.  I don't care. 

I think a lot of people are hung up on the fact that these movies are not about the OT characters.  They are primarily focused on Kylo (Ben) and Rey, and to a slightly lesser extent Finn, and Poe.  Han, Luke, and Leia are there as a bridge but they are no longer the focus.  Believe me, I wish we could have had something in the late 80s or early 90s exploring the early years after the destruction of the second Death Star (even just a straight up adaptation of the Thrawn Trilogy) but we lost that chance years ago.  Harrison Ford wanted to move on and we were lucky we got him at all for Force Awakens.

I agree that Han and Luke could have been used better, but again, this was all set up by JJ and his writing partnets off of notes from George Lucas (read the Art of books for both films to see how much of George's blueprint is still on the screen). 

[Mathew]

Ouch. TLJ loses again to a Jumanji remake. The force is weak with this one. ??

[Will 4]

4 hours ago, Darth_Raichu said:

For a moment I was considering what if ep 7-9 were not about the rise of light side like ep4-6 but actually the rise of the dark side a la ep 1-3.  Meaning 7-9 were about how Kylo Ren rose to power just like ep 1-3 showed PAlpatine rising to the throne.  It kind of work with how Kylo evolved from whiny guy in 7 to ambitious monster in 8.  Snoke was just another stepping stone for Kylo just like Dooku and Maul were to Palpatine.

What about Darth Plagueis The Wise?

Edited January 4, 2018 by Will 4

[Darth_Raichu]

4 minutes ago, Will 4 said:

What about Darth Plagueis The Wise?

Yes. That would have been a closer comparison

[exciter1]

A friend of mine pointed out to me that the force flows through all living things.  How the heck did C-3PO see Luke at the end on Crait?  Is Luke so powerful now he can project his image for non-living things?

[jeff_14]

1 minute ago, exciter1 said:

A friend of mine pointed out to me that the force flows through all living things.  How the heck did C-3PO see Luke at the end on Crait?  Is Luke so powerful now he can project his image for non-living things?

I understand he was able to generate an image visible to anything that sees in the normal fashion. The wink was a nice touch

[jonnyhanukkah]

If this is failing then I hope to fail as hard as The Last Jedi

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2018/01/04/4-ways-the-last-jedi-got-slammed-for-performing-as-predicted/#7334d0b1815d

[zskid00]

The name alone will get people in seats at the theaters and make it profitable, but I think Disney will have to deal with Star Wars fatigue if they keep cranking out movies every year and you see audiences split on the results (see Rotten Tomatoes audience scores).  There have been some really subpar movies that were successful at the domestic box office and internationally, but that doesn't make them quality or lasting movies.  

[fossilrock]

20 minutes ago, zskid00 said:

The name alone will get people in seats at the theaters and make it profitable, but I think Disney will have to deal with Star Wars fatigue if they keep cranking out movies every year and you see audiences split on the results (see Rotten Tomatoes audience scores).  There have been some really subpar movies that were successful at the domestic box office and internationally, but that doesn't make them quality or lasting movies.  

I've said it before, i'll say it again.  If the Han Solo movie is a flaming Val avatar, by the time episode 9 rolls around, a lot of people could be tuned out to where it does worse than the last jedi.  I know for the Han Solo movie, i'll give it an opening day chance.  But, I don't care if I see episode 9 opening day unless the first shot in the trailer shows Rey getting force pushed aside as pilot of the Millennium Falcon, then Luke transports his butt onto the Millennium Falcon saying "What's up, MFers- the rebellion has arrived". 

[Mathew]

1 hour ago, jonnyhanukkah said:

If this is failing then I hope to fail as hard as The Last Jedi

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2018/01/04/4-ways-the-last-jedi-got-slammed-for-performing-as-predicted/#7334d0b1815d

Click bait article. Forbes has been swinging back and forth on the film. Must be desperate for page hits.

Per screen average indicates that seats are empty.  Disney strong armed theaters in keeping the movie on all screens for at least four weeks:  https://www.wsj.com/articles/disney-lays-down-the-law-for-theaters-on-star-wars-the-last-jedi-1509528603

Considering the muscle and marketing behind TLJ, it's under performing.  Bottom line is that people are walking out of the theater underwhelmed or angry at the movie.  Only SJW's like yourself and Joe Blows (who pretty much like anything that blows up good) like TLJ.  Disney bought off the critics.