STAR WARS VIII - "The Last Jedi" - Movie Discussion

[Will 4]

3 hours ago, Mathew said:

People who require memes to express themselves are probably the same people who like The Last Jedi.  It’s a Disney Marvel movie with a dash of Spaceballs. If that’s your idea of a Star Wars movie. 

Clearly does not read prequel memes

[Bold-Arrow]

People have the right to fall in love with the movie, totally hate it and anywhere in between .

People also have right to argue and debate why they don’t agree with above opinions.

No one however has the the right to ridicule or shame others in regard to  their opinion . 

[jonnyhanukkah]

8 hours ago, Hennessy said:

Well, the fans pissed by Last jedi are not butthurted, because there were unexpected changes. They are pissed because, the plot o the movie is **** and the everything happening on screen does nto make sense:

1) Rey as a character is a wonder kid. She defeats Kylo, she defeats Pretorian guard, she even beats Luke! With zero training. She can use the force and do everything right without any effort. When there is no risk and no cost in doing it, it is boring.

2) The whole plot with chasing rebel fleet is bullshit. They could jump out of hyperspace from another side, so they could screw the fleet between two destroyers. Or they could deploy TIE squadron to shoot them down.

3) First Order is weak. They are just a bunch of idiots unable to use the power properly. Where are unbeatable characters like Vader, Thrawn, Tarkin etc.

4) Snoke / Kylo story is too weak. The whole killing point is too vague and too fragile to be successful, or Snoke is far weaker than Emperor and vader was.

5) If Poe was told about the escape plan (why he was not, I do not understand), than he would not plan to send finn and rose to that casino planet and that would not result than into pointless killing of escape pods.

6) Battle on Crait is again military ****. Why the **** those AT-MT gorillas did not shoot down Finns speeder? How Rose managed to get back in time to save Finn, why she was trying to save him in the first place when this would kill even more people and finally, why the were not shoot donw by troops/tanks when they crashed down?

7) What is the opening point for eiposode IX? The movie felt like final episode, not the middle one, there is no open plot.

And finally, the issue I personally have with the movie:

The disgrace they made to Luke Skywalker and mainly to Mark Hamill himslef.Everyone knows, that Carrie was using drugs and being little bit crazy and that Harrison did not like star wars fans at all. But Mark Hamill was always the one visiting cons, speaking to fans, loving the universe they created 40 years ago. Then he was lured into this bullshit movie, he naturally could not say no to playing in it (because whole world would hate him) and then he was forced to play his life-defining character in a way, which he was not comfortable with, he did not like and he did not approve and understand. And he even did not receive any dignity in death on screen. He jsut passed away like some tired old hermit. That was ******* worst thing I ever seen on screen, noone deserves this. He warned us several times, that this movie is **** even he does not like, we should listen and never watch.

Sorry, I'm gonna be "that guy" for a moment here: I see these complaints all over the internet and I just disagree with every single one of them as they're mostly answered within the movie and cleared up in a second viewing, if not during the first:

1. She doesn't "beat Luke".  She beats an old man.  Luke isn't using the force and Rey is.  Also, If I recall correctly, Luke blew up the Death Star using the force about a day or two after meeting Ben Kenobi.  The force is guiding her, just as it guided Luke.     

2. Ships can't jump to and from hyperspace within such short distances without causing damage or death.  They're also toying with the Resistance.  In fact, THEIR PLAN ACTUALLY WORKS until Kylo fucks up and lets Luke get in his head on Crait.  

3. See above.  The First Order would have destroyed The Resistance were it not for Kylo Ren.

4. Snoke IS weaker than the Emperor/Vader.  He is not Sith.  If we are to assume that the Sith are the most powerful evil Jedi in the galaxy then Snoke does not hold a candle to them.  

5. Poe was not told of the escape plan because he had just disobeyed direct orders from Leia mere hours earlier.  Also, the whole theme of the movie is failure.  Poe's failures.  Luke's failures.  Finn's failures.  etc.  YODA SAYS TO LUKE THAT STUDENTS MUST LEARN FROM FAILURE AS THAT IS THE GREATEST TEACHER. 

6. Again, see Kylo Ren.

7. If this felt like a final episode to you then congratulations.  It's actually quite open ended IMHO.  There is a spark of a rebellion again in the galaxy.  General consensus is that episode 9 will open several years later with the rebellion picking up support among the galaxy and perhaps Rey finding new students to teach with the books she scavenged from Ahch-To.  

8. Mark seems content with how his story played out after coming to terms with it.  I don't see it as a disgrace.  He isn't Jesus Christ.  He is a man who had a moment of doubt and then his whole world crumbled around him with the destruction of the Jedi Temple.   Rian also had to create a reason for why Luke had exiled himself.  What would you have done in Rian's place given where JJ Abrams left things at the end of The Force Awakens?

