75159 - UCS: Death Star (2016)

[gregpj]

This one is for you LEGO, inspired by @BrickLegacy and brought to you by Brickpickers everywhere.

[KShine]

8 minutes ago, tjj1984 said:

 

Edited August 17, 2016 by KShine

[gbg108]

Is it possible that Disney were mad about the leaked castle pictures, so lego have put out fake information to different departments to narrow down where the leaks are coming from. The 75159 changes seem way to minimal for something that has alot of potential, the random cheese slope is just comical. 

I know, im living in a dream world but im hoping the original bigger and better info is still true.

I'm not really one for conspiracy theories, and personally, I don't believe LEGO would go to those extremes about some leaked photos of the Disney Castle on fan forums.

That said, could see how they might go to that extreme to find who is leaking info to cloners who were able to release a knockoff Disney castle even before LEGO. But I'm not sure how showing some people a slightly modified 10188 and calling it 75159 achieves that goal.

We'll just have to wait and see I guess.

[citymorgue]

As a collector, this idea of a barely made over 10188 is a bit of a bummer.  If it does indeed barely look anything different from 10188, I'll most likely pass on it.  It's the same in principle as the toy shop.  I bought the first one to complete the Winter Village line a couple of years back, and I refused to buy the new Toy Shop, because it's barely any different at all, short of a few cosmetic changes.

I still have not and don't ever plan on buying Assault on Hoth, only because it really is a travesty of a UCS set.  Overall this is the first year where I have not bought just about every exclusive Lego has released.  Which if that says anything, I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing for Lego.  It could be just a weird fluke year, or it could be the start of a more troubling trend.  I don't know, but we'll have to see how the next year or two plays out and go from there.

[LegoEdison]

13 hours ago, tjj1984 said:

Latest rumor from the EuroBricks thread is that the official announcement is scheduled for 9/1/2016.

I guess we can all sit tight for another two weeks.

I hope LTG can find the 10188 designer and he still remember what he did 10 years ago.  

[Pseudoty]

7 hours ago, The Lurker said:

Is it possible that Disney were mad about the leaked castle pictures, so lego have put out fake information to different departments to narrow down where the leaks are coming from. The 75159 changes seem way to minimal for something that has alot of potential, the random cheese slope is just comical. 

I know, im living in a dream world but im hoping the original bigger and better info is still true.

Possible sure, but what is more probable is we are being punked by EB.  

Edited August 17, 2016 by Pseudoty

[stephen_rockefeller]

7 hours ago, The Lurker said:

Is it possible that Disney were mad about the leaked castle pictures, so lego have put out fake information to different departments to narrow down where the leaks are coming from. 

No

[inversion]

Forum these days:

[Ed Mack]

44 minutes ago, tjj1984 said:

 

 

Don't take things out of context.  I can see why LEGO would tweak it and re-release it.  I don't agree with it.  They believe it will work again.  It's worked for years with the backing of resellers and the assumption of an eventual payoff.  With no payoff for resellers, who will invest or even buy the new version at a $500 clip?  Within two years, you will see how resellers have affected LEGO's profits or haven't.  If this set tanks, it will indicate to me that resellers have an effect on LEGO's bottom line.  If this set is around for another decade, then resellers will have had less effect on the primary market than I thought.

My main point is this is one set and people are putting too much emphasis on it.  There have been reissues before of major sets (Black Seas Barracuda, Fort Legoredo) which did not affect the market.  I think many of us are frustrated with this set because of the cost and the potential WASTED.  I really wish LEGO would have knocked it out of the park with this one so the 10188 had some room to grow, but from what I have seen and heard, it looks like a remake that not only boring, but lazy.  The STAR WARS theme is becoming a wasteland of average sets that are reissued annually.  What was once my favorite theme is now one of my least favorites.  

[Val-E]

Technic race truck was just one set, Burj Khalifa another, 75105 strike 3, WTS on for 4 then we got Hoth, another Beetle and Xmas train and now this. I probably missed out a few too.Guggenheim and AA are already in for 2017

The point is that these past two years, the trend has moved towards re releases with minimal differences or variations on the same theme. It´s not just SW, it´s across the range.

So now we have to deal with TLG retreads, Lepin, too many resellers per customers, less discounts than before, the weak pound helping UK sellers - it all adds up.

 

[tjj1984]

4 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:

With no payoff for resellers, who will invest or even buy the new version at a $500 clip?

If we're now at the point where only resellers are paying $500 for a set, was it true 8 years ago that only resellers were buying $400 sets?

[Mathew]

23 hours ago, asharerin said:

A 20% markup over 8 years is tiny. After real inflation it is much cheaper than 10188 was in 2008/2009.

