STAR WARS VIII - "The Last Jedi" - Movie Discussion

[CLMF]

So people are criticizing the fact that Luke did a 180 on his character, but didn't Han do the same thing in TFA? Both these two left their episode 6 selves and became episode 4 versions again just because of Ben.

[tawsauce]

So here's the thing that bothered me about Luke (in addition to the poor writing in general, poor characters and lame humor): Luke Skywalker, the guy who sensed the good in the second most evil man in the galaxy, who was a mass murderer and hunter of Jedi, and wanted to turn him back to the light side of the force, and might I add, succeded, gave up on his nephew, the son of his best friend and his sister, after he sensed a little darkness in him, and wanted to kill him instead of trying to guide him to the light side. We waited 35 years for this.
It's not a problem that we turn our focus on the new characters and such, but it was done in a bizarre and insulting way.

He even admits in the movie that he lost his way for a moment. But at that point it was too late, Ben saw what he was going to do. He didn’t want him to do the same things as his father did, he sensed no good in him. In his mind “Why not stop it before it begins”.

[Mark Twain]

2 hours ago, Skremt said:

So here's the thing that bothered me about Luke (in addition to the poor writing in general, poor characters and lame humor): Luke Skywalker, the guy who sensed the good in the second most evil man in the galaxy, who was a mass murderer and hunter of Jedi, and wanted to turn him back to the light side of the force, and might I add, succeded, gave up on his nephew, the son of his best friend and his sister, after he sensed a little darkness in him, and wanted to kill him instead of trying to guide him to the light side. We waited 35 years for this.

It's not a problem that we turn our focus on the new characters and such, but it was done in a bizarre and insulting way.

I don’t disagree with you persay, but indulge me a moment as I troll you. I use that term “troll” here because I think that is kind of what the film was doing purposefully. You point out an excellent moral distinction between Luke and Vader, yet it was Luke who blew up the first Death Star, killing a million people, and in his own way becoming a mass murderer. Of course it was in the service of good, but man is the logic here dark. I think the film tries too hard to rewrite history and  Disney takes some major risks pissing off fans by destroying our collective happy ending that marked the end of the original trilogy. But at least it was an attempt, albeit a failed one, at taking this franchise someplace newish.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Mark Twain

[NZ-EUG]

So let me wade into this discussion.

In my own opinion this movie left me in shock at the theatre, & not in a positive way.

Not only did it burn down every major story arc that TFA set up. It mocked Luke & devalued the First Order, portraying Hux as a bumbling idiot. Snoke no pay off or backstory keep us invested in him being a credible villain.

No Knights of Ren & gaping plots holes, irrelevant subplots casino mission. General Leia super women spot & the total misrepresentation of Luke Sky Walker character!

My concern is Disney diving this guy a whole new trilogy to mess up more Star Wars lore & create new ridiculous canon.

 

Here is a link to review that totally sums up how if feel about this movie.

 

 

[kumas]

for all the defenders: I could poo into urinal - unexpected and different, but it doesnt mean it is good

[Darth_Raichu]

Fans #xxx1: TLJ is a F-ing trash... butthurt butthurt butthurt....
Fans #yyy2: F-ing BUTTHURT!!!
Di$$ney: So how many times did you watch TLJ ??
Fans #xxx1: Three times,  1st in 4D, 2nd in Imax, 3rd in regular screen
Fans #yyy2: 5 times just to make sure how f-ing bad it was
Di$$ney: Are you going to buy the limited edition TLJ blu ray with bonus Porg keychain?
Fans #xxx1: ABSOLUTELY!!
Fans #yyy2: I am #3 in line yo!!
Di$$ney: evil laugh

 

HAPPY NEW YEAR ALL !!!

 

[binary_storm]

On 31/12/2017 at 1:16 AM, tawsauce said:

Since Luke did nothing like what people thought he would do, the movie gets picked on...
 

I wasn't overly keen with what they did with Luke in this movie, but I had far greater concerns about the tone, humour, pacing, plot, characterisation and dialogue, to be honest.

Based on the three Disney SW movies released thus far, I'm of the opinion that JJ Abrams and Gareth Edwards had a far better handle on the "magic ingredients" needed for a movie to feel like it belongs in the Star Wars galaxy. I'll go out on a limb and say that the Solo movie will feel more like Star Wars too, which would leave TLJ as the outlier. This might have made sense for a standalone movie, or even a separate trilogy, but seems a bit thoughtless for the eighth episode of a nine episode saga, or even just the middle part of this sequel trilogy.

[exciter1]

Force ghost, which one are we getting in IX?

[Hennessy]

Well, the fans pissed by Last jedi are not butthurted, because there were unexpected changes. They are pissed because, the plot o the movie is **** and the everything happening on screen does nto make sense:

1) Rey as a character is a wonder kid. She defeats Kylo, she defeats Pretorian guard, she even beats Luke! With zero training. She can use the force and do everything right without any effort. When there is no risk and no cost in doing it, it is boring.

