75159 - UCS: Death Star (2016)

[gregpj]

This one is for you LEGO, inspired by @BrickLegacy and brought to you by Brickpickers everywhere.

[Darth_Raichu]

50 minutes ago, jstodda said:

I've enjoyed going back on forums before the remake of the remake of older sets to see what people say (Example Sandcrawler and Slave 1 remake). I see all the folks crying about how its going to destroy profit and trend. I personally encourage remakes. They don't always get it right but then there is brilliance (Slave 1) that has the appearance of its former self in such a better way. How will we ever get a "better" something without a remake. DS is 8 years old, you would think an update of ANY kind is past due and it will ALWAYS be around.

As AFOL and investors we are wanting shiny and new, and sometimes that's a good thing, but most often than not (especially with Star Wars ) new content is hard to come by and doesn't have the iconic pull it once did. Remakes are the way to make "old" content fun and attractive to the "new" crowd who is younger...

Hell if you are really a fan of lego whether old or young, we should be excited for playsets. Boring YES. Reduce the luster of our current fleet YES. But it puts LEGO and STAR WARS in the hands of younger fans who will grow up and like us, Complain that there is no 10,000 piece Falcon for $499 available this year......

Sure, lets remake Sandcrawler, Slave I, and DS every 3 years in that order.  As long as the sets "improve" after each iteration, the AFOLs will appreciate LEGO even more and the world will be a better place

[weitzel78]

When you look at TLG entire product line only a small fraction each year is really worth buying for a personal collection or investing in at or near RRP. I expect there to be rehashes, repetitive battle packs, and lines that I just have no interest in (Chima, Ninjago, SW prequel sets, etc). The disappointment arises from the fact that the Death Star is the flagship of their premier product line. Missed opportunity.

At $500 a pop and decent sales rank this thing must produce a huge amount of revenue for TLG. If the previous version sold well, it's easy to see why they would be risk adverse by not deviating from the prior design.

I only have one 10188, which I bought at retirement for around $380. I really did not see the investment potential, because I assumed they would release a much better version coming soon, but figured that the downside was minimal because of the price hike of the new set. Owning only one is nice because you can just open and build it if the sale becomes unpalatable. Though I still think a $500 sale is possible for the 10188.

Edited August 16, 2016 by weitzel78

[Pet-Brick-er]

10188 had not Disney brand, a re-release will have it. That will be the trend in my opinion, Disney asked Lego to re-release sets that have been good sellers in past years, so in future they also will get money from them. It's just a Disney business

[The Lurker]

I know this is the negativity 75159 thread but i thought i post here anyway  :-D

Im looking forward to seeing this bad boy, if its better i shall pain stakingly pack my 10188 up and sell it, possibly at a slight loss and buy the new one. If its similar i shall just keep 10188 and continue filling it full of minifigures. :-)

[Val-E]

[fantomas007]

What i really dont understand is that we are just a month before the release of the set and we havent seen the leaked pictures yet... If they need to have the sets ready on shelves in 30 days, they must be already made, which means hundreds of people participated on designing the box, collecting, distributing, etc. Plus, this is the most expected set of this year... And nobody has made a picture...

Edited August 16, 2016 by mesje

[Val-E]

2 minutes ago, mesje said:

What i really dont understand is that we are just a month before the release of the set and we havent seen the leaked pictures yet... If they need to have the sets ready on shelves in 30 days, they must be already made, which means hundreds of people participated on designing the box, collecting, distributing, etc. Plus, this is the most expected set of this year... And nobody has made a picture...

Maybe TLG has Lepinitis.

[Will 4]

I wonder how much of this forum could be moved to the bubble thread I reckon 60%-80% of it

Edited August 16, 2016 by Will 4

[redcell]

If this really is basically a remake of 10188 at $100 more, it is an odd play because TLG will now be competing directly with resellers dumping their 10188s. If a reseller decided to dump at cost, they'd be able to undercut TLG by $100. Strange play. I still think it is going to be different in some material way.

[fantomas007]

Based on the actual informations + logic (10188 was good seller, just with old figs + TLG is lazy for new ideas + more playset oriented), I lost all hope that we can have a completelly different, serious, AFOL oriented DS, majestic for displaying in AFOL room (and not in children room like a "doll house" 10188) and new DS will be on 99% a remake of 10188. For me is the only question, whether it will be at least covered by opening plates, allowed to display it in original form (low chance, but at least 1 half should be covered)...

[mattyman]

New DS maybe?

Edited August 16, 2016 by mattyman

[scuttfarkas]

1 hour ago, redcell said:

If this really is basically a remake of 10188 at $100 more, it is an odd play because TLG will now be competing directly with resellers dumping their 10188s. If a reseller decided to dump at cost, they'd be able to undercut TLG by $100. Strange play. I still think it is going to be different in some material way.

