STAR WARS VIII - "The Last Jedi" - Movie Discussion

[Shewie]

^Up

I'm going to see it tonight, no high hopes because I already saw the review that really matters to me and as far as I know it's a soap opera again as the TFA was.
I just hope those unnecessary jokes will be limited to the necessary minimum.

[Pet-Brick-er]

won't go again to the cinema to see an endless  soap opera,  will wait and see at home next disney star wars'. it was a saga, before

[Jeff Mack]

18 minutes ago, Pet-Brick-er said:

won't go again to the cinema to see an endless  soap opera,  will wait and see at home next disney star wars'. it was a saga, before

oh thats overreacting a bit?  The movie was pretty good and there were plenty of issues with the originals as well.  None of them are perfect.  Episodes 1,2,3, well that is a different story.

[Ed Mack]

1 hour ago, Pet-Brick-er said:

won't go again to the cinema to see an endless  soap opera,  will wait and see at home next disney star wars'. it was a saga, before

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/may/12/40-years-of-stars-wars-why-the-blockbuster-saga-is-a-galactic-soap-opera

[Will 4]

1 hour ago, Pet-Brick-er said:

won't go again to the cinema to see an endless  soap opera,  will wait and see at home next disney star wars'. it was a saga, before

Is it not canon enough for you (hit drum and symbol)

[Pet-Brick-er]

1 hour ago, Jeff Mack said:

oh thats overreacting a bit?  The movie was pretty good and there were plenty of issues with the originals as well.  None of them are perfect.  Episodes 1,2,3, well that is a different story.

I agree, the movie was pretty good but every time we say OT is a different story. We are all nostalgics? We are all canonicals? A bit for sure but not only for that. OT has many levels of meanings, I see a saga, you see a soap opera, she sees spaceships, he sees ninjas but they also see history quotations, society criticism, a religion, a language et cetera. It had a bit for everyone, it touched a bit everyone building upon a family story many levels of reading. And most of the people liked it. Lucas' PT lost some of those levels and the reasons we know, disney reasons are very expensive since the beginning so... that's just my opinion

[jaisonline]

No spoilers here. 

I dunno.  I want to come out of the theater loving TLJ but my hopes aren’t too high as i’ve been let done with 5 of the last 6 SW films (Rogue One was good).

Additionally, I couldn’t help myself and read 2 detailed leaks from people who saw it on Monday.  

From what I read, the movie has some fantastic battle moments & beautiful cinematography but 2 major storylines that just seem 100% dumb based on what we learned from the original 6 films & Rogue One .

I have tickets for a noon showing on Friday with my 8 yr old son. Hopefully, i’ll love it.  If not, we can look forward to JJ ending this trilogy with furry bears, Starkiller Base II and our heroes escaping some galactic gangsta.

At the end of the day if my boy enjoys TLJ, I’ll be happy

[Ed Mack]

15 hours ago, jaisonline said:

No spoilers here. 

I dunno.  I want to come out of the theater loving TLJ but my hopes aren’t too high as i’ve been let done with 5 of the last 6 SW films (Rogue One was good).

Additionally, I couldn’t help myself and read 2 detailed leaks from people who saw it on Monday.  

From what I read, the movie has some fantastic battle moments & beautiful cinematography but 2 major storylines that just seem 100% dumb based on what we learned from the original 6 films & Rogue One .

I have tickets for a noon showing on Friday with my 8 yr old son. Hopefully, i’ll love it.  If not, we can look forward to JJ ending this trilogy with furry bears, Starkiller Base II and our heroes escaping some galactic gangsta.

At the end of the day if my boy enjoys TLJ, I’ll be happy

I haven't been to the movies since last December when I saw Rogue One with Jeff.  I don't get out much besides work and my son's swim practices.  So, this is a treat tonight regardless of how good it is.  ?

[jaisonline]

21 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:

I haven't been to the movies since last December when I saw Rogue One with Jeff.  I don't get out much besides work and my son's swim practices.  So, this is a treat tonight regardless of how good it is.  