2) The whole plot with chasing rebel fleet is bullshit. They could jump out of hyperspace from another side, so they could screw the fleet between two destroyers. Or they could deploy TIE squadron to shoot them down.

3) First Order is weak. They are just a bunch of idiots unable to use the power properly. Where are unbeatable characters like Vader, Thrawn, Tarkin etc.

4) Snoke / Kylo story is too weak. The whole killing point is too vague and too fragile to be successful, or Snoke is far weaker than Emperor and vader was.

5) If Poe was told about the escape plan (why he was not, I do not understand), than he would not plan to send finn and rose to that casino planet and that would not result than into pointless killing of escape pods.

6) Battle on Crait is again military ****. Why the **** those AT-MT gorillas did not shoot down Finns speeder? How Rose managed to get back in time to save Finn, why she was trying to save him in the first place when this would kill even more people and finally, why the were not shoot donw by troops/tanks when they crashed down?

7) What is the opening point for eiposode IX? The movie felt like final episode, not the middle one, there is no open plot.

And finally, the issue I personally have with the movie:

The disgrace they made to Luke Skywalker and mainly to Mark Hamill himslef.Everyone knows, that Carrie was using drugs and being little bit crazy and that Harrison did not like star wars fans at all. But Mark Hamill was always the one visiting cons, speaking to fans, loving the universe they created 40 years ago. Then he was lured into this bullshit movie, he naturally could not say no to playing in it (because whole world would hate him) and then he was forced to play his life-defining character in a way, which he was not comfortable with, he did not like and he did not approve and understand. And he even did not receive any dignity in death on screen. He jsut passed away like some tired old hermit. That was ******* worst thing I ever seen on screen, noone deserves this. He warned us several times, that this movie is **** even he does not like, we should listen and never watch.

[Tgnmonster]

This perfectly summarizes my thoughts, and I’m a pretty open minded fan.

[jeff_14]

45 minutes ago, Tgnmonster said:

This perfectly summarizes my thoughts, and I’m a pretty open minded fan.

Agreed. The other thing that bothers me is the nonsense of the space chase. Using hyperspace aside, objects travelling through space do not stop moving or decelerate because they run out of fuel. They just keep going. If the First Order can’t catch them at the start then they can’t catch them at all. 

[California92563]

You guys are trying to find too much logic in a film series that was found off showing the impossible and blowing everyone’s imagination. If you want a realistic Star Wars film then may god have mercy on your soul. With that in mind I’ll leave this here for you realists to reflect upon. 

 

[Bold-Arrow]

2 minutes ago, California92563 said:

You guys are trying to find too much logic in a film series that was found off showing the impossible and blowing everyone’s imagination. If you want a realistic Star Wars film then may god have mercy on your soul. With that in mind I’ll leave this here for you realists to reflect upon. 

 

So Poe pulls out a wand and starts hexing the first order in episode IX . U heard it here first .

[jeff_14]

3 minutes ago, Bold-Arrow said:

 

I don’t have unreasonable logic expectations for movies generally or Star Wars in particular. I have come up with ways that Han’s 12 parsecs comments can make sense. But it is not nit picky to expect a movie to follow its own rules of logic or basic principles of physics. As awesome as it would be if Luke started shooting spaghetti noodles out of his ears in a fight, that would be too far by even Star Wars logic. I am not butt hurt. I am simply offering valid criticism. If that offends you, then it may be your snowflake that is butt hurt. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by jeff_14

[California92563]

I’m just saying the whole complaining about the fuel situation and being able to track people through hyperspace is tiresome and old. The entire galaxy that these films are made off of is fictional so how can anyone know what is realistic and what isn’t? Do you own a gigantic spaceship that flys through space? If so what kind of fuel does it burn and what kinda MPG does it get? These films were primarily made to entertain children and adults alike and expand our imaginations. Children enjoy them for what they are meanwhile a good chunk of the self entitled adult base thinks they know what is realistic in a 100% fictional galaxy and what isn’t. Instead of nit picking every little plot point that you don’t agree with just enjoy it for what it is. Be thankful that we have anything to watch at this point. If George was still steering the ship we’d prolly only have an animated show on CN at best. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by California92563

[California92563]

Believe me I don’t think the film is perfect but the amount of complaining over trivial points is mind blowing. First time around with EP7 everyone complained that it was too simple and familiar and now with this people are saying that it isn’t Star Wars because of how different it is. People need to take a step back and just be happy that we get anything at all. If you don’t like it then vote with your wallets. They all can’t be aces my friends. 

[jeff_14]

37 minutes ago, California92563 said:

I’m just saying the whole complaining about the fuel situation and being able to track people through hyperspace is tiresome and old. The entire galaxy that these films are made off of is fictional so how can anyone know what is realistic and what isn’t? Do you own a gigantic spaceship that flys through space? If so what kind of fuel does it burn and what kinda MPG does it get? These films were primarily made to entertain children and adults alike and expand our imaginations. Children enjoy them for what they are meanwhile a good chunk of the self entitled adult base thinks they know what is realistic in a 100% fictional galaxy and what isn’t. Instead of nit picking every little plot point that you don’t agree with just enjoy it for what it is. Be thankful that we have anything to watch at this point. If George was still steering the ship we’d prolly only have an animated show on CN at best. 