TLG will also offer you VIP points and a free set though.  While that won't cover the cost of the 100.00 difference, it will make it more palatable to a consumer. Add in the idea of the instant gratification of picking the set off the shelf at The Lego Store, the uncertainity of buying from a reseller (be it on E-bay or the WALMART parking lot) and that there's still a large consumer base in this country that still doesn't shop via E-bay/Craiglist.......and LEGO will be fine. 

[Ed Mack]

It's funny how the 10188 and 75159 get into mind of people and causes them to react so emotionally. The 10188 has wreaked havoc for years and people still haven't learned anything. It's the end and beginning of nothing. It's one set. A popular set. It made LEGO lots of money and will do so again. Why mess with success?

We all have to consider the fact that LEGO rehashes the STAR WARS theme constantly because there are new fans annually. LEGO will not stop producing X-Wings or TIE Fighters (There's over 20 versions of each). There will be more Falcons and Imperial Star Destroyers and whatever in the future. I was hopping this would be a stellar set and we will see, but I would understand why LEGO didn't change much if it comes out in a similar design.

The thing that bothers me is the price. $500 for a tweaked 10188 seems high and a bit 'cocky' to me. Being the highest price set ever should mean it the best ever in my opinion. If that kind of pricing continues, look at the next UCS Falcon to be priced at $600. Now that's something people should be upset about.

[Ciglione]

5 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:

It's funny how the 10188 and 75159 get into mind of people and causes them to react so emotionally. The 10188 has wreaked havoc for years and people still haven't learned anything. It's the end and beginning of nothing. It's one set. A popular set. It made LEGO lots of money and will do so again. Why mess with success?

We all have to consider the fact that LEGO rehashes the STAR WARS theme constantly because there are new fans annually. LEGO will not stop producing X-Wings or TIE Fighters (There's over 20 versions of each). There will be more Falcons and Imperial Star Destroyers and whatever in the future. I was hopping this would be a stellar set and we will see, but I would understand why LEGO didn't change much if it comes out in a similar design.

The thing that bothers me is the price. $500 for a tweaked 10188 seems high and a bit 'cocky' to me. Being the highest price set ever should mean it the best ever in my opinion. If that kind of pricing continues, look at the next UCS Falcon to be priced at $600. Now that's something people should be upset about.

I understand you want to calm down the community here.

But previous rehashed sets came out several years later. Not after less than a year. So people had time to unload their stash. There are still many 10188's out there to be sold. So that is alot of lost money. At the pricepoint the 10188 had, it is very difficult to earn back the investment by selling other sets. So it will hurt the investing community. No matter what you say. People will be asking themselves what will be next to be rehashed. The 10221 SSD?

I do not understand why Lego made such a fuss about the new DS than. Why put up the show? If it is just a refresh? With maybe some minor improvements?

Yes, maybe Lego is winning some new fans. But they are losing some old fans too. And investors with big pockets. Including myself. 

 

[fantomas007]

Unfortunately, the TLG has an uncompromising logic - 10188 was good seller, why to wait many years for new DS, lets remake it immediately and start making profit now. Of course, a remake of 10188 will attack hardly the investors community - but the TLG doesnt matter on this (on the contrary, TLG will happy to damage them)... The only thing what TLG needs to consider is an anger of SW fans, who have already bought 10188 2-3 years ago, and now will see a remake - with better figs and some other improvements. I can imagine, that a strong SW fan can be very disappointed to see better version of his favourite set. But since 10188 is a playset, it is more for children than for AFOL collector - and children dont matter whether there is a new version (as they dont solve that there is a new police station every year). Thats also an answer to question, whether same short remake disaster can affect other UCS sets - I think no. There is no reason to remake SSD 2-3-4 years after EOL - since this set was primary for AFOL collectors - and they would rage if they see new, improved SSD few years after they bought the first version... So unfortunately, 10188 is ideal candidate for short remake - popular playset for children, money maker and key building for SW world - something like police station, which MUST be on shelves every year...

[JM123]

Lego is adapting the Lepin policy: Copy an already existing set and then quickly to the market to make some $$

Very disappointed about this news, really thought Lego would make a great UCS set for AFOLS again like the 10221.

[Ed Mack]

39 minutes ago, Ciglione said:

I understand you want to calm down the community here.

But previous rehashed sets came out several years later. Not after less than a year. So people had time to unload their stash. There are still many 10188's out there to be sold. So that is alot of lost money. At the pricepoint the 10188 had, it is very difficult to earn back the investment by selling other sets. So it will hurt the investing community. No matter what you say. People will be asking themselves what will be next to be rehashed. The 10221 SSD?

I do not understand why Lego made such a fuss about the new DS than. Why put up the show? If it is just a refresh? With maybe some minor improvements?