Ditto here. My son is very excited so it’s a win for me. Another wonderful memory with my son and then daughter when we watch it at home on iTunes 

[fossilrock]

Unfortunately I have wrecked my expectations and hype by being pulled into the darkside of a reddit spoilers thread...  Now, i'm fairly convinced that this movie not only stinks, but so does the ST. 

I did love Rogue One though....  so, I want to say Disney can pull at least a good film together... but this ST needs to die.

[thoroakenfelder]

32 minutes ago, fossilrock said:

I did love Rogue One though....  so, I want to say Disney can pull at least a good film together... but this ST needs to die.

I have to ask, because I see this sentiment all the time. What is it exactly that makes Rogue One a good film?

[Ed Mack]

10 minutes ago, thoroakenfelder said:

I have to ask, because I see this sentiment all the time. What is it exactly that makes Rogue One a good film?

The last five minutes...

[fuzzy_bricks]

3 minutes ago, thoroakenfelder said:

I have to ask, because I see this sentiment all the time. What is it exactly that makes Rogue One a good film?

For me it's the the last act, especially the last few minutes.  The latest scene with Vader wipes from our minds the last thing we saw which was, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO."

Rogue One ends we'll in my opinion, I'll admit that leading up to that though it can be pretty week.  I read the book about the events leading up to it, so I had a little more backstory and investment in the characters, but I still didn't care that they all died.

Having to blowup Starkiller at the end of TFA was kind of downer for me, that's why I would rank RO over TFA. 

[zskid00]

15 minutes ago, thoroakenfelder said:

I have to ask, because I see this sentiment all the time. What is it exactly that makes Rogue One a good film?

To me the story was more compelling and original than TFA, despite it's familiarity with the OT which made absolute sense due to it's close proximity to ANH in the timeline.  For me TFA suffered from trying to replicate the OT to a fault.  The similarity in plot lines was too much for me to stomach considering it was 30 years later.  For me, Rogue One gets credit for being creative within the constraints of the canon and timeline already established, but TFA gets docked because they could have explored so much more and they didn't.  They went back to the formula that worked before and it was glaringly obvious.

Edited December 14, 2017 by zskid00

[Alpinemaps]

I've stayed spoiler free, and planning on exiting the Internet in a little while here.

The only thing I spoiled for myself (sadly) is the title of the soundtrack tracks.  Because that also reveals the order of the film, too.

[thoroakenfelder]

2 hours ago, Ed Mack said:

The last five minutes...

 

2 hours ago, fuzzy_bricks said:

For me it's the the last act, especially the last few minutes.  The latest scene with Vader wipes from our minds the last thing we saw which was, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO."

Rogue One ends we'll in my opinion, I'll admit that leading up to that though it can be pretty week.  I read the book about the events leading up to it, so I had a little more backstory and investment in the characters, but I still didn't care that they all died.

As @Ed Mack and @fuzzy_bricks expressed pretty much the same opinion, let me renew my question in a slightly different way. Why is it that the last few minutes of a 2+ hour movie are what makes a good movie? It's frequently people talking about the hallway fight or the space battle, but never about the movie leading up to that moment. I am not engaging in a "this is better than this" debate. I'm honestly asking, if this was a movie that had nothing whatsoever to do with Star Wars, would you have been satisfied with the way that movie portrayed the characters, explained their motivations, transitioned the story, told the story and looked? I get that thefinal point is probably where it holds up the best, but from a storytelling perspective, was it a successful movie on its own, or did it rely so heavily on nostalgia and you knowing everything that comes after that it only seems complete because of the other films?

2 hours ago, zskid00 said:

To me the story was more compelling and original than TFA, despite it's familiarity with the OT which made absolute sense due to it's close proximity to ANH in the timeline.  For me TFA suffered from trying to replicate the OT to a fault.  The similarity in plot lines was too much for me to stomach considering it was 30 years later.  For me, Rogue One gets credit for being creative within the constraints of the canon and timeline already established, but TFA gets docked because they could have explored so much more and they didn't.  They went back to the formula that worked before and it was glaringly obvious.