Forget inflation.  I paid $1.88 for a gallon of gas yesterday.  I paid $3.88 a gallon two years ago.  The last Death Star contained 3,802 pieces.  $400 was a fair price back in 2008 after you take in account the number of minifigs.  In 2015 it was a good deal for such a large Star Wars set but not too far off base compared to other UCS sets.  If the new one comes in around the same piece count then really it's price should be about the same.  A $500 sticker price with no discounts will kill it.  I don't care how much you guys try to spin the numbers.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Mathew

[Ed Mack]

2 minutes ago, tjj1984 said:

If we're now at the point where only resellers are paying $500 for a set, was it true 8 years ago that only resellers were buying $400 sets?

Not 8 years ago.  Maybe 4-5 years ago to present.  The first few years of the 10188 was just about the time LEGO reselling was ramping up.  It was a popular set and deservedly so and everyone assumed it would take the traditional route and retire in 2-3 years.  It didn't.  Why?  Either because it was just so damn popular with regular fans it stuck around...OR...LEGO resellers propped up sales enough to make LEGO think it was uber popular.  This set was supposed to be a guaranteed winner when it retired and many of us stocked up...many times.    Best laid plans...

Now if what I have read, seen and heard is true, the 75159 will never sell as well as the 10188.  It looks to be a rehash of the 10188 at a higher price.  Sure, some new fans will buy it, but many long time LEGO fans with a 10188 will pass and resellers will definitely not invest $500 on a weak set with questionable future returns. 

[Phil B]

What if the cheese slope represents a major plot point in Rogue One? Could be the most expensivepopular cheese slope ever ......

Edited August 17, 2016 by Phil B

[Mathew]

Also, a lot of you guys probably don't remember that between 2008-2012 you could easily buy 10188 for between $325-375.  No work arounds or magic coupons.  That was a standard Amazon shipped price.    I think it even dropped to $300 on occasion.  You're not going to find those deals today on a $500 Death Star.  I'm not even sure why some of you are getting excited unless you missed the last one.  With so many resellers still sitting on the old one, the new one is poison.  

[KShine]

16 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:

Don't take things out of context.  I can see why LEGO would tweak it and re-release it.  I don't agree with it.  They believe it will work again.  It's worked for years with the backing of resellers and the assumption of an eventual payoff.  With no payoff for resellers, who will invest or even buy the new version at a $500 clip?  Within two years, you will see how resellers have affected LEGO's profits or haven't.  If this set tanks, it will indicate to me that resellers have an effect on LEGO's bottom line.  If this set is around for another decade, then resellers will have had less effect on the primary market than I thought.

My main point is this is one set and people are putting too much emphasis on it.  There have been reissues before of major sets (Black Seas Barracuda, Fort Legoredo) which did not affect the market.  I think many of us are frustrated with this set because of the cost and the potential WASTED.  I really wish LEGO would have knocked it out of the park with this one so the 10188 had some room to grow, but from what I have seen and heard, it looks like a remake that not only boring, but lazy.  The STAR WARS theme is becoming a wasteland of average sets that are reissued annually.  What was once my favorite theme is now one of my least favorites.  

2002 was an entirely different world - there is nothing much we should try to learn from those examples (plus, I am sure if there were any people stockpiling the original Black Seas Barracuda, or Fort Legoredo back then - they were affected).

There have been examples of a rehash trend by LEGO for years. It started out small, and seemed meaningless to most, but it wasn't.

 

 

[Fenix_2k1]

2 minutes ago, Phil B said:

What if the cheese slope represents a major plot point in Rogue One? Could be the most expensive cheese slope ever ......

I think the cheese slope is a metaphor for the future of Lego Set Design & Development

[KShine]

2 minutes ago, Phil B said:

What if the cheese slope represents a major plot point in Rogue One? Could be the most expensivepopular cheese slope ever ......

The Death Star Plans are hidden in the cheese!

 

[Rimmit]

15 minutes ago, Mathew said:

Also, a lot of you guys probably don't remember that between 2008-2012 you could easily buy 10188 for between $325-375.  No work arounds or magic coupons.  That was a standard Amazon shipped price.    I think it even dropped to $300 on occasion.  You're not going to find those deals today on a $500 Death Star.  I'm not even sure why some of you are getting excited unless you missed the last one.  With so many resellers still sitting on the old one, the new one is poison.  

I don't think anyone on this forum is excited by a 10188 remake by any stretch of the imagination.

While you are not likely to see 75159 hit prices around $300, which is a 40% discount, it is definitely within the realm of reason to see this set hit $400 or a 20% discount.  This is a HUGE set, and takes up a lot of warehouse space.  Amazon and Walmart will discount this sucker to make room if need be. It's about supply and demand.  If the demand isn't high enough, they will mark it down to sell.  Just look at the UCS TIE Fighter.  The first time the Tie Fighter was discounted to 159.99 everyone was jumping on it.  Now no one will even touch it at that price with a ten foot pole, and are waiting for the 139.99 and 129.99 deals before buying it. I wouldn't be surprised at EOL if it hit 119.99 and even 99.99 just to dump inventory to make room for other stuff.