Yes, maybe Lego is winning some new fans. But they are losing some old fans too. And investors with big pockets. Including myself. 

 

It's not about calming down the community...It's about expectations. This ONE set in particular is causing too much angst around here and the wounds are self inflicted.  Many of us made the wrong decision on this set if rumors are true.  Suck it up and move on.  LEGO obviously thinks this set still has some legs in its current form, thus the new tweaked version rumors.  I'm actually happy in a way...I won't have to invest too much money into the new version.  

[tractorboy]

41 minutes ago, Ciglione said:

I understand you want to calm down the community here.

But previous rehashed sets came out several years later. Not after less than a year. So people had time to unload their stash. There are still many 10188's out there to be sold. So that is alot of lost money. At the pricepoint the 10188 had, it is very difficult to earn back the investment by selling other sets. So it will hurt the investing community. No matter what you say. People will be asking themselves what will be next to be rehashed. The 10221 SSD?

I do not understand why Lego made such a fuss about the new DS than. Why put up the show? If it is just a refresh? With maybe some minor improvements?

Yes, maybe Lego is winning some new fans. But they are losing some old fans too. And investors with big pockets. Including myself. 

 

It's been around for over 8 years though. It was due a rehash. The 8 year lifespan meant this set was always a gamble. No other big set had been around that long. I've only got four, but see no reason why I can't unload at a reasonable profit with a €350 buy in. I might hold on to one or two for another couple of years, no biggie. I don't think it has any relevance for other investments either. Frankly, if it even scares off some new investors, then great.

[inversion]

27 minutes ago, JM123 said:

Lego is adapting the Lepin policy: Copy an already existing set and then quickly to the market to make some $$

Very disappointed about this news, really thought Lego would make a great UCS set for AFOLS again like the 10221.

Just want to remind you that most AFOL UCS sets historically sell badly while still in production. The colorful and playable Slave I as an exception, but basically all sets in that range sold badly. 10144, the AFOL DS, was a bust. Even the 10179 was a bad seller. Its price is more reflective of its limited supply rather than its overwhelming popularity. If it got a rehash, it would be one of the most embarrassing episodes in LEGO sales. If you still doubt me, look at the TIE fighter sales, which is not even a remake... Killing an outstanding seller and money maker to come up with a mediocre product (in terms of sales) would be an asinine move. 

In this light this 'copy and rehash' discussion is pointless. The 10188 was outdated, seriously needed an update and probably was not including the higher Disney tax in its price. If LEGO wants to keep it in production, this is the most logical move. I am baffled why anybody is surprised. 

Also, at least $50 from that price increase is going straight to Disney. Don't have any illusions about the price hike. Just bumping up an outdated set by $100 would hurt LEGO's image, the update was needed even if it only happened because of Disney wanting more money.

Edited August 16, 2016 by inversion

[Voltron]

What was most people buy in for this set, 10-20% off?

Will most people be breaking even after fees?

 

[Alpinemaps]

Not sure if I missed it, but here's both 30 and 29. 

And we have a special guest for 29, based on a little girl's request upthread. 

[Ed Mack]

6 minutes ago, Mhd747 said:

What was most people buy in for this set, 10-20% off?

Will most people be breaking even after fees?

 

Most of mine were at $300.00.

.

[Fenix_2k1]

I only had one 10188 which was for building.  My disappointment about these rumours is not anything to do with investment, just being a collector who was hoping for a fresh take on the most popular big SW set that I couldn't wait to get my hands on.  I've really no need to own this new one if what's being said is right and I'm sure a lot of other 10188 owners who collect are going to feel the same. When it comes to high end sets like this, ignoring the collectors with deep pockets seems like a dumb move. Thats 2 SW Collector set disappointments in a year.  And £6-700 of my money that lego won't be getting. 

[inversion]

2 minutes ago, Fenix_2k1 said:

I only had one 10188 which was for building.  My disappointment about these rumours is not anything to do with investment, just being a collector who was hoping for a fresh take on the most popular big SW set that I couldn't wait to get my hands on.  I've really no need to own this new one if what's being said is right and I'm sure a lot of other 10188 owners who collect are going to feel the same. When it comes to high end sets like this, ignoring the collectors with deep pockets seems like a dumb move. Thats 2 SW Collector set disappointments in a year.  And £6-700 of my money that lego won't be getting. 

If collectors mattered that much in these sets' sales, then LEGO would follow a different product strategy. I believe they have the numbers they are backing up these decisions with. 

[fuzzy_bricks]

3 minutes ago, inversion said:

If collectors mattered that much in these sets' sales, then LEGO would follow a different product strategy. I believe they have the numbers they are backing up these decisions with. 

I agree.  This blog came out around the last Toy Shop release, but if you haven't read it, it makes some good points.

http://www.fbtb.net/2015/09/13/lego-doesnt-care-about-your-collection/