@zskid00 Most of your argument is for what you disliked about TFA. You state that you felt Rogue One was compelling and original. If it's a standalone film, what's compelling? We don't get to know the characters. The flashbacks to Young Jyn are isolated, without a bridge. Cassian is a big nothing, Baze and Chirrut are mystics that tag along for no apparent reason, Bodhi's motivations are very surface., and don't explain anything he does in the last act There's no real character growth. The scene transitions are bad. Objectively speaking, it's not a great movie.

Every opinion seems to be, "It's great because it's better than . . ." I haven't seen any analysis of why Rogue One, taken on its own merits would be considered a good movie as a whole. It's always subjective.

Don't get me wrong, I have seen every Star Wars movie more times than I can count. I look for reasons to like and enjoy each movie. Attack of the Clones is a tough one to enjoy, but I don't honestly understand the hate for the prequels, the sequels and Return of the Jedi. I don't understand lifting Rogue One up as something better than the rest.

[Will 4]

I liked it for Krennic so sad he died and couldn't see his dream of running the death star

[fuzzy_bricks]

For me, there is less in Rogue One that drags it down.  The story and characters are week, but serve their purpose to get to the action and the acting is fine.  I won't say that it's great, but it didn't annoy me.  Jar Jar annoyed me.  Anakin and Padme annoyed me.  NOOOOOOOO annoyed me.  All those were negatives that hit immediately when you're watching the movie.  The lack of character development in Rogue One is something you realize at the end of the movie, but may not realize as you're watching it play out.

It depends on what you want out of it, if you want a character movie, you're SOL, but if you wanted some great Star Wars action, then you're in luck. 

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by fuzzy_bricks

[thoroakenfelder]

18 minutes ago, Will 4 said:

I liked it for Krennic so sad he died and couldn't see his dream of running the death star

I was watching one day and realized something about his death. When I first watched it, I wondered why the Death Star fired sort of across the complex, hitting in the ocean instead. It seemed more of a sure thing to just blast the building than let the shockwave take care of it. Watching it again later, I realized that they pinpointed the top of the tower (where Krennic was.) Instead of a virtual miss like I believed, they were so precise they took out the transmitter.

[Val-E]

I don´t think SW is a great example of a genre where character development is done to good effect, considering they started off at the end and then went backwards with the next 3 films.

God knows, they needed 5 movies to try to get to the bottom of who Vader was and many of the actors were so wooden that they made the droids look like Dustin Hoffman. Nothing wrong with that considering how the whole franchise started out as a humble, low budget project with moderate expectations.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by Val-E

[Pet-Brick-er]

expectations were moderate but ambitions were big. With a low budget they planned something big, bigger than 'em considering that you find OT movies in every best movies of all time list.

We see the same in Rogue One, a low solid group planning to do something big, bigger than 'em.

We already know the end of the movie, we see how, the way in which they reach the target. Sacrifice. Every character sacrifices himself and a lot of little sacrifices get a big back in return. One more meaning to the story. Add that they did not have to begin nothing, nor to go on nothing, that's easier than make a prequel or a sequel. They had to explain how something happened and they already had a language with which say that. We don't see a lightsaber but we feel that is the jedi world. So, so far there's a disney star wars movie I would see again at the cinema and there is a good element well added to the story by disney, in that case

[Jeff Mack]

Enjoyed the movie. Snokes ship was badass. Some very cool scenes.

[Ed Mack]

I loved the movie. Maybe my favorite. Action packed. Cool scenes. Funny. Awesome ships. Had low expectations, yet it entertained me the whole way. It felt very much like a STAR WARS movie. It paid homage to many of the earlier movies, but it felt right. I just didn't like Snokes animation or C-3POs voice.

[starwarsxpress]

My favorite has always been Episode V.  This movie was awesome.  I think the best ever yes seriously.

[LotsoTrainz]

This movie did a good job correcting on the flaws of TFA and not having many weaknesses.  Expanded well on most characters, gave us some new locations and ships, and didn't really drag anywhere despite it being longer than previous movies.

I do have some critiques, but won't expand on them to avoid spoilers.

Lot of potentially great LEGO sets too lol.  Better than TFA at least.