This could be how 75159 goes.  Initially some buy in at $500.  Sales eventually come to a slow crawl. Discounted down to $450, sales spike, and then they halt again.  This will happen until they hit a price point where there is a steady outflow of inventory, with occasional extreme sales potentially into the $300's just to move inventory faster.  This was truly the worst case scenario, not just for 10188 resellers, but for resellers of the high end exclusives in general.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Rimmit

[biking_tiger]

32 minutes ago, Val-E said:

Technic race truck was just one set, Burj Khalifa another, 75105 strike 3, WTS on for 4 then we got Hoth, another Beetle and Xmas train and now this. I probably missed out a few too.Guggenheim and AA are already in for 2017

The point is that these past two years, the trend has moved towards re releases with minimal differences or variations on the same theme. It´s not just SW, it´s across the range.

So now we have to deal with TLG retreads, Lepin, too many resellers per customers, less discounts than before, the weak pound helping UK sellers - it all adds up.

 

The Beetle was ripe for remake and the new one is beautiful. The Xmas train is different. WTS, on the other hand, was laaaaazy. 

[c_rpg]

I think some people here are underestimating the impact the new movie will have. Don't forget that the Death Star is a major plot point in Rogue One.

Pretty much everyone is saying that the AT-AT, Star Destroyer, X-Wing and Y-Wing prices will go up, but somehow the general consensus is that the Death Star will be a poor seller. And besides, we haven't even seen the set.

[zskid00]

9 minutes ago, Fenix_2k1 said:

I think the cheese slope is a metaphor for the future of Lego Set Design & Development

Yes, a slippery cheese slope:

 

[legoverzamelen]

The STAR WARS theme is becoming a wasteland of average sets that are reissued annually.  What was once my favorite theme is now one of my least favorites.  

Interesting opinion that I hear more often these days. As an Original Trilogy Star Wars fan I am wondering, just out of curiosity and probably partially off-topic:

1. Since the original Star Wars material is developed by Lucasfilm/Disney, I assume Lego has limited creative freedom in the sets they create. What are your typical examples (besides the 75159) set of recent below-average sets that made you defer from this theme? And I'm not talking about the
2. When Star Wars WAS your favorite theme, what kind of sets were your favourites? Interesting to see how they compare to current sets

3. What are your favorite Lego themes now in comparison to Star Wars?


If these questions have been answered or belong in another thread please excuse me and let me know where I can read them, thank you.

[Ed Mack]

15 minutes ago, KShine said:

2002 was an entirely different world - there is nothing much we should try to learn from those examples (plus, I am sure if there were any people stockpiling the original Black Seas Barracuda, or Fort Legoredo back then - they were affected).

There have been examples of a rehash trend by LEGO for years. It started out small, and seemed meaningless to most, but it wasn't.

 

 

Did reissues work back then?

[asharerin]

10188 flew off the shelves at $400. It maintained an insanely good sales rank at $600+. All of my online sales went to end users, not resellers. I don't see how 75159 which is the same set with much needed upgrades to the minifigs does not continue to sell like hotcakes at $500 to end users. I'd much rather stockpile 75159 than than Cindys castle for a quick flip this christmas. If you have $400 to blow on a toy for yourself or as a gift, is another $100 going to enter the equation? Alot of people are going to be thinking they just got a $100 discount on a $600 10188. It hurts the reseller wallet and maybe a bit of resller pride. The direction this company is taking is very clear. Time to quit, or adapt and continue ringing that cash register. There will even be opportunity to buy 10188 at bargain prices for a nice 2-3 year hold and double up. I think each iteration of the Death Star will become quite collectible much further down the line.

[Ed Mack]

3 minutes ago, legoverzamelen said:

 

Interesting opinion that I hear more often these days. As an Original Trilogy Star Wars fan I am wondering, just out of curiosity and probably partially off-topic:

1. Since the original Star Wars material is developed by Lucasfilm/Disney, I assume Lego has limited creative freedom in the sets they create. What are your typical examples (besides the 75159) set of recent below-average sets that made you defer from this theme? And I'm not talking about the
2. When Star Wars WAS your favorite theme, what kind of sets were your favourites? Interesting to see how they compare to current sets

3. What are your favorite Lego themes now in comparison to Star Wars ?


If these questions have been answered or belong in another thread please excuse me and let me know where I can read them, thank you.

 

1. I like the Buildable Figures, UCS TIE and Slave I.  Everything else is average stuff.  

2. Everything...I had them all.  Especially the UCS.

3. Technic, Architecture, large Creator, Bionicle, Ideas.