[Mathew]

4 minutes ago, jonnyhanukkah said:

8. Mark seems content with how his story played out after coming to terms with it.  I don't see it as a disgrace.  He isn't Jesus Christ.  He is a man who had a moment of doubt and then his whole world crumbled around him with the destruction of the Jedi Temple.   Rian also had to create a reason for why Luke had exiled himself.  What would you have done in Rian's place given where JJ Abrams left things at the end of The Force Awakens?

Wrong.  He's been verbal about how they screwed up his character.  He's recently backpedaled but that's probably because Disney is strong-arming him.  It wouldn't surprise me to see him back in the final Episode to make up for the cluster frack of TLJ.  For what it's worth.  Damage has been done though.

[jonnyhanukkah]

Just now, Mathew said:

Wrong.  He's been verbal about how they screwed up his character.  He's recently backpedaled but that's probably because Disney is strong-arming him.  It wouldn't surprise me to see him back in the final Episode to make up for the cluster frack of TLJ.  For what it's worth.  Damage has been done though.

Like I said, he's come to terms with it, unless you no longer take him at his word (after taking him at his word for everything previous to the clarification tweets).

Mark initially wanted to be the kick ass Jedi Master from the get go.  How did you see that playing out, given that he had exiled himself on Ahch-To?  What alternative story would you have given Luke?  Nobody out there seems to be putting forth a better alternative story.  Nobody complained about this for the 2 years we had to sit and wait to find out why Luke was exiled.  

Do you really believe Disney is strong-arming Mark Hamill?  What does he have to lose at this point?  He is coming back to Episode 9 either way as a force ghost.  That is a given.  

[KShine]

My teenage daughter (and her friends) think that this is the best Star Wars movie ever (Reylo forever).

[Mathew]

Just now, jonnyhanukkah said:

Do you really believe Disney is strong-arming Mark Hamill?  What does he have to lose at this point?  He is coming back to Episode 9 either way as a force ghost.  That is a given.  

Well consider that TLJ is trailing TFA by 20% in gross box office and that a large percentage of fans loathe the film, yes, I can see Disney telling Mark to back down and take back some of what he's said.  They also realize that they need him back for the final film.  He's actually the best thing in TLJ.  The rest of the film is horrible.  I think more fans would be giving it a pass if he lived.

[fuzzy_bricks]

1 minute ago, jonnyhanukkah said:

Like I said, he's come to terms with it, unless you no longer take him at his word (after taking him at his word for everything previous to the clarification tweets).

Mark initially wanted to be the kick ass Jedi Master from the get go.  How did you see that playing out, given that he had exiled himself on Ahch-To?  What alternative story would you have given Luke?  Nobody out there seems to be putting forth a better alternative story.  Nobody complained about this for the 2 years we had to sit and wait to find out why Luke was exiled.  

Do you really believe Disney is strong-arming Mark Hamill?  What does he have to lose at this point?  He is coming back to Episode 9 either way as a force ghost.  That is a given.  

I think Disney will strong arm whoever they want to.  I don't know if it happened here, but I wouldn't put anything past them.

[jeff_14]

10 minutes ago, jonnyhanukkah said:

Sorry, I'm gonna be "that guy" for a moment here: I see these complaints all over the internet and I just disagree with every single one of them as they're mostly answered within the movie and cleared up in a second viewing, if not during the first:

1. She doesn't "beat Luke".  She beats an old man.  Luke isn't using the force and Rey is.  Also, If I recall correctly, Luke blew up the Death Star using the force about a day or two after meeting Ben Kenobi.  The force is guiding her, just as it guided Luke.     

2. Ships can't jump to and from hyperspace within such short distances without causing damage or death.  They're also toying with the Resistance.  In fact, THEIR PLAN ACTUALLY WORKS until Kylo fucks up and lets Luke get in his head on Crait.  

3. See above.  The First Order would have destroyed The Resistance were it not for Kylo Ren.

4. Snoke IS weaker than the Emperor/Vader.  He is not Sith.  If we are to assume that the Sith are the most powerful evil Jedi in the galaxy then Snoke does not hold a candle to them.  

5. Poe was not told of the escape plan because he had just disobeyed direct orders from Leia mere hours earlier.  Also, the whole theme of the movie is failure.  Poe's failures.  Luke's failures.  Finn's failures.  etc.  YODA SAYS TO LUKE THAT STUDENTS MUST LEARN FROM FAILURE AS THAT IS THE GREATEST TEACHER. 