Tiresome and old? The movie came out 2 weeks ago. I have no problem with the tracking through hyperspace idea. That’s something that could conceivably be achieved in time. But getting something as basic as ships only move forward in space with fuel wrong shows the complete lack of care that went into this. They get that people generally die of exposure in space unless you have Force powers. Star Wars generally gets physics right and is partly appreciated for seeming like a plausible place. Even the Force is rooted in something quasi scientific with the midi chlorians.  This glaring fuel in space screw up would be a minor thing if it didn’t undermine the entire premise of the main plot of the movie. 

I wish Lucas was still involved story wise. His absence is becoming more telling as Disney either remakes his previous movies or shows its doesn’t understand its characters the moment it’s not remaking them. My sense is a lot of people are finding a new appeeciation for the truly risky and innovative prequels compared to Disney’s original trilogy lite. Though it doesn’t copy the plot of Empire the way Force Remakens copied New Hope, there is still an awful lot of Empire in the DNA of Last Jedi. Johnson seems to think he’s being clever by doing some of that movie slightly differently while also borrowing the best parts of Return of the Jedi. Johnson and Abrams are good at visualizing the story they have, but Lucas is still miles ahead on the ideas front. How id love to see either director directing a Lucas script. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by jeff_14

[KvHulk]

No one is allowed to have negative opinions about Star Wars and because the entire series is fictitious anything that happens is okay!

*Noted*

Edited January 3, 2018 by KvHulk

[CLMF]

The Last Jedi is bad because the X-Wings have wings. They're in space, hello??? Space is a perfect vacuum, and there is no reason why they would need these to keep themselves suspended without gravity. 

 

[Will 4]

18 minutes ago, CLMF said:

The Last Jedi is bad because the X-Wings have wings. They're in space, hello??? Space is a perfect vacuum, and there is no reason why they would need these to keep themselves suspended without gravity.

Thank you for bringing entertainment to my day

[California92563]

37 minutes ago, jeff_14 said:

Tiresome and old? The movie came out 2 weeks ago. I have no problem with the tracking through hyperspace idea. That’s something that could conceivably be achieved in time. But getting something as basic as ships only move forward in space with fuel wrong shows the complete lack of care that went into this. They get that people generally die of exposure in space unless you have Force powers. Star Wars generally gets physics right and is partly appreciated for seeming like a plausible place. Even the Force is rooted in something quasi scientific with the midi chlorians.  This glaring fuel in space screw up would be a minor thing if it didn’t undermine the entire premise of the main plot of the movie. 

I wish Lucas was still involved story wise. His absence is becoming more telling as Disney either remakes his previous movies or shows its doesn’t understand its characters the moment it’s not remaking them. My sense is a lot of people are finding a new appeeciation for the truly risky and innovative prequels compared to Disney’s original trilogy lite. Though it doesn’t copy the plot of Empire the way Force Remakens copied New Hope, there is still an awful lot of Empire in the DNA of Last Jedi. Johnson seems to think he’s being clever by doing some of that movie slightly differently while also borrowing the best parts of Return of the Jedi. Johnson and Abrams are good at visualizing the story they have, but Lucas is still miles ahead on the ideas front. How id love to see either director directing a Lucas script. 

 Yeah I definitely wasn’t singling you out or anyone else here, I was just talking in general. All I see is people complaining about the fuel thing and what is and isn’t realistic and it makes me cringe because of what it’s regarding to. These are fictional sci fi movies, not war documentaries. I respect rian for going outside of the box and for trying something new. My main gripes are how they handled luke, Phasma being butchered again, and not getting snoke’s backstory. The finn and rose thing was kinda meh too especially their last scene where she drops that line and kissed him. 

[Mathew]

1 hour ago, California92563 said:

You guys are trying to find too much logic in a film series that was found off showing the impossible and blowing everyone’s imagination. If you want a realistic Star Wars film then may god have mercy on your soul. With that in mind I’ll leave this here for you realists to reflect upon. 

 

People who require memes to express themselves are probably the same people who like The Last Jedi.  It’s a Disney Marvel movie with a dash of Spaceballs. If that’s your idea of a Star Wars movie. 

[jeff_14]

54 minutes ago, CLMF said:

The Last Jedi is bad because the X-Wings have wings. They're in space, hello??? Space is a perfect vacuum, and there is no reason why they would need these to keep themselves suspended without gravity. 

 

Ah grasshopper, but they also fly in atmosphere.

[Phil B]

The whole "slowing down" and "burning fuel to travel in space" can make sense assuming these spacecraft are continuously accelerating while traveling. Once out of fuel, a craft would appear to slow down to an observer traveling at the same speed as the accelerating craft.

[exciter1]

25 minutes ago, Mathew said:

People who require memes to express themselves are probably the same people who like The Last Jedi.  It’s a Disney Marvel movie with a dash of Spaceballs. If that’s your idea of a Star Wars movie.