6. Again, see Kylo Ren.

7. If this felt like a final episode to you then congratulations.  It's actually quite open ended IMHO.  There is a spark of a rebellion again in the galaxy.  General consensus is that episode 9 will open several years later with the rebellion picking up support among the galaxy and perhaps Rey finding new students to teach with the books she scavenged from Ahch-To.  

8. Mark seems content with how his story played out after coming to terms with it.  I don't see it as a disgrace.  He isn't Jesus Christ.  He is a man who had a moment of doubt and then his whole world crumbled around him with the destruction of the Jedi Temple.   Rian also had to create a reason for why Luke had exiled himself.  What would you have done in Rian's place given where JJ Abrams left things at the end of The Force Awakens?

Rey still beats way more experienced people than her easily. In New Hope Luke is clearly shown out of his element in the dog fight. He needs Biggs, Wedge and Han to save him and while his one shot that he is already good at is guided by the Force, Rey is possessed by contrast. Mary Sue indeed.

The First Order “plan” only worked because of a highly coincidental sell out by DJ. And mini hyperspace jumps are well established as being possible. Even if they wanted to avoid any danger. A bunch of ships could jump away, then jump back in front of them since they know where they will be. This plan was about as smart as Hitler letting the Brits escape Dunkirk. 

As you say, Luke is an old man and should not just be learning that failure is a teacher. He figured that out big time in Empire Strikes Back.

i dislike how these movies have undone the progress of the main characters from the OT and put them where they were at the start. Leia running a rebel cel, Han smuggling, and Luke being a whiner. When we saw that Luke was exiled in Force Awakens and a glimmer of why, I don’t recall anyone being offended at the time. I’m sure most of us could imagine reasons why he would do that. I doubt many came up with curling up to die. We were likely expecting a plan like why Obi-wan and Yoda were hiding. Off he top of my head, Luke has a vision of the future of a powerful apprentice seeking him out and is waiting for it to come true. 

I applaud the effort to be different, especially after the Force Remakens, but being different is not a guarantee of being good. In this case the blemishes overwhelm the successes. There was much risk taking I enjoyed, but the whole does not hang together, especially with Luke.

[jonnyhanukkah]

4 minutes ago, Mathew said:

Well consider that TLJ is trailing TFA by 20% in gross box office and that a large percentage of fans loathe the film, yes, I can see Disney telling Mark to back down and take back some of what he's said.  They also realize that they need him back for the final film.  He's actually the best thing in TLJ.  The rest of the film is horrible.  I think more fans would be giving it a pass if he lived.

Do me a quick favor and look up the box office for each of the first films in a trilogy versus the second one.  I'll hold.  

[KShine]

Nacho Fries!

[Mathew]

34 minutes ago, jonnyhanukkah said:

Do me a quick favor and look up the box office for each of the first films in a trilogy versus the second one.  I'll hold.  

Jumanji just took the lead.  Sad day for Star Wars.  RIP.

[jonnyhanukkah]

Jumanji just took the lead.  Sad day for Star Wars.  RIP.

Hahahahahahahahaha

Yeah a billion dollars after 3 weeks. What a failure!


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[California92563]

1 hour ago, jonnyhanukkah said:

Sorry, I'm gonna be "that guy" for a moment here: I see these complaints all over the internet and I just disagree with every single one of them as they're mostly answered within the movie and cleared up in a second viewing, if not during the first:

1. She doesn't "beat Luke".  She beats an old man.  Luke isn't using the force and Rey is.  Also, If I recall correctly, Luke blew up the Death Star using the force about a day or two after meeting Ben Kenobi.  The force is guiding her, just as it guided Luke.     

2. Ships can't jump to and from hyperspace within such short distances without causing damage or death.  They're also toying with the Resistance.  In fact, THEIR PLAN ACTUALLY WORKS until Kylo fucks up and lets Luke get in his head on Crait.  

3. See above.  The First Order would have destroyed The Resistance were it not for Kylo Ren.

4. Snoke IS weaker than the Emperor/Vader.  He is not Sith.  If we are to assume that the Sith are the most powerful evil Jedi in the galaxy then Snoke does not hold a candle to them.  

5. Poe was not told of the escape plan because he had just disobeyed direct orders from Leia mere hours earlier.  Also, the whole theme of the movie is failure.  Poe's failures.  Luke's failures.  Finn's failures.  etc.  YODA SAYS TO LUKE THAT STUDENTS MUST LEARN FROM FAILURE AS THAT IS THE GREATEST TEACHER. 

6. Again, see Kylo Ren.

7. If this felt like a final episode to you then congratulations.  It's actually quite open ended IMHO.  There is a spark of a rebellion again in the galaxy.  General consensus is that episode 9 will open several years later with the rebellion picking up support among the galaxy and perhaps Rey finding new students to teach with the books she scavenged from Ahch-To.  

8. Mark seems content with how his story played out after coming to terms with it.  I don't see it as a disgrace.  He isn't Jesus Christ.  He is a man who had a moment of doubt and then his whole world crumbled around him with the destruction of the Jedi Temple.   Rian also had to create a reason for why Luke had exiled himself.  What would you have done in Rian's place given where JJ Abrams left things at the end of The Force Awakens?

Greatly summed up! 

[California92563]

1 hour ago, Mathew said:

Wrong.  He's been verbal about how they screwed up his character.  He's recently backpedaled but that's probably because Disney is strong-arming him.  It wouldn't surprise me to see him back in the final Episode to make up for the cluster frack of TLJ.  For what it's worth.  Damage has been done though.

That is true about mark. I agree that Disney probably made him backpeddle on what he said. I respect him for speaking his mind but it was kind of disrespectful to everyone else that was involved in the film because he spoke way too soon. If he had waited a month to voice how unhappy he was then that would have been perfectly fine. 

[Mathew]

27 minutes ago, jonnyhanukkah said:

Yeah a billion dollars after 3 weeks. What a failure!

It's a Marvel movie.  They all make a billion.  Regardless, the Jumanji remake has taken the box office lead which means TLJ is dropping like those Dreadnought bombs in space.  

Edited January 3, 2018 by Mathew

[California92563]

1 hour ago, jonnyhanukkah said:

Like I said, he's come to terms with it, unless you no longer take him at his word (after taking him at his word for everything previous to the clarification tweets).

Mark initially wanted to be the kick ass Jedi Master from the get go.  How did you see that playing out, given that he had exiled himself on Ahch-To?  What alternative story would you have given Luke?  Nobody out there seems to be putting forth a better alternative story.  Nobody complained about this for the 2 years we had to sit and wait to find out why Luke was exiled.  

Do you really believe Disney is strong-arming Mark Hamill?  What does he have to lose at this point?  He is coming back to Episode 9 either way as a force ghost.  That is a given.  

I really was disappointed with how we didn’t get the badass Jedi master Luke skywalker that I had grown up reading about in the EU books and comic books. I think JJ still has the chance to fix some of the mistakes that were made with TLJ, (most notably luke.) It’s basically a given that snoke will be back and I feel there’s the chance to bring back Luke with how up in the air his fate is. They could easily say he teleported elwhere when he dissipated. Like I mentioned TLJ isn’t perfect but I respect rian for being ballsy and trying something new. One huge win is that he made finn more likable this time around haha. 

[California92563]

42 minutes ago, Mathew said:

Jumanji just took the lead.  Sad day for Star Wars.  RIP.

Jumanji had me sold at Karen Gillan

[mudcatsfan]

9 minutes ago, California92563 said:

I really was disappointed with how we didn’t get the badass Jedi master Luke skywalker that I had grown up reading about in the EU books and comic books. I think JJ still has the chance to fix some of the mistakes that were made with TLJ, (most notably luke.) It’s basically a given that snoke will be back and I feel there’s the chance to bring back Luke with how up in the air his fate is. They could easily say he teleported elwhere when he dissipated. Like I mentioned TLJ isn’t perfect but I respect rian for being ballsy and trying something new. One huge win is that he made finn more likable this time around haha. 

You're still HOLDING ON!!!!!!!!

[fossilrock]

1 hour ago, KShine said:

My teenage daughter (and her friends) think that this is the best Star Wars movie ever (Reylo forever).

But young teen girls are the main target audience in Kathleen Kennedy's misandrist driven star wars universe.  This will be turned into a princess lineup by hell or highwater, dangnabbit!

[mudcatsfan]

8 minutes ago, California92563 said:

Jumanji had me sold at Karen Gillan

[California92563]

9 minutes ago, fossilrock said:

But young teen girls are the main target audience in Kathleen Kennedy's misandrist driven star wars universe.  This will be turned into a princess lineup by hell or highwater, dangnabbit!

I’m really not a fan of Kathleen’s, I feel like she doesn’t get us Star Wars fans. The way they setup a strong female character was bang on in the OT. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by California92563

[Mathew]

9 minutes ago, California92563 said:

I’m really not a fan of Kathleen’s, I feel like she doesn’t get us Star Wars fans. The way they setup a strong female character was bang on in the OT. 

She gets us.  She just doesn't respect us and cares more about pushing Disney's NWO agenda.  At least in TFA Poe was a cool guy and I really liked the camaraderie between the new characters.  It was the best thing about that movie.  They literally threw out everything good, cool and fun about Star Wars with TLJ.  

[California92563]

[Bold-Arrow]

17 minutes ago, California92563 said:

Some stuff demand a warning of some sort ... my eyes